Brian Grey Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Noticed at locomotion Shildon that the nrm are collecting names for a proposed run of 500 prototype deltic expected spring 2013. The run will depend on sufficient interest. Contact the nrm at York or Shildon to register your interest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Another one!? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Another one!? Well, eBay has to be fed somehow. They'll only stop doing them just before I finally finish my hybrid...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted September 12, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 12, 2012 The most unlimited 'limited edition' ever produced. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Supply and demand at work. Bemused at the negativity for the NRM actively doing another run of these. They should be applauded for listening to demand for what is a quality product through and through. Limited or not, if I didn't already have one, I'd get one. Best diesel model on the market at present IMO, possibly the Hornby 60 close behind. Why shouldn't more people be able to buy such an exquisite model anyway, if the demand is there? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 The most unlimited 'limited edition' ever produced. It never was limit in respect of the total to be made. There were just limited runs in various packages and finishes. If they are hesitant re another run I can only think that the last run sold more slowly than did previous batches. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 The thing is, when the first one was announced, even though I was somewhat skint at the time, I quickly placed my order because I didn't want to miss out. So beans on toast for a month it was..... At the time, if I had of know that in one form or another the model would continue to be available for at least the next few years then I would certainly have waited till my bank account was a bit more prosperous before commiting myself to buy one. Something else that irritates me is that as soon as the first run came out I saw a couple of these go on eBay for something like £500. I must admit, when they were going for that sort of money I was tempted to let mine go, but decided not to because I was lead to believe that the opportunity to purchase a brand new mint one would never present itself again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed-farms Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 If I recall there was some talk at the time of one of the earlier batches that said they had to commit to so many units to justify the tooling costs, think it was 5,000 units. Clearly what they are doing is drip-feeding the market, they could easily have tried to get all they wanted at once but then supply would outstrip demand and their selling rate would drop, thus increasing NRM cost and reducing profits - probably harming production of future models (Truro, Compound and D11 and whatever else comes in the future). Clearly there is still a demand for this model which results in more money to care for our national collection and I say good on them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 ... as soon as the first run came out I saw a couple of these go on eBay for something like £500..... Why do you think people keep buying them? Click here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
definate maybe Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 SHOCK HORROR - somebody re-releases something due to public demand. Cant see the problem personally. I think the original release was worded as an exclusive NRM model and a special edition but I dont think it was ever stated that it would be limited to a total of xxxx models.If it was then the NRM should be shot for limiting their revenue stream!! Regardless I thought the idea of our hobby was mainly to enjoy said models rather than as a way to cash in on them and finally lets not forget what the money raised from said sales go towards. If your daft enough to pay 3 times the price on ebay or similar then its down to you. You can obviously afford it (and if not your even dafter than I thought) and were prepared to pay it. The ebay prices are only down to 1 thing - what people are prepared to pay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Part of the joke was that they were still fetching ridiculous prices on ebay even after the second batch had been advertised by the NRM. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
petee19 Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I urge anyone who has not already bought the Deltic from the previous releases to get one on order,it really is a superb model. Whenever any of my family or friends who are not railway modellers see my layout the Deltic always seems to be their favourite loco although when the Blue Pullman arrives I feel this may take the Deltics place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I urge anyone who has not already bought the Deltic from the previous releases to get one on order,it really is a superb model. Too late, already building my hybrid one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I have one of the first batch and feel somewhat mislead/cheated now more have been produced. The UK law is not very clear in this area from what I can see after having a quick search on the internet. Are there any RMweb members in the legal profession that can clarify the legal position on this issue? XF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldgunner Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 You want legal advice regarding another production run of a popular model? Anything advertised as limited edition rarely is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I thought the idea of our hobby was mainly to enjoy said models rather than as a way to cash in on them Absolutly! I couldn't agree more. That certainly is the primary objective. But, if somebody could afford it (which doesn't apply to me) would it be such an evil thing to invest in models? (I know there are better ways to invest ones money, but let's just say for arguments sake) Or, not that I would know, but in classic car circles are the guys who stockpile classics frowned upon? Or in the horsey world, where the jockeys rarely own their own horses, are the actual owners of the horses seen as bad sportsmen? In my humble oppinion, in the end everybody is free to spend their money how they see fit. But going back to my original comment which I made earlier about the thought of selling my platinum edition a few years ago. It's a bit like buying a house, most of us buy houses to live in. But when all the other houses along the street are being sold at say 3 or 4 times what we paid for ours, would you not say it wouldn't be natural to give a thought to selling up? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I have one of the first batch and feel somewhat mislead/cheated now more have been produced. The UK law is not very clear in this area from what I can see after having a quick search on the internet. Are there any RMweb members in the legal profession that can clarify the legal position on this issue? XF See post 6. But don't take my word for it. Give the man at the NRM a call and he might feel like explaining the situation to you. There was never any attempt to mislead/cheat. I feel that as a responsible forum we need to stop these rumours and insinuations that the NRM behaved in any sort of underhand manner. I was in discussion with the NRM shortly after I ordered my first edition model about various plans for future issues. Weathered version, packed with a print, pin badge etc etc. I gave away the "goodies" to some body on here. That's probably greatly devalued mine for the collectors market. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I have one of the first batch and feel somewhat mislead/cheated now more have been produced. The UK law is not very clear in this area from what I can see after having a quick search on the internet. Are there any RMweb members in the legal profession that can clarify the legal position on this issue? XF I can't tell if you're being serious, but...really? I mean, it was never billed as a single edition, or limited. Exclusive, yes, to the NRM shop. They have since done a second batch of weathered and unweathered varieties and it looks likely a third may come. They haven't misled anyone at any time, so I am finding your response rather bizarre XF. Sorry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 It never was limit in respect of the total to be made. There were just limited runs in various packages and finishes. If they are hesitant re another run I can only think that the last run sold more slowly than did previous batches. Bernard This is absolutely correct Bernard. To reinforce this there's an explanation from Bachmann. The NRM models have always been described as “EXCLUSIVE EDITIONS” – in other words the locos that are in the NRM collection are produced ‘exclusively’ by Bachmann for the NRM. The wording was carefully chosen and agreed to specifically avoid any confusion or controversy in future years! The only “LIMITED EDITION” models have been the 500 produced with plinths etc described as “PLATINUM EDITIONS” and these have a plinth with NRM logo on which to display it when not running and a limited edition certificates numbered 1-500 etc. These are only available until stock is exhausted through the NRM. Bachmann can produce other versions / members of the class of locomotive in time but in the case of the Prototype Deltic there are no other versions to produce (as the model was a one off prototype). Hence the release of other GWR City Class models recently from a class of 19 other locomotives to choose from in addition to ‘City of Truro’, the latter of course being exclusive to the NRM and without doubt the most famous! ‘City of Truro’ was released in December 2009 where as ‘City of Bath’ and ‘City of London’ are 2012 catalogue releases. The catalogue version (LMS version) and the Preserved NRM locomotive No. 1000 incorporate a number of tooling differences (this locomotive was retrospectively modified to return to as near as possible to Midland Railway condition at Derby Works in 1959). There is a difference between the terms “LIMITED EDITION” and “EXCLUSIVE EDITION”. Limited editions are just that and are produced as a one off run in a particular livery or name/number combination. With an “EXCLUSIVE EDITION” there is no limit on the amount of models produced or on the number of production runs undertaken over the life of the tooling. Not surprisingly there will be modellers or collectors who are now in a position to obtain an “Exclusive Edition” now or in the future who were not in a position to do so when they were released hence the interest in a further run of the DP1 Prototype Deltic. “EXCLUSIVE EDITION” or “PLATINUM EDITION” models can only be obtained through the NRM shops or their on-line store. I trust that this clarifies the position. Dennis Lovett Public Relations Manager Bachmann Europe plc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted September 14, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 14, 2012 This bone of contention will only be resolved if we all shied away from over-inflated resale values demanded on e-bay. Human nature being what it is,however.............Matters do seem to be becoming a trifle overheated if we are contemplating joining an already overcrowded litigious society. I realise many lawyers are desperate for work,so,who knows,it could come to Bloggs v Bachmann( in re Deltic NRM). As they say ( only joking ,of course ) See you in court. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I have one of the first batch and feel somewhat mislead/cheated now more have been produced. The UK law is not very clear in this area from what I can see after having a quick search on the internet. Are there any RMweb members in the legal profession that can clarify the legal position on this issue? You'd probably be in a similar position to those who bought what turned out to be the first run of Renault Clio Williams cars in about 1993, under the impression that it would be the only run. Subsequently, they were somewhat put out when Renault made another batch, marked as "Renault Clio Williams 2"......and then another one marked "Renault Clio Williams 3". If litigation had been considered by buyers of the first run, it certainly didn't get anywhere..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
definate maybe Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Absolutly! I couldn't agree more. That certainly is the primary objective. But, if somebody could afford it (which doesn't apply to me) would it be such an evil thing to invest in models? (I know there are better ways to invest ones money, but let's just say for arguments sake) Or, not that I would know, but in classic car circles are the guys who stockpile classics frowned upon? Or in the horsey world, where the jockeys rarely own their own horses, are the actual owners of the horses seen as bad sportsmen? In my humble oppinion, in the end everybody is free to spend their money how they see fit. But going back to my original comment which I made earlier about the thought of selling my platinum edition a few years ago. It's a bit like buying a house, most of us buy houses to live in. But when all the other houses along the street are being sold at say 3 or 4 times what we paid for ours, would you not say it wouldn't be natural to give a thought to selling up? There is nothing wrong with it (although it does annoy me, it is the way of the world) but that wasnt really the point I was trying to make. My argument, which I could probably have put across better is more the fact that I cant see any need for the shock/ annoyance that a popular model was being re-released . As detailed by Andy above it was never a limited edition in the way that some seemed to think it was. I also cant believe that anybody would think that the NRM/ Bachmann between them would go to all the effort of the new tooling and the costs behind it and then limit it to a very limited 1 off run. It would have been commercial suicide. If you buy something as an investment, you have to realise there is always a risk and to me that is why investments are also gambles. House prices fluctuate, artwork goes through stages of fashion which reflect the price etc etc. If you wanted it because its a model you wish to love, use and enjoy then its not an issue that the wider world can also have the opportunity to buy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 It would have been commercial suicide. Absolutely so; if the tooling costs plus production and distribution costs had been solely realised, in addition to manufacturers and retailers margins, on one single run there'd have been complaints about the first mainsteeam RTR loco over £500. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
22xx Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 If you buy something as an investment, you have to realise there is always a risk ... Very true. Given that what keeps the price up in this instance is the belief that the item is scarce, the idea that 'I should have sold mine when the price was high, but I didn't because I thought I wouldn't be able get another one' is an excellent example of judging in hindsight - because the reason why some people paid daft prices (i.e. perceived scarcity) was exactly the same as the reason for others not selling! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Have you sen what these are STILL fetching on fleecebay! Is there anywhere you can register your interest or do we just use the ordinary "contact us" part of the website? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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