Ray's 4mm Workbench, Metalsmiths Turntable (end of P.13)

[Horsetan]

Mike, I wouldn't even trust you making me a cup of tea without me watching what you were doing....

 

*makes mental note of this*

[PenrithBeacon]

I have noticed that a number of posts use the term 'SWMBO'. What does this mean and would I be correct if I assumed it to be a perjorative if not

misogynistic term?

 

Regards

[RedgateModels]

She Who Must Be Obeyed - first used in the TV series Rumpole of the Bailey

[Jol Wilkinson]

And if you are too mean to spend a lot of money on a resistance soldering unit:

 

http://www.girr.org/...s1/solderer.pdf

 

Which shows you how to build your own.

 

Regards

 

Richard

 

This "build your own, it's cheaper" option usually pops up. Dedicated RSUs use specially commissioned and industrial standard components, unlike the bits used in the do it yourself units, both for safety and relaibility.

 

For example, the footswith in the LRM RSU is supplied by RSSComponents, and costs around £17. You can find a cheaper one at Maplins but it's not mains rated or you can build your own with footswitch, case, cable, grommet, etc. Likewise the cases, transformers, probe handles, etc. are specially produced. The American Beauty range (even more expensive) also uses dedicated parts.

 

I have one of the prototype LRM units, made with a (no longer available) Maplin transformer kit, etc. What a job that was, winding 2.0mm dia enamelled copper wire for the outputs. I don't know anyone that succesfully produced their own without making/buying a suitably rated transformer. A 12v one from a battery charger isn't right for the job.

 

Jol

[southern42]

Toothbrush and scrub with CIF cleaner (or any other kitchen cream cleaner). Then scrub in water.

 

I used this for years before getting an ultrasonic cleaner.

 

- Nigel

 

Ooooh. We've got some of that in the cupboard.

Useless on soap scum but hopefully better for this job.

[tender]

 

 

Ooooh. We've got some of that in the cupboard.

 

We've also got a dishwasher!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Nigelcliffe]

Only concern I'd have with using the dishwasher is if a part is dislodged because it wasn't soldered down properly. This can sometimes happen with very small parts. The dishwasher will wash the part away in the drain, whereas a toothbrush in a small bowl will usually result in finding the bit again, when it can be cleaned up, and another go at soldering started.

 

 

For ultrasonic cleaners, water does for most jobs. If really stubborn something alkaline is required on soldering jobs.

You can also clean things inside another container in the ultrasonic, with a small loss of power through the walls of the container. So, I will clean the retaining compound from 2mm wheelsets in a plastic jar containing meths stood in a bath of water in the ultrasonic - far easier to handle meths (stinks, catches fire easily, etc) in a small bottle.. I've even cleaned small bicycle parts in a plastic container of solvent stood in the water bath of the cleaner.

 

 

 

{ about CIF } Ooooh. We've got some of that in the cupboard.

Useless on soap scum but hopefully better for this job.

 

Soap scum might be limescale, which needs something acidic to clear it. You might be better removing it with acid flux !

 

 

 

- Nigel

[Brassey]

I'll follow this thread with interest as I too bought a High Level chassis at the Manchester show. I note that the hornblock bearings seem to have already been fitted to this chassis whereas on other threads on this forum it advocates fitting these along with the axles and the wheels already quartered with a wheel press/quartering jig. Which is preferable? I can see positives and negatives with both methods.

 

Peter

[tender]

I'll follow this thread with interest as I too bought a High Level chassis at the Manchester show. I note that the hornblock bearings seem to have already been fitted to this chassis whereas on other threads on this forum it advocates fitting these along with the axles and the wheels already quartered with a wheel press/quartering jig. Which is preferable? I can see positives and negatives with both methods.

 

Peter

I'll give you my take on this, but being the novice I might be completely wrong.

I think the instructions are written with the assumption that individual axle jigs are used for assembling the hornblock assemblies into the chassis frame. Hence the instructions guide you to complete the main frame assembly before fitting the hornblock guides.

 

However if using a chassis jig (such as the Avonside Chassis Jig) you can assemble the hornblock assemblies into the side frames (with short pins) before assembling the frames proper as you use the jig (with long pins) to bring the two halves together. The distance between the pins is set with the coupling rods.

 

See http://www.avonsideworks.com/

 

I've not got as far as assembling the wheels, quartering and setting back to backs yet so i'm still a bit mystified on how this goes together. I have a G W Models quartering jig on order so hopefully all will become clear when that arrives.

 

Ray.

[buffalo]

When I built one a few years ago, I followed the instructions as Ray has done. In the course of building, painting, etc. I removed and replaced the wheels once too often and ended up with them slipping on the axles. Whilst I managed to fix that problem, and it could have been avoided by more careful planning, I think I would take a different approach if I were to build another. I prefer to have chassis where the wheelsets can be dropped out without disassembly. To achieve that with this kit, you would need to cut the springs off so that the bearings can drop out. The springs could, of course, be re-fitted screwed to small angle brackets, or just glued in place after final assembly.

 

Nick

[John_Hughes]

She Who Must Be Obeyed - first used in the TV series Rumpole of the Bailey

 

Actually first in Rider Haggard's historic / fantasy novel She, which the very literate Rumpole of course knew all about.

 

There are also occasional appearances of HWMBO here from time to time!

[R A Watson]

 

 

Actually first in Rider Haggard's historic / fantasy novel She, which the very literate Rumpole of course knew all about.

 

There are also occasional appearances of HWMBO here from time to time!

 

I rather like the U D A, the Ultimate Domestic Authority.

 

[tender]

OK, to move this away from discussing our other halves here's an update from this evenings effort.

 

 

This completes the main frame assembly, next is the inside motion. I'm not sure why I'm bothering with this as none of it can be seen unless you lift the loco from the track and turn it upside down and it's only static, but i guess the experience putting it together will do me some good.

 

Another question - should the slots in the frame where the tongues from the cross members can be seen be filled (with solder)?

 

Ray

 

PS, the dishwasher is a no go area.

[Will L]

When I built one a few years ago, I followed the instructions as Ray has done. In the course of building, painting, etc. I removed and replaced the wheels once too often and ended up with them slipping on the axles. Whilst I managed to fix that problem, and it could have been avoided by more careful planning, I think I would take a different approach if I were to build another. I prefer to have chassis where the wheelsets can be dropped out without disassembly. To achieve that with this kit, you would need to cut the springs off so that the bearings can drop out. The springs could, of course, be re-fitted screwed to small angle brackets, or just glued in place after final assembly.

 

I'd agree with Nick on this one. One of the great things about horn blocks is that they will allow you to assemble the wheels once and once only which has much to recommend it. An alternative to screwing or glueing the spring etches back on to the frames individually is to fabricate a "keeper plate" which fits under the chassis and stops the wheels falling out. Attach this with one screw in the middle or one at each end. Then the springs are soldered to the keeper plate. Unscrew the keeper plate and the wheels can be dropped out when you paint the chassis, and for maintenance at any point in future. I don't really like to mention this, but if you didn't use plunger pick-ups, the keeper plate also gives you some where to mount pick-ups.

 

Going back to the post soldering clean up, dishwasher powder is the stuff you need. This is more or less pure alkali degreaser so won't contaminate your model, though not always easy to come by in this day of dishwasher tablets. A few grains in the wash water, if using a tooth brush, or in the ultrasonic washer, will give you a good clean and neutralises any acid flux. One pack will last a whole model railway club a life time but the you could use the unneeded excess in the dishwasher. This is actually quite unpleasant stuff so be careful when handling it. There is a hazard, I once cleaned up a brass coach body with door handles filed from iron track pins. I didn't dry it off fully and left it a few weeks. When I got back to it, all the door handles had disappeared. To avoid such an event, the final wash should be in plain water, and the job needs to be completely dried off before being left. These days I leave mine somewhere warm to be sure.

 

Will

[Siberian Snooper]

I'd agree with Nick on this one. One of the great things about horn blocks is that they will allow you to assemble the wheels once and once only which has much to recommend it. An alternative to screwing or glueing the spring etches back on to the frames individually is to fabricate a "keeper plate" which fits under the chassis and stops the wheels falling out. Attach this with one screw in the middle or one at each end. Then the springs are soldered to the keeper plate. Unscrew the keeper plate and the wheels can be dropped out when you paint the chassis, and for maintenance at any point in future. I don't really like to mention this, but if you didn't use plunger pick-ups, the keeper plate also gives you some where to mount pick-ups.

 

Going back to the post soldering clean up, dishwasher powder is the stuff you need. This is more or less pure alkali degreaser so won't contaminate your model, though not always easy to come by in this day of dishwasher tablets. A few grains in the wash water, if using a tooth brush, or in the ultrasonic washer, will give you a good clean and neutralises any acid flux. One pack will last a whole model railway club a life time but the you could use the unneeded excess in the dishwasher. This is actually quite unpleasant stuff so be careful when handling it. There is a hazard, I once cleaned up a brass coach body with door handles filed from iron track pins. I didn't dry it off fully and left it a few weeks. When I got back to it, all the door handles had disappeared. To avoid such an event, the final wash should be in plain water, and the job needs to be completely dried off before being left. These days I leave mine somewhere warm to be sure.

 

Will

 

Hi Will

 

Without wishing to hijack this thread any chance of a few photo's, of keeper plates etc. I have the dean's goods chassis on the go and would like to use the keeper plate method to be able to remove the wheel sets for painting and maintenance.

 

Cheers SS

[tender]

Not much progress last couple of days due to family/exhibition visit.

However did manage to get one of the connecting rods assembled, found this very fiddly.

 

 

The photo shows one rod assembled the other ready for soldering on a 0.5mm wire.

The next stage is to solder the assembled connecting rod into the slidebar slot showin in the middle of the picture below.

 

 

What worries me is that as soon as I touch the assembly with the soldering iron the whole lot will fall apart.

I guess there's some trickery to doing this, would somebody like to enlighten me on how to go about this.

 

When that done there's another wire (the piston rods) to be soldered into the ends of the connecting rods as well.

 

Ray.

 

PS photos uploaded directly from iPad with ios6

[Nigelcliffe]

Two tricks for the "it all falls apart if I put a hot iron near it" problem, there will no doubt be other ideas.

 

a - use different temperature solders. Start with something which goes at around 200 degrees C (standard Tin/Lead 60:40 mix is 188C), the swap to something around 140 degrees C, etc.. Carrs (and no doubt others) sell solders with different temperature ranges. If you anticipate a temperature range need, you could start with 220-230 degree solder, then drop to 188, then to 140. A temperature controlled soldering iron helps, but isn't essential.

 

b - use a heat-sink on the items to stay soldered to conduct the heat away. Tissue or kitchen paper soaked in water is a good heatsink. Aluminium hair clips are also good, cheap and can be cut/filed to the shape required, and aluminium doesn't solder easily. Both together sometimes helps.

 

 

- Nigel

[tender]

Two tricks for the "it all falls apart if I put a hot iron near it" problem, there will no doubt be other ideas.

 

a - use different temperature solders. Start with something which goes at around 200 degrees C (standard Tin/Lead 60:40 mix is 188C), the swap to something around 140 degrees C, etc.. Carrs (and no doubt others) sell solders with different temperature ranges. If you anticipate a temperature range need, you could start with 220-230 degree solder, then drop to 188, then to 140. A temperature controlled soldering iron helps, but isn't essential.

 

b - use a heat-sink on the items to stay soldered to conduct the heat away. Tissue or kitchen paper soaked in water is a good heatsink. Aluminium hair clips are also good, cheap and can be cut/filed to the shape required, and aluminium doesn't solder easily. Both together sometimes helps.

 

 

- Nigel

Thanks Nigel, I knew I should have bought some of that low temp solder I was looking at the Warrington show yesterday. Will try and pickup some aluminium hair grips in town tomorrow and give them a try.

 

Ray.

[tender]

Fitted the connecting rods and the first piston rod. I think there might be a problem here (or maybe not).

 

 

With the piston rod fitted the travel of the hornblock is limited by the small circular boss on the inner side. I machined these off on the rear drive hornblocks as instructed by the manual (for the gearbox) but it said it wasn't necessary for the front driver.

I'm not sure if this is a problem as the axle would hit the piston rods if the hornblock was able to move much further so not sure whether to just press on assuming that the axle will never ride that high.

 

Ray.

 

Edit update.

I temporarily fitted the front axle pivot bar and axle and it looks at though its just about ok.

[Horsetan]

Two tricks for the "it all falls apart if I put a hot iron near it" problem, there will no doubt be other ideas.

 

a - use different temperature solders. Start with something which goes at around 200 degrees C (standard Tin/Lead 60:40 mix is 188C), the swap to something around 140 degrees C, etc.. Carrs (and no doubt others) sell solders with different temperature ranges. If you anticipate a temperature range need, you could start with 220-230 degree solder, then drop to 188, then to 140. A temperature controlled soldering iron helps, but isn't essential.

 

b - use a heat-sink on the items to stay soldered to conduct the heat away. Tissue or kitchen paper soaked in water is a good heatsink. Aluminium hair clips are also good, cheap and can be cut/filed to the shape required, and aluminium doesn't solder easily. Both together sometimes helps.

 

and

 

c - try a different-sized (smaller?) bit for the soldering iron.

[Brassey]

Hi Will

 

Without wishing to hijack this thread any chance of a few photo's, of keeper plates etc. I have the dean's goods chassis on the go and would like to use the keeper plate method to be able to remove the wheel sets for painting and maintenance.

 

Cheers SS

There's a good thread on the S4Soc site that builds a chassis using this method which I read. I think I found it here when I searched for wheel press. However, I remain to be convinced about keeper plates and it lost me at that point. I think in this instance it's better to stick with the instructions as has previously been stated. Once I have the wheels on I'll leave them on having previously painted the chassis. Peter

[Kempenfelt]

SS,

 

You may be interested in my High Level jinty chassis for which I've made a keeper plate to allow removal of the wheels and to aid/enable a fully adjustable and removeable pick up arrangement, please see the link below.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/28200-kempenfelts-p4-workbench/page__fromsearch__1

 

I can't take the credit for the method as this came from a good friend of mine who inturn I believe followed the lead of other influential modellers. I would also in no means suggest that my application of the practice is perfect as the added complexity of accomodating the compensating beam made the keeper plate brackets rather fragile, with 2 out of the 4 brackets having to be split and therefore relying on one solder joint as oppose to the preferable two. However I hope it explains the purpose of the keeper plate in pictures and for the record, the loco still isn't finished and painted! I may yet modify the chassis to CSB as appose to compensated to overcome the weaknesses in the brackets, this is being driven by a choice to replace the front hornblock with the HL ones due to slight binding as a result of a bit too much slop in one of the hornguides. Anyway, enough of the waffle and I hope it helps to answer your question.

 

Tender,

 

With regards to the soldering of the valve gear, I see you've already done this now but I don't think I really suffered too much about soldering one item and disturbing the next. I would however promote the use of plenty of flux and the use of Carrs solder cream. For the latter I use 179 and because it comes in a syringe you can you use it very sparingly, in fact i tend to put some on a scrap bit of paper and apply even more spaingly using a cocktail stick. It comes with a flux in the paste although I do tend to add additional flux just to aid the flow. Because of the small volumes of solder being used you can be in and out with iron very quickly before heating up too much of the chassis, just watch the for the solder flowing on the desired part. I understand the advantage of using different grade solders, but in reality have found little need to swap to this approach.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[MJI]

Well, I just pop the work in the dishwasher, though I know that that idea gets a few raised eyebrows on here! As long as I use the cheapest sort of tablet - without rise-aid or the other fancy stuff - it does the job just fine and seems to leave no residue at all.

 

I know people who put cylinder heads through a dish washer

[Wizard of the Moor]

I know people who put cylinder heads through a dish washer

 

I think that I had dinner in that restaurant last week!

[Siberian Snooper]

Hi Paul

 

 

 

You may be interested in my High Level jinty chassis for which I've made a keeper plate to allow removal of the wheels and to aid/enable a fully adjustable and removeable pick up arrangement, please see the link below.

 

http://www.rmweb.co....__fromsearch__1

 

I can't take the credit for the method as this came from a good friend of mine who inturn I believe followed the lead of other influential modellers. I would also in no means suggest that my application of the practice is perfect as the added complexity of accomodating the compensating beam made the keeper plate brackets rather fragile, with 2 out of the 4 brackets having to be split and therefore relying on one solder joint as oppose to the preferable two. However I hope it explains the purpose of the keeper plate in pictures and for the record, the loco still isn't finished and painted! I may yet modify the chassis to CSB as appose to compensated to overcome the weaknesses in the brackets, this is being driven by a choice to replace the front hornblock with the HL ones due to slight binding as a result of a bit too much slop in one of the hornguides. Anyway, enough of the waffle and I hope it helps to answer your question.

 

Many Thanks for the link, looks like the way forward to me. I will see how I get on once I've got the valve gear in, I have left off one side of the frames to give me a bit of access for fitting it, although the frame spacers were fitted with both frames set up on a Hobby Holidays jig and clamped together whilst soldering the first side and at the end of each session (to few) the other frame is replaced and clamped in situ, at least that way I can't lose it.

 

Cheers SS