Hattons Model Railways of Widnes (formerly Liverpool).

[Gwiwer]

 

Hattons delivery times have proven to be be quite random: despite always selecting Royal Mail Air it can be anywhere from one to five weeks.

 

 

Here we move into the realms of what is and what is not within Hattons control.  UK delivery tends to be very reliable even though it is outside their control so most people receive their goods promptly most of the time.

 

Hattons normally pick and pack your order within 24 hours.  It would then go into the next available mailing but once it enters the mail system it becomes subject to the vagaries of the mail.  For non-UK destinations that can mean it gets accidentally sorted into surface instead of air mail, it may wait on the ground until the container for your destination is full with other mail, it may be delayed awaiting customs or quarantine clearance and of course non-UK mail services are not always as efficient as the Royal Mail can be.

 

Living in Australia I am only too well aware of such things.  The "speed record" is currently held jointly by items from Kernow MRC and from Rails which both arrived on the third day after ordering.  The "snail mail" record is held by a package from Hattons which was sorted into surface mail and took five months to arrive.  The item had actually been replaced long before then by Hattons on the grounds of the original being lost in transit but because of the costs involved in returning things they invited me to keep the original at a nominal cost.  

 

Typically packages from Hattons arrive here in around 10 days though once they are in the local area they are again subject to the whim of the local parcel contractor (Australia Post don't deliver parcels themselves) who will only come out this way when his van is full.  So that could mean it sits in the sorting office for another week or is delivered on the same day it comes in.

[DropTheTap]

 

Hattons normally pick and pack your order within 24 hours.  It would then go into the next available mailing but once it enters the mail system it becomes subject to the vagaries of the mail.  For non-UK destinations that can mean it gets accidentally sorted into surface instead of air mail, it may wait on the ground until the container for your destination is full with other mail, it may be delayed awaiting customs or quarantine clearance and of course non-UK mail services are not always as efficient as the Royal Mail can be.

 

 

Yes, I'm always impressed at how quickly I receive an email telling me everything's been taken care of. I had also considered the vagaries of customs, other carriers, transfers etc.

 

Now admittedly I don't use them as much but Rails seem to be more consistent when it comes to transit times, although I'm sure that's a coincidence based on a less than ideal sampling size.

 

I may go for the tracked option in future but having to sign for a package or missing it and then driving to the nearest depot is not a convenient option for me, unfortunately. Plus this adds a significant cost to the item. It says something when I can buy something from Hattons, shipped and it still be much, much cheaper than buying the same item from ebay or a store in the country which I now live...!

[Philip Jackson]

Hattons delivery times have proven to be be quite random: despite always selecting Royal Mail Air it can be anywhere from one to five weeks. 

 

Living out here in the colonies I've had RM airsure take from 3 days to 6 weeks from the UK (not just hattons btw)

[jivebunny]

Which country are you in, DropTheTap? I'm in France and have everything sent via Royal Mail Airsure from various suppliers and without fail my parcels arrive four working days after they're shipped. I have yet to order anything from Hattons but if they're shipping things off in good time then the delay is very unlikely to have anything to do with them.

 

JB

[DropTheTap]

Which country are you in, DropTheTap? I'm in France and have everything sent via Royal Mail Airsure from various suppliers and without fail my parcels arrive four working days after they're shipped. I have yet to order anything from Hattons but if they're shipping things off in good time then the delay is very unlikely to have anything to do with them.

 

 

I'm in the USA. I'm not sure if the "Airsure" option is open to me here but I'll certainly look into it.

 

I'm certainly not trying to have a dig at Hattons with my posts (like I said, their prices are pretty well unmatched) but the one time I foresaw a problem, I wasn't entirely convinced by their response. We may all be forgiven a bad day I suppose. Lord knows I have enough of them for everybody!

[Ian Abel]

I'm in the US also, and my experience using Hattons (since 1985), is always good. I've ordered from a couple of other places in the UK, and have had the same sort of experience, but generally Hattons as they more often have what I want, and the prices "work" into the bargain, BONUS, their order process and information provided is second to none. I always use the simple Air Mail delivery except in the case of PECO track 25-pack shipments where they will only ship via DHL because of the package size.

 

A few experiences of note;

 

1) Around this Christmas I placed two separate orders on the same day at Hattons, both shipped same day with details emailed to me. One arrived in 5 days the other took nearly 10. Initial contact with "H" indicated I'd have to wait 30 days (Roayl Mail requirement for standard air mail) before they could file a claim. They stated that if it hadn't arrived by then they''d immediately re-ship and file at the same time - seemed fair to me as it was obviously a "mail" problem.

 

2) Order from Rails similar time, their web site carries NO details of shipping or any email contact advising what/when an order is being processed. Same Air Mail shipping, took 10+ days to get here. Because there is no indication as to when it shipped I have no idea if it was a slow shipping issue OR mail issue. Further, their international orders don't show the VAT deducted OR mail costs, they add it later and it's guesswork for you as to what the order costs until the actually debit your account. Prefer NOT to deal with them as a result.

 

3) If you order from Hattons and chose the DHL 2-day option it, in my experience, ALWAYS arrrives two business days later without fail. Whilst I generally do not pay the extra for that option, as noted above, PECO 25-pack flex track is only shipped that way. If you know you're going to order track add the other items you need in the same order. It quickly pays for itself as the shipping is often the same for the track AND a couple of additional items, even a loco or two! Best part is you then get your goodies in 2 days

[jsp3970]

I just received a Bachmann class 105 (31-535) and it took four weeks to get here! Yesterday I was just looking at what I would have to do to report this as non delivered as I have never had anything take this long. I am 100% sure this is not Hatton's fault, it probably got caught up in Canada Customs or in some Canada Post depot for a few weeks.

Edited April 17, 2014 by jsp3970

[Gwiwer]

The date Christine Hatton signed the customs declaration is a guide to when it was actually shipped.  While that's an electronic signature it can't be shipped any earlier and very likely won't be more than a business day later.  After that it's outside Hattons' control

[Vistisen]

I live in Denmark, and have nothing but good experiences with Hattons, One of the reasons I keep on using them is that I do not feel ripped off by the postage costs. I bought a couple of small items from another online site, a willis bridge kit and som replacment wheels total value £12. The postage on this other website to Denmark  £7.50, I've just checked Hattons here the postage price for the same to items would be £2.50 that a 300% difference!

[jsp3970]

I just checked the box and its dated March 19, so like I said, I know it isn't Hatton's fault.

[woodenhead]

Hattons now have Pre-owned as a seperate listing on their main page.

 

This is a good move making it possible for the first time to see all their secondhand stuff easily as you can filter it like new stuff.

[DropTheTap]

...One of the reasons I keep on using them is that I do not feel ripped off by the postage costs. I bought a couple of small items from another online site, a willis bridge kit and som replacment wheels total value £12. The postage on this other website to Denmark  £7.50, I've just checked Hattons here the postage price for the same to items would be £2.50 that a 300% difference!

 

I agree. I've been very close to ordering from other online outlets but postage is very expensive and I won't do it unless it's something Hattons or Rails don't have in stock. Hattons (and to a lesser extent, Rails) international postage rates are very reasonable indeed.

 

I always kick myself if I see a good deal at Hattons and procrastinate, only for it to sell out and have to stomach the postage charges elsewhere!

[DropTheTap]

I just received a Bachmann class 105 (31-535) and it took four weeks to get here!

 

My DMU (see above) finally arrived after about six weeks, a new record!! I do appreciate that this is outside the retailer's control but I often wonder why on earth there's such a disparity sometimes...

[darren01]

Hi 

just been looking at there site and looked at the pre-owned, bit strange that they are selling pre-owned  Maunsell Corridor Composite for more than they are selling them new, even selling an LY tank for more than a new one! ,what that all about?.

I would like to know how they come up with these price for there pre-owned that cost more than a new one!.

Edited April 18, 2014 by darren01

[Gwiwer]

Hattons offering "Like New" second hand items at more than the same item is still available for new has been flagged before.  They had a Kernow MRC limited edition Thumper offered at £10 more than Kernow have them listed (and still available) new.  Hattons sold it at the higher price but acknowledged in an email to me that it was perhaps "something to review".  They currently have another one offered at £10 less than Kernow are asking.

 

Splitting the second hand from the new listings saves possible confusion in particular when it comes to any need to refer to legal rights regarding sale of goods - these can differ between new and pre-owned items.

 

On the other hand it also gives a ready opportunity to see what is being disposed of.  Currently for example Mk2 air-cons from the Airfix and Mainline ranges are there a-plenty no doubt in anticipation of the new improved ones arriving soon.  There are also a fair number of CCT vans (another item soon to be offered again in new tooling) and Mk3 coaches with loco-hauled stock numbers as released by Hornby a few years back which were intended to also be run between the HST power cars.  You want a "fag packet" sleeping car?  Always a sought-after livery this one and at time of writing there's one listed at £42

 

As with the pricing of second hand items above the cost of new ones Hattons are in business to get what they can.  Buyer beware.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Gwiwer

[250BOB]

Hi 

just been looking at there site and looked at the pre-owned, bit strange that they are selling pre-owned  Maunsell Corridor Composite for more than they are selling them new, even selling an LY tank for more than a new one! ,what that all about?.

I would like to know how they come up with these price for there pre-owned that cost more than a new one!.

 

I agree.......Hattons should be aware that this practice could end up giving them a bad name. 

[Colin_McLeod]

Is it possible that Hattons' prices for pre owned items are inspired by what Rails of Sheffield get for such items on E bay?

 

Hattons currently have two Hornby Dublo emus for sale. One at £995 and one at £1,000.  Even on E bay these go for (only!) £400 - £600.

[Robin Brasher]

Perhaps Hattons are trying to recoup the money they lost when they were selling new Hornby Dublo emus, including sets with track, for £2 each in the late 1960s. That was about half the recommended retail price.

[Colin_McLeod]

Wish I had had a spare £2 in the late 1960s.  On second thoughts make that about £20 as they sold off all kinds of HD locos for around £1-10s-6d

[Stevelewis]

Many  years ago  I drove  past  a  cycle  shop in  Ashton under  Lyne, in those  days  many such  shops  also  sold  Model Railways,  the  timing  was after  the Hornby Closure  and as  such many shops  were  seling off thier  stocks!!

 

I noticed in the  window  a Hornby Dublo 2 car EMU  set  Priced   about  £5.00 so although £5.00 meant more then than it does now  I went  in and bought it  I allso got 3 additional  centre  cars!

 

It got  sold off  a few years later  I made a small profit,  but now wish I had  kept  it!!  I remember the EMU being a very  good  performer  despite  it only  having 1 powered  axle

it would pull a lot  more  than it  neded to.

 

I also note  Hattons  are  now  listing   3D printers!

[Ian Hargrave]

I agree.......Hattons should be aware that this practice could end up giving them a bad name.

 

I totally agree......but it's a trend that seems to be increasing and not just with Hattons.Because of the scarcity of new releases,second hand prices are rocketing with some models almost attaining the cult status of Rolex watches.Hattons have been in business long enough to know what the market will stand.Enthusiasts are prepared to stump up over the odds if it's something particularly desirable.

Remember Hattons ship overseas....usually less VAT.....and we have more than a few RMwebbers who buy from the USA,Australia and New Zealand as regular Hattons customers and ,like Rob McGavin ,are sometimes prepared to do just that.Their shipping service is a byword for integrity and reliability,apparently. Thus it may not be UK residents but expats that Hattons marketing is priced at.But I do agree that it appears illogical.

[oreamnos]

[edi]

Remember Hattons ship overseas....usually less VAT.....and we have more than a few RMwebbers who buy from the USA,Australia and New Zealand as regular Hattons customers and ,like Rob McGavin ,are sometimes prepared to do just that.Their shipping service is a byword for integrity and reliability,apparently. Thus it may not be UK residents but expats that Hattons marketing is priced at.But I do agree that it appears illogical.

 

Interesting hypothesis.  While I have noted the condition of some of the "like new" items is anything but, other pre-owned items are in excellent condition and I have bought some of them - three out of production Farish locos and two tank wagons.  One of the locos was offered at a hefty discount, the other two were offered at prices comparable to current eBay sales.  The tank wagons were discounted a pound each compared to when they were new.  All the items were in excellent shape when I received them.

 

And as an overseas custmer...I didn't pay VAT on any of it.  Which makes Hatton's "like new" items a real bargain for me when compared to eBay.  Not only does it mean the Hattons items are effectively discounted about 20% when compared to the same items offered on eBay, but Hatton's overseas p+p charges are also significantly lower than those charged by most eBay sellers.  That, plus the fact when I deal with Hattons, I know who I'm buying from which is not usually the case with an eBay seller.

 

I don't know who Hattons is targetting with its "like new" service, but as far I am concerned, as an oversears customer I really like it.

 

Matt

Edited April 21, 2014 by oreamnos

[250BOB]

Interesting hypothesis.  While I have noted the condition of some of the "like new" items is anything but, other pre-owned items are in excellent condition and I have bought some of them - three out of production Farish locos and two tank wagons.  One of the locos was offered at a hefty discount, the other two were offered at prices comparable to current eBay sales.  The tank wagons were discounted a pound each compared to when they were new.  All the items were in excellent shape when I received them.

 

And as an overseas custmer...I didn't pay VAT on any of it.  Which makes Hatton's "like new" items a real bargain for me when compared to eBay.  Not only does it mean the Hattons items are effectively discounted about 20% when compared to the same items offered on eBay, but Hatton's overseas p+p charges are also significantly lower than those charged by most eBay sellers.  That, plus the fact when I deal with Hattons, I know who I'm buying from which is not usually the case with an eBay seller.

 

I don't know who Hattons is targetting with its "like new" service, but as far I am concerned, as an oversears customer I really like it.

 

Matt

 

My understanding is the dealers dont usually offer more than one third of the new price for second hand goods.   If they then sell for two thirds the original new price....thats a 100% profit.  better than Hornby can give dealers on new stuff.  No wonder dealers are stocking more and more second hand.

 

My figures were supplied by a dealer with shop premises.....not made up by me.

 

Its risky enough I would have thought buying new by mail order when overseas........but to buy second hand....that scares me.   Is there any come back if its not as new as you had expected.

[oreamnos]

Well, given I don't have a choice but to buy sight unseen from overseas, it really makes no odds if the items are new or second hand.  There is an unavoidable risk either way.  As a buyer all you can do is lessen your risk by using a reputable seller.

 

To their credit, the eBay sellers I've dealt with have all been honest people and the once or twice I had to return a second hand item a refund was issued no questions asked once they received the item back.  As for buying second hand from Hatton's, it has been posted on another forum (one that caters to UK N gauge modelers) that Hattons has indeed issued refunds for the second hand items it sold which ended up being being returned for being less than "like new" when received by the purchaser.

 

If I can fault Hattons for its "like new" sales, it is that firstly, I haven't yet found a clearly stated policy about returning them.  Rail's second hand eBay sale's used to clearly state the items were guaranteed and they might very well still so state - I haven't looked.  As a consumer it would be nice to see Hattons also clearly stand behind its sales.  Secondly, some of the N gauge items (I don't look at the OO ones) Hattons has listed as like new clearly are not.  For instance, this Peak:

 

http://www.ehattons.com/74531/Graham_Farish_371_576_LN_Class_45_diesel_45114_in_BR_blue_Pre_owned_Like_new/StockDetail.aspx

 

One of the domino dots headcode panels is completely missing and one of the bogie frames is clearly broken, yet it is still listed as "like new," and for 68 quid, too!  That's just not right IMHO.  That particular item should be offered as spares at best, and at a large discount.

 

Matt

Edited April 21, 2014 by oreamnos

[250BOB]

Well, given I don't have a choice but to buy sight unseen from overseas, it really makes no odds if the items are new or second hand.  There is an unavoidable risk either way.  As a buyer all you can do is lessen your risk by using a reputable seller.

 

To their credit, the eBay sellers I've dealt with have all been honest people and the once or twice I had to return a second hand item a refund was issued no questions asked once they received the item back.  As for buying second hand from Hatton's, it has been posted on another forum (one that caters to UK N gauge modelers) that Hattons has indeed issued refunds for the second hand items it sold which ended up being being returned for being less than "like new" when received by the purchaser.

 

If I can fault Hattons for its "like new" sales, it is that firstly, I haven't yet found a clearly stated policy about returning them.  Rail's second hand eBay sale's used to clearly state the items were guaranteed and they might very well still so state - I haven't looked.  As a consumer it would be nice to see Hattons also clearly stand behind its sales.  Secondly, some of the N gauge items (I don't look at the OO ones) Hattons has listed as like new clearly are not.  For instance, this Peak:

 

http://www.ehattons.com/74531/Graham_Farish_371_576_LN_Class_45_diesel_45114_in_BR_blue_Pre_owned_Like_new/StockDetail.aspx

 

One of the domino dots headcode panels is completely missing and one of the bogie frames is clearly broken, yet it is still listed as "like new," and for 68 quid, too!  That's just not right IMHO.  That particular item should be offered as spares at best, and at a large discount.

 

Matt

 

I appreciate your position Matt....buying from abroad, you have few options, and Hattons is certainly well up there.

I hope your dealings continue to be happy ones.