Hattons Model Railways of Widnes (formerly Liverpool).

[RussellD]

I pre-ordered a loco from Hattons, but when it arrived it had some broken detail and a gluey fingerprint on the side. Emailed them to say I would like a replacement and got a reply within the hour! Unfortunately they haven't got any more in stock but have agreed to refund and place an order when they come back in stock. Usual disclaimer applies; no connection just a happy customer.

[Ian Abel]

Nothing odd about it, postage costs are going up all the time.  If you're not happy with what Hattons are quoting, just cancel and try elsewhere.

Maybe it's more an Oz/DHL issue than Hattons??

I'm generally quoted (recently as of yesterday) about 11-14 quid for a 2-day DHL delivery to the US, and they typically are blindingly fast once they ship, which is usually no more than about 24-48 hours max. from time of order. This is for either 25yds. PECO track type packages (last instance), or typical Hornby/Bachmann larger locos and 2-BIL/4-CEP type EMUs.

[Steffi_C]

Maybe it's more an Oz/DHL issue than Hattons??

I'm generally quoted (recently as of yesterday) about 11-14 quid for a 2-day DHL delivery to the US, and they typically are blindingly fast once they ship, which is usually no more than about 24-48 hours max. from time of order. This is for either 25yds. PECO track type packages (last instance), or typical Hornby/Bachmann larger locos and 2-BIL/4-CEP type EMUs.

 

Oh, I quite agree.  I deleted my post when I realised that it was no longer relevant, but not quite quick enough!  DHL are good, but they're not cheap.

[acko22]

OK had a bit of a funny moment.

 

Ordered a set of Dapol Replacement pantographs for 6 pound plus the usual p&p received them within 2 days, however the mad side of if I am sure they used the biggest box ever to send it in!! 

[2002EarlMarischal]

Back in December 2012 I ordered R3207 Cock o' the North from eHattons.

 

Due to a failure in their computer systems my order date was changed to February 2014 when they shipped another pre-order item.

 

Even though they have acknowledged their error, they have failed to make amends and prioritise my order reflecting the date it was placed.  They seem to have no ability or any desire to manually override their system.

 

I have spent hundreds and hundreds over the years with Hattons but will never do so again.

 

It gave me great pleasure to cancel my order for the P2, a D16, K1 , J15 and D11/2 this evening.  They will not notice of course, but they have lost £500+ business from me due to their appalling customer service and indifferent attitude.

 

Overall I have saved money by sourcing elsewhere so have not "cut off my nose to spite my face".

 

Rails were cheaper by around £15 across the D16, K1 and J15 if anyone is interested.

[Martin_R]

Back in December 2012 I ordered R3207 Cock o' the North from eHattons.

 

Due to a failure in their computer systems my order date was changed to February 2014 when they shipped another pre-order item.

 

Even though they have acknowledged their error, they have failed to make amends and prioritise my order reflecting the date it was placed.  They seem to have no ability or any desire to manually override their system.

 

I have spent hundreds and hundreds over the years with Hattons but will never do so again.

 

It gave me great pleasure to cancel my order for the P2, a D16, K1 , J15 and D11/2 this evening.  They will not notice of course, but they have lost £500+ business from me due to their appalling customer service and indifferent attitude.

 

Overall I have saved money by sourcing elsewhere so have not "cut off my nose to spite my face".

 

Rails were cheaper by around £15 across the D16, K1 and J15 if anyone is interested.

Yes there is a fatal flaw in Hattons ordering system. I too have now decided to cancel all my other pre-orders with Hattons, they have provided me with good service over the years but their attitude over this has led me to do this. I may pay more for some or even get some items cheaper elsewhere but overall I recon that Hattons sales loss to me will be over £2,000.

[Colin_McLeod]

Feel better now?

[Steffi_C]

Can I encourage as many people as possible to cancel their main range P2 orders by way of protest.  With a bit of luck my own order (which dropped to the bottom when my Brighton Belle was despatched) will soon be right at the top of the list again!

[micklner]

One P2 on way from Waltons . My credit card wasn't any good yesterday according to Hattons their hard luck. Bought a LNER CCT at the same time £2 cheaper than Flattons    so I won't lose any sleep over £8.

I have a preorder for Bachmann Thompsons that will be knocked on the head in a minute too . Pathetic service and system that are using.

[John Tomlinson]

Feel better now?

Completely off topic, but I love the quote from Ahern - well said that man!

 

John.

[Martin_R]

Feel better now?

Actually yes I do!

I suppose we are so used to shopping online that the only time we try to talk to someone is when we have a problem. I hold my hands up for not spotting the flaw in Hattons system, a real case of 'let the buyer beware'. My real issue is that when I rang to enquire about my P2 was the total lack of indifference - a case of  "nothing in stock" didn't even ask for a name or order number. When I queried the fact that the order number and effective date had changed I was told "that's how our  system works". Sorry Hattons just not good enough.

[sawyermodels]

we're still waiting for our P2s to be delivered to us. we're hoping to have them in stock with in the next 2 weeks.

we will be getting in the Railroad P2 R3171 and the Sound version R3246TTS.

sadly we cant have the enhanced P2 as they were sold out before we could place our order for them.

Edited October 1, 2014 by sawyermodels

[bill badger]

Is one way round the 'pre-order date reset issue' to simply order each loco separately?

[PhilJ W]

Is one way round the 'pre-order date reset issue' to simply order each loco separately?

Might as well, I have put in 'bulk' orders before that have arrived in separate packaging and being charged postage each time. There appears to be no provision to 'hold' orders until they are complete. It would be good to have the option of immediate delivery or hold until the order is complete. 

[rembrow]

In response to Phil J W's point, regarding holding part of bulk orders until all the goods are received by Hattons, they do in fact give that option when you order bulk items, via a tick box, however the default position on their ordering system is to have that option set so that they despatch goods as received by them and don't hold the order. The risk of 'holding' orders is that they don't retain the item against your order, so when a later item is received, they may no longer have stock of earlier received items. A recent example is that I ordered 5 different types of Bachmann Porthole coaches, I expected, as a new release, they would be received together, in fact 3 came from Bachmann about 4 weeks before the 4th and the 5th has been delayed until next year, so I will end up paying 3 lots of postage as there will be 3 separate deliveries. If I'd selected the 'hold until all received' option, by the time the final coach appears, some time next year, the other 4 are likely to be sold out

[phil-b259]

In response to Phil J W's point, regarding holding part of bulk orders until all the goods are received by Hattons, they do in fact give that option when you order bulk items, via a tick box, however the default position on their ordering system is to have that option set so that they despatch goods as received by them and don't hold the order. The risk of 'holding' orders is that they don't retain the item against your order, so when a later item is received, they may no longer have stock of earlier received items. A recent example is that I ordered 5 different types of Bachmann Porthole coaches, I expected, as a new release, they would be received together, in fact 3 came from Bachmann about 4 weeks before the 4th and the 5th has been delayed until next year, so I will end up paying 3 lots of postage as there will be 3 separate deliveries. If I'd selected the 'hold until all received' option, by the time the final coach appears, some time next year, the other 4 are likely to be sold out

Indeed this can be an issue in this day and age when frequently you need to pre-order items otherwise you will have difficulty sourcing one when the model finally appears. On the flip side of course retailers shouldn't be expected to hang on to things indeffinately - they are after all shops not self store warehouses.

 

Like you I pre-ordered the Pothole stock but from Rails not Hattons. Once I was a aware of their iminant arrival I asked Rails to send them as ones job lot not as lots of separate parcels. To their credit they were happy to do so (though payment for each item was done as it arrived with them). When they found out the final coach was to be delayed till 2015 they said they would post the accumulated items together which I considered most reasonable.

 

On the other hand the inspection saloon I had on order turned up (with me that is) the week after the porthole stock and so obviously there is nothing built into the ordering system that automatically holds orders if arrival of another item is iminant.

Edited October 3, 2014 by phil-b259

[antrobuscp]

I've used Hatton's for many years. I've never found the ordering system a problem but then I usually order items separately and not on a bulk order. As it happens, I did do a bulk order on the Porthole Coaches, and the order date has been reset to July 2014 for the outstanding brake coach. Despite that, the order price is still shown as the original £24.00 which by July had become nearly £34.00. It does seem strange that part fulfilment of an order resets the order date but not necessarily other related data.

 

I am not an apologist for Hattons, merely being a satisfied customer, but overall I think Hatton's websites are amongst the best on the web relative to the size and nature of their business. What I find rather bizarre is that some communications/technology companies websites are amongst the worst.

[Removed a/c]

Can't say I have ever had a problem either.  Sometimes what the customer want and what the company can do, do not always jive. We do not work at Hattons so do not know the limitations of the programs they use. I work for an ISP and customer ask us for all manner of requests unfortunately we cannot accommodate them all as the software does not allow it. 

 

As a customer it is easy to gripe but unless you have worked there you have no idea. 

[antrobuscp]

Can't say I have ever had a problem either.  Sometimes what the customer want and what the company can do, do not always jive. We do not work at Hattons so do not know the limitations of the programs they use. I work for an ISP and customer ask us for all manner of requests unfortunately we cannot accommodate them all as the software does not allow it. 

 

As a customer it is easy to gripe but unless you have worked there you have no idea. 

I agree with what you say. Software frequently has limitations that seem illogical to users/customers. I could well imagine that for some internal reason, or just lack of appreciation, the software may reset the order date when it is part fulfilled. Re-writing the software to avoid this could be as "simple" as building some form of work around or the rewrite of a module, but it could require a fundamental re-write of the whole program. 

 

What I hate are websites that send you round in circles. I've had that on the Sky website a while ago, and more recently on the EE website whilst trying to find contact email addresses/phone numbers. Then again I suspect they don't want customer contact anyway other than via direct debit.

 

I had a lot of experience in the late 80s/early 90s tailoring software and writing formats for my firm, and I tried to make it all very flexible so that it could cope with future change that was obviously inevitable, yet set out a standard way of working as computer literacy in those days was not widespread. Most of it still works today and will see out my needs up to retirement. But, as one of the ultimate users, I had the advantage of knowing from a practical standpoint what was needed, and could tailor the software accordingly. Lack of this perpective is, I suspect, behind far too many software.glitches. What is possible is not always practical.  

[2002EarlMarischal]

I think that letting Hattons off the hook with the excuse that their software may be inflexible misses the point.

 

We all encounter software glitches, but a decent company which gives a fig for its customers, would ensure that where things go wrong and they are in error, they should have a manual override to deal with the problem, and keep their customers happy.

 

To just shrug and do nothing is totally unacceptable.

 

It is clear that there a few members of this forum that will never use Hattons again.  Fortunately they're not the only competitive supplier out there.

[stovepipe]

What happened to the new website they were trialling a while back? It seems to have completely disappeared now....

[Bernard Lamb]

I think that letting Hattons off the hook with the excuse that their software may be inflexible misses the point.

 

We all encounter software glitches, but a decent company which gives a fig for its customers, would ensure that where things go wrong and they are in error, they should have a manual override to deal with the problem, and keep their customers happy.

 

To just shrug and do nothing is totally unacceptable.

 

 

If you are paying top dollar then Hattons methods would certainly be unacceptable to many people.

However if you are after a bargain you have to be prepared to accept a system that could have built in limitations and a lack of staff on hand to deal with questions.

A very large DIY company that I used to deal with had "a perception of our customer".

Hattons seem to have a similar view.

If you do not fit this image then they are not for you, whatever price they might charge.

No good moaning about it. That is how it is.

My own buying pattern has changed of late as I now order individual items as they are announced.

Lack of availability and the change in trade terms means I also spread my money round several different outfits these days.

It is these last mentioned points rather than any problems with Hattons service, or lack of same, that is causing me to spend less with them.

Bernard

[Simon Moore]

Hattons has always been my first port of call when buying my modelling products. I've used them since I was a child &

although I have had a couple of issues with orders in the past they've been second to none when rectifying issues & i'm still a happy customer. The only thing I do find a pain is the second hand clogging up the website. The pre owned is also stupidly priced with some new items being cheaper than second hand.

 

Simon

[Removed a/c]

How do you know it is a glitch? It maybe that the software just cannot do it. You cannot fry eggs in a blender no matter how hard you try. 

 

Compared to many of the other online order sites for Model Railways Hattons has to be  one of the best. (well at least for me ordering overseas) 

Edited October 3, 2014 by thebritfarmer

[antrobuscp]

I think that letting Hattons off the hook with the excuse that their software may be inflexible misses the point.

 

We all encounter software glitches, but a decent company which gives a fig for its customers, would ensure that where things go wrong and they are in error, they should have a manual override to deal with the problem, and keep their customers happy.

 

To just shrug and do nothing is totally unacceptable.

 

It is clear that there a few members of this forum that will never use Hattons again.  Fortunately they're not the only competitive supplier out there.

I'm not missing the point at all. I can see that there is a problem which, as I understand it correctly, is that some have missed out on expected delivery of a particular item which, because of supply problems, has been dealt with in chronological order. and the relevant date had been updated when another part of the order had been fulfilled. Quite honestly, I'd be "hacked off" at that. However. Hattons have(in my opinion) a very good website. I'm sure it doesn't suit everyone, but I think it's the best model railway website I've seen, bar none.

 

I can also see that a "manual override" would seem to be common sense, but I can also see that there could well be a number of reasons why that facility is designed out in relation to certain data. I don't quite understand why the date should be updated when an order is part fulfilled. The problem could, for example, be that when an order is part fulfilled, there is manual intervention to ensure that the remainder of the order is retained. That procedure may forbid the entry of a date before the intervention.

 

Whatever, I don't know Hattons systems, but manual override may well be designed out to avoid an undisciplined, unreliable, and chaotic system which would be far worse than appears to exist. My experience of 35 years in business, handling computer systems. and dealing with clients, is that errors arise when the system(manual or computer) you are using is broken for some reason by the customer, the staff, the hardware, the software, etc., and you would design systems to squeeze out such issues as were foreseen. Of course you want to put the fault/complaint right pdq, but if you don't have the stock and the system works for 95/99% of customers, and it's going to take time/money to fix, there simply isn't an overnight solution. Being a little facetious, you can't put a paper sticky note on an electronic order - and even if you could, the staff member dealing with the order may not open/read it. Been there, done that, and had to sort out the mess!!

 

In an ideal world, the software would be re-written asap to eradicate the issue - as I said in my original post that may be easy/difficult to do and I've not the slightest idea if it may/may not happen. To expect it to happen immediately, I have to say, may engender disappointment.

 

It would, perhaps be useful for Hattons to provide some guidance notes on their website of known customer related software issues so that customers could decide what to do, but I suspect they'd only be read after an event. I have to say that I've always pre-ordered each item on an individual order - even if done more or less at the same time - simply because it appeared more logical to do so when the actual delivery dates were totally unknown. I could track each item by the individual order number. The only time I've made a consolidated pre-order was for the Porthole Coaches which were then expected together, and one remains outstanding. I ordered a couple of locos at the same time, but on separate orders.

 

I'm currently unhappy with O2, but that's another story, and I doubt I'll carry out my threat not to renew all the family mobiles with them!!