"Junior" club members

[newbryford]

I've searched "CRB" and Child protection but not come up with anything definitive. And there's the possibility of the previous threads that I've looked at are over 2 years old, so rules/regulations may have moved on since then.

 

We have a 15-y-o member at our club, but he is always accompanied by his granddad as his "carer" and that is acceptable within our current club rules.

However, we have another prospective member under 16 (14) that cannot guarantee that a parent will always be there - they will be dropped off and collected by parent however.

 

My question is this:

 

Do we all have to be CRB checked? Or maybe 2-3 of us, nominated as his "guardian" for the evening?

If we have a nominated person as Child Protection Officer, presumably CRB checked, is he/she suitably responsible? What happens if the CPO doesn;t turn up - do we have to send the under 16 away?

 

I'm interested to hear of other club's policies when it comes to younger members.

 

(Please don't let this thread gegenerate into a nanny state debate)

 

Cheers,

Mick

[kevinlms]

We have a similar system in Australia

 

http://justice.vic.gov.au/workingwithchildren/resources/8060c685-c8fb-4d02-af55-0a201ae7f099/wwc+check+information+sheet.pdf

 

I would consider it most unwise for juniors to be there, without at least one person being in attendance who holds the relevant card. If there is none, then the under age person has to be sent home, or preferably, not accepted on that occasion. This scenario ought to be made abundantly clear as a condition of junior membership, FIRST. Retrospectivity never works & tears or worse will result.

 

Remember its for the protection of club members as well as for the junior. It isn't the sort of claim, I'd want to try to clear myself of. Mud of this nature, I'd imagine, sticks rather too well.

 

 

Some club members won't have a check done, not necessarily because they won't pass, but may decline to do so. But if you can get the majority of members to sign, you ought to be OK.

 

So far, the two clubs I'm a member of where this may apply, it has yet to be tested.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

The trick is exactly as Kevin describes: explain the need and ask as many as are willing to get themselves CRB checked so that you are in with a good chance of always two or more present at every meet. If enough folks who can respond, then no one need be pressured. Someone has to be appointed to do the drudge work of ensuring there is a policy and procedures in place to conform to requirements.

 

Further to this, bear in mind that the UK legislation covers all potentially vulnerable folk. So that is incapacity of any sort, and the simple effects of old age (which will likely visit us all if we are spared) which makes a person potentially vulnerable to abuse.

[meil]

No, the trick is to require all junior members (i.e. below 18) to be accompanied by a parent or adult appointed by the parents . The parent need not necessarily be a member.

 

In that case no CRB checks are required.

[Revolution Mike]

Hi Mick

 

I've just emailed you through the DEMU forum with the note on this issue from the CMRA which might help.

 

Cheers, Mike

[kevinlms]

No, the trick is to require all junior members (i.e. below 18) to be accompanied by a parent or adult appointed by the parents . The parent need not necessarily be a member.

 

In that case no CRB checks are required.

 

In Australia we have this section.

 

Question 3: Does the position involve regular* direct contact** with children?

 

* Contact that is not incidental to but normally part of providing a service or activity for children.

** Contact that involves physical contact, face to face communication or within eyeshot when providing a service or activity for children.

 

Which my clubs see this as affecting our exhibition in one instance & providing miniature railway rides in another - especially the 'within eyeshot' definition.

[PLD]

No, the trick is to require all junior members (i.e. below 18) to be accompanied by a parent or adult appointed by the parents . The parent need not necessarily be a member.

 

In that case no CRB checks are required.

 

Hull MRS position is similar to what Meil says:

 

Junior Membership is available for 12-18 year olds.

Under 16s must be accompanied at all times by a Sponsoring Senior member. That Sponsoring Member does not have to be their parent/guardian but must have permission/aproval of the parent/guardian.

[R A Watson]

As I have stated before when this question comes up the relevant wording in the UK legislation is that the person in need of a C R B check has to be "solely and substantially in the presence of the vulnerable person" note that wording this applies to any individual who maybe classed at risk, not just minors who are in the company of a single individual for a sustained period of time.

 

Providing the child (VP) is in the presence of a number of responsible adults there is no legal requirement for one or all to have been checked.

 

The current public "understanding" of the situation is the result of miss reporting and consequent hysteria together with irresponsible reaction of minor figures in authority.

 

Most organisations would be best served if they adopt the policy of welcoming and encouraging the youngsters whilst ensuring they are in a group who treat each others equals.

 

Wally

[newbryford]

Thanks for all the replies and Mike's CMRA guidelines.

 

We want to encourage the younger generation into the hobby, but we have to tread carefully.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[peach james]

The best rule I can think of is taken from the Scouting organization, which is to NEVER be alone with a child (define as under 16, for sure...). That way, it is never a 2 way conversation in the event of any alligations, but a 3 way one, which is much easier to deal with. Criminal background checks will only show up someone who has a criminal record, not someone who is a bit shady...whereas, by making sure that there are always 2 members present, the club has done all that it reasonably could.

 

I would strongly encourage youth members, as without them, we are going to run out of members. Besides, I was one in the late 1980's/early 90's, where members of the Platelayers Society (Southern Ontario, Canada) went to bat for me to allow my membership.

 

In my case, the deal was that I would be accompanied by a responsible adult...which worked OK. That was from age 13 on, although there had been a LOT of interaction prior to that, as I have been involved from about age 8 on with the model engineering side of things.

 

James Powell

[Happy Hippo]

When I read the title of this thread, I was expecting a query on whether the club offered a structured program of skills training to junior members not a query on how the CRB system works.

 

We only have one junior member, he is always accompanied by either his mother or grandfather, even though a number of club members have been vetted through the CRB.

 

And he started his modelling using a short but structured program.

 

We even give him homework!

 

Regards

 

Richard

[newbryford]

When I read the title of this thread, I was expecting a query on whether the club offered a structured program of skills training to junior members not a query on how the CRB system works.

 

 

 

 

Good point!

My original question was prompted by an influx of prospective new members to our club which includes juniors (under 16). As a result of the new intake, we are wanting to do basic training sessions for the newer members - both young and old.

 

 

 

We are looking at grants etc to help finance our training project - tools,materials etc - and the original question is related to the Awards for All application, that has some fairly robust requirements in place regarding under-18's;

This is copied from the AfA website: (Apologies for the formatting)

 

18. Does your project involve work with children, young people under

 

the age of 18 or vulnerable adults?

 

 

If yes, as a minimum we expect you to:

 

 

 

have safeguarding policies in place that are appropriate to your organisation’s

 

work and the project you are asking us to fund

 

 

 

review your safeguarding policies at least every year

 

 

 

complete a rigorous recruitment and selection process for staff and volunteers

 

who work with children, young people or vulnerable adults, including checking

 

criminal records and taking up references

 

 

 

check criminal records at least every three years

 

 

 

follow statutory or best practice guidance on appropriate ratios of staff or

 

volunteers to children, young people or vulnerable adults

 

 

 

provide child protection and health and safety training or guidance for staff

 

and volunteers

 

 

 

carry out a risk assessment, if appropriate

 

 

 

secure extra insurance cover, if appropriate.

 

 

 

 

As you can see, there are a number of hoops to be jumped through regarding younger members making it difficult for us to secure potential funding for our training project unless we disregard the next generation. This is not something we want to do, as the next generation are the future of our hobby. (I want them to carry baseboards when I'm too old! )

Rather than getting everyone CRB checked - which is not a perfect solution by any means - the key move would be to assign a few members to work with the juniors and/or insist on a parent/guardian being present.

Cheers,

Mick

[James]

A cricket club is a bit different (we have issues of changing and other situations which don't arise in MRCs) but the way do things is that ALL officers of the club are CRB checked - so this includes all captains and vice captains which means there'll always be someone at a match where junior players may be playing alongside senior players, and of course caoches are checked as they are in charge of training sessions. This has worked quite well for us.

 

A key thing is, as mentioned above, never allow yourself or a member to be in a one on one situation.

[Talltim]

 

 

complete a rigorous recruitment and selection process for staff and volunteers[/color][/font][/color][/font]

 

 

Ok, how many MRCs have a rigorous selection process?

 

[

[GC Jack]

We have a policy of no children at the club now. We looked very carefully into this and other problems a number of years ago. The club is now registered as a limited liability company. This protects all members in the event of litigation being filed against the club for damages following accident or injury on club premises. Not all clubs apparently realise that all members can be liable for damages.

 

The children issue is really complicated now and we would have to have a fully trained child protection officer - regardless of whether an adult accompanies them. This is required by our insurers who advised us on the liability issue and who also strongly recommended that children should not be admitted as there are recognised dangers from electronic equipment and tools such as soldering irons. Also the threat of members sexually assualting or grooming a child which happened at our a club a number of years ago.

 

All very sad, but its a new world now.

 

Jacl

[newbryford]

. This is required by our insurers who advised us on the liability issue and who also strongly recommended that children should not be admitted as there are recognised dangers from electronic equipment and tools such as soldering irons.

 

Another case of the nanny state.

 

However, we have some adult members in our club that I wouldn't let near a soldering iron.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[kevinlms]

 

However, we have some adult members in our club that I wouldn't let near a soldering iron.

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

Or let anywhere near ballasting, unless you like chiseling away the excess, stuck like concrete to the inside of the rail, for the next 6 months.

[kevinlms]

We have a policy of no children at the club now. We looked very carefully into this and other problems a number of years ago. The club is now registered as a limited liability company. This protects all members in the event of litigation being filed against the club for damages following accident or injury on club premises. Not all clubs apparently realise that all members can be liable for damages.

 

The children issue is really complicated now and we would have to have a fully trained child protection officer - regardless of whether an adult accompanies them. This is required by our insurers who advised us on the liability issue and who also strongly recommended that children should not be admitted as there are recognised dangers from electronic equipment and tools such as soldering irons. Also the threat of members sexually assualting or grooming a child which happened at our a club a number of years ago.

 

All very sad, but its a new world now.

 

Jacl

 

You should go elsewhere for your insurers, telling them that if you followed that policy, the hobby & anything involving tools would be dead for future generations.

 

But perhaps its a case of what your club members wanted in light of your earlier troubles, and told your insurers much bad news & no benefits of juniors? Many adults reckon they attend clubs etc, to get away from kids.

[GC Jack]

You should go elsewhere for your insurers, telling them that if you followed that policy, the hobby & anything involving tools would be dead for future generations.

 

But perhaps its a case of what your club members wanted in light of your earlier troubles, and told your insurers much bad news & no benefits of juniors? Many adults reckon they attend clubs etc, to get away from kids.

 

Hi Kevin,

 

I wasn't involved in setting any of this up, but there was/is a fear of things going wrong as they have in the past. We have a growing membership, mostly middle age and male and the club is thriving. There were many problems with junior members previously. One damged some very expenisive stock - the parent aggresively refused to take any responsibility and blamed the member for putting the stock on the layout whilst his child was there. Many other difficulities, one mother tried to use us as baby sitters by dropping her son off for the evening.

 

Jack

[James]

telling them that if you followed that policy, the hobby & anything involving tools would be dead for future generations.

 

I doubt that would make much difference - there is clearly an issue with anyone using tools without the correct knowledge or training.

 

But perhaps its a case of what your club members wanted in light of your earlier troubles, and told your insurers much bad news & no benefits of juniors? Many adults reckon they attend clubs etc, to get away from kids.

 

Any organisation which has suffered as a result of an individual abusing a position of trust is going to feel the effects for some time afterwards - people are understanbdably wary, so an insurance company insisting on various things isn't a bad thing.

[big jim]

the club i'm a member of is so full of oldies that i'm the junior member at 37 years old. (seriously!)

 

the crb system is so complicated, my wife volenteers for a charity helping vunrable families so needs a CRB for that obviously however she also volenteers helping old folks so has to have a separate one for that, and a separate one for when she did face painting

[James]

And all the CRB check proves is you've never been caught!

[James]

the crb system is so complicated, my wife volenteers for a charity helping vunrable families so needs a CRB for that obviously however she also volenteers helping old folks so has to have a separate one for that, and a separate one for when she did face painting

 

Incidentally, the replacement (which seems to have died a death) would have simplified it as it was a continuos process where your file would be updated if anything happened or any convictions were made so it would be an instant check on the individual - and much quicker too. It would also update the employer or organisation concerned too.

[kevinlms]

And all the CRB check proves is you've never been caught!

 

Of course that's true. The same applies to anything. You could be the world's worst driver, but still never had an accident or a speeding fine. Others may have had to take evasive action.

[kevinlms]

the club i'm a member of is so full of oldies that i'm the junior member at 37 years old. (seriously!)

 

the crb system is so complicated, my wife volenteers for a charity helping vunrable families so needs a CRB for that obviously however she also volenteers helping old folks so has to have a separate one for that, and a separate one for when she did face painting

 

Why do you need a separate one for face painting on the 'old folks'?