Wright writes.....

[chris p bacon]

Top work. Let me know when you're making those available. The D & S kit is the 46'6" one, isn't it, so you're not duplicating.

Thanks, I presume you mean the luggage van. I've never seen a D & S kit and didn't realise Dan had made one. 

 

This is the Dia 42 (page 92 in ECJS by Hoole) one issue I've had is that there is only a gangway connection at one end. I've cast the other as a blank end as I've seen no end photographs of these particular vans to go from.

 I've got to make the roof up in the next week or so then I can easily run a couple of extra castings off for you.

[jwealleans]

In that case you might find this page from Steve Banks' website helpful.

 

If you don't know Steve's site, it's a mine of information and regularly updated and expanded. Worth looking into regularly.

 

I can take no credit for knowing that there were two different diagrams of clerestory BG, it all came from there. Mr. King provides a nicely built D & S one for Grantham but I can't put my hands on a photo just at the moment.

Edited March 18, 2017 by jwealleans

[chris p bacon]

In that case you might find this page from Steve Bank's website helpful.

 

If you don't know Steve's site, it's a mine of information and regularly updated and expanded. Worth looking into regularly.

 

I can take no credit for knowing that there were two different diagrams of clerestory BG, it all came from there. Mr. King provides a nicely built D & S one for Grantham but I can't put my hands on a photo just at the moment.

Thanks for that, I've seen his site but missed that page. Some more info for the underframe but still the elusive blank end.

 

I doubt I'll let Mr B within 20' of this without having a paracetomol at the ready............

[Tony Wright]

Hello Tony

 

To start with a big thank you to you and Mo for putting up with Andy and I.

 

On the way home the conversation kept wandering off as they do but kept coming back to how much both of us enjoyed playing operating your layout. Apart form a few human errors in the fiddle yard all seemed to work very well.................if you don't include the lazy signalman who was slow to return the signals back to danger. Not one of the drivers drove through a signal at danger. 

 

I was very impressed by the variety of coaching stock in use today, and with the trains being formed of the correct coaches.

 

Again, thank you Tony for inviting us today.

Thanks Clive,

 

I don't think it's a case of us putting up with you, it's a case of your putting up with me!

 

As I said yesterday, what a great pleasure it was to have two good friends over to operate the railway. As I also said, it would be of no joy to me (or you) if I were apologising all the time for poor running caused by the railway/stock. What did we have 'go wrong'? Two early derailments while just mucking about, caused by my reforming rakes of carriages and not checking thoroughly that all the relative coupling heights were compatible. A tweak and that was that. Any other 'problems' were, as usual, down to my operating incompetence through not concentrating. You two did very well indeed.

 

I know I keep going on about good running, but it is a basic tenet as far as I'm concerned. Running which saw MALLARD break her own world record going UPHILL on 12 bogies! Running which saw a 9F going at a crawling pace without a stammer or a stutter, on 50 wagons! Perfect running, the like of which was demonstrated by your Class 24. Without good running, I don't suppose I'd have any visitors to operate LB.

 

Thanks again,

 

Tony.  

[Tony Wright]

As a bit of fun I wondered what I could do with the short Railroad teaks. How about a 53'6" ECJS Clerestorey Comp Locker 3rd.

 

IMG_1474.JPG

I made up the sides in 14 pieces cut from 2 coaches, scratchbuilt the roof and then cast the whole coach as one in resin, has a few things wrong with it but as a first time I thought it turned out ok and passes the 3' rule.

Next up is the 45' luggage brake

IMG_1485.JPG

Only about 6 pieces on this side, I've cast as seperate sides/ends and this one is much better than the first.

 

At present I'm just using the RR underframe (Cut down) with the bogies to see how cheaply and easily I can make them.

Dave,

 

This is great stuff - many thanks for posting. 

 

Isn't this sort of self-reliance, ingenuity, clever conversion and down-right personal modelling what Wright Writes is all about? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[mullie]

Looking back through my old modelling magazines it seems to me that the type of modelling where existing stock and kits was modified to look like something different and close(ish) to a known prototype was more common, perhaps with the amount of rtr now available and people having less time it has become less common. I'm approaching my mid 50s and grew up making Airfix kits etc so this type of progression seemed natural to me. Trying to model 1940s-50 East Anglia on a limited budget has led me to be creative with what is available some of which has been seen on this thread before.

 

Ratio 4 wheeler bashed into an ex Kelvedon and Tollesbury tramway coach with Silver Fox J70 running on Bullant bogie.

 

 

Pair of six wheelers bashed from Ratio four wheelers.

 

 

As layout coaches they will do for now, the main compromise was that I couldn't get the lettering in exactly the right place but I can live with that otherwise it wouldn't have been possible. The main other coaching stock on the layout is a pair of shortie clerestory coaches that have already been seen on here.

 

Next project? I have bashed a Bachmann J72 into a passable representation of a J65 and I'm currently building a Comet chassis to go under it. The J72 chassis has needed a few millimetres shaved off the front which was scary but through the use of a Poppy's jig everything seems to have ended up square. I will post some picture soon.

 

My M&GN local is an old Airfix Stanier corridor brake and a Ratio ex LNWR composite in LNER brown. 

 

May not be perfect but far more interesting than the rtr coaches I used to use in my view.

 

Martyn

[Clive Mortimore]

As a bit of fun I wondered what I could do with the short Railroad teaks. How about a 53'6" ECJS Clerestorey Comp Locker 3rd.

 

IMG_1474.JPG

I made up the sides in 14 pieces cut from 2 coaches, scratchbuilt the roof and then cast the whole coach as one in resin, has a few things wrong with it but as a first time I thought it turned out ok and passes the 3' rule.

Next up is the 45' luggage brake

IMG_1485.JPG

Only about 6 pieces on this side, I've cast as seperate sides/ends and this one is much better than the first.

 

At present I'm just using the RR underframe (Cut down) with the bogies to see how cheaply and easily I can make them.

Hi Dave

 

It was seeing your models that gave me the impetus to have a go and seeing the work the guys on the "New Collets from old" thread are doing. 

 

I was very surprised that the compartment sizes on the models matched those of the prototype, I was wondering where Hornby had taken out the missing length. The CK is missing the half compartment, so it is possible to lengthen one with bits off another conversion. I haven't studied the BCK as to where the missing length is. I think there is quite a bit of mileage in these old coaches for making LNER and GNR layout coaches and at a reasonable cost.

[Clive Mortimore]

Thanks Clive,

 

I don't think it's a case of us putting up with you, it's a case of your putting up with me!

 

As I said yesterday, what a great pleasure it was to have two good friends over to operate the railway. As I also said, it would be of no joy to me (or you) if I were apologising all the time for poor running caused by the railway/stock. What did we have 'go wrong'? Two early derailments while just mucking about, caused by my reforming rakes of carriages and not checking thoroughly that all the relative coupling heights were compatible. A tweak and that was that. Any other 'problems' were, as usual, down to my operating incompetence through not concentrating. You two did very well indeed.

 

I know I keep going on about good running, but it is a basic tenet as far as I'm concerned. Running which saw MALLARD break her own world record going UPHILL on 12 bogies! Running which saw a 9F going at a crawling pace without a stammer or a stutter, on 50 wagons! Perfect running, the like of which was demonstrated by your Class 24. Without good running, I don't suppose I'd have any visitors to operate LB.

 

Thanks again,

 

Tony.  

I am innocent of the charging duck. It didn't 'alf motor        

 

If as you say it was one of the best goes at the sequence then I am really looking forward to returning and having another go. 

 

Thanks. 

[Enterprisingwestern]

Not forgetting the good old days of cutting 2 Mainline Mk1 BSK's to make a scale length BG.

Isn't this what modelling is all about, creativity?

 

Mike.

[Focalplane]

For some people creativity is opening a blue or red box with great dexterity so that when closed again it looks like it has never been opened.

 

I have quite a few of them, but the only problem is that the locos all have Kadee couplers; how they got there I really cannot say. 

Edited March 18, 2017 by Focalplane

[Headstock]

Yes that is correct. In fact I bought two Bachmann WR RODs a few years ago which complement the three O4/1s I bought (the last of these was second hand for about 40 pounds).

 

The two WR RODs have formed the basis for my O4/5 which uses a Bill Bedford 3D printed boiler and cab and the other for an accurate O4/3(ex ROD)on which I have used one of the Bachmann O4/1 boilers. The best thing about using the WR ROD for this is that it has the correct cab roof. Bachmann have excelled in not only making the footplate more accurate but have also made the correct cab roof for the ROD version - it had the rear piece of angle iron set further forward to allow for a tarpaulin to be rolled up and tied on top of the rear section of roof behind the angle iron in ROD days. Bachmann have also included the prominent boltheads on the front frame extensions on the WR ROD. There are some variations also in the inspection plates on top of the footplate which might not be correct for LNER versions but I wasn't fussed about that.

 

The O4/5 has a modified tender with water pick up fitted. Unfortunately I have had to use the Gibson water pickup hand wheel which has two spokes too many. There is a brass one available in an etch from Brassmasters but it appears to be too big in diameter. Both have had the cylinders raised to line up the piston rod with the centre of the driving axle. On the O4/5 I also swapped the buffer heads with those from a Bachmann D11 as they are a different shape - not so elliptical and correct for my O4/5.

 

These two plus the first Bachmann O4/1 I purchased trundle around my layout easily with 40 mineral wagons but of course can't out perform my old Ks O4 with its Portescap (fitted about 1981)!

 

One Bachmann O4/1 is spare at present and the bits from the other WR ROD will be used on other projects in the future - the boiler with some modification probably on my McGowan B4.

 

Photos of the O4/3 and O4/5 below.

 

Andrew Emmett

 

Good morning Andrew,

 

a question for you with regard to your O4/5 if I may. Is the boiler solid through the length of the barrel, or is there provision made to add weight as desired?

[St Enodoc]

Not forgetting the good old days of cutting 2 Mainline Mk1 BSK's to make a scale length BG.

Isn't this what modelling is all about, creativity?

 

Mike.

You must be a lot younger than I! I did that with old Tri-ang coaches.

[Clive Mortimore]

You must be a lot younger than I! I did that with old Tri-ang coaches.

He only pretends to be young.

 

And I am still doing it with Tri-ang coaches.

[gr.king]

Oh, dear, I seem to have stirred something up. My comment was really aimed at Graeme, who (he'll correct me if I'm wrong) was motivated to create his corrected versions of the Margate Gresleys when he was told by a well known carriage researcher and builder (no longer a member of this forum) that they were absolutely no good and the best thing he could do was bin them.

 

The trouble with irony, as I've found for myself on some occasions, is that it's a tricky weapon to wield, apt to backfire. At least the above misunderstanding is now corrected.

 

I must apologize for not being able to bore you all to death more fully with detailed coverage of some Margate Gresley conversions, also for the fact that some of the following pictures are grim pre-digital items and come with a major lack of explanations, but here's a taste of how useless those coaches can be as donor models:

 

Turning BCK into a full-length BTK with scratchbuilt sides to long brake/luggage portion

 

 

I'm not sure how many cuts and shuts count as too many. Full length TK:

 

A couple more recently disguised as GN Howlden stock of no particular real diagram:

 

And before you all die of boredom, the full batch of mock GN coaches with some proper models made from kits, including one from Dan Pinnock's etched kit for the Cowlairs-built GN pattern ECJS luggage brake also mentioned above. I have much better pictures of that brake, but insufficient time at present to change the file formats and sizes to suit RMWeb's permitted uploads.

 

My next cunning plan (or even more futile waste of time, depending on one's degree of coaching stock pedantry) will involve separating even more parts of the sides, including division of upper and lower parts from one another in some places to allow for even more re-arrangement - unless the nurses make me take my medication - but they'll have to catch me first.

 

 

27/03/2017: Given the pace at which this thread moves on, this is a rather late addition to the information, but this link to some better pictures of those "entirely useless" Hornby Margate / Railroad coaches came my way this morning, thanks to "Dorchester Castle" having "rated" an older contribution of mine.

 

http://www.rmweb.co....ites/?p=1285478

Edited March 27, 2017 by gr.king

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Graeme

 

They are really inspirational, I don't need to many hauled coaches for my layout but I think a few more ex LNER ones may be added.

[Mallard60022]

Inspirational cut and shutt stuff there fellows.

If anyone wants some of those short Gresleys I have a few lurking and they are of no use to me at all. I'll even pay the postage to get rid of them!!

Phil

[drmditch]

Just to add to the party, there are more things one can do with the old Margate mouldings.

 

 

I made two brakes (different diagrams) and a third about a year before Hornby produced their new (much superior) versions.

 

But I do quite like mine, and they are all my own.!

 

There are plans for more vehicles as well.

Edited March 18, 2017 by drmditch

[robertcwp]

Oh, dear, I seem to have stirred something up. My comment was really aimed at Graeme, who (he'll correct me if I'm wrong) was motivated to create his corrected versions of the Margate Gresleys when he was told by a well known carriage researcher and builder (no longer a member of this forum) that they were absolutely no good and the best thing he could do was bin them.

I wonder which well-known carriage researcher and builder that might have been  . Possibly someone who has now departed it seems even from the one LNER forum he had been on.

 

Clearly several modellers on this forum have proved him wrong, which is not really that difficult.

 

Having seen Grantham a couple of times, I have been really impressed with the stock.

[Willie Whizz]

I wonder which well-known carriage researcher and builder that might have been  . Possibly someone who has now departed it seems even from the one LNER forum he had been on.

 

Clearly several modellers on this forum have proved him wrong, which is not really that difficult.

 

...

 

Well if it's the person I think you mean, I regret to say that I gather from another source that your feelings and beliefs are certainly reciprocated ... though I don't suppose you'd be surprised to hear that. 

 

Taking 'personalities' out of it, however ... the trouble is with this Internet thingy - back in the day there was no doubting who the 'experts' were - they had books published and no-one could argue with what was in them; or if you tried you could only reach a handful of people at (say) a club meeting, so it didn't amount to much anyway.    If O.S. Nock said an engine was rubbish, it was rubbish - end of debate!  Nowadays there's so much more information available, and easily accessible, which is wonderful in theory - but equally, there are so many opinions on the 'interpretation' of it out there, and so few 'survivors' of the times who could definitively state: "never mind what the rules said, this is what we used to actually do!," that it is difficult for the comparative layman to know who best to believe when 'anybody' can be an expert.  Especially when some people try to just 'shout' more loudly and more persistently than their antagonist.

 

I suppose the moral is:  'modeller's licence' trumps 'expertise' anyway, for most of us, for at least some of the time.  So be guided; but be aware that - as any veteran bureaucrat will tell you - for every rule there is an exception, and for every set procedure there's a work-around, so don't take them all too literally; maybe the day you're modelling happened to be a day they came into play ...

[gr.king]

Just to add to the party, there are more things one can do with the old Margate mouldings.

 

Post_13.JPG

 

 

 

I had a hopeful feeling that we might see those on here too.

[Headstock]

To date, my only example of plastic carriage cut and shutting was replicating the additional doors added to some of the ex-streamlined stock. Comparatively minor compared to the examples above but it was to be the first carriage kit (transparent Mailcoach) to be attempted. The additional doors were added as a result of the Huntington disaster and consisted of one each side of the inner articulated ends of the individual units. The relevant saloon was cut through and the unwanted piece of side and window was discarded. The extra door visible above the articulated bogie was then cut out from a spare Mailcoach side and the three components but jointed together in a purpose made jig.

Edited March 18, 2017 by Headstock

[richard i]

Connected to conversions and time. Tony says he will in the fullness of time convert the freight stock that is shunted to spat and winkle couplings. I can now tell you having converted 50 coal wagons, from rtr, kits and scratch. It took 3 months of only doing that. Now a retired person might do it more quickly, but then they seem to have the fullest diaries too.

Changes your mind on doing it?

Richard

[mullie]

Connected to conversions and time. Tony says he will in the fullness of time convert the freight stock that is shunted to spat and winkle couplings. I can now tell you having converted 50 coal wagons, from rtr, kits and scratch. It took 3 months of only doing that. Now a retired person might do it more quickly, but then they seem to have the fullest diaries too.

Changes your mind on doing it?

Richard

Only change the ones you need to change, possibly no need to do all those that run in a rake? I've used S&Ws for around twenty years and I wouldn't want to go through a mass conversion of stock, I got away with it because I was starting again and only ever build small layouts.

 

Martyn

Edited March 18, 2017 by mullie

[chris p bacon]

Hi Dave

 

It was seeing your models that gave me the impetus to have a go and seeing the work the guys on the "New Collets from old" thread are doing. 

 

I was very surprised that the compartment sizes on the models matched those of the prototype, I was wondering where Hornby had taken out the missing length. The CK is missing the half compartment, so it is possible to lengthen one with bits off another conversion. I haven't studied the BCK as to where the missing length is. I think there is quite a bit of mileage in these old coaches for making LNER and GNR layout coaches and at a reasonable cost.

Thanks Clive, I had actually started those ages ago but got sidetracked with the 3D locomotive developments. It was Graeme King that posted something that made me dig them back out and resume them, so it's impetus on impetus.

 

I agree that these coaches have got some mileage in them, they aren't the most accurate but for about a fiver you get a body an underframe and some bogies, with some styrene and a few parts you can have a coach for less than a tenner that is never going to be in a blue or red box. They also make you study drawings and research which then gives you a better understanding of the prototype.  There are quite a few more in my 'wants' list that these might be suitable for, although for the 12 wheelers I might have to invest in a silhouette cutter for the sides.

Edited March 18, 2017 by chris p bacon

[Barry Ten]

Connected to conversions and time. Tony says he will in the fullness of time convert the freight stock that is shunted to spat and winkle couplings. I can now tell you having converted 50 coal wagons, from rtr, kits and scratch. It took 3 months of only doing that. Now a retired person might do it more quickly, but then they seem to have the fullest diaries too.

Changes your mind on doing it?

Richard

 

Fitting S&W couplings is very time consuming, in my experience. I try to make a batch of the couplings in one go, then fit them, but even then I doubt that I've ever managed to do more than four wagons in an evening, and two is more like it. My compromise solution is, where possible, to group wagons into fixed rakes wherever they would be likely to be shunted as a unit, rather than individually, and then do the intermediate couplings with 3-links, which don't have to take as long to fit. For instance, if the cattle trucks on my pick up goods are all moved to and from the dock in one go, I don't lose any play value in only fitting S&Ws to the outer ends of the rake.

 

I've done some mineral trains with up to eight wagons in a fixed rake, with say two rakes of seven and eight forming a complete train by my not very long standards.

 

On the other hand, fitting S&W couplings is one of those self-contained modelling jobs that can be picked up and completed in an evening without requiring too many tools or preparation, so I find it handy when I want to do something constructive but can't decide which kit to start/finish, which transfers to put on, which decoder to blow up etc...

 

Alastair

 

(Edit - I see I've only really repeated what Mullie just said - my apologies, for not seeing his post before adding mine!)

Edited March 18, 2017 by Barry Ten