Wright writes.....

[Dunsignalling]

3 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Already exists - Brassmasters. Were at Warley and I stocked up on all sorts (steps, AWS bits, cab doors etc etc) 

Agreed, but I think there's an opportunity for specific packs promoted as r-t-r "repair" items.

 

A supplier that services the "finescale" market need not supply only that segment, and extending its customer base would help ensure the continuity of supply to core customers.

 

John

 

 

[Northmoor]

On the subject of kit-building, the "Trains Galore" auction is as I write, working through the kit-built OO items.  Some incredible bargains, hopefully some RMWebbers are winning a few and they're not all going to traders to mark up by 200% (then stand around at shows complaining how no-one is buying anything).

Were my model railway tokens wallet not welded shut, I would have been tempted by the 2x GWR 72xx tanks, built and complete; sold for £70!  Some of the London Underground models sold in the last hour were ridiculously cheap, considering their rarity and the work that has gone into making them.

[bbishop]

You may recall that I wrote about the pre-grouping milk train being build for Southwark Bridge.  One of the vehicles is the Roxey kit of a S&DJR van, from which either Henry Bousher or Ivan Smith had mislaid the instructions.  I could build the kit but couldn't sort out the brake gear.  So a phone call to Dave Hammersley and yesterday the instructions arrived in the post.  Service?

[Compound2632]

24 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Agreed, but I think there's an opportunity for specific packs promoted as r-t-r "repair" items.

But that is exactly what Brassmasters do, with detailing packs for numerous RTR locos.

[Dunsignalling]

9 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

But that is exactly what Brassmasters do, with detailing packs for numerous RTR locos.

But my intended point is that they are promoted for upgrade/conversion purposes to Brassmasters' established "finescale" market segment; e.g., ads in MRJ rather than Model Rail, if you will.

 

What I am advocating is direct replacement metal bits than can be fitted with no more skill/tools than are required to remove the remains of the broken plastic part.

 

Many of the parts involved might well be (or could be) similar but, as things stand, many of the people who would buy an "RTR Repair Pack" will remain unaware of what is available.

 

Perhaps, though, this might be more appropriately dealt with by someone like Peter's Spares?

 

John

[sjp23480]

11 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

But my intended point is that they are promoted for upgrade/conversion purposes to Brassmasters' established "finescale" market segment; e.g., ads in MRJ rather than Model Rail, if you will.

 

What I am advocating is direct replacement metal bits than can be fitted with no more skill/tools than are required to remove the remains of the broken plastic part.

 

Many of the parts involved might well be (or could be) similar but, as things stand, many of the people who would buy an "RTR Repair Pack" will remain unaware of what is available.

 

Perhaps, though, this might be more appropriately dealt with by someone like Peter's Spares?

 

John

Like Craftsman, whereas Crownline of old were more like the modern day Brassmasters

[Steamport Southport]

25 minutes ago, sjp23480 said:

Like Craftsman, whereas Crownline of old were more like the modern day Brassmasters

 

A lot of the Crownline range is now available from PDK and they are adding to it regularly.

 

http://www.pdkmodels.co.uk/

 

Click PARTS LIST

 

http://www.pdkmodels.co.uk/PDK Parts List.pdf

 

You've also got 247 Developments, Branchlines, RT Models, Gibson and Markits.

 

I also believe that SE Finecast and Nucast Partners are willing to sell parts from their kits.

 

It's not as bleak as many think.

 

 

Jason

[polybear]

3 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Whilst I doubt there's anything I will be unable to obtain without Eileen's, I'll inevitably have to spend quite a bit of time rummaging around numerous other websites to find all of it.     

 

With the added disadvantage that it may entail purchases from more than one supplier, thus invoking multiple postage charges.

[Jol Wilkinson]

14 hours ago, Northmoor said:

Nowadays of course, if you want "BR model transfers" without knowing a supplier name it would take 30 seconds web search.  A half-decent website now is all the advertising you might need (although that's certainly not free and takes time in itself, even if some activities are just substituting for others necessary before the age of the Internet.

 

It's worth comparing the small, specialist suppliers (some of whom either produce unique products or who have very few competitors for their services) like Wizard and Fox, to your local one-man-band tradesman.  A large proportion - possibly even most of them - don't actually advertise because they have enough business to remain near enough fully employed, which is earned by reputation and often with informal businesses partnerships.  For instance, our former next door neighbour Stuart is a kitchen fitter; when he fitted ours, he used an electrician and a plumber from no more than two or three he regularly uses and trusts.  I don't think any of them spend a penny on advertising. 

The difference is that a specialist supplier usually has new products to promote, whereas a local tradesman doesn't.  Introducing new products means sending information/photos to magazines, posting on appropriate web forums, attending shows with a trade stand, maintaining an up to date website, buying advertising space, etc.

 

The tradesmen we have employed to do a considerable amount of work on the house we moved into in early 2020 were nearly all found through word of mouth recommendations and most don't have a website or advertise. Of the several we we did find through adverts (we were new to the area), only one would we employ again.

[Guest Simon A.C. Martin]

4 hours ago, Chris Higgs said:

 

So, if we begin with the presumption that it was a D702 RK (the picture you have posted is a D702), the D700 and D701 examples having anthracite stoves and were withdrawn quite early. I don't have a stock book for 1968,  but the 1976 stock book from RCTS lists the following as Eastern region examples:

 

E80022, E80023, E80024, E80026, E80028, E80037, and E80039.

 

Can you see the bogies in the film? According to the RCTS, in 1976 the bogies were B1 on E80022, E80023, E80024, E80026 and B5 on E80028, E80037, and E80039. Confusingly, the Wizard photo has Commonwealths.

 

EDIT: this post says the RK had B5 bogies. It states there were no ER RKs with B5 bogies, but RCTS say otherwise. So my guess is one of  E80028, E80037, and E80039.

 

 

Chris

 

 

A real struggle to glean much but this is the best shot I could get. 
 

Definitely looks like a D702. 
 

Bogies do not look like commonwealths to me, but the shot is dark and full detail is difficult to see.

 

They may well be B5s.

 

If that’s the case, I will use E80028 as a personal reference to Clan Line!

 

Thanks for your help Chris.

 

I will go order a set of cheap B5 bogies off eBay. 

Edited December 14, 2022 by Simon A.C. Martin

[MikeParkin65]

37 minutes ago, Simon A.C. Martin said:

 

 

A real struggle to glean much but this is the best shot I could get. 
 

Definitely looks like a D702. 
 

Bogies do not look like commonwealths to me, but the shot is dark and full detail is difficult to see.

 

They may well be B5s.

 

If that’s the case, I will use E80028 as a personal reference to Clan Line!

 

Thanks for your help Chris.

 

I will go order a set of cheap B5 bogies off eBay. 

Looking forward to seeing the full set when you've built it :)

[westerner]

Yet another shot from the Forest of Dean

 

Edited December 14, 2022 by westerner

[sjp23480]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

A lot of the Crownline range is now available from PDK and they are adding to it regularly.

 

http://www.pdkmodels.co.uk/

 

Click PARTS LIST

 

http://www.pdkmodels.co.uk/PDK Parts List.pdf

 

You've also got 247 Developments, Branchlines, RT Models, Gibson and Markits.

 

I also believe that SE Finecast and Nucast Partners are willing to sell parts from their kits.

 

It's not as bleak as many think.

 

 

Jason

Jason,

 

Agreed, but the purchaser still needs to know what they are buying

 

I was of the impression the OP was looking to market these components to the RTR buyer that wants to upgrade their out of the box purchase.  

 

AFAIK this was pretty much the premise of Craftsman (and Westward detailing packs).  The buyer needed  limited technical knowledge, just buy the bag of bits and add them per the instructions.

 

Crownline kits were a different proposition, requiring more skill and sometimes a sprinkling of scratch building skill to get the best from them!

 

Steve

[MJI]

4 hours ago, Barclay said:

Apologies but it sounds like you might be having an issue with this so I'll pass this on for what it's worth - I found I got no response from the email address on the website, but was directed by someone on here to use: brian55hanson@icloud.com

 

 

 

Got the response, will pay tonight, yet more Airfix 2D frames and glazing.

 

Will be well over 20 done in end for 2C to 2F all Airfix.

 

Will include at least 2 2E TSOs made from BSOs, and half of all WR BFKs

 

The 2ABC glazing sort of dried up as it was too small to be used behind his rather nice 2ABC frames.

 

The Lima 47 glazing was excellent.

 

WIll be putting in another DMU order soon as well.

 

People like Brian are essential to our hobby.

[MJI]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning John,

 

I think the two things you mention are definitely related. Indeed, the emergence of such high quality RTR in recent times has freed up many modellers' time to devote to other aspects of building their layouts; not just scenery, but electrics and so on. 

 

And, it's not just the quality, it's the range, too. Just over a decade ago I wrote in a book I'd authored for Irwell on modelling the LNER Pacifics that the likes of Thompson's Pacifics would never become available RTR. Shows how much I know, or how little! 

 

A glance through recent mags shows 'Big Bertha' is to be made RTR. A few years ago, I built a DJH kit of it. What price such a kit now? What about the Fell diesel? Who'd have thought that would ever appear RTR? I wonder where (and when) it will all end. 

 

You say 'hopefully, not "straight-out-of-the-box", and I'm with you in that hope, but I still see so many locos/items of rolling stock in the press and at shows where nothing seems to have been done to improve/alter/detail/weather any of these models. Are folk afraid to do these things? Is there a perception that they'll be devalued? 

 

Even where they might have been improved, I can't shake off my prejudice. In the main, they represent 'purchasing power', not something that someone has actually built. I always find the latter far more interesting, even though it might be inferior to an RTR equivalent.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Still huge gaps in coaching stock and wagons.

 

Get more modern, DMUs and EMUs.

 

 

 

55 minutes ago, Simon A.C. Martin said:

 

 

A real struggle to glean much but this is the best shot I could get. 
 

Definitely looks like a D702. 
 

Bogies do not look like commonwealths to me, but the shot is dark and full detail is difficult to see.

 

They may well be B5s.

 

If that’s the case, I will use E80028 as a personal reference to Clan Line!

 

Thanks for your help Chris.

 

I will go order a set of cheap B5 bogies off eBay. 

 

Replica B5s are pretty good.

Edited December 14, 2022 by MJI
,

[Bernard Lamb]

3 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Agreed, but I think there's an opportunity for specific packs promoted as r-t-r "repair" items.

 

A supplier that services the "finescale" market need not supply only that segment, and extending its customer base would help ensure the continuity of supply to core customers.

 

John

 

 

But would a supplier to "the finescale market" want to branch out to a wider customer base?

Given the moaning about parts falling off and parts being damaged  plus the general lack of willingness among a large proportion og the public to actually do anything, I can see a load of trouble and extra work coming down the road. Given the group that demands a specific livery and even a specific number and the sub group who will not take a model out of the box in case they reduce its sell on value, then I wonder just how large the potential market actually is. 

 

A case study. One day a Salesman sold 170% of his target for the period. He came into the head office for a meeting with the Sales Director thinking he would get a good bonus and even possibly promotion. When he saw that the Managing Director was also present he felt good. The MD went for him and told him he had cost the company a lott of money and that not only would he not get a bonus but was very lucky to keep his job. Material had to purchased, to satisfy his orders, at a premium rate, more staff had to be employed at overtime rates , and a great deal of re-organizing had to be carried out. Sometimes things are not as simple as they at first seem.

Bernard

[davidw]

2 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said:

But would a supplier to "the finescale market" want to branch out to a wider customer base?

Given the moaning about parts falling off and parts being damaged  plus the general lack of willingness among a large proportion og the public to actually do anything, I can see a load of trouble and extra work coming down the road. Given the group that demands a specific livery and even a specific number and the sub group who will not take a model out of the box in case they reduce its sell on value, then I wonder just how large the potential market actually is. 

 

A case study. One day a Salesman sold 170% of his target for the period. He came into the head office for a meeting with the Sales Director thinking he would get a good bonus and even possibly promotion. When he saw that the Managing Director was also present he felt good. The MD went for him and told him he had cost the company a lott of money and that not only would he not get a bonus but was very lucky to keep his job. Material had to purchased, to satisfy his orders, at a premium rate, more staff had to be employed at overtime rates , and a great deal of re-organizing had to be carried out. Sometimes things are not as simple as they at first seem.

Bernard

I'm not sure whether I want to mark that as funny, informative or agree.....

[Dunsignalling]

Of course, the logical solution would be for the r-t-r manufacturers to tackle the issue at source, and replace the most fragile plastic detail in metal at the point of production.

 

The way prices are going, that might not actually push them up all that much further. 

 

John

Edited December 14, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Guest Simon A.C. Martin]

Thank you all for your help in identifying possible candidates for the RK coach.

 

This is one of my ongoing “build the full train” projects, intended to run on my Ganwick Curve layout when it’s in its new home and shed in the next year. 
 

The locomotive for the train is one of my usual second hand eBay purchases of a Railroad Flying Scotsman, which is in the process of being rebuilt to its 1968 spec by way of additional parts from Graeme King, the now defunct Eileen’s Emporium, spare parts I’ve picked up from shows, resin parts I made myself (smokebox door) and a 3D printed second tender from NIU models.

 

My intention is to have it painted by someone better than me, and weathered similarly! But I’m doing the bulk of the building.

 

I know this has an RTR basis, but hopefully it’s modelling enough that when its finished it will be thought of as more than just an RTR model.
 

 

 

 

 

There’s still a lot to do, which I hope to sort when I have my Christmas holiday, starting next week.

[polybear]

2 hours ago, Bernard Lamb said:

A case study. One day a Salesman sold 170% of his target for the period. He came into the head office for a meeting with the Sales Director thinking he would get a good bonus and even possibly promotion. When he saw that the Managing Director was also present he felt good. The MD went for him and told him he had cost the company a lott of money and that not only would he not get a bonus but was very lucky to keep his job. Material had to purchased, to satisfy his orders, at a premium rate, more staff had to be employed at overtime rates , and a great deal of re-organizing had to be carried out. Sometimes things are not as simple as they at first seem.

Bernard

 

The Boss's fault for not telling him that he should never sell more than "X".  But of course the Boss never sees it like that....

[Coach bogie]

8 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

The Boss's fault for not telling him that he should never sell more than "X".  But of course the Boss never sees it like that....

Disagree. Sales person should have checked with production to see if product could be produced/delivered. I do not know any sales people who would not check first.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Bucoops]

37 minutes ago, Coach bogie said:

Disagree. Sales person should have checked with production to see if product could be produced/delivered. I do not know any sales people who would not check first.

 

Mike Wiltshire

In an old job we had a salesman who had a very annoying habit of coming into the drawing office and announcing proudly he had sold a machine that could do xyz. At which we would all shout expletives and tell him to explain to the client that it couldn't be done.

Problem was he was the owners' son and was untouchable. Leaving that place was heavenly.

[Bernard Lamb]

47 minutes ago, Coach bogie said:

Disagree. Sales person should have checked with production to see if product could be produced/delivered. I do not know any sales people who would not check first.

 

Mike Wiltshire

You were very lucky.

I might have led things well of the topic of model railways, but there have been a few in the hobby who have bitten off more than they could chew in terms of commercial ventures.

Bernard

[Andy Hayter]

1 hour ago, Coach bogie said:

Disagree. Sales person should have checked with production to see if product could be produced/delivered. I do not know any sales people who would not check first.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

I think that may depend on the industry and the size of the operation.  We (a multinational) made sure that sales were kept well away from production.  It was the job of marketing to bridge the gaps between expectations and realities - in both directions.  

[robertcwp]

13 hours ago, Simon A.C. Martin said:

I write with a query, someone may know the answer!

 

In the 1968 non-stop run made by Flying Scotsman, the rake of BR Mk1 coaches is given as follows: BSK, FO, FO, RK, TSO, TSO, RMB.

 

Of these seven coaches, I have six made by Bachmann RTR (to be renumbered) and the seventh, the RK, is to be converted from another Bachmann Mk1 coach by way of using parts including pre-formed sides from Wizard models.

 

I believe the RK is this vehicle, after studying the BBC film of the non-stop run: https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/carriage/b21k/

 

 

The one thing which eludes me is: what should the carriage number be on the RK?

 

I have tried pausing the film, tried looking through books and photographs, even contemporary articles of the run, but nowhere can I find the exact carriage numbers for the types. So they will all be Eastern region numbered. But the RK is crucial to get as right as possible, and, I don't think (from limited reading) that there were that many of this coach on the eastern region? So the number we can surely pin down closer to the actual vehicle?

 

 

The kitchen car is a Diag 702 with B5 bogies. None carried Commonwealth bogies in BR service but those that survived long enough to gain blue/grey livery seem mostly to have had B5 bogies as replacements for their heavy-duty BR originals. Some did migrate to the Eastern mainly for use on specials although the Hook Continental had one for a time, I believe. For the FO, you need the Hornby model not the Bachmann one. Bachmann only did the Diag 71 FO (same body as the RFO) of which there were only three - all LMR. Hornby do the Diag 73, of which there were 128 spread across most regions.