Wright writes.....

[Lecorbusier]

From my perspective, there are two early railways I have found impressive ... don't know if they fall into this category or not.

 

The first was for me the seminal model railway of my youth in the 1970s ... that of Monsal and Millars Dale in O gauge, built by Dave White and others, which resided at Slaters in Matlock Bath accessed off their model shop. Unfortunately I have no pictures but I do have these 2 pdf articles from back in the day.

 

Railway Modeller-Monsaldale 1977.pdfRailway Modeller-Monsaldale Millersdale.pdf

 

Secondly I think the Madder Valley railway surely deserves a mention.

 

Edited September 12, 2018 by Lecorbusier

[petrovich]

I agree Jerry,

 

Whatever activity one gets involved with, there will be dross. More dross than quality, in the past and now. Railway modelling is no exception. 

 

But today, is it a different kind of 'dross' in my view. I keep coming back to this point, and it would be wrong to call the current RTR standards 'dross', but I really do get bored at seeing the same things on layouts and in the press; not just locos and rolling stock, but structures as well. Back in the Metropolitan Junction days, the dross in the press would probably be poor modelling (RTR stuff, for instance, would not feature except in its own separate - relegated? - section). And, some of those tatty buildings on Metropolitan Junction are ancient Biltezee and Superquick mouldering items. So, no 'rose-coloured specs' there. 

 

It's just that I appreciate the self-reliance of the modellers who made what they needed. There was no moaning about why such-and-such is/was not available - their work was unique. And, despite the overall raising of standards throughout the hobby, how many shows from years ago featured (so) many layouts which were populated by stuff straight from the box? 

 

Metropolitan Junction 08.jpg

 

Metropolitan Junction 09.jpg

 

Allowances must be made for the great age (in layout terms) of MJ, but how many times does one see a Billinton Tank, a Claughton and a round-top firebox Nelson on layouts at exhibitions these days? Rarely throughout history, I admit, but so refreshingly-different to see among the general (though not universal) 'mobile' catalogues of what the RTR boys offer us. 

 

Arun Quay 08.jpg

 

You mention Gordon Gravett. I don't care which period in the hobby's history one chooses, nothing has ever been any better than this! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Good Afternoon Tony

 

Firstly thank you for the hospitality shown by Mo and your good self on Saturday at Woking there were some interesting conversations to listen too and absorb at your stand. Secondly on my travels around the exhibition I found Metropolitan Junction in a state of malfunction ( a unit was derailed and a further set was requiring a finger assist to continue its circuit). This does spoil the enjoyment of watching what is a remarkable piece of engineering. There was also an abundance of "end to end" layouts most of which had very little activity going on, the operators mostly engaged in conversations with an audience of people they seemed to know.

Having said all that which gives the appearance that I did not enjoy the event I have to place plaudits in the direction of Arun Quay, Lower Shalford and Umbridge of which Arun Quays lighting and simple backscene made it stand out from all the displays.

On a side note "A Taste of Japan" made up of Kato stock and never ending circuits certainly kept the young ones attending enthralled and perhaps more of this sort of layout should be employed if we are to get the children interested in the hobby.

 

Enjoy Australia.......

 

Regards 

 

Peter

[Enterprisingwestern]

Anyway, I wonder what folk might make of Little Bytham in the 2080s?

 

The world ends in 2049 so I wouldn't too much Tony!

 

Mike.

[Tony Wright]

The world ends in 2049 so I wouldn't too much Tony!

 

Mike.

Does it, Mike?

 

I recall an amusing incident from my schooldays (about 1959, it would be) where there was a prediction that the world would end. On the 'penultimate' eve, our geography teacher set us homework for the morrow. My mates and I thought 'What's the point?', so didn't do it. Unfortunately for us, the world carried on, and we got the cane! 

 

Speaking of corporal punishment (or smacking children), I heard of a report today by some psychologists insisting that it should be universally banned. Now, I've no wish to turn this thread into a discussion about disciplining children, but only recently I've spoken with several (now ex-) teachers, who've got out because the standards of behaviour in some schools are so bad that their physical health was at risk, not to mention their mental state. 

 

In my schooldays, it would appear that flogging was on the curriculum. I wonder what detrimental effect it's had on my life? 

[jamie92208]

Does it, Mike?

 

I recall an amusing incident from my schooldays (about 1959, it would be) where there was a prediction that the world would end. On the 'penultimate' eve, our geography teacher set us homework for the morrow. My mates and I thought 'What's the point?', so didn't do it. Unfortunately for us, the world carried on, and we got the cane! 

 

Speaking of corporal punishment (or smacking children), I heard of a report today by some psychologists insisting that it should be universally banned. Now, I've no wish to turn this thread into a discussion about disciplining children, but only recently I've spoken with several (now ex-) teachers, who've got out because the standards of behaviour in some schools are so bad that their physical health was at risk, not to mention their mental state. 

 

In my schooldays, it would appear that flogging was on the curriculum. I wonder what detrimental effect it's had on my life? 

 

Early last year I went to an Old Boys event at my old school, Giggleswick. the village where I grew up.  After the event we had a traditional school meal in the dining hall with some of the current pupils.  When I described the variety of physical punishments that cold be doled out by prefects and staff they were appalled. These not only included the cane which was the ultimate below expulsion, but punishment drill which was given out in blocks of 15 or 30 minutes.   The two young ladies at out table said the most severe punishment that they got nowadays was the confiscation of the mobile phones.     However I must say that the whole atmosphere of the place seemed to have improved and the two young ladies were delightful ambassadors for the school.   There were no girls when I was there apart from a housemasters daughter and I won't go any further on that subject.

 

Jamie

[polybear]

It's what's known as "progress" Tony.  That's why we have kids taking & dealing drugs and stabbing each other.  Personally I also blame Video Games - the popular ones always seem to be either some form of fighting or driving games; the trouble is I think kids don't realise that when they've been killed or crashed n' burned they can't just press the reset button and start again in real life.....

[Lecorbusier]

Interestingly violent crime with knifes and gangs was worse in the 60s and 70s than it is now, and drugs were pretty off the scale compared to now. The running street battles between the Mods and Rockers etc not to mention the late 60s early 70s mass experimentation with drugs were pretty full on.

[90164]

Early last year I went to an Old Boys event at my old school, Giggleswick. the village where I grew up.  After the event we had a traditional school meal in the dining hall with some of the current pupils.  When I described the variety of physical punishments that cold be doled out by prefects and staff they were appalled. These not only included the cane which was the ultimate below expulsion, but punishment drill which was given out in blocks of 15 or 30 minutes.   The two young ladies at out table said the most severe punishment that they got nowadays was the confiscation of the mobile phones.     However I must say that the whole atmosphere of the place seemed to have improved and the two young ladies were delightful ambassadors for the school.   There were no girls when I was there apart from a housemasters daughter and I won't go any further on that subject.

 

Jamie

I attended a school run by the Christian Brothers. Most of the staff were not inclined to leave you wondering if you had displeased them and their weapon of choice was the strap. Teachers who didn't use the strap were regarded as fair game and their lessons were often mercilessly disrupted. When I went into teaching I worked at an Inner London school that used corporal punishment before it was banned. My experience was that the absence of corporal punishment actually improved discipline as it led to much better relations between staff and pupils.

 

Frank

[Bucoops]

I certainly wouldn't blame video games. I grew up with Doom (shooting, punching, chainsawing aliens); Duke Nukem (similar); Carmaggedon (driving game, points for running people over etc.); Counter strike (shooting game against other people).

 

Carmageddon was fantastic fun - especially when used with a "skin" - you could change the characters you had to run over. My particular favourites were teletubbies and spice girls.

 

To the best of my knowledge I've never aimed a car at someone or shot/punched/chainsawed anyone

 

Yes sometimes people will "act out" a video game but if that game weren't available their issue would have simply manifested itself in some other way.

[Clive Mortimore]

Many moons ago  teenagers were able to leave school at a younger age than now. I wonder if this has some bearing on the behavior of students. Those who don't want to learn are the disruptive ones normally, if they could see an early escape then would that improve the learning experience of those who wish to stay at school. 

 

Many people who left school early entered the work place and have done well and been out of trouble. Kids that today cannot leave school early tend to leave without good results and many with a bad reputation. Are we doing them any favors? 

[Lecorbusier]

Isn't it wonderful how Tony lobs a pebble into still waters and then watches as the ripples spread out.

Edited September 12, 2018 by Lecorbusier

[polybear]

Isn't it wonderful how Tony lobs a pebble into still waters and then watches as the ripples spread out.

 

Born Troublemaker.........

[PMP]

He’s probably got a video game high score on that one where you throw pebbles into a pool..

[westerner]

As an ex teacher, in an East End(London Borough of Newham) primary, It seemed to me and the rest of the staff it was often the parents who believed that their little "angels" could do no wrong. I kno w one (parent) who became a teacher and her attitude to her little boy and his behaviour changed radically, unfortunately several years too late. I was told my class, which had several of these parents who thought their kids could do no wrong, the story of when I was their age in about 1957 I had convinced my dad that I had been wrongly punished, his answer, " You don't come home and tell me you've been naughty and got away with it, so this punishment makes up for all the times you got away with it" My class were horrified, but the brighter ones did realise the point I was making.

I would like to add one of my worst behaved girls luckily in her late teens discovered Karate, the discipline of which turned her life around. In fact in the last general election she was a Tory (wrong Party, I obviously didn't teach her well) candidate.

Edited September 12, 2018 by westerner

[brack]

An elderly man my mam used to care for told me how if he'd been up to mischief and an adult had caught him, he'd have been given a clip round the ear. If the police heard, he'd be given a clip round the ear, and if his mam or dad had ever heard that he'd been given a clip by the policeman or another grown up, he'd not have been able to sit down for a little while.

These days you're on eggshells around parents who will take exception to the least thing you say about a child and fight their corner blindly, without pausing to see what actually happened (I once had a complaint raised against me from a parent for daring to call his son a "right pain" on the phone, I happily had him moved classes so as to avoid future clashes. Funnily enough that man later went to prison for bullying, intimation and fraud and once he was inside the son seemed much happier and better behaved).

Having said that, I'd rightly be up in arms if a stranger hit my child, but if they got told off the first thing to try and establish is were they in fact up to no good? if not, was there an honest misunderstanding? Apparently for some this just isn't a possibility. Fortunately my girl is an angel who just can't understand why some people do things they've been told not do and whyever anyone wouldn't want to learn or do their work.

There are exceptions - once I had to ring a parent to explain that her son had swallowed a drawing pin during a lesson, she had a reputation for being awkward, but I was somewhat taken aback by her response of "well, he is just an a***hole isn't he." a little while later I reflected on how sad it was that that should be a parent's first response.

[Manxcat]

 

Just as an afterthought - does anyone have any pictures to show of very old, influential layouts? 

 

Does this qualify, Tony? 

 

Just for a bit of fun lets see who recognises the layout and the modeller first, shall we?

 

 

 

 

[Manxcat]

Oops, I have no idea why the photo in my last post appears on its side. It is not saved on my laptop in that configuration. Try as I might to edit it to the correct orientation I have been unable to do so. Sorry.

 

Archie

[Lecorbusier]

[Tony Wright]

Interestingly violent crime with knifes and gangs was worse in the 60s and 70s than it is now, and drugs were pretty off the scale compared to now. The running street battles between the Mods and Rockers etc not to mention the late 60s early 70s mass experimentation with drugs were pretty full on.

I'd like to see the evidence for that assertion, Tim.

 

I seem to have read recently that the death rate from knife and gun crimes this year is higher in London than it is in New York. I know more crime is supposed to be recorded than in the past, but I'm not sure things have improved since the '60s and '70s. 

 

I know this thread is about model railways, so I'll keep my comments short. In my teaching days 1970-1994 (with a two year 'sabbatical' in the late-'80s because of mental ill health), for some of the time I was a union rep'. Interestingly, I was part of a group which set up a 'tunnel committee' enabling teachers to get out of teaching. Almost everyone who 'dug their way out' cited poor behaviour on the part of pupils and subsequent lack of control as the principal reason for 'escaping'. I finally walked out when my head said she'd had a complaint from a kid that 'Mr Wright had frightened him'. 'Children do not come to my school to be scared' she said. The little bleeder was very perceptive - I had, because he was intent on wrecking a lesson. I'd never come across him before (he was a first year, and it was September) but I threatened to do him serious harm (really, an empty threat) because he'd messed about, refused to comply with my instructions and then told me to 'F*ck off!' in front of the whole class. It's amazing how, out of sight, in the corridor, some little upstart loses his nerve when he's held by his neck, up against a wall by a really nasty bloke. He blubbed, apologised, slunk back into the classroom and that was that - or so I thought. Seriously, in how many other jobs is one expected to take verbal (and on occasions, physical) abuse from minors and be expected to just accept it? 

 

I read a report recently about the suicide rate being at an all time high among young men in prisons now. What an awful state of affairs. I wonder why? Could it be, and this is my speculating, I admit, that for 15 or more years they've been 'untouchable' throughout the educational systems, and when finally, as adults, they end up in jail, there's an horrific realisation that inside prison there is no 'political correctness'.  

 

Anyway, enough of my ramblings on this. Just to return to railway modelling (in education), I had several lads (it was always lads) get high marks in the GCSE Craft, Design and Technology exams, many of which were attained because they built small-scale, steam-outline model locos. I just took in some 4mm drawings, they bought the motor/gears/wheels and they scratch-built the locos from brass, even turning-up fittings. I recall a M&GNR 4-4-0T, a J52, a GWR Prairie, a Jinty and a GWR Pannier being built. That, however, was a long time ago.

 

I also ran night school courses in railway modelling - even longer ago. 

 

Regards,

 

An adept 'mole'!

Edited September 12, 2018 by Tony Wright

[The Johnster]

I'd suggest that the high suicide rate among young men in prisons is because their lives are, usually and not to put too fine a point on it, sh*t.  Their own culpability in this state of affairs varies, but it is my view that criminals indulge in criminal activities because their lives are sh*t and the only way they can 'level the playing field' is to steal from you so that your life is sh*t as well; they want to show you what it's like.  

 

When they are imprisoned, they have time to reflect on this state of affairs in a situation where peer pressure and the easy availability of drugs (spice being the current prevalent) reinforces the hopelessness and inevitability of their situation.  No wonder they want to off themselves; wouldn't you?

 

Bit OT though...

[Andy Hayter]

Does this qualify, Tony? 

 

Just for a bit of fun lets see who recognises the layout and the modeller first, shall we?

 

IMG_0832.JPG

 

IMG_0836.JPG

 

If I am right there will be one poster om here who will recognise it immediately - although he is the current owner and not the builder RPD.

[Northmoor]

post-14517-0-37858000-1536785051 (1).jpg

Peter Denny's Leighton Buzzard?  And the photo's taken in Alexandra Palace.

Edited September 12, 2018 by Northmoor

[PMP]

Layout LBTBG, other sandwiches are available.

 

Regrettably high rates of suicide amongst young men isn’t confined to either prison or poor social and economic conditions. Recent experience with a close colleague brought that brutally home on Father’s Day this year. Wholly unexpected and still no clues, logic or reason have come to light, a few months on.

 

On a lighter note and much plastic and wire later, here’s a RTR makeover of a Bachmann Class 25, one for Tony’s LB Diesel day perhaps ..

[Denbridge]

Does this qualify, Tony? 

 

Just for a bit of fun lets see who recognises the layout and the modeller first, shall we?

 

IMG_0832.JPG

 

IMG_0836.JPG

the wonderful Leighton buzzards by the late Peter Denny.

[Barry Ten]

Al, I doubt if the smokebox door is soldered in place -that is quite difficult to do without getting solder on the 'ring'. More likely it is glued in place and if so the best way to remove it is to push from the inside ie from inside the boiler with a piece of dowl or wood. You could try loosening the glue hold by putting it in hot (not boiling) water first.

 

Tony

 

Just as a follow-on to this, for anyone following the exciting developments, I managed to wedge a brush handle into the boiler, gave it some welly, and the smokebox door popped off in one piece. It was indeed glued. I've re-sited it so the straps and handrail are level, just as a force-fit for the time being. This results in the top knuckle thing being a minute or two past High Noon, but that's much less visually jarring to me than the straps, handrail, number plate etc being askew.

 

Al