Wright writes.....

[Lecorbusier]

Retford?

 

Retford 15 15A.jpg

 

Retford 15 19.jpg

 

Retford 28 10 11 03.jpg

 

Or Carlisle?

 

Carlisle 32B.jpg

 

Carlisle 35.jpg

 

Or Pelaw South?

 

South Pelaw 01.jpg

 

South Pelaw 15.jpg

 

South Pelaw 16.jpg

 

All of the above are in EM, and all of them have progressed considerably since I took these pictures. 

 

Finescale modelling on the grandest scale in my opinion. 

Most definitely ..what an achievement. As a straw poll it would be interesting to see what else people think might qualify .... both current and from the past.

 

Then I can go and look them all up - hours of fun.

 

My contribution on the 4mm front would be Little Bytham (someone had to say it - but you don't get a full feature in the Model Railway Journal unless you come up to scratch on the modelling front). I thought Semley by Martin Finney looked rather fine and it also looked quite sizeable. Come what may I am also a fan of The Dartmoor scene and the Vale scene at Pendon.

 

I could hazard a guess at a few more .....but am more interested in other's suggestions.

 

 ... I am pretty ignorant of 7mm with my only tentative contribution being the Monsaldale/Millersdale layout by Dave White and co. at Slaters in the 1970s/80s.

 

for 2mm I would have to mention Copenhagen Fields and perhaps also Totnes/Ashburton.

[CUTLER2579]

Tim,

I would have to agree on your 2mm choices and in 7mm Peover by John Ryan, Wallsea by Barrie Wells and Apethorne Junction by Keith Harrison are among my favourites. An Old favourite of mine was another by the "Retford Mob" High Dyke.

Regards,Derek.

[johndon]

As Tony has mentioned us, this is what South Pelaw looks like as of this weekend at the Newcastle Show.  38' * 17' in EM...

 

 

 

 

 

and with a special guest appearance on signalling duties of Cartman from South Park

 

[davidw]

Retford?

 

Retford 15 15A.jpg

 

Retford 15 19.jpg

 

Retford 28 10 11 03.jpg

 

Or Carlisle?

 

Carlisle 32B.jpg

 

Carlisle 35.jpg

 

Or Pelaw South?

 

South Pelaw 01.jpg

 

South Pelaw 15.jpg

 

South Pelaw 16.jpg

 

All of the above are in EM, and all of them have progressed considerably since I took these pictures.

 

Finescale modelling on the grandest scale in my opinion.

Thanks for posting those Tony. Really brings home the scope and vision behind those layouts. Grand and stunning! Edited November 12, 2018 by davidw

[Clive Mortimore]

Retford?

 

Retford 15 15A.jpg

 

Retford 15 19.jpg

 

Retford 28 10 11 03.jpg

 

Or Carlisle?

 

Carlisle 32B.jpg

 

Carlisle 35.jpg

 

Or Pelaw South?

 

South Pelaw 01.jpg

 

South Pelaw 15.jpg

 

South Pelaw 16.jpg

 

All of the above are in EM, and all of them have progressed considerably since I took these pictures. 

 

Finescale modelling on the grandest scale in my opinion. 

Hello Tony

 

Oh to have the time, space and money......us mere mortals at the other end of the wages scale can only dream.

 

That doesn't mean we cannot model something of a high standard and realism. May be the more mundane classes of multiple units and locos hauling run of the mill coaches/carriages/cars, complete with "typical" freight flows not those relating to limited industries is the way to go. A visit to Sheffield Exchange will show that the more mundane can be as much fun to operate as a layout full of exotica.

 

You can't get more mundane than a class 307 EMU.....I don't think anyone likes Southend as they only got 51 votes in Brian's poll.

[rowanj]

I had the great pleasure of watching " Pelaw" last weekend at Newcastle. It looked superb and ran virtually faultlessly.

However, like most shows these days, the Pelaw lads would have struggled to get any parts for future loco building, with the honourable exception of High-level Models. I couldn't even find a box of Milliput..

[Headstock]

Yes I thoroughly agree Andrew. I also looked at the results of the wish list with a mixture of baffled bewilderment and amusement. I'm picturing the flood of West Highland exhibition layouts featuring K4s and Hush-hushes pulling Gresley Quad-arts and that's only looking at the ex-LNER side. The truth of the matter for me is that I have the intention in the future of replacing the chassis of any RTR locos I have with my own as I simply can't get them, as converted to EM, to run as well as the chassis (plural - is that still chassis?) that I've made up myself - and if any of my kit or scratch-built chassis doesn't work well then it's up to me to redo it better. It's true that in the past, these lists have encouraged the likes of Hornby and Bachmann to produce some very good and useful models - the Gresley non-corridor coaches and the O4/1 come to mind - but the wish lists have what I call a 'Flying Scotsman' bias where the extra-ordinary and sensational is selected by the majority amongst the modelling populace who are generally less informed of the real railway . Blimey - I'm coming across like a bit of a snob here! Of course, to be fair, RTR has had a big impact on my layout. The RTR models on my layout save time for me to work on other more specific projects which (I hope) will themselves never be a target for RTR.

 

Good evening Clem,

 

first of all, apologies for not being able to speak to you at the recent Spalding show. Unfortunately, I had to keep my eye aligned down the length of the layout, in order to punish any transgressor who failed to operate a signal, Tough medicine was required, in order not to incurre the wrath of the'TW demon' should he emerge from his lair.

 

I've had a brief look at the poll/wishlist results this evening. My first impressions is that it is completely bonkers, there must be more categories than voters and it looks as if you can vote as many times as you like. Imagine sixty six million MP's in parliament, the horror. Now I understand why the RTR manufactures just raid the Parkside catalogue.

 

The 'wishlist west Highland' layout sounds fantastic. No doubt the Hush Hush and its quad arts would be preceded by a SE&CR nuclear flask train and immediately followed up by a train of warflats, chock to the brim with Transformers. I'm certain there must be a category for the Giraffe van in there somewhere, I shall be voting for that one next year (the DCC sound version). Seriously though, there must be an awful lot of work that goes into producing such a thing, but I can't help feel that a large part of it falls on deaf ears. The results across the board are rather strange when you try to tie them to a real world scenario.

[Tony Wright]

As Tony has mentioned us, this is what South Pelaw looks like as of this weekend at the Newcastle Show.  38' * 17' in EM...

 

 

 

 

 

and with a special guest appearance on signalling duties of Cartman from South Park

 

It's really come on; thanks for posting.

 

However, I think that's one of the most unnatural sky backscenes I've ever seen. Aerial perspective means it should lighten considerably towards the horizon.

 

Except in conditions of, say, an approaching thunderstorm, where the sun is still shining, or where there is snow on the ground, the sky is almost always the lightest tone. Tonal appreciation can be achieved by squinting at the images. By doing that, several elements in the views are lighter than the sky.  

 

Great modelling, otherwise.

Edited November 12, 2018 by Tony Wright

[Manxcat]

Might I venture to suggest that when the Larbert layout currently under construction by the fine gentlemen of the Scottish Region Study Group reaches the stage where it can be exhibited, in a couple of years or so, it will rank amongst the best in the country. 

 

Vitalspark has sent me photos of the progress on that 45 foot endeavour and even the hand built trackwork takes my breath away.

 

Perhaps he might post one or two here.

[MikeTrice]

However, I think that's one of the most unnatural sky backscenes I've ever seen. Aerial perspective means it should lighten considerably towards the horizon.

 

Except in conditions of, say, an approaching thunderstorm, where the sun is still shining, or where there is snow on the ground, the sky is almost always the lightest tone. Tonal appreciation can be achieved by squinting at the images. By doing that, several elements in the views are lighter than the sky. 

Interesting comment. Something I have become very aware of is how muted the colours of Little Bytham are (almost pastel) and I find it looks very natural. I was going to ask you if this was a deliberate ploy and I guess from your comments that the answer is yes.

[Barry Ten]

I have to agree that the backscene on Pelaw jars as it stands and rather draws the eye away from the excellent foreground; I never remember seeing such Mediterranean skies when I lived in the North East. I would suggest it would benefit from a toning-down with an airbrush or a pale glaze applied with a wide brush.

[Northmoor]

So, why are people not voting for Steel Panel 5-sets or Thompson Sleepers?

 

Could it be that most of what we see in books and mags etc is three-quarter views of locos? And did voters vote for Hush Hush because they have seen it on the exhibition circuit? Doesn't it stand out in Tony's photos?

1. Because most "railway" enthusiasts are almost totally, locomotive enthusiasts.

2. I would suggest that it isn't just most material, it's about 90% of all published photographs.  It is quite hard to find out about train formations and almost impossible to find out about period trackside features.

3. Yes, absolutely having a good model of a Hush-Hush in a magazine will promote sales, but it would be a poor seller because as Sir says, once you've got one.....  People do copy other's layouts and features, the magazines are full of identikit layouts, which is one of the main reasons I now rarely buy modelling magazines but am an avid reader of RMWeb, because I have learned infinitely more from it.

 

A quick example of "copying" - there was a super OO layout a few years ago of a steelworks (can't remember the name).  They had used an old Lima HO Torpedo car, suitably repainted to disguise its origins.  Before those articles, I used to see these wagons at swapmeets going for a few quid.  I almost bought one but only of curiosity, as I cannot foresee having a suitable layout for it.  A few months after the layout appeared, those wagons were priced at £10-15.  There is no reason for that other than a massive and sudden increase in demand.

[Clive Mortimore]

1. Because most "railway" enthusiasts are almost totally, locomotive enthusiasts.

2. I would suggest that it isn't just most material, it's about 90% of all published photographs.  It is quite hard to find out about train formations and almost impossible to find out about period trackside features.

3. Yes, absolutely having a good model of a Hush-Hush in a magazine will promote sales, but it would be a poor seller because as Sir says, once you've got one.....  People do copy other's layouts and features, the magazines are full of identikit layouts, which is one of the main reasons I now rarely buy modelling magazines but am an avid reader of RMWeb, because I have learned infinitely more from it.

 

A quick example of "copying" - there was a super OO layout a few years ago of a steelworks (can't remember the name).  They had used an old Lima HO Torpedo car, suitably repainted to disguise its origins.  Before those articles, I used to see these wagons at swapmeets going for a few quid.  I almost bought one but only of curiosity, as I cannot foresee having a suitable layout for it.  A few months after the layout appeared, those wagons were priced at £10-15.  There is no reason for that other than a massive and sudden increase in demand.

Hi

 

I was exhibiting Hanging Hill and was accused of copying the guy who built Pig Lane.

[Tony Wright]

I'd agree with all the choices suggested so far about 'outstanding' layouts...............

 

 

 

I think Pendon would be number one on many lists.

 

 

And Wallsea, by Barry Walls in O Gauge was/still is certainly inspirational.

 

 

I've seen nothing better in N Gauge than John Birkett Smith's Totnes. 

 

 

And in 2mm finescale there's nothing to beat Copenhagen Fields. 

 

 

 

John Ryan's Over Peover in O Gauge is certainly impressive - and huge. Dry stone walls as a boundary alongside the ECML, though?

 

 

Equally impressive is Pete Waterman's Leamington, also in O Gauge (though I wish lamps had been fitted).

 

 

Western View was a magnificent stage for many superb O Gauge locos. 

 

 

And, Kensington Addison Road is a modern classic in 7mm.

 

I hesitate to post the following two pictures, especially in such exalted company as the above, but LB was mentioned in despatches (and I'm delighted it was good enough to feature in the MRJ). More work has been completed since these pictures were taken.

 

 

 

At least it's an actual prototype, which one or two of the others are not. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi

 

I was exhibiting Hanging Hill and was accused of copying the guy who built Pig Lane.

But I have never been accused of copying British Railways.

[Tony Wright]

Interesting comment. Something I have become very aware of is how muted the colours of Little Bytham are (almost pastel) and I find it looks very natural. I was going to ask you if this was a deliberate ploy and I guess from your comments that the answer is yes.

Thanks Mike,

 

The answer is 'yes'. 

 

If nothing else, art training helps one appreciate tints, tones and hues. 

 

Unless one puts a mirror on the ground, on a cloudless summer day, the sky is never as blue as folk might like to paint it on a backscene. 

[Lecorbusier]

 Unless one puts a mirror on the ground, on a cloudless summer day, the sky is never as blue as folk might like to paint it on a backscene. 

 

Paul Bambrick at Martin Finney's Semley

Edited November 12, 2018 by Lecorbusier

[Andy Hayter]

For those who express surprise about the poll results, I would suggest a little introspection. Looking at Tony’s pictures of the front and fiddle side of th3 layout, I see many Pacifics but relatively few day to day humble goods 0-6-0s. Tony please do not take this as a personal attack. I use you as one of the best in class to demonstrate the issue. I know my efforts are even more skewed towards the elegant rather than the mundane.

 

I suggest that most of us have an imbalanced roster of stock and motive power, but why not. It is after all our layouts.

[Enterprisingwestern]

Hi

 

I was exhibiting Hanging Hill and was accused of copying the guy who built Pig Lane.

 

I was once accused of copying a guy who had 5 thumbs and modelled whilst wearing boxing gloves.

Can't argue with facts.

 

Mike.

[grahame]

I was once accused of copying a guy who had 5 thumbs and modelled whilst wearing boxing gloves.

 

 

Hey, steady on. That sounds like me.

 

G.

[MikeTrice]

The accuser or the guy with 5 thumbs etc?

[grahame]

The accuser or the guy with 5 thumbs etc?

The 'etc'.

 

G

[APOLLO]

Tony - the sky is always like that in sunny Wigan !!!!

 

 

I've just had an interesting though occasionally frustrating afternoon cleaning track, wheels etc up in the loft. I've got several old locos running that have not seen one electron for many years - some just ran superb just placed on the track, some needed lubrication wheel cleaning etc and a couple are simply thrutching demics !!.

 

Hornby Dubblo and Lima are like cockroaches - you can't kill them, they always scurry away !!! Early Tri-ang (open motor) usually run but boy are they noisy, Early Mainline Replica and Airfix are so-so - some are fine, others need further investigation, and some are off to Central Wagon for the torch !! (off to the right behind Springs Branch shed in the above view).

 

Some old rolling stock ran awful, wagons mainly, derailing at the most awkward places and derailing other passing trains - stand on a stool and stretch out to re-rail etc - not good for my back & old bones !! That stock is for the chop also. 

 

I'm going to do a Beeching - I've identified several bits of running lines & pointwork I never use - so track rationalisation will come soon.

 

Brit15

[Headstock]

G

 

Hello Andrew

 

Thanks for writing.

 

Indeed, you didn't refer specifically to our Poll - and neither did we specifically refer to your comment, only that we would refute any comment about it being ill-informed. At present, we are only aware of a couple of wishlists running on RMweb (one on GWR Toplights and two on Industrials). We are not aware of any similar ones to ours anywhere.

 

We concede entirely that any LNER Locos & Carriages Poll conducted via this thread would have a different result to ours for fully understandable reasons.

 

As noted, our Poll is for modellers and collectors (and Tony has just added a post on that topic). I posted the 5-year reports to show the consistency of that voter audience.

 

Why did we start out with the (part) intention of 'education'? Because we appreciated from our own 500+ years of modelling experience that many weren't able to 'join the dots' of stock with locos. Clearly, we are failing to get the message across! So, why are people not voting for Steel Panel 5-sets or Thompson Sleepers?

 

Could it be that most of what we see in books and mags etc is three-quarter views of locos? And did voters vote for Hush Hush because they have seen it on the exhibition circuit? Doesn't it stand out in Tony's photos?

 

May I PM you with our Guide text from Hush Hush and a couple of your choices of PCCS? This will give you an idea of our 'outline' approach. We do have to be careful of showing any bias to any particular item, but - for example - within the A2/1, A2/2 and A2/3 texts, we note that they are: Essential to complete the ECML express loco line up.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)

 

Good evening Brian,

not an easy post to reply to, as you don't really have any control over how people vote. And it is the voting that I am not even on the same planet with. Although, there seems to me that there are far too many categories to evaluate what it all means, apart from give people enough votes and a long enough list and people will use it.

Some of the categories seem to be unbelievably vague and all encompassing, while others deal with a single wagon, for example, the most popular wagon category is anything from the entire wagon fleet of the LBSC!  Yet you can wander from RTR steam layout to RTR steam layout at an exhibition and be lucky to see anything representing the LMS wagon fleet. The largest wagon fleet in the country up until nationalisation. Erased from history by railway modellers in just twenty years.

I don't have a problem with what you or your colleagues are doing, after all it doesn't effect me. If you wish to send me some examples of your guide text I would be perfectly happy to receive it, though I wouldn't expect to have any problems with the information there in.

If I have a bug bear it is how this translates into the voting, but  you can't go around telling people how to vote, and as I have already noted, it doesn't effect my modelling anyway. Thank goodness that nobody votes on what kits may become available to purchase, modelling life would be hell.

[Tony Wright]

For those who express surprise about the poll results, I would suggest a little introspection. Looking at Tony’s pictures of the front and fiddle side of th3 layout, I see many Pacifics but relatively few day to day humble goods 0-6-0s. Tony please do not take this as a personal attack. I use you as one of the best in class to demonstrate the issue. I know my efforts are even more skewed towards the elegant rather than the mundane.

 

I suggest that most of us have an imbalanced roster of stock and motive power, but why not. It is after all our layouts.

Andy,

 

We've used the Working Timetable and the Public Timetable for the summer of 1958 to give us the trains for LB, and guess what? Almost every train is long-distance, both passenger and freight. Photographic evidence also shows that even the humble stoppers were often hauled by RA9 motive power, either as a filling-in turn or as a running-in job. 

 

Brian Bailey and Peter Coster once published a log in BRILL of a day's observations between Peterborough and Grantham in the early summer of 1959 (prior to LB's station closure). Admittedly, that was a summer Saturday, but, from memory, I think they only noted one K3, a couple of B1s and a J6 (plus the N5 on the Stamford branch at Essendine). Everything else was either a Pacific or a V2 - scores of them. Easy to understand why, I suppose. Counting the V2s (which were heavier than a King), the ER, NER and ScR had nearly 400 RA9 big locos. 

 

I don't think it's introspection, it's retrospection. It's how it was.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.