Wright writes.....

[Lecorbusier]

I saw Sidmouth several times during the day on Sunday, The running was faultless and I think it an exceptional layout.

 

It picked up the William McAlpine trophy as well as the best 4mm layout award, both well deserved. 

Thanks for the feedback Dave,

 

I am pleased that the running (when you watched it) appears to have been sorted. I really enjoyed the layout when i saw it at scaleforum last year and don't recall any gremlins, but I know Tony found the layout running exasperating when he watched it (can't remember when?).

 

I still think P4 layouts take longer than other 4mm offerings to get all sorted on the exhibition circuit but unfortunately  I believe this is because many problems only manifest out on the road. I suppose there is no substitute for experience built up over time in these matters.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Lecorbusier

[96701]

Great news,

 

DoG has sold for £200.00.

 

Thanks Al.

Thanks indeed. My hope is that DoG will run again as much and as hard as possible. 18 kit built bogies shows what a mechanism it has inside it. No wonder Geoff looked smug when he demonstrated it to me.

[Tony Wright]

Thanks indeed. My hope is that DoG will run again as much and as hard as possible. 18 kit built bogies shows what a mechanism it has inside it. No wonder Geoff looked smug when he demonstrated it to me.

I've tried her on 25, Phil,

 

But then the train wants to 'implode' on curves. Apart from my elder son's two-motored Deltic, nothing I have is as powerful as Geoff's DoG!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

Thanks for the feedback Dave,

 

I am pleased that the running (when you watched it) appears to have been sorted. I really enjoyed the layout when i saw it at scaleforum last year and don't recall any gremlins, but I know Tony found the layout running exasperating when he watched it (can't remember when?).

 

I still think P4 layouts take longer than other 4mm offerings to get all sorted on the exhibition circuit but unfortunately  I believe this is because many problems only manifest out on the road. I suppose there is no substitute for experience built up over time in these matters.

Thanks Tim,

 

I agree that Sidmouth is an exceptional layout (visually), but, having watched it three times (not at Warley), I've never been impressed by the running. Far too many derailments for me. Though crude in comparison (I admit), if I have one derailment on LB in any running session (over two hours, with 51 train movements), that's one too many. 

 

I'm one of the judges at the annual CMRA exhibition at Stevenage, and one of the reasons Sidmouth was precluded from winning was the poor running. Interestingly, another P4 layout won - it ran perfectly. The cup I'm involved with is awarded for scenic excellence, so Sidmouth was high on the list for that. However, running is taken into consideration as well, because it's all about 'realism', and real trains don't fall off all over the place. 

 

If, as Crispy (Dave) Bacon has suggested, it ran faultlessly at Warley, then Richard and his team are to be congratulated on sorting out the running. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

Good evening Tony,

 

It was good to meet you and Mo early on in the Warley show on Saturday morning. Thank you for such a lovely chat. We managed to cover football, psychology and smoke deflectors on Britannias. It all added up to a healthy dose of inspiration.

 

You did ask that I made myself known on here, and said that in case you didn't remember me, I was the bloke who sounded like he came from the depths of Wolverhampton.

 

Thanks again.

I remember you well, John,

 

A fellow teacher. It was really good to meet you and chat, and, when you do get the chance, come over and see LB.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[96701]

I've tried her on 25, Phil,

 

But then the train wants to 'implode' on curves. Apart from my elder son's two-motored Deltic, nothing I have is as powerful as Geoff's DoG!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

It has one of these in it:

https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/locomotive/coreless-motor-and-crossed-helical-gearbox-mgb1/

 

He gave the MGB moniker because he had a red one in his garage.

[mark axlecounter]

Just use a Poppys chassis jig...it really helps you to get frames square and true!

 

Baz

I use the Poppy jig, and I have built over 20 loco chassis with it from Alan Gibson, Djh, London Road to name a few.

I'm just building another comet caprotti black 5 (number 4) and before I got the poppy jig I struggled getting the chassis right.

I spoke to you Tony at Wigan about 2 years ago about this jig and you spoke very highly of it so thank you Tony for the help and advise you gave me at Wigan and at Bristol this year.

Here is a pic of the jig with the comet chassis on.

 

 

Mark

[mark axlecounter]

I got one of them Motor/gearboxes when Geoff first brought them out to go in my brit ( Comet chassis on a Hornby body) and it runs smooth and can pull a house down.  

 

Mark

Edited November 27, 2018 by mark axlecounter

[StephenB]

It was good to see that Sidmouth’s running had been massively improved over previous public outings.

 

Stephen

[Clearwater]

With two small boys, I found Sidmouth too high to view effectively. In contrast, as someone pointed out on the Warley thread, small children are at platform height on Lime Street. Two year old Stephen kept describing Lime St as “wow”. Slightly older Edward expressed disappointment that Grantham wasn’t there this year.

 

David

[Lecorbusier]

.... Sidmouth is an exceptional layout (visually), but, having watched it three times (not at Warley), I've never been impressed by the running. Far too many derailments for me. 

I remembered your comments Tony, but was more interested in where the layout was at now. The fact that a potential solution had been found was mentioned in the Scalefour News a while back.

Edited November 27, 2018 by Lecorbusier

[Tony Wright]

I remembered your comments Tony, but was more interested in where the layout was know. The fact that a potential solution had been found was mentioned in the Scalefour News a while back.

Thanks Tim,

 

I'm really pleased the running has been sorted out (I really am). 

 

Having watched it with great disappointment at Railex a year or two ago (where a small 2-6-2T couldn't negotiate the straight road through a couple of points with its two carriages, without falling off, at slow speed!), and even more sadness at Stevenage where, if anything, the running had deteriorated, to have the derailment problems sorted out must be a great relief for the crew.

 

As for comments about 'not enough happening' (on any layout), as long as this is not because of the operators blathering away to each other, or being distracted (mobile phones?), or not concentrating or being inexperienced, then that's the nature of the railway being represented. If it's a rural backwater (especially a terminus), then what do folk expect? Perhaps they'd be better off 'admiring' suspended sky railways, where, if things ever did derail, there'll be a nice soft landing for them! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

[Killybegs]

P4 exhibition layouts need a lot of TLC. When I was exhibiting Clinkerford, I checked the back to back settings on all rolling stocks as well as the alignment of all AJ couplings before every show. The layout was set up at home a couple of days before hand to make sure there were no problems with track or electrics. Each board had its own totally enclosing cover (there were a lot of trees to protect). The boards were stacked in a box van trailer (very bouncy) so were strapped together with thick foam rubber between each board and under the bottom boards. We had some very rough crossings of the Irish Sea but nothing ever shifted. Stock was carried in the car in a purpose built foam lined case. I had good operators who treated the rolling stock with respect and, if operated according to 'The Rules', no stock needed manhandling once it had been placed on the layout. 

 

This didn't happen in the early days but lessons were quickly learnt. If you think bad running is frustrating for punters, imagine what it is like for the owner or operators.

[D.Platt]

Morning Tony,

 

You asked for A2s , this is the last kit my late brother made it’s a modified DJH kit like all his locos runs brilliantly, he wouldn’t let me spray his finished work , guess he thought it took away his complete ownership!

I’ve finished my B16 and will post it here later.

 

Dennis

[Clive Mortimore]

P4 exhibition layouts need a lot of TLC. When I was exhibiting Clinkerford, I checked the back to back settings on all rolling stocks as well as the alignment of all AJ couplings before every show. The layout was set up at home a couple of days before hand to make sure there were no problems with track or electrics. Each board had its own totally enclosing cover (there were a lot of trees to protect). The boards were stacked in a box van trailer (very bouncy) so were strapped together with thick foam rubber between each board and under the bottom boards. We had some very rough crossings of the Irish Sea but nothing ever shifted. Stock was carried in the car in a purpose built foam lined case. I had good operators who treated the rolling stock with respect and, if operated according to 'The Rules', no stock needed manhandling once it had been placed on the layout. 

 

This didn't happen in the early days but lessons were quickly learnt. If you think bad running is frustrating for punters, imagine what it is like for the owner or operators.

Hi John

 

That is applicable to all scales and gauges. I think the worse case is when operating someone elses layout and the stock keeps falling off and they don't seem bothered but you are. It is a case of trying to weed out the worse offenders and not run them. On day two get to the layout before the owner and do some repairs.

[Tony Wright]

P4 exhibition layouts need a lot of TLC. When I was exhibiting Clinkerford, I checked the back to back settings on all rolling stocks as well as the alignment of all AJ couplings before every show. The layout was set up at home a couple of days before hand to make sure there were no problems with track or electrics. Each board had its own totally enclosing cover (there were a lot of trees to protect). The boards were stacked in a box van trailer (very bouncy) so were strapped together with thick foam rubber between each board and under the bottom boards. We had some very rough crossings of the Irish Sea but nothing ever shifted. Stock was carried in the car in a purpose built foam lined case. I had good operators who treated the rolling stock with respect and, if operated according to 'The Rules', no stock needed manhandling once it had been placed on the layout. 

 

This didn't happen in the early days but lessons were quickly learnt. If you think bad running is frustrating for punters, imagine what it is like for the owner or operators.

Thanks John,

 

It is intensely frustrating for punters and operators alike when poor running occurs. When I used to go out with Stoke Summit and Charwelton, I would go ballistic if things weren't working as they should, especially if operators weren't concentrating. 

 

However, is every layout operator as 'fussy'. At a show earlier this year, one layout just wasn't working at all. Now, even the best (which this wasn't) can fail under exhibition conditions, but what got me was the pre-prepared, pre-printed sign stating that it wasn't working. Surely a hand-written one would have been more-convincing? 

 

As for the previously-mention P4 layout where things (used to) fall off, when I last saw it, the builder just seem to accept derailments and, with a smile, just walked round to the front and put things back on. I'd have been boiling with rage by then.

 

You're right about frustrations with regard to poor running. It's my immense privilege to entertain so many guests who come to see Little Bytham. I would derive no pleasure at all if I were apologising all the time to them because of poor running (I usually have to apologise for my operating incompetence!) and because of constant interruptions to put stock back on or attend to failures. Yet, I've seen (far too) many layouts where that seems to be the accepted thing. Each to their own, I suppose. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Lecorbusier]

As for the previously-mention P4 layout where things (used to) fall off, when I last saw it, the builder just seem to accept derailments and, with a smile, just walked round to the front and put things back on. I'd have been boiling with rage by then.

Speaking hypothetically as I have no connection with Sidmouth and do not know the operator/owner, each person will deal with the stress and frustration of such happenings in the full glare of the public gaze in differing ways .... but the stress and frustration may well be no less. Sincere efforts to remedy the problem are perhaps the true measure of how much somebody cares ... and in the meantime it might be deemed more problematic to pull the layout from already committed to show bookings than in the interim finding a way of coping with the embarrassment and keeping fingers crossed for understanding.

 

...a possible alternative reading? I would be very surprised given the excellence of the modelling on Sidmouth if the owner was anything but extremely frustrated and concerned by the performance you describe.

Edited November 27, 2018 by Lecorbusier

[jwealleans]

It also has to be said, for the benefit of those who have never exhibited a layout, that the temperature in a hall can have remarkable (and remarkably destructive) effects on the running of a layout. The most extreme example I can recall was Thurston at the Doncaster show when it was in the showground at Harrogate. Sometime into the afternoon, I think on the Saturday, the heating failed. The temperature plummeted, the timber reacted, joints moved and trains started to fall off. We stopped running and adjusted the worst of the joints - whereupon the heating burst back into life, the temperature rose and the opposite warping and movement occurred. I walked away when the blowers then all went off again as I was so frustrated with the whole thing. I'm sure I recall Steve Grantham telling me he was having running problems and his layout was all on one board.

 

The only layout I've been involved with which doesn't suffer in this way is Grantham , because of the fishplates at every joint. They bring their own issues, of course, but up to now they've got us round that one.

 

Layouts such as Tony's which never leave home are in the advantageous position of being (usually) within a more consistent temperature range and not having joints which are frequently - or ever - separated. Add the immaculately laid track on LB and you're giving yourself as good a chance of problem-free running as possible.

[Tony Wright]

Speaking hypothetically as I have no connection with Sidmouth and do not know the operator/owner, each person will deal with the stress and frustration of such happenings in the full glare of the public gaze in differing ways .... but the stress and frustration may well be no less. Sincere efforts to remedy the problem are perhaps the true measure of how much somebody cares ... and in the meantime it might be deemed more problematic to pull the layout from already committed to show bookings than in the interim finding a way of coping with the embarrassment and keeping fingers crossed for understanding.

 

...a possible alternative reading? I would be very surprised given the excellence of the modelling on Sidmouth if the owner was anything but extremely frustrated and concerned by the performance you describe.

I'm not saying that the owner was not concerned, Tim,

 

It's just that he handled the situation in a very different way from me. Perhaps that's why, assuming I could build in P4 (which I don't think I'm skilled enough to do), the incidences of derailments would be too much for me to tolerate. That said, and I hope it's fully understood, the finer gauges don't have a 'monopoly' on poor running. At last year's Spalding show, two 4mm layouts were back-to-back. One was in P4, the other in OO. One ran perfectly (St. Merryn), the other didn't (can't remember its name). St. Merryn is built in P4! 

 

As to what one is prepared to accept (not just running), with Little Bytham nearing completion after a decade's work by a highly-skilled team, I thought I'd take some current pictures.

 

 

Prior to the introduction of the DJH A1 kit, I made my Peppercorn 6' 8" Pacifics by modifying Wills A2s and making scratch-built chassis for them. Thus, 60149 is getting on a bit now, but still going strong. It's all my work as well. With the point rodding heading south, and all the buildings complete now, I think the 'open' feel of the place has been caught reasonably well.

 

 

 

As is well-known, fitting a prototype location like LB (even though, in railway station terms, it's small) into anything less than 32' would not have been acceptable to me. In that way, the 'Flying Scotsman' has room to breath. 

 

 

The completed goods yard has space to breath as well.

 

 

I hope the very-fast nature of this bit of the ECML has been caught as well. Here, 60146 PEREGRINE (Crownline/Wright/Haynes) dashes south through the station on an Up express. The distant girder bridge will be replaced soon. 

 

 

 

 

It's a privilege to have some locomotives built by dear friends. In this case we see three shots of Tony Geary's Little Engines' O4 on an Up minerals. The juxtaposition of the various elements in these scenes seem to have come together well enough. 

 

Does it all run? May I let visitors be the judges on that? 

Edited November 27, 2018 by Tony Wright

[Killybegs]

The worst we had was in a sports hall that had been used all week for a basketball tournament. There was so much rubber dust in the air that everyone's locos developed traction tyres but couldn't pick up any power. Even the 7mm boys were suffering.

[Chamby]

The worst we had was in a sports hall that had been used all week for a basketball tournament. There was so much rubber dust in the air that everyone's locos developed traction tyres but couldn't pick up any power. Even the 7mm boys were suffering.

I agree, sports halls are Not the best venues for setting up a level layout. Worst are the ones with springy floors, where every moving person will make the floor flex... and the layout, no matter how well you try and level it at the beginning of the day!

[D.Platt]

Hi Tony

Thanks to your post on LB and seeing your B16s I had another attempt to complete my B16/3 kit which unbelievably I started in 1980 ,I just couldn't get it to go round the layout I had at that time , I have changed the chassis round since my Oct post and I'm now pleased with the rear axle center being in line with the front of the cab. Ready for painting .

 

Ex works

 

finished it , she has  had a good test run ,front bogie I did it like I planned, like a RTR loco ,the link arm caused a lot of problems last time!

A few pages back you asked about an A2/1being on a wish list , I wonder where a B16/3 is on any list ? I would like a B16/1 !! so maybe another kit to buy. 

Dennis

[D.Platt]

[Clive Mortimore]

It also has to be said, for the benefit of those who have never exhibited a layout, that the temperature in a hall can have remarkable (and remarkably destructive) effects on the running of a layout. The most extreme example I can recall was Thurston at the Doncaster show when it was in the showground at Harrogate. Sometime into the afternoon, I think on the Saturday, the heating failed. The temperature plummeted, the timber reacted, joints moved and trains started to fall off. We stopped running and adjusted the worst of the joints - whereupon the heating burst back into life, the temperature rose and the opposite warping and movement occurred. I walked away when the blowers then all went off again as I was so frustrated with the whole thing. I'm sure I recall Steve Grantham telling me he was having running problems and his layout was all on one board.

 

The only layout I've been involved with which doesn't suffer in this way is Grantham , because of the fishplates at every joint. They bring their own issues, of course, but up to now they've got us round that one.

 

Layouts such as Tony's which never leave home are in the advantageous position of being (usually) within a more consistent temperature range and not having joints which are frequently - or ever - separated. Add the immaculately laid track on LB and you're giving yourself as good a chance of problem-free running as possible.

Hi Jonathan

 

Many years ago when I had Hanging Hill at Ally Pally it started to play up a wee bit but was still running. My mate's layout nearby was also giving him a bit of gyp. We then noticed that other layouts had almost stopped working. The temperature was abnormally high for the time of year so combined with the early morning heating and all the bodies in the hall most layouts had suffered extraordinary rail expansion. A few years later the same weekend it snowed....love the British weather.

 

Did you notice at the NEC this weekend the temperature drop when the majority of the punters left on Saturday, it was quite noticeable where we were in the naughty corner with the micro layouts. 

[96701]

Thanks Tim,

 

I'm really pleased the running has been sorted out (I really am). 

 

Having watched it with great disappointment at Railex a year or two ago (where a small 2-6-2T couldn't negotiate the straight road through a couple of points with its two carriages, without falling off, at slow speed!), and even more sadness at Stevenage where, if anything, the running had deteriorated, to have the derailment problems sorted out must be a great relief for the crew.

 

As for comments about 'not enough happening' (on any layout), as long as this is not because of the operators blathering away to each other, or being distracted (mobile phones?), or not concentrating or being inexperienced, then that's the nature of the railway being represented. If it's a rural backwater (especially a terminus), then what do folk expect? Perhaps they'd be better off 'admiring' suspended sky railways, where, if things ever did derail, there'll be a nice soft landing for them! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

I once had the pleasure of helping to operate a layout at Peterborough one year. 4 of us had a great time operating the layout which could be operated by 3, so we took it in turns to operate the fiddle yard to feed trains to the front of house, operate the front of house, and do a bit of shunting. Sunday came with 2 new operators, friends of the owner. Now there are three people behind the scenes, I'm out front like a lemon waiting for one of three chattering people to send me a train, and watching people wandering off after giving me a dirty look for not playing trains!