Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

Hello Tony

 

For 'completeness', below is how the A2/1, A2/2 and A2/3 have fared in The Wishlist Polls since 2013 (we didn't run in 2017). We split the results up into roughly equal segments for ease of comparison across the years (High, Middle and Low Polling). None were in The Top 50.

 

A2/1

2013 - Low

2014 - Low

2015 - Low

2016 - Middle

2018 - Middle - but now at the upper end

 

A2/2

2013 - Middle

2014 - Middle

2015 - Middle

2016 - Middle

2018 - High - but at the lower end

 

A2/3

2013 - Middle

2014 - Middle - but at the upper end

2015 - Middle - but still at the upper end

2016 - High - but towards the lower end

2018 - High - but has moved up towards the middle of the segment

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)

Thanks Brian,

 

I think we can discount the A2/1 as a possibility for RTR in the future. Though it looks similar to an A2/3, its different wheelbase (shorter), smaller boiler, different height of horizontal handrails (on the deflectors as well) and 'V'-fronted cab militate against it. That's why DJH didn't introduce it in their kit range, though Crownline/PDK did. 

 

Interestingly, according to the poll, the A2/3 seems to be growing in popularity (?). Is it because of the names? If one discounts the titular first one, and the last, their names are rather splendid. The likes of DANTE at the head of a heavy train really sounds good. 

 

As for the A2/2, as DJH has done, the four latterly fitted with Thompson/Peppercorn boilers could be made with a few alterations from the basic A2/3 form.

 

And, we can forget Thompson's GREAT NORTHERN as being on any RTR manufacturer's radar! 

 

Who knows? 

 

Certainly, if an RTR Thompson Pacific arrives RTR, we can say goodbye to many current kits.................................Which, to me, is a real shame for those who build rather than buy. 

 

A2/1s, as mentioned, should be safe, though. 

 

 

This is my 42-year old Jamieson hand-cut A2/1, still going strong as 60508 DUKE OF ROTHESAY. This was the only A2/1 I saw - every day when I was 'spotting at Retford.

 

 

Because 60508 was the 'English' member of the four 'orphans of the storm', it's probably had more models built of it. This is one built/painted by John Houlden (I think), from a PDK kit - now the property of Geoff West. 

 

 

 

David West has certainly had a go at one, from the same source. 

 

 

Just out of interest, I built a Nu-Cast A2/1, in the form of Scottish-allocated 60510 ROBERT THE BRUCE. Ian Rathbone painted it. It's justification on LB? On a running-in turn.

 

 

One A2/2 type probably 'safe' from RTR duplication is the likes of 60503/4, which retained their original four-segment boilers to the end. I built this from a Crownline kit, and Ian Rathbone painted it. 

 

 

 

Nos 60501/2/5/6 are probably less-safe, because they later got Thompson and Peppercorn boilers, the same as those carried by the A2/3s. This is (once again) my own DJH kit-built Wolf, painted by Ian Rathbone. 

 

 

 

Since 60500 retained its four-segment boiler until 1961/'62, then it might be 'safe', though it is the pioneer of the class. Built from a Crownline kit, painted by Ian Rathbone.

 

 

And, since DANTE has already been mentioned, here she (he?) is. The usual DJH/Wright/Rathbone combination. 

 

 

If an RTR A2/3 ever appeared, then Graeme King's magical resin creations will no longer be needed. Graeme did this one, and I patch-painted/lettered/numbered/named/weathered it. This, like DANTE, and all the rest (eventually) had the more-common five-segment boiler, with a round or streamlined dome. 

 

We wait and see. Me? So what if an RTR A2/3 (or A2/2) appears? I'm sure it'll sell well and, if current standards are anything to go by, it'll be an exceptional model. Many, many more folk will also be able to have one as well. That's egalitarian, I suppose. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Clive Mortimore]

Thanks Brian,

 

I think we can discount the A2/1 as a possibility for RTR in the future. Though it looks similar to an A2/3, its different wheelbase (shorter), smaller boiler, different height of horizontal handrails (on the deflectors as well) and 'V'-fronted cab militate against it. That's why DJH didn't introduce it in their kit range, though Crownline/PDK did. 

 

Interestingly, according to the poll, the A2/3 seems to be growing in popularity (?). Is it because of the names? If one discounts the titular first one, and the last, their names are rather splendid. The likes of DANTE at the head of a heavy train really sounds good. 

 

As for the A2/2, as DJH has done, the four latterly fitted with Thompson/Peppercorn boilers could be made with a few alterations from the basic A2/3 form.

 

And, we can forget Thompson's GREAT NORTHERN as being on any RTR manufacturer's radar! 

 

Who knows? 

 

Certainly, if an RTR Thompson Pacific arrives RTR, we can say goodbye to many current kits.................................Which, to me, is a real shame for those who build rather than buy. 

 

A2/1s, as mentioned, should be safe, though. 

 

60508 on Down express.jpg

 

This is my 42-year old Jamieson hand-cut A2/1, still going strong as 60508 DUKE OF ROTHESAY. This was the only A2/1 I saw - every day when I was 'spotting at Retford.

 

PDK A2 1.jpg

 

Because 60508 was the 'English' member of the four 'orphans of the storm', it's probably had more models built of it. This is one built/painted by John Houlden (I think), from a PDK kit - now the property of Geoff West. 

 

 David West A2 1.jpg

 

David West has certainly had a go at one, from the same source. 

 

A2 1 03 Nu-Cast 60510.jpg

 

Just out of interest, I built a Nu-Cast A2/1, in the form of Scottish-allocated 60510 ROBERT THE BRUCE. Ian Rathbone painted it. It's justification on LB? On a running-in turn.

 

60504 04.jpg

 

One A2/2 type probably 'safe' from RTR duplication is the likes of 60503/4, which retained their original four-segment boilers to the end. I built this from a Crownline kit, and Ian Rathbone painted it. 

 

60506 04.jpg

 

60506 05.jpg

 

Nos 60501/2/5/6 are probably less-safe, because they later got Thompson and Peppercorn boilers, the same as those carried by the A2/3s. This is (once again) my own DJH kit-built Wolf, painted by Ian Rathbone. 

 

 

A2 3 60500.jpg

 

Since 60500 retained its four-segment boiler until 1961/'62, then it might be 'safe', though it is the pioneer of the class. Built from a Crownline kit, painted by Ian Rathbone.

 

Figures 06.jpg

 

And, since DANTE has already been mentioned, here she (he?) is. The usual DJH/Wright/Rathbone combination. 

 

A2 3 60515 01.jpg

 

If an RTR A2/3 ever appeared, then Graeme King's magical resin creations will no longer be needed. Graeme did this one, and I patch-painted/lettered/numbered/named/weathered it. This, like DANTE, and all the rest (eventually) had the more-common five-segment boiler, with a round or streamlined dome. 

 

We wait and see. Me? So what if an RTR A2/3 (or A2/2) appears? I'm sure it'll sell well and, if current standards are anything to go by, it'll be an exceptional model. Many, many more folk will also be able to have one as well. That's egalitarian, I suppose. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Hello Tony

 

Why not an A1/1 or any A2/xyz in RTR? Just look at the diesel classes that ten years ago only nutters scratchbuilt.

[Headstock]

Thanks Brian,

 

I think we can discount the A2/1 as a possibility for RTR in the future. Though it looks similar to an A2/3, its different wheelbase (shorter), smaller boiler, different height of horizontal handrails (on the deflectors as well) and 'V'-fronted cab militate against it. That's why DJH didn't introduce it in their kit range, though Crownline/PDK did. 

 

Interestingly, according to the poll, the A2/3 seems to be growing in popularity (?). Is it because of the names? If one discounts the titular first one, and the last, their names are rather splendid. The likes of DANTE at the head of a heavy train really sounds good. 

 

As for the A2/2, as DJH has done, the four latterly fitted with Thompson/Peppercorn boilers could be made with a few alterations from the basic A2/3 form.

 

And, we can forget Thompson's GREAT NORTHERN as being on any RTR manufacturer's radar! 

 

Who knows? 

 

Certainly, if an RTR Thompson Pacific arrives RTR, we can say goodbye to many current kits.................................Which, to me, is a real shame for those who build rather than buy. 

 

A2/1s, as mentioned, should be safe, though. 

 

60508 on Down express.jpg

 

This is my 42-year old Jamieson hand-cut A2/1, still going strong as 60508 DUKE OF ROTHESAY. This was the only A2/1 I saw - every day when I was 'spotting at Retford.

 

PDK A2 1.jpg

 

Because 60508 was the 'English' member of the four 'orphans of the storm', it's probably had more models built of it. This is one built/painted by John Houlden (I think), from a PDK kit - now the property of Geoff West. 

 

 David West A2 1.jpg

 

David West has certainly had a go at one, from the same source. 

 

A2 1 03 Nu-Cast 60510.jpg

 

Just out of interest, I built a Nu-Cast A2/1, in the form of Scottish-allocated 60510 ROBERT THE BRUCE. Ian Rathbone painted it. It's justification on LB? On a running-in turn.

 

60504 04.jpg

 

One A2/2 type probably 'safe' from RTR duplication is the likes of 60503/4, which retained their original four-segment boilers to the end. I built this from a Crownline kit, and Ian Rathbone painted it. 

 

60506 04.jpg

 

60506 05.jpg

 

Nos 60501/2/5/6 are probably less-safe, because they later got Thompson and Peppercorn boilers, the same as those carried by the A2/3s. This is (once again) my own DJH kit-built Wolf, painted by Ian Rathbone. 

 

 

A2 3 60500.jpg

 

Since 60500 retained its four-segment boiler until 1961/'62, then it might be 'safe', though it is the pioneer of the class. Built from a Crownline kit, painted by Ian Rathbone.

 

Figures 06.jpg

 

And, since DANTE has already been mentioned, here she (he?) is. The usual DJH/Wright/Rathbone combination. 

 

A2 3 60515 01.jpg

 

If an RTR A2/3 ever appeared, then Graeme King's magical resin creations will no longer be needed. Graeme did this one, and I patch-painted/lettered/numbered/named/weathered it. This, like DANTE, and all the rest (eventually) had the more-common five-segment boiler, with a round or streamlined dome. 

 

We wait and see. Me? So what if an RTR A2/3 (or A2/2) appears? I'm sure it'll sell well and, if current standards are anything to go by, it'll be an exceptional model. Many, many more folk will also be able to have one as well. That's egalitarian, I suppose. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Afternoon Tony,

 

I've just had a look through the wishlists results with regard to the LNER / ER etc, concerning what is on offer to the serious modeled of that company or regions, not a lot really. The lists are definitely veering towards the weird and wonderful, with subjects that would not look out of place in a 'Disney world' style LNER theme park.

 

With that in mind, the divergent wishlists are very encouraging to kit builders, in that there is plenty of scope for them  to be producing  more authentic and exciting recreations of the LNER's locomotives and rolling stock.

 

P.S. Does magic DCC improve the discrepancies in ride height on articulated stock?

Edited November 22, 2018 by Headstock

[richard i]

Duke of Gloucester got built as an r-t-r model. Only one livery, two logos on the tender, even if a preservation version done. A1/1had blue, apple green, br blue, br green, it also had small cab, big cab, deflectors, no deflectors, two different nameplates.

.....And duke Of Gloucester only ran on the less popular line.

 

Grabs helmet and ducks for cover.

Richard

[Tony Wright]

Hello Tony

 

Why not an A1/1 or any A2/xyz in RTR? Just look at the diesel classes that ten years ago only nutters scratchbuilt.

How much do you know about Thompson's A1/1, Clive?

 

Without wishing to dig up old enmities, it must be one of the most-controversial locos of all time. When Gresley's pioneer Pacific, GREAT NORTHERN, was rebuilt by Thompson into the A1/1, both the professionals and the enthusiasts were in the most heck of a rage. One contemporary writer suggested that Gresley wouldn't just be turning in his grave, he'd be whirling! 

 

This must have been mentioned before, but the whole rebuild (actually, apart from the wheel centres and the tender, it was a new loco), instead of being the prototype for a whole new generation of post-War ECML fast passenger locos, was very unreliable and saw its existence eked out, in the main, as a standby at various depots. The type was never perpetuated (that was done by Peppercorn, in a very different way) and, though nominally a more powerful loco than the original (it should have been, it was over 20 years newer!), it was nowhere near as good as an A3 with a double Kylchap - which is what it would have become, had the rebuild not taken place. The best bits in it came from Gresley, anyway - the A4 boiler and double Kylchap. The Thompson front end was truly poor, and the whole thing rode badly. 

 

Why would any RTR manufacturer touch such a 'cursed' thing? 

 

 

Not pretty is it?

 

 

Especially compared with what it generally looked like beforehand (though this an A3, not an original A1). 

 

Regarding the A2/1s - there were only four of them, three only ever worked in Scotland for long periods, and three different types of tender would be needed. Too much to consider RTR in my view.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[BMacdermott]

Hello everyone

 

To help readers get a balanced view of the subject for the purpose of comparison, I have attached:

1. Extract - List of LNER Locos as presented to voters as 'the voting slip' in The Wishlist Poll 2018 (I have excluded The Guide Notes);

2. Extract - LNER Locos in result format, also for 2018.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)

LNER Loco List from The Wishlist Poll 2018.pdf

LNER Loco Results in The Wishlist Poll 2018.pdf

[Tony Wright]

Tony, It was good to talk with you at Ruskington on Sunday last, you told me things about the P2's that I did not know. In case the message has not got to you yet we raised £1600 for the Lincs and Notts  Air Ambulance. So a big thank you to all who attended.

      Mick Whittle.

Eddy told me of the amount you raised, Mick,

 

A terrific achievement, though I, other than donating raffle prizes, raised not a jot from my loco-doctoring. 

[Tony Wright]

Duke of Gloucester got built as an r-t-r model. Only one livery, two logos on the tender, even if a preservation version done. A1/1had blue, apple green, br blue, br green, it also had small cab, big cab, deflectors, no deflectors, two different nameplates.

.....And duke Of Gloucester only ran on the less popular line.

 

Grabs helmet and ducks for cover.

Richard

But no amount of polychromatic 'disguise' could hide GREAT NORTHERN's looks! 

 

DUKE OF GLOUCESTER was/is much more popular. Granted, it was a bit of a dud when first built (though it used to be able to leave Chester at a fair lick), but since preservation, when its valves have been sorted out, it's put in some tremendous performances. Got right at the start, it could have become one of Britain's finest express passenger locos - which it now is. 

 

Of course, it still exists, which helps. Just prior to GREAT NORTHERN's withdrawal, there was a 'paper' proposal to 'set the record right' by re-rebuilding it into an A3. A shame it wasn't done.

[Tony Wright]

 

 

Regarding the A2/1s - there were only four of them, three only ever worked in Scotland for long periods, and three different types of tender would be needed. Too much to consider RTR in my view.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

I know what you mean, but actually they regularly got to Newcastle, especially in the 50's and frequently on the top expresses, notably the Heart of Midlothian and Queen of Scots, Apparently they were well regarded at 64B. Or are you trying to suggest I'm not a Sassenach?

 

Incidentally, shouldn't it be Thanes of Fife, no Thane of Fifes?  All these pictures of locos and articulated stock and such are really boring, compared to discussions of grammar, DC v DCC etc.( NOT)

 

I thought a Sassenach was anyone born south of the Highlands, not just south of Scotland. 

 

My view is that the plural should be Thanes of Fife, though Black Marlin will explain (grammatically) why is should be Fifes which is pluralised.  

[BMacdermott]

Hello again everyone

 

I forgot to say that the 'voting slip' PDF lists locos by wheel arrangement (which we do for all five steam loco categories).

 

The results are by number of votes; railway company; class, then wheel arrangement.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)

[landscapes]

Hi Tony

 

Another PDK A2/1 60509 Waverley built for me by Paul Hill some three years ago.

 

Regards

 

David

 

 

[Lecorbusier]

..... Anyway, it would complicate LB's operation to the point of increasing the time to run the sequence by (probably) 100%. How? Let's, say, take the operation of the 'Lizzie'. Three A4s are kitted out with a headboard for that duty - 60014, 60024 and 60027. When it's the time for the non-stop to run, I just follow my instructions, set the road in the fiddle yard and flick a switch. The signalman (it's always a man!), reading his notes, pulls off the Up fast boards, and the driver (reading his), just opens the throttle. There's no faffing around putting the loco's address into some magic gadget. No matter which A4 it is, it just goes - fast! Imagine having to key in 45 locos' addresses, every time - assuming (with failing eyesight) we can see which loco it might actually be. No thanks.

 

 

Having gone straight from rudimentary (and I mean rudimentary) DC straight to Protocab unfortunately I have no opinion ... it all sounds very impressive to me!

 

On protocab you adopt the loco to a button on the controller and once adopted it is always there ... you can put the locos name below the button and when you press it you have immediate control. For a smallish stable this is great. For a large stable presumably you would have multiple operators responsible for specific locos ... and that is where the fun starts (head explodes!!!) .... but this is unlikely ever to be a problem I will have.

 

I have to say that descriptions of your running schedule Tony sets my head spinning. Horses for courses ... and wouldn't it be boring if this wasn't the case.

[micklner]

Thompsons A2/1 and A2/2 suffer in that they are all  slightly different specifications/variations so a probable no no for that reason . A2/3 are a far more standard design and the most attractiv/powerful/reliable  of the three classes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[davidw]

Thanks Brian,

 

I think we can discount the A2/1 as a possibility for RTR in the future. Though it looks similar to an A2/3, its different wheelbase (shorter), smaller boiler, different height of horizontal handrails (on the deflectors as well) and 'V'-fronted cab militate against it. That's why DJH didn't introduce it in their kit range, though Crownline/PDK did.

 

Interestingly, according to the poll, the A2/3 seems to be growing in popularity (?). Is it because of the names? If one discounts the titular first one, and the last, their names are rather splendid. The likes of DANTE at the head of a heavy train really sounds good.

 

As for the A2/2, as DJH has done, the four latterly fitted with Thompson/Peppercorn boilers could be made with a few alterations from the basic A2/3 form.

 

And, we can forget Thompson's GREAT NORTHERN as being on any RTR manufacturer's radar!

 

Who knows?

 

Certainly, if an RTR Thompson Pacific arrives RTR, we can say goodbye to many current kits.................................Which, to me, is a real shame for those who build rather than buy.

 

A2/1s, as mentioned, should be safe, though.

 

60508 on Down express.jpg

 

This is my 42-year old Jamieson hand-cut A2/1, still going strong as 60508 DUKE OF ROTHESAY. This was the only A2/1 I saw - every day when I was 'spotting at Retford.

 

PDK A2 1.jpg

 

Because 60508 was the 'English' member of the four 'orphans of the storm', it's probably had more models built of it. This is one built/painted by John Houlden (I think), from a PDK kit - now the property of Geoff West.

 

David West A2 1.jpg

 

David West has certainly had a go at one, from the same source.

 

A2 1 03 Nu-Cast 60510.jpg

 

Just out of interest, I built a Nu-Cast A2/1, in the form of Scottish-allocated 60510 ROBERT THE BRUCE. Ian Rathbone painted it. It's justification on LB? On a running-in turn.

 

60504 04.jpg

 

One A2/2 type probably 'safe' from RTR duplication is the likes of 60503/4, which retained their original four-segment boilers to the end. I built this from a Crownline kit, and Ian Rathbone painted it.

 

60506 04.jpg

 

60506 05.jpg

 

Nos 60501/2/5/6 are probably less-safe, because they later got Thompson and Peppercorn boilers, the same as those carried by the A2/3s. This is (once again) my own DJH kit-built Wolf, painted by Ian Rathbone.

 

 

A2 3 60500.jpg

 

Since 60500 retained its four-segment boiler until 1961/'62, then it might be 'safe', though it is the pioneer of the class. Built from a Crownline kit, painted by Ian Rathbone.

 

Figures 06.jpg

 

And, since DANTE has already been mentioned, here she (he?) is. The usual DJH/Wright/Rathbone combination.

 

A2 3 60515 01.jpg

 

If an RTR A2/3 ever appeared, then Graeme King's magical resin creations will no longer be needed. Graeme did this one, and I patch-painted/lettered/numbered/named/weathered it. This, like DANTE, and all the rest (eventually) had the more-common five-segment boiler, with a round or streamlined dome.

 

We wait and see. Me? So what if an RTR A2/3 (or A2/2) appears? I'm sure it'll sell well and, if current standards are anything to go by, it'll be an exceptional model. Many, many more folk will also be able to have one as well. That's egalitarian, I suppose.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

It was a pain to re do, but the boiler hand rails are now in the correct place on my a2/1 Edited November 22, 2018 by davidw

[Clive Mortimore]

How much do you know about Thompson's A1/1, Clive?

 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Hello Tony

 

Possibly not as much as you but in reading P. N. Townend's book "East Coast Pacifics at Work" it compared very well when trialed against A4 locomotives and it had a lower coal consumption. I am sure if it was as bad as the enthusiast recon then the shed master at Kings Cross who had to look after it would have echoed their distaste. Withdrawn in 1962 not because it was useless but because of the onset of the modernisation program.

 

Now let us look at the wired and wonderful diesel classes that are available RTR. All cursed.

Hunslet class 05 shunter....well to start with the model is of the larger wheel class of Hunslet 204 hp not a 05 and they had all been withdrawn before the TOPS classification. They suffered badly with their gearboxes.

Ruston class 07 shunter....Lasted for sometime as a non standard class, usage limited to Southampton docks 

Class 15 BTH type 1.....Most withdrawn with only 10 years service, unreliable in service.

Class 16 NBL Type 1....didn't even reach being called class 16 as they all had been withdrawn before the implementation of the TOPS scheme. I think they are best summed up by a comment by a Stratford driver when he saw one of my scratchbuilt ones moving on a club layout. " That wouldn't have happened". "Why?" I questioned. "It would have been failed before leaving the shed".  They were useless.

Class 17 Clayton Type 1....again not one of the better purchases of tax payers money, short lives because they were unreliable. I did read an account by a traction inspector which went on the lines of "The best thing about the Claytons was having two engines, so when one failed you had the other to get you home."

Class 21 and class 29 NBL type 2 Diesel-electric....very unreliable, replaced with A4s on Glasgow to Aberdeen services, a number of the class re-engined and were slightly better. All early withdrawals.

Class 22 NBL Type 2 Diesel-hydraulic....another NBL design that didn't last too long, a tad better than their electric transmission brothers. 

Class 23 EE Type 2 Baby Deltics....all withdrawn by 1962 and totally refurbished not reentering service until 1964 only to be withdrawn again by 1971. Not a success.

Class 28 Metropolitan-Vickers Type 2.....another class that had to be refurbished early on only to be withdrawn soon after the steam locos they replaced. 

Class 41 NBL Type 4 "Warship"....like the type 1s built by North British they too had been withdrawn before the implementation of TOPS so were never really class 41 because they were rubbish.

 

A successful class but was built when the traffic had gone were the Swindon Type 1s, the class 14, which were early withdrawals from BR because there was nothing for them to do. British Steel and the NBC saved quite a lot of money by buying these nearly new locos off BR. 

 

Then there is the oddities, I mean one off's and small classes

 

LMS Co-Co 1600hp 10000 and 10001

SR 1Co-Co1 1600hp/2000hp 10201-3

Deltic

DP2

Lion

Falcon

Kestrel

 

60113 had a far longer service life than most of the above.

 

If there is a market for this amount of useless and oddball diesels then the Thompson locos stand a good chance of adorning many layouts. 

 

As a side note out of the above list of rubbish and strange locos I have made all either scratchbuilt, heavy conversions of RTR  except the 07, 14 and Deltic they were kits.

[96701]

'Sound' words, Stephen,

 

Your comments about the noise in an exhibition hall are entirely pertinent, at least with regard to how 'quietly' locomotives' mechanisms run. 

 

Irrespective of the debates either side of digital sound (and it is a juggling act), every locomotive mechanism I build has to run as 'quietly' as possible. By that, I mean no whirr-whirrings, no squeaks from pick-ups and no whine (that's why I'm not a fan of Portescaps). I'm entirely happy with the mechanical 'clatter' of a heavy loco, travelling fast over pointwork (the real things weren't quiet, after all), but not the synchronised change of note with every revolution, caused by ill-fitting gears. Occasionally, I'll make one which, though tolerable, still displays an irritating 'noisiness'. The cure? Take it to a show and run it there - it's totally silent; until it's brought back home! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Tony,

 

At some stage, can I bring Geoff's Duke of Gloucester for you to try on LB? It is the first MGB1 gearbox / Maxon motor combo that actually worked. It is a Golden Arrow resin body packed with lead, and I don't recall it whining. I'm coming to Warley, can I bring it with me for you to give it a romp? I cannot think of a better layout to give it some space. The thing that I remember most about it was the look of smugness on Geoff's face when I stopped it on his 1:100 gradient and set it off again with eight Comet coaches on and it just crept off without a hint of slip. It needs a run.

[Theakerr]

Dear O Dear.  All this talk about A2s means I will have to do a whole lot of research before I start to build my newly acquired DJH kit.  Do I build an A2/2 or an A2/3 or since it is a rather old kit do I have any choice based on all the bits it came with.  In the past I have either built based on a remembered name or class.  For the A2s I really don't have any remembered name that I want to build and as a youngster I couldn't tell the difference between an A1 and an A2 let alone between an A2/2 and an A2/3.  So decisions as they say

[St Enodoc]

I thought a Sassenach was anyone born south of the Highlands, not just south of Scotland. 

 

My view is that the plural should be Thanes of Fife, though Black Marlin will explain (grammatically) why is should be Fifes which is pluralised.  

How about "Thane of Fife"s?

 

I suppose that, since there was only one real one, "models of Thane of Fife" would work better.

[micklner]

Dear O Dear.  All this talk about A2s means I will have to do a whole lot of research before I start to build my newly acquired DJH kit.  Do I build an A2/2 or an A2/3 or since it is a rather old kit do I have any choice based on all the bits it came with.  In the past I have either built based on a remembered name or class.  For the A2s I really don't have any remembered name that I want to build and as a youngster I couldn't tell the difference between an A1 and an A2 let alone between an A2/2 and an A2/3.  So decisions as they say

 

The DJH A2/2 will only build the BR version with cut back cab roof.

[Tony Wright]

Dear O Dear.  All this talk about A2s means I will have to do a whole lot of research before I start to build my newly acquired DJH kit.  Do I build an A2/2 or an A2/3 or since it is a rather old kit do I have any choice based on all the bits it came with.  In the past I have either built based on a remembered name or class.  For the A2s I really don't have any remembered name that I want to build and as a youngster I couldn't tell the difference between an A1 and an A2 let alone between an A2/2 and an A2/3.  So decisions as they say

When you say it is an old kit, how old? Is it for just an A2 as well? 

 

It'll take a lot of scratch-building to make an A2/2 or an A2/3 out of a DJH A2 kit - new smokebox, new cab, new front end, new smoke deflectors, part-new motion and a different tender if you make an A2/2. As well as..................................

[Tony Wright]

Hello Tony

 

Possibly not as much as you but in reading P. N. Townend's book "East Coast Pacifics at Work" it compared very well when trialed against A4 locomotives and it had a lower coal consumption. I am sure if it was as bad as the enthusiast recon then the shed master at Kings Cross who had to look after it would have echoed their distaste. Withdrawn in 1962 not because it was useless but because of the onset of the modernisation program.

 

Now let us look at the wired and wonderful diesel classes that are available RTR. All cursed.

Hunslet class 05 shunter....well to start with the model is of the larger wheel class of Hunslet 204 hp not a 05 and they had all been withdrawn before the TOPS classification. They suffered badly with their gearboxes.

Ruston class 07 shunter....Lasted for sometime as a non standard class, usage limited to Southampton docks 

Class 15 BTH type 1.....Most withdrawn with only 10 years service, unreliable in service.

Class 16 NBL Type 1....didn't even reach being called class 16 as they all had been withdrawn before the implementation of the TOPS scheme. I think they are best summed up by a comment by a Stratford driver when he saw one of my scratchbuilt ones moving on a club layout. " That wouldn't have happened". "Why?" I questioned. "It would have been failed before leaving the shed".  They were useless.

Class 17 Clayton Type 1....again not one of the better purchases of tax payers money, short lives because they were unreliable. I did read an account by a traction inspector which went on the lines of "The best thing about the Claytons was having two engines, so when one failed you had the other to get you home."

Class 21 and class 29 NBL type 2 Diesel-electric....very unreliable, replaced with A4s on Glasgow to Aberdeen services, a number of the class re-engined and were slightly better. All early withdrawals.

Class 22 NBL Type 2 Diesel-hydraulic....another NBL design that didn't last too long, a tad better than their electric transmission brothers. 

Class 23 EE Type 2 Baby Deltics....all withdrawn by 1962 and totally refurbished not reentering service until 1964 only to be withdrawn again by 1971. Not a success.

Class 28 Metropolitan-Vickers Type 2.....another class that had to be refurbished early on only to be withdrawn soon after the steam locos they replaced. 

Class 41 NBL Type 4 "Warship"....like the type 1s built by North British they too had been withdrawn before the implementation of TOPS so were never really class 41 because they were rubbish.

 

A successful class but was built when the traffic had gone were the Swindon Type 1s, the class 14, which were early withdrawals from BR because there was nothing for them to do. British Steel and the NBC saved quite a lot of money by buying these nearly new locos off BR. 

 

Then there is the oddities, I mean one off's and small classes

 

LMS Co-Co 1600hp 10000 and 10001

SR 1Co-Co1 1600hp/2000hp 10201-3

Deltic

DP2

Lion

Falcon

Kestrel

 

60113 had a far longer service life than most of the above.

 

If there is a market for this amount of useless and oddball diesels then the Thompson locos stand a good chance of adorning many layouts. 

 

As a side note out of the above list of rubbish and strange locos I have made all either scratchbuilt, heavy conversions of RTR  except the 07, 14 and Deltic they were kits.

I'm not saying it was as bad as some of those oddball diesels you cite, Clive. 

 

During comparative trials, the loco was almost brand new. Its time at Top Shed was quite short, and it soon went to Grantham as spare loco (hardly a vote of confidence). A plate was fixed inside the cab with a request for it to be returned as soon as possible, or words to that effect. It ended up at 36A where, to be fair, it worked regularly out and back to London. However, its incidences of shopping were far more than any Gresley or Peppercorn Pacific, and almost as many as the A2/2s. 

 

Apart from latter day apologists, no recognised railway author has much to say in praise of any of Thompson's Pacifics. 

[Clive Mortimore]

I'm not saying it was as bad as some of those oddball diesels you cite, Clive. 

 

During comparative trials, the loco was almost brand new. Its time at Top Shed was quite short, and it soon went to Grantham as spare loco (hardly a vote of confidence). A plate was fixed inside the cab with a request for it to be returned as soon as possible, or words to that effect. It ended up at 36A where, to be fair, it worked regularly out and back to London. However, its incidences of shopping were far more than any Gresley or Peppercorn Pacific, and almost as many as the A2/2s. 

 

Apart from latter day apologists, no recognised railway author has much to say in praise of any of Thompson's Pacifics. 

Hello Tony

 

All the oddball diesels have or will be (class 41s) available RTR, so why not a Thompson or two?

 

I am sure there will be a Thompson A2/something long before a AM2 unit. There were 112 AM 2s (class 302) built and possibly carried more passengers in their 40 years of service than traveled behind all the BR standards. The more obscure a class is the more likely it is to be made and sell well. Kestrel is a good example, OK it did run a bit on the east coast mainline but its very short BR service was mainly spent hauling coal from Shirebrook to March on the GE/GN joint line at night. Look at how well that sold.

 

A lot of recognised railway authors did not have much praise for many of the longlasting and successful diesel classes.

[micklner]

GN was a fated engine on the day it was rebuilt, there is so much said relating to Thompson and his rebuild that I sometimes wonder how much is true and the rest venom/rumour/spite for the sake of it? It was a one off as the W1, and no matter how good or bad it would have never survived the BR cull of small classes in the early 60's.

 

https://www.lner.info/locos/A/a1_1.php

 

note the comment better then a single chimney A3 and A4 in the text.

 

Is Peter Townsend a recognised author ?,as he praises the A2/3 in his excellent LNER Pacifics book as the only type to manage a Cement train which a 9F couldn't manage. The comments will no doubt go around in its usual circle, perhaps we will never know the answer ? 

 

 

What without a doubt for me is that the ECML, for a modeller would be a much poorer place without the Thompson's having existed good or bad.

 

Edited November 22, 2018 by micklner

[jrg1]

Hello Tony

 

All the oddball diesels have or will be (class 41s) available RTR, so why not a Thompson or two?

 

I am sure there will be a Thompson A2/something long before a AM2 unit. There were 112 AM 2s (class 302) built and possibly carried more passengers in their 40 years of service than traveled behind all the BR standards. The more obscure a class is the more likely it is to be made and sell well. Kestrel is a good example, OK it did run a bit on the east coast mainline but its very short BR service was mainly spent hauling coal from Shirebrook to March on the GE/GN joint line at night. Look at how well that sold.

 

A lot of recognised railway authors did not have much praise for many of the longlasting and successful diesel classes.

BR were saddled with a dud diesel fleet, as the Modernisation Plan was seen as a golden opportunity for UK manufacturers.  I thought it amusing that the 03, 04, 05 and Barclay shunters all had the same Gardner engine.  Not so amusing were the NBL class  22 diesel hydraulics that were built and needed a general overhaul at Swindon before entering service.  Putting dud Crossley engines in the class 28 and an 08 variant was ridiculous.  However, a great variety for modellers-unlike the bland, uninteresting scene today.

[Niels]

 

A3 60104 DJH.jpg

 

Especially compared with what it generally looked like beforehand (though this an A3, not an original A1). 

 

Tony. 

Gresley 6 feet nine pacifics look old fashined and slow compared to Thompsons 6 feet 2s..

The fastest ever european regular fare financed steam trains were belgian ..

Most of the Thompsons were long and with small wheels and look much faster than Gresleys.

Long and low looks fast.

Just like ships