Wright writes.....

[jwealleans]

You can read all about it on Andy's own thread, Baz.

[thegreenhowards]

 

 

Andy, would you mind telling us all about these, please?

 

Tony,

 

Firstly many thanks to you and Mo for your hospitality. I really enjoyed my visit, both the modelling tuition and running LB. The running on LB is truly exceptional. The major incident we had was due to me reversing a DMU into the end of its (inaccessible) siding which produced some particularly fruity language. We also had a couple of minor derailments caused by sprat and winkle couplings locking - I suggested that Tony should replace them with tension locks  , but surprisingly he didn't sound overly receptive to that idea!

 

As for the models, some have been seen on here before, but not with Tony's standard of photography. I'll deal with them in turn.

 

The V4 used to look like this.

 

 

The battleship valve gear has been replaced by some modified Nucast V2 valve gear which Tony managed to weave into place - it may not be 100% correct for a v4, but is certainly a massive improvement. I now have to do the other side for my homework. The tender is still a ghastly Hornby tender drive version, but I have the Dave Bradwell 3,500Ton kit (thanks for the recommendation MickLNER) to sort it out.

 

The A8 is a very old DJH kit which I built 35 years ago, but which has never worked properly. I dragged it out of storage recently, repaired the cylinder push rod (which I'd cut of in frustration years ago!), replaced the plunger type pick ups which didn't work, and got it working OK at speed. But it is still a poor runner at low speed. 'Dr' Tony proscribed Romford wheels (as it has screw on type K's wheels with plastic centres) and sold me a set. So that will be some more homework and hopefully I will have a smooth running A8 35 years after I started it!

 

The N8 is another kit from my teenage years. I think they're lovely looking locos. This one did run, but it was on a ghastly Triang Jinty chassis, so when I spotted the newish Bachmann E4 had the correct wheelbase and wheel diameter, I took the plunge and bought one. I've managed to fit it in the N8 with a fair bit of white metal carving and it now runs like a dream.

 

The K3 is a SE Finecast kit. This was my first attempt at making valve gear, so Tony kindly helped me with the first side about 18 months ago, and I did the second side. It's then been waiting for the paint shop but I finally got round to it in the last few weeks with the incentive of a trip to Tony's to spur me on. I'm really pleased with the way it's come out - the Modelmaster lining has worked exceptionally well, although the footplate was a pig and I resorted to a fine paintbrush for some of the curves.

 

...and finally the Kitchen car. This is a Gresley ex.GNR 65'6" Kitchen car as rebuilt in the 1930's from a 1906 Sheffield stock Restaurant Composite. I built it by cutting and shutting a couple of Kirk Sleeping Cars and a Buffet Car. There were lots of cuts as you can see in the photo below! I hope this excuses to some extent the less than perfect finish along the roof line.

 

 

The rest of the model was built from MJT(roof and underframe), 247 (bogies which are LNWR but pretty close), Mike Trice (roof vents) and pen tops (gas tanks). I think that by the late '50s (my period), it was based at Heaton and used on excursion and relief traffic. I will run it in a relief rake of Kirk Gresleys (mainly EV and open stock). More details are on my workbench thread http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/135510-coulsdon-works/?p=3223526.

 

Andy

[LMS29]

I had a woodwork teacher who came to school variously in his Austin 7 (regularly), an E-type Jag (rarely) and at least once on his Traction engine. I remember meeting him as he removed the bar from a soon-to-be-demolished pub in Guisborough and then again as he served behind it in its new home in a buffet car on the NYMR. He turned up at our house in a home made open top car, resplendent in flying jacket, helmet and goggles. He was my form teacher for a year and came in to do the register without a pen every morning until the day every child in the room threw one at him when he asked. He once sprinkled the contents of a bottle of Ammonia all over the woodowrk room floor and then shut us in with the smell. I forget why.There is still the odd character among the teachers I meet at parents evenings now, but I wonder whether there are as many or as characterful?

Jonathan,

 

The same teacher encouraged my son's interest in motor mechanics. On one occasion he gave him a scrap engine to take home and investigate. All was going well till he got to the sump and engine oil leaked all over my work bench and the surrounds. He is still interested in things mechanical and remembers the teacher with respect.

 

Tom

[jwealleans]

John used to run an after school class in car maintenance, but for reasons I've never been made aware of it didn't run for almost exactly the period I was at the school, restarting after I'd left.

[Clive Mortimore]

Most of the vagabonds on this thread are into LNER stuff. I have just received a copy of the Hugh Longworth's Pre Nationalisation Coaching Stock Volume 1 GWR and LNER. 

 

Hugh has catalogued all the coaches that were taken into BR service in 1948, giving details of withdrawal, transfer etc. Each type has a drawing from the diagram book. It will help you LNER guys get your through GWR summer specials right.  I never realised there was so much pre grouping coaching stock still in service with the LNER on 31st December 1947.

[Tony Wright]

Tony,

 

Firstly many thanks to you and Mo for your hospitality. I really enjoyed my visit, both the modelling tuition and running LB. The running on LB is truly exceptional. The major incident we had was due to me reversing a DMU into the end of its (inaccessible) siding which produced some particularly fruity language. We also had a couple of minor derailments caused by sprat and winkle couplings locking - I suggested that Tony should replace them with tension locks  , but surprisingly he didn't sound overly receptive to that idea!

 

As for the models, some have been seen on here before, but not with Tony's standard of photography. I'll deal with them in turn.

 

The V4 used to look like this.

 

DSC_1612.JPG

 

The battleship valve gear has been replaced by some modified Nucast V2 valve gear which Tony managed to weave into place - it may not be 100% correct for a v4, but is certainly a massive improvement. I now have to do the other side for my homework. The tender is still a ghastly Hornby tender drive version, but I have the Dave Bradwell 3,500Ton kit (thanks for the recommendation MickLNER) to sort it out.

 

The A8 is a very old DJH kit which I built 35 years ago, but which has never worked properly. I dragged it out of storage recently, repaired the cylinder push rod (which I'd cut of in frustration years ago!), replaced the plunger type pick ups which didn't work, and got it working OK at speed. But it is still a poor runner at low speed. 'Dr' Tony proscribed Romford wheels (as it has screw on type K's wheels with plastic centres) and sold me a set. So that will be some more homework and hopefully I will have a smooth running A8 35 years after I started it!

 

The N8 is another kit from my teenage years. I think they're lovely looking locos. This one did run, but it was on a ghastly Triang Jinty chassis, so when I spotted the newish Bachmann E4 had the correct wheelbase and wheel diameter, I took the plunge and bought one. I've managed to fit it in the N8 with a fair bit of white metal carving and it now runs like a dream.

 

The K3 is a SE Finecast kit. This was my first attempt at making valve gear, so Tony kindly helped me with the first side about 18 months ago, and I did the second side. It's then been waiting for the paint shop but I finally got round to it in the last few weeks with the incentive of a trip to Tony's to spur me on. I'm really pleased with the way it's come out - the Modelmaster lining has worked exceptionally well, although the footplate was a pig and I resorted to a fine paintbrush for some of the curves.

 

...and finally the Kitchen car. This is a Gresley ex.GNR 65'6" Kitchen car as rebuilt in the 1930's from a 1906 Sheffield stock Restaurant Composite. I built it by cutting and shutting a couple of Kirk Sleeping Cars and a Buffet Car. There were lots of cuts as you can see in the photo below! I hope this excuses to some extent the less than perfect finish along the roof line.

 

20180530_212443766_iOS.jpg

 

The rest of the model was built from MJT(roof and underframe), 247 (bogies which are LNWR but pretty close), Mike Trice (roof vents) and pen tops (gas tanks). I think that by the late '50s (my period), it was based at Heaton and used on excursion and relief traffic. I will run it in a relief rake of Kirk Gresleys (mainly EV and open stock). More details are on my workbench thread http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/135510-coulsdon-works/?p=3223526.

 

Andy

Thanks for the info Andy,

 

I'm glad your MGB GT got you home safely. It certainly sounded throaty! 

 

It was a pleasure to have you as our guest. And, even though I had to break off for proof-reading, we certainly got plenty done. And, thank you for your generosity in donating to CRUK. 

 

With regard to the second running-session we embarked on, that's probably as good a performance as LB has ever 'enjoyed'. The old gits are very good (though there are four of us) and other visitors are pretty competent, but with concentration and fortitude, you operated exceptionally-well. I don't think we had a 'black mark' (layout-related) at all yesterday; just the odd 'brown mark' (operator-related - mainly me). I think we performed the 51 train movements in two and a quarter hours. Very good, considering there was quite a bit of shunting. Quite honestly, if a sequence went on for much more than that, I think we'd get a bit fed up. 

 

How Sprat & Winkle couplings get the 'wrong side of each other', I have no idea. It must be after I put odd wagons back into the pick-ups, though the cement train is never separated. 

 

Thank you also for your comments on some of the trains in the sequence. I've had another (quick) look, and that later train would appear to be a summer SO working, so that'll be rejigged. All I need to do, is just move some trains from one time in the sequence to another. It really would be impossible to have every train modelled which ran through Little Bytham on a summer's day in 1958. I haven't counted them up, but it's probably well over a hundred, maybe more (in 24 hours). 

 

Thank you as well for accepting my compromises with regard to some of the stock I've built which runs. I agree, a ScR-allocated Gresley Kitchen car would be rather-unlikely, but it's so 'pretty'. 

 

All the best,

 

Tony. 

[thegreenhowards]

Thanks for the info Andy,

 

I'm glad your MGB GT got you home safely. It certainly sounded throaty! 

 

It was a pleasure to have you as our guest. And, even though I had to break off for proof-reading, we certainly got plenty done. And, thank you for your generosity in donating to CRUK. 

 

With regard to the second running-session we embarked on, that's probably as good a performance as LB has ever 'enjoyed'. The old gits are very good (though there are four of us) and other visitors are pretty competent, but with concentration and fortitude, you operated exceptionally-well. I don't think we had a 'black mark' (layout-related) at all yesterday; just the odd 'brown mark' (operator-related - mainly me). I think we performed the 51 train movements in two and a quarter hours. Very good, considering there was quite a bit of shunting. Quite honestly, if a sequence went on for much more than that, I think we'd get a bit fed up. 

 

How Sprat & Winkle couplings get the 'wrong side of each other', I have no idea. It must be after I put odd wagons back into the pick-ups, though the cement train is never separated. 

 

Thank you also for your comments on some of the trains in the sequence. I've had another (quick) look, and that later train would appear to be a summer SO working, so that'll be rejigged. All I need to do, is just move some trains from one time in the sequence to another. It really would be impossible to have every train modelled which ran through Little Bytham on a summer's day in 1958. I haven't counted them up, but it's probably well over a hundred, maybe more (in 24 hours). 

 

Thank you as well for accepting my compromises with regard to some of the stock I've built which runs. I agree, a ScR-allocated Gresley Kitchen car would be rather-unlikely, but it's so 'pretty'. 

 

All the best,

 

Tony. 

 

Thanks Tony,

 

The MGB GT behaved faultlessly, but the driver was flagging by the end. I'm not a good night time driver and had to have a couple of stops to keep me awake!

 

The second running sequence certainly went smoothly.  I think I've just about mastered it and even reduced the number of times I forgot to set or cancel the signals down to a handful....but I would never make a signalman. The 2 1/4 hours allowed for photographic stops as well, so could probably be expanded marginally, but as the fiddle yard is full to saturation that would probably mean re-using trains - perhaps running them up early and then down later on.

 

I think the story of the flying B1 should be told. During the first sequence, Tony forgot to replace the cassette 'safety wood block' and reset the road. Meanwhile I decided that to speed things up I would run a B1 hauled freight through the fiddle yard at high speed (obviously ready to slow down before the scenic section). The B1 took the cassette road with no cassette in place and launched into thin air. Luckily I spotted what was happening just in time and dived across to catch the B1. Tony wanted to sign me up for his cricket team... but he hasn't seen the rest of my play!

 

I think the sequence is a great representation of what would have passed through Little Bytham, and it's certainly entertaining to operate. But a few trains seem to have got out of order in the changes that you've made over time. That final Edinburgh/ Glasgow would be better earlier in the sequence unless you want to model a Summer Saturday, but as I mentioned the Junior Scotsman had an ex Coronation RS/FO twin in 1958, so maybe not that service. I love the Gresley RK, so carry on with 'rule 1' with regard to that as far as I'm concerned. I also think that some of the Pullman trains need re-sequencing. I can't remember the details, but I think the Master Cutler and Yorkshire Pullman were too close together.

 

Thanks again for your hospitality and help with my locos.

 

All the best

 

Andy

[Mallard60022]

 

...and finally the Kitchen car. This is a Gresley ex.GNR 65'6" Kitchen car as rebuilt in the 1930's from a 1906 Sheffield stock Restaurant Composite. I built it by cutting and shutting a couple of Kirk Sleeping Cars and a Buffet Car. There were lots of cuts as you can see in the photo below! I hope this excuses to some extent the less than perfect finish along the roof line.

 

20180530_212443766_iOS.jpg

 

The rest of the model was built from MJT(roof and underframe), 247 (bogies which are LNWR but pretty close), Mike Trice (roof vents) and pen tops (gas tanks). I think that by the late '50s (my period), it was based at Heaton and used on excursion and relief traffic. I will run it in a relief rake of Kirk Gresleys (mainly EV and open stock). More details are on my workbench thread http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/135510-coulsdon-works/?p=3223526.

 

Andy

 

Thanks Andy. I suspect I shall be attempting to acquire those LNWR Bogies for a build I could be attempting in the future (LSWR/SR Director's Saloon.using all sorts of bits but mostly Worsley Works etchings for the body).

That is certainly a labour of love and it resulted in a wonderfully unusual coach.

Thanks for the info,

Phil

Edited November 30, 2018 by Mallard60022

[Chamby]

........ I can't remember the details, but I think the Master Cutler and Yorkshire Pullman were too close together.........

Whenever anyone mentions the Master Cutler in the context of the ECML it always serves to remind of the sad situation of the GCLE in 1958, when the LMR started to run down the former GC. Some of my reference sources narrate that the Cutler was resurrected on the ECML in October 1958 and was introduced as a class 40 hauled Pullman service... six cars, two return trips per day to Sheffield Victoria. So I am intrigued to hear of it running through LB - presumably steam hauled - on a ‘Summer’s day in 1958’.... a trial run, perhaps?

 

Phil.

Edited November 30, 2018 by Chamby

[Headstock]

Most of the vagabonds on this thread are into LNER stuff. I have just received a copy of the Hugh Longworth's Pre Nationalisation Coaching Stock Volume 1 GWR and LNER. 

 

Hugh has catalogued all the coaches that were taken into BR service in 1948, giving details of withdrawal, transfer etc. Each type has a drawing from the diagram book. It will help you LNER guys get your through GWR summer specials right.  I never realised there was so much pre grouping coaching stock still in service with the LNER on 31st December 1947.

 

Evening Clive,

 

sixty percent, is the usually quoted percentage of pre grouping carriages in LNER booked stock at Nationalization.

[Headstock]

Whenever anyone mentions the Master Cutler in the context of the ECML it always serves to remind of the sad situation of the GCLE in 1958, when the LMR started to run down the former GC. Some of my reference sources narrate that the Cutler was resurrected on the ECML in October 1958 and was introduced as a class 40 hauled Pullman service... six cars, two return trips per day to Sheffield Victoria. So I am intrigued to hear of it running through LB - presumably steam hauled - on a ‘Summer’s day in 1958’.... a trial run, perhaps?

 

Phil.

 

Not the proper Master Cutler, as the outraged patrons of Nottingham and Leicester would attest.

[Clive Mortimore]

I remember the Master Cutler from my train spotting days at Bedford.....normally hauled by D1575 one of the few blue liveried class 47s Tinsley had at the time.

[St Enodoc]

I think we performed the 51 train movements in two and a quarter hours. Very good, considering there was quite a bit of shunting. Quite honestly, if a sequence went on for much more than that, I think we'd get a bit fed up.

Interesting point Tony. Mid-Cornwall Lines running sessions are also around the two-hour mark, after which we stop for tea. The sessions are quite intensive and that is probably as long a span of concentration as we can all sustain.

[thegreenhowards]

Thanks Andy. I suspect I shall be attempting to acquire those LNWR Bogies for a build I could be attempting in the future (LSWR/SR Director's Saloon.using all sorts of bits but mostly Worsley Works etchings for the body).

That is certainly a labour of love and it resulted in a wonderfully unusual coach.

Thanks for the info,

Phil

Thanks Phil,

 

I appreciate your comments. I saw a picture of the coach and thought I have to have one of them, but it was quite a challenge! 247 do a couple of different LNWR 12 wheel bogies, so you should find one that suits fairly closely.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Tony Wright]

Whenever anyone mentions the Master Cutler in the context of the ECML it always serves to remind of the sad situation of the GCLE in 1958, when the LMR started to run down the former GC. Some of my reference sources narrate that the Cutler was resurrected on the ECML in October 1958 and was introduced as a class 40 hauled Pullman service... six cars, two return trips per day to Sheffield Victoria. So I am intrigued to hear of it running through LB - presumably steam hauled - on a ‘Summer’s day in 1958’.... a trial run, perhaps?

 

Phil.

Phil,

 

I must admit to being a bit 'flexible' in the exact time period with regard to LB's schedule.

 

I recall watching trains on the road over bridge at Babworth, just north of Retford Station, one evening, in the late summer of 1958. To my astonishment, a brand new D207 appeared, heading north, on the Down Afternoon Talisman. 

 

A month or so later, I saw it again, but this time on the Pullman Master Cutler, which stopped at Retford in both directions. In my experience, it was the only passenger train which went from the GC to the GN and vice versa at Retford. Since the Afternoon Talisman is usually rostered for a Pacific on LB, then, having a model of D207, I needed a duty for it. Hence, the slightly anomalous Master Cutler. No more anomalous than the prototype Deltic,which, according to sources, arrived on the GN in 1959.

 

I suppose this is where I part company with the absolute purists. Those who run to a really strict period, even down to a specific month, week, or even a day! My model-making motivation is from my own trainspotting years. When I started (in 1955/'56), other than the Ivatt pair and the Bulleid trio, there were no main line diesels operating on BR. When I finished (in 1962/'63), the Deltics were blazing their unsurpassed trails. Thus, when Andy was here, an A3 with an early emblem and single chimney merrily romped south, just before TULYAR blasted north on the Down Tees-Tyne Pullman. The latter train is even more anomalous, because LB Station was closed and demolished in the summer of 1959 - before the production Deltics appeared and before the Mk.1 Pullmans as well!

 

Do I hear cries of indignant outrage? 

 

I think I might have surprised Andy with my occasional 'cavalier' approach to accuracy on LB. I think 'Rule 1' might well have applied, in that it's my trainset and.......................

 

Where I won't compromise is with regard to a few principles I apply. These include making things for myself (not everything, of course, but definitely locos and passenger rolling stock). Those things must be as 'accurate' as I can make them, even though two 'accurate' locos appearing together might be, time-wise, anomalous (slightly). And, whatever I make must work - really well. No stuttering, no shorting, no hesitations on starting; quiet and powerful in operation and NO derailments. The last point is an ideal, usually achieved but there are the very rare ones. 

 

As is well-known, good running, above all else, is paramount on LB (I think I might just have committed an act of tautology). I refuse to compromise on this. Some others can't compromise on the 'narrow gauge' or over-scale wheel standards, but they accept less-than-perfect running as a consequence. Each to their own.

 

So, even though not everything running on LB is exactly right for a summer's day in 1958 (though there is more than enough stock to maker it so), it runs................and runs, and runs........................

 

Regards,

 

Tony.    

[Tony Wright]

Interesting point Tony. Mid-Cornwall Lines running sessions are also around the two-hour mark, after which we stop for tea. The sessions are quite intensive and that is probably as long a span of concentration as we can all sustain.

Thanks John,

 

(By the way, my report on the BMRA Convention will be in the March issue of BRM - thanks for your help with this). 

 

I think concentration is the key word. Because I blather on far too much (really?), and, not being a woman (thus, unable to multi-task), I don't concentrate on LB's operation. In 99% of cases, a 'failure' in LB's operating sequence is down to operator error - not setting a correct road, not pulling the right switch, not checking that a loco is really on the road after changing it, and so on. It's almost as if a 'perfect' sequence can only be achieved if nobody talks! This would be intolerable (especially for me!), so the odd mistake is accepted. Usually, nothing is harmed. However, the other day in operating with Andy Sparkes, I forgot to change the point and insert the barrier to the cassette system after using it, and Andy just caught a B1 and its pick-up as it made for the floor. First slip should be his position on a cricket field! Obviously, I was talking too much. 

 

An ideal operating team for LB is four - Up driver, Down driver, signalman and fiddle yard operator. The signalman's duty is also the cassette-operator as well - fewer chances of disaster. Just over two hours' continuous operation is about enough, especially with the talking.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

[Bucoops]

I have every intention of bending rule 1 - Yes I'm aiming for 1939 GE mainline but I do intend to have the odd A1 or even an A4 passing through (railtour?!). I shall ignore the loading gauge and RA rules for those...

[Chamby]

Phil,

 

I must admit to being a bit 'flexible' in the exact time period with regard to LB's schedule.

 

I recall watching trains on the road over bridge at Babworth, just north of Retford Station, one evening, in the late summer of 1958. To my astonishment, a brand new D207 appeared, heading north, on the Down Afternoon Talisman. 

 

A month or so later, I saw it again, but this time on the Pullman Master Cutler, which stopped at Retford in both directions. In my experience, it was the only passenger train which went from the GC to the GN and vice versa at Retford. Since the Afternoon Talisman is usually rostered for a Pacific on LB, then, having a model of D207, I needed a duty for it. Hence, the slightly anomalous Master Cutler. No more anomalous than the prototype Deltic,which, according to sources, arrived on the GN in 1959.

 

I suppose this is where I part company with the absolute purists. Those who run to a really strict period, even down to a specific month, week, or even a day! My model-making motivation is from my own trainspotting years. When I started (in 1955/'56), other than the Ivatt pair and the Bulleid trio, there were no main line diesels operating on BR. When I finished (in 1962/'63), the Deltics were blazing their unsurpassed trails. Thus, when Andy was here, an A3 with an early emblem and single chimney merrily romped south, just before TULYAR blasted north on the Down Tees-Tyne Pullman. The latter train is even more anomalous, because LB Station was closed and demolished in the summer of 1959 - before the production Deltics appeared and before the Mk.1 Pullmans as well!

 

Do I hear cries of indignant outrage? 

 

I think I might have surprised Andy with my occasional 'cavalier' approach to accuracy on LB. I think 'Rule 1' might well have applied, in that it's my trainset and.......................

 

Where I won't compromise is with regard to a few principles I apply. These include making things for myself (not everything, of course, but definitely locos and passenger rolling stock). Those things must be as 'accurate' as I can make them, even though two 'accurate' locos appearing together might be, time-wise, anomalous (slightly). And, whatever I make must work - really well. No stuttering, no shorting, no hesitations on starting; quiet and powerful in operation and NO derailments. The last point is an ideal, usually achieved but there are the very rare ones. 

 

As is well-known, good running, above all else, is paramount on LB (I think I might just have committed an act of tautology). I refuse to compromise on this. Some others can't compromise on the 'narrow gauge' or over-scale wheel standards, but they accept less-than-perfect running as a consequence. Each to their own.

 

So, even though not everything running on LB is exactly right for a summer's day in 1958 (though there is more than enough stock to maker it so), it runs................and runs, and runs........................

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

 

The word contemporaneous comes to mind... things happening around a similar period of time. Perhaps in the case of LB you are looking at a slightly broader period than “The summer of ‘58”, but certainly well within your living memory either side of that date. And why not?

 

I faced similar temporal issues in defining my own layout’s timescale, perhaps we all do. I have settled on mid-1949 to embrace the broad variety of late grouping transitioning through early nationalisation liveries. This is my ‘core’ project which I want to keep as pure as possible, but because my wider interests embrace a rather longer timescale then I will also need to have more liberal interpretation at times.

 

The other area I am agonising over is the station name. At least with LB you have been able to accurately model a specific location, that is undoubtedly LB. I have rather tighter space constraints that forces rather greater compromise on my chosen location of Leicester Central, impacting on some of the track layout and platform length. It won’t fit into the space I have available, but I intend to model as much as I can, as accurately as I can. I have seen many models carrying the name of a particular location, that bear no resemblance to the real location whatsoever... they are unrecognisable. So In my mind I have the question, how divorced from reality can a model be, before it no longer deserves to carry the prototype’s name and falls into the realm of fiction? I would be interested in people’s views on this...

 

Phil.

[St Enodoc]

The word contemporaneous comes to mind... things happening around a similar period of time. Perhaps in the case of LB you are looking at a slightly broader period than “The summer of ‘58”, but certainly well within your living memory either side of that date. And why not?

 

I faced similar temporal issues in defining my own layout’s timescale, perhaps we all do. I have settled on mid-1949 to embrace the broad variety of late grouping transitioning through early nationalisation liveries. This is my ‘core’ project which I want to keep as pure as possible, but because my wider interests embrace a rather longer timescale then I will also need to have more liberal interpretation at times.

 

The other area I am agonising over is the station name. At least with LB you have been able to accurately model a specific location, that is undoubtedly LB. I have rather tighter space constraints that forces rather greater compromise on my chosen location of Leicester Central, impacting on some of the track layout and platform length. It won’t fit into the space I have available, but I intend to model as much as I can, as accurately as I can. I have seen many models carrying the name of a particular location, that bear no resemblance to the real location whatsoever... they are unrecognisable. So In my mind I have the question, how divorced from reality can a model be, before it no longer deserves to carry the prototype’s name and falls into the realm of fiction? I would be interested in people’s views on this...

 

Phil.

Leicester Victoria?

[St Enodoc]

Thanks John,

 

(By the way, my report on the BMRA Convention will be in the March issue of BRM - thanks for your help with this). 

 

I think concentration is the key word. Because I blather on far too much (really?), and, not being a woman (thus, unable to multi-task), I don't concentrate on LB's operation. In 99% of cases, a 'failure' in LB's operating sequence is down to operator error - not setting a correct road, not pulling the right switch, not checking that a loco is really on the road after changing it, and so on. It's almost as if a 'perfect' sequence can only be achieved if nobody talks! This would be intolerable (especially for me!), so the odd mistake is accepted. Usually, nothing is harmed. However, the other day in operating with Andy Sparkes, I forgot to change the point and insert the barrier to the cassette system after using it, and Andy just caught a B1 and its pick-up as it made for the floor. First slip should be his position on a cricket field! Obviously, I was talking too much. 

 

An ideal operating team for LB is four - Up driver, Down driver, signalman and fiddle yard operator. The signalman's duty is also the cassette-operator as well - fewer chances of disaster. Just over two hours' continuous operation is about enough, especially with the talking.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

Andy has now joined Jesse as a top train catcher!

[jamie92208]

Rule 1 also applies on Green Ayre.   Why else would a scratch built Midland Baldwin appear in 1923 when they were all withdrawn round about the start of WW1.  The answer, very simply a)    there's a photo of it on shed at Lancaster, b)because I like it and c) Ray Clasper built a lovely model of it. I also installed a 60' turntable instead of the correct 50 footer in case any 4-6-0's get built. The 1923 date allows me to run pre grouping stock from surrounding railways, ie, L & Y, Furness and LNWR. However if anyone wants to argue about the number of rivets on Greyhound Bridge, I'm happy to argue the point as it was built from the original drawings.

 

Jamie

Edited December 1, 2018 by jamie92208

[Chamby]

Leicester Victoria?

Exactly!

[Compound2632]

sixty percent, is the usually quoted percentage of pre grouping carriages in LNER booked stock at Nationalization.

 

Although the proportion was presumably rather lower on the ECML out in the country, where the majority of passenger trains were long-distance expresses. Were there any ex-GNR or ex-ECJS carriages still marshalled in such trains in the immediate post-war years? 

[Clive Mortimore]

Phil,

 

I must admit to being a bit 'flexible' in the exact time period with regard to LB's schedule.

 

I recall watching trains on the road over bridge at Babworth, just north of Retford Station, one evening, in the late summer of 1958. To my astonishment, a brand new D207 appeared, heading north, on the Down Afternoon Talisman. 

 

A month or so later, I saw it again, but this time on the Pullman Master Cutler, which stopped at Retford in both directions. In my experience, it was the only passenger train which went from the GC to the GN and vice versa at Retford. Since the Afternoon Talisman is usually rostered for a Pacific on LB, then, having a model of D207, I needed a duty for it. Hence, the slightly anomalous Master Cutler. No more anomalous than the prototype Deltic,which, according to sources, arrived on the GN in 1959.

 

I suppose this is where I part company with the absolute purists. Those who run to a really strict period, even down to a specific month, week, or even a day! My model-making motivation is from my own trainspotting years. When I started (in 1955/'56), other than the Ivatt pair and the Bulleid trio, there were no main line diesels operating on BR. When I finished (in 1962/'63), the Deltics were blazing their unsurpassed trails. Thus, when Andy was here, an A3 with an early emblem and single chimney merrily romped south, just before TULYAR blasted north on the Down Tees-Tyne Pullman. The latter train is even more anomalous, because LB Station was closed and demolished in the summer of 1959 - before the production Deltics appeared and before the Mk.1 Pullmans as well!

 

Do I hear cries of indignant outrage? 

 

I think I might have surprised Andy with my occasional 'cavalier' approach to accuracy on LB. I think 'Rule 1' might well have applied, in that it's my trainset and.......................

 

Where I won't compromise is with regard to a few principles I apply. These include making things for myself (not everything, of course, but definitely locos and passenger rolling stock). Those things must be as 'accurate' as I can make them, even though two 'accurate' locos appearing together might be, time-wise, anomalous (slightly). And, whatever I make must work - really well. No stuttering, no shorting, no hesitations on starting; quiet and powerful in operation and NO derailments. The last point is an ideal, usually achieved but there are the very rare ones. 

 

As is well-known, good running, above all else, is paramount on LB (I think I might just have committed an act of tautology). I refuse to compromise on this. Some others can't compromise on the 'narrow gauge' or over-scale wheel standards, but they accept less-than-perfect running as a consequence. Each to their own.

 

So, even though not everything running on LB is exactly right for a summer's day in 1958 (though there is more than enough stock to maker it so), it runs................and runs, and runs........................

 

Regards,

 

Tony.    

Hello Tony

 

I don't know, bending the rules to suit yourself, you will become like most of us a train set driver.

 

Unless someone has comprehensive notes from 27th June 1957 for a location any deviation, intentional or not leads to "It could be like this". The land most of us model in. 

 

My layout is supposed to be set in Sheffield, mainly because of the variety of stock I can potentially I can run if the L&YR and GNR  had their own (joint) station instead of relying on the MS&LR lines to enter the city. I know people were trying to be helpful but I did find a lot of the "you must have XYZ"  not relevant to my make believe location. I aim to make it look as realistic as possible but I know it is fictitious. As long it achieves is aim of being FUN, I don't care.......presently a 2x 2car Cravens DMU is going one way and the opposite is a BR Type 2 Bo-Bo with a four coach train of BR non-gangway coaches and I have Camp Cope playing on the sound system, see FUN.

Edited December 1, 2018 by Clive Mortimore

[thegreenhowards]

Although the proportion was presumably rather lower on the ECML out in the country, where the majority of passenger trains were long-distance expresses. Were there any ex-GNR or ex-ECJS carriages still marshalled in such trains in the immediate post-war years?

 

Yes. See kitchen car above! Although probably only in reliefs/ excursions.

 

Some of the GNR twins (218CC and 218DD) were also still around. Tony put up a picture of a 218DD quite recently.