Wright writes.....

[cctransuk]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Every time there work is featured ...

 

Please Sir - is that a detention offence?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Clem]

3 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

Please Sir - is that a detention offence?

Yes, I noticed that but it seemed like a bit of a cheap shot to mention it. But now you have.... :-)

Edited April 30, 2019 by Clem
clarification

[cctransuk]

2 minutes ago, Clem said:

Yes, I noticed that but it seemed like a bit of a cheap shot to mention it. But now you have.... :-)

 

..... it's just that they stand out like a sore thumbs in Tony's writings; I don't know why!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Chamby]

1 hour ago, Mallard60022 said:

Would anyone agree that History is that which happened, from just a few minutes ago to the dawn of time, but then is only seen by others from someone's interpretation of what happened, including perhaps their own version(s) ? Not sure I've asked that very clearly but I shall leave it as it is.

Phil

 

The older I get, the more I am aware that today is tomorrow’s history.   My experiences in this hobby, the information that I seek about the time I am modelling, makes me realise that perhaps someone in the future will be in a similar situation regarding where I am right here and now.

 

Twenty years ago I started modelling a Swiss metre gauge railway, as I saw it then.  Within five years it had changed dramatically, what I was modelling was already history.  The station track layout, the rolling stock liveries, a new class of locomotive replacing the older stuff, the wooden catenary poles replaced...  how I wished I had taken more photographs at the time.

 

It is easy to see the modern stuff running around today as an abomination compared to the glory of the railway’s heyday.  But I have to remember how my own attitude has changed towards blue era diesels... at the time I hated them (deltics excepted) as I saw them as lacking in character and somehow responsible for the demise of steam.  Now, I recall them all with nostalgia, back in the day when most trains were still hauled by an engine.

 

It is all sobering stuff.

[Tony Wright]

11 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Please Sir - is that a detention offence?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Oh dear!

 

A detention offence? Hardly, more a hearty thrashing!

 

I have no excuse; since corrected.

 

Thanks John.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[cctransuk]

4 minutes ago, Chamby said:

But I have to remember how my own attitude has changed towards blue era diesels... at the time I hated them (deltics excepted) as I saw them as lacking in character and somehow responsible for the demise of steam.  Now, I recall them all with nostalgia, back in the day when most trains were still hauled by an engine.
 

 

Nah - not me !

 

The world ended when the last BR steam loco dropped it's fire.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[johnarcher]

4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Clive,

 

Am I the only trainspotter out there who never had the Thomas books? 

 

Did I miss them as a child? When were they first published? I was a nipper in the early-'50s, but I don't remember them. I was bought railway books then, such as The Railway Album and The Eagle Book of Trains (still got them), but never Thomas. That said, having read them to my sons, I don't think I missed out!  

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I'm the same generation Tony, and never had them either.

But then I was never a trainspotter either.  Am I in entirely the wrong place?

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Bob Reid said:

First published for Awdry in 1945 apparently...

 

Thanks Bob,

 

So, the year before I was born.

 

I have to thank my parents for buying me the other books mentioned. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

14 minutes ago, johnarcher said:

I'm the same generation Tony, and never had them either.

But then I was never a trainspotter either.  Am I in entirely the wrong place?

I don't think you're in the wrong place, John,

 

Though it's unusual to find a bloke from my generation who was not a trainspotter as a lad. All my classmates were, as were my male cousins and friends from other schools. As was my brother.

 

I think trainspotting was a particular post-War phenomenon, especially among young boys. I never knew a girl trainspotter, not even the sisters of trainspotting mates. When I was taking railway pictures in the '60s, '70s and the early-'80s, trainspotting among lads still seemed popular, though the methodology had changed. At Doncaster, one day in the mid-'70s, boys were speaking numbers into their (correct use this time, please note!) tape recorders, and taking rubbings of Deltics' nameplates.  One of the schools I taught at in Wolverhampton had a boundary with the Wolverhampton-Shrewsbury line, and quite a few of the boys would trainspot at lunchtimes. When I left in the early-/mid-'90s there was none. 

 

Picking up a mate from Grantham Station last year, I noticed one trainspotter. He wasn't a boy, though. He tried to engage me in conversation, but I made my excuses - and fled! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited April 30, 2019 by Tony Wright
typo error

[Tony Wright]

20 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Nah - not me !

 

The world ended when the last BR steam loco dropped it's fire.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Really!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[APOLLO]

Born in 1952 my earliest memories were of 8F's & WD's plodding over the Westwood - Wigan L&Y Pemberton loop line Liverpool bound with Yorkshire coal back in the late 50's / early 60's.  A grand view from my parents bedroom. Thomas books - I had them all, along with my Tri-ang TT back in the early 60's (which I still have). Trainspotting on the WCML just south of Wigan, both WCML & L&Y. 10 minute walk from home. We were spoiled for choice  back then.!! Diesels - yes they were always there - EE Type 4's and then new DMU's - they all "fitted in" back then. I Vaguely remembered the last Scots and Semis etc. It was Black 5's, 8's, 9F's and Brits for me, hence my admiration for Tony's ECML at it's zenith, something I really wished to see but never saw (until the 70's). 

 

THIS is how I remember steam, this is what I attempt to model. Mucky old nameless Brit northbound express at Springs Branch, late 60's.

 

 

Brit15

 

 

 

 

Edited April 30, 2019 by APOLLO

[RThompson]

Thomas the tank engine the TV series narrated by Ringo Starr (as I'm a millennial) got me into railways. Was never really bought books or magazines but videos of past and preserved railways. Certainly helped with my knowledge and interest.

 

I did on Saturdays though, used to stand on Streatham common station and photograph all the trains and then started exploring the rest of London on a Travelcard.

 

My interest in London buses stopped after 2005 as the last of the proper Routemasters was withdrawn and all the step entrance buses withdrawn before then.

Edited April 30, 2019 by RThompson

[Clem]

7 hours ago, APOLLO said:

Born in 1952 my earliest memories were of 8F's & WD's plodding over the Westwood - Wigan L&Y Pemberton loop line Liverpool bound with Yorkshire coal back in the late 50's / early 60's.  A grand view from my parents bedroom. Thomas books - I had them all, along with my Tri-ang TT back in the early 60's (which I still have). Trainspotting on the WCML just south of Wigan, both WCML & L&Y. 10 minute walk from home. We were spoiled for choice  back then.!! Diesels - yes they were always there - EE Type 4's and then new DMU's - they all "fitted in" back then. I Vaguely remembered the last Scots and Semis etc. It was Black 5's, 8's, 9F's and Brits for me, hence my admiration for Tony's ECML at it's zenith, something I really wished to see but never saw (until the 70's). 

 

THIS is how I remember steam, this is what I attempt to model. Mucky old nameless Brit northbound express at Springs Branch, late 60's.

Beautifully recalled! Yes, I think those of us of a certain age were blessed. Blessed with the preponderance of steam. Blessed with the childhood freedom that is no longer available to most kids. I mentioned to some friends who had come over for dinner that I ventured on my own from my home in Nottingham to Lincoln, Newark, Grantham, Derby, Crewe and Tamworth mainly off my own bat when I was seven and eight years old and they almost died of shock and horror. It just wouldn't happen these days and if it did, the parents would be facing losing their kids to care. But it was extremely common in those days. You'd travel anywhere up to 70 miles to trainspot and come across people you knew locally... And that joy of seeing a class of loco for the first time where you'd only seen it in photos.... Magic!

[petrovich]

31 minutes ago, Clem said:

Beautifully recalled! Yes, I think those of us of a certain age were blessed. Blessed with the preponderance of steam. Blessed with the childhood freedom that is no longer available to most kids. I mentioned to some friends who had come over for dinner that I ventured on my own from my home in Nottingham to Lincoln, Newark, Grantham, Derby, Crewe and Tamworth mainly off my own bat when I was seven and eight years old and they almost died of shock and horror. It just wouldn't happen these days and if it did, the parents would be facing losing their kids to care. But it was extremely common in those days. You'd travel anywhere up to 70 miles to trainspot and come across people you knew locally... And that joy of seeing a class of loco for the first time where you'd only seen it in photos.... Magic!

Totally agree Clem, I was lucky in that living in Central London I could bus hop to all the big Four Termini and then travel a few miles to their local sheds hence the variety of sightings in my ABC's. Never had a problem, no mobile phones, ah they were the days.

 

P.S. No they were not, we had big smogs you could not see past the next lampost, most people died before aged 70, I had to have a job for pocket money, I had two in fact an evening paper round and a milk round very early in the morning and go to school in between, and the less said about our outdoor privy the better. 

 

Regards

 

Peter

[thegreenhowards]

 

Duplicate post

Edited May 1, 2019 by thegreenhowards
Duplicate post

[thegreenhowards]

12 hours ago, Headstock said:

 My annotated ( not by myself, original owner) CWN's would give The Green Howards a surprise or two.

 

Andrew,

 

That sounds like a challenge! I know the CWNs are not perfect, but they are the best source we have and I think they’re pretty accurate for the main trains. I always try to find photos as well, but it can be like looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack as how many photos clearly show the whole train? For secondary expresses, I know that Mark 1s were often substituted by Thompsons or Gresleys, and I occasionally try to replicate this as in the video of one of the Kings Cross- Cleethorpes services (I’m away so had to rely on an archive video) which has a Thompson SK and a Gresley BSK substituting for Mark 1s.

 

 

Do you have any ECML snippets from your CWNs you could share? Particularly any excuse to use LNER stock vice Mark 1s! Or, given that we were talking about it recently and the coach is approaching completion, any use of a Thompson BSK(3) on the Norseman.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Mallard60022]

I saw a girl trainspotter once, somewhere on a smaller station near Crewe I think it was Must have been late 70s or early 80s? Never, ever knowingly saw one in steam days, but sadly that particular gender of person 'distracted' me from railways around 1963/64. However, steam had almost disappeared from 83D/84A(could never quite accept that last code) by then. Stupidly I forgot that there was still real steam just up the rails at 72A/83D (could never quite accept that code either) until September 1964 and then, lingering for a couple of years. Sadly 'the rot' had well and truly set in by then. Pah!

Fortunately sanity returned in 1967, although that will be disputed by many

Phil

Edited May 1, 2019 by Mallard60022

[Headstock]

22 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

 

Andrew,

 

That sounds like a challenge! I know the CWNs are not perfect, but they are the best source we have and I think they’re pretty accurate for the main trains. I always try to find photos as well, but it can be like looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack as how many photos clearly show the whole train? For secondary expresses, I know that Mark 1s were often substituted by Thompsons or Gresleys, and I occasionally try to replicate this as in the video of one of the Kings Cross- Cleethorpes services (I’m away so had to rely on an archive video) which has a Thompson SK and a Gresley BSK substituting for Mark 1s.

 

 

Do you have any ECML snippets from your CWNs you could share? Particularly any excuse to use LNER stock vice Mark 1s! Or, given that we were talking about it recently and the coach is approaching completion, any use of a Thompson BSK(3) on the Norseman.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Morning Andy,

 

Yes, but it doesn't go very far, in that my notes in Yeadons say, southern end brake, Thompson BTK (3), two photographs, see CWN annotation. Unfortunatly it is disconected from source and is not triggering any memories at present.

[grahame]

10 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Nah - not me !

 

The world ended when the last BR steam loco dropped it's fire.

 

 

For me that was when the scales fell off my eyes and I could peer through the smoky gloom and see that railways were exciting, new and had a future. Dunno what happened to it thou.

 

G.

[Clive Mortimore]

43 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

I saw a girl trainspotter once, somewhere on a smaller station near Crewe I think it was Must have been late 70s or early 80s? Never, ever knowingly saw one in steam days, but sadly that particular gender of person 'distracted' me from railways around 1963/64. However, steam had almost disappeared from 83D/84A(could never quite accept that last code) by then. Stupidly I forgot that there was still real steam just up the rails at 72A/83D (could never quite accept that code either) until September 1964 and then, lingering for a couple of years. Sadly 'the rot' had well and truly set in by then. Pah!

Fortunately sanity returned in 1967, although that will be disputed by many

Phil

I use to work with a lady who when younger went trainspotting with her brothers. She was very knowledgeable on GER/BR ER steam. She bought her son a train set one Xmas, it stayed in its box.

[drmditch]

My early days at primary school (circa 1956/57) were blighted by boring reading materials such as 'Janet and John'. It was my Grandfather who saved me by introducing me to the original Rev'd W Audrey books. I went from those to Jennings (no pictures) in about two weeks! This is why I currently have a problem with space for more bookshelves. That the largest room in the house is given over to my railway may also be a consequence.

 

I can't remember quite where at the moment, but I recently read a comment by a late 1940s Magistrate condemning 'this pernicious hobby of 'trainspotting''.

[cctransuk]

10 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Really!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Reporting for detention, (or worse!), Sir.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[landscapes]

1 hour ago, Mallard60022 said:

I saw a girl trainspotter once, somewhere on a smaller station near Crewe I think it was Must have been late 70s or early 80s? Never, ever knowingly saw one in steam days, but sadly that particular gender of person 'distracted' me from railways around 1963/64. However, steam had almost disappeared from 83D/84A(could never quite accept that last code) by then. Stupidly I forgot that there was still real steam just up the rails at 72A/83D (could never quite accept that code either) until September 1964 and then, lingering for a couple of years. Sadly 'the rot' had well and truly set in by then. Pah!

Fortunately sanity returned in 1967, although that will be disputed by many

Phil

Hi 

 

My sister use to come trainspotting with me in the mid sixties she was about 10 years old then.

 

I once took her with me to Nine Elms MPD around the end of 1966 just before the shed closed so was was quite easy just to walk in.

 

One of the drivers invited us up on the footplate of a West Country class locomotive, my sister wore a coat with a hood.

 

It was only when we went with him to wash our hands in the drivers mess room that he then realised my sister was a girl.

 

Happy days

 

David

Edited May 1, 2019 by landscapes

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, thegreenhowards said:

 

Andrew,

 

That sounds like a challenge! I know the CWNs are not perfect, but they are the best source we have and I think they’re pretty accurate for the main trains. I always try to find photos as well, but it can be like looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack as how many photos clearly show the whole train? For secondary expresses, I know that Mark 1s were often substituted by Thompsons or Gresleys, and I occasionally try to replicate this as in the video of one of the Kings Cross- Cleethorpes services (I’m away so had to rely on an archive video) which has a Thompson SK and a Gresley BSK substituting for Mark 1s.

 

 

Do you have any ECML snippets from your CWNs you could share? Particularly any excuse to use LNER stock vice Mark 1s! Or, given that we were talking about it recently and the coach is approaching completion, any use of a Thompson BSK(3) on the Norseman.

 

Regards

 

Andy

Interesting, Andy,

 

Thanks for posting. Do you normally run that fast through tight curves?

 

As you know, I've conducted a fair bit of research into making 'correct' ECML passenger trains for Little Bytham. The key word in all this is 'evidence'. 

 

I have most of the relevant BR carriage workings for my period, which represent an 'ideal'. The railway, like everything on Earth, is rarely ideal. 

 

I cross-reference the official documents with photographic evidence. May I present a few examples, please? Though I didn't take these pictures, they're all from my personal high-summer of trainspotting.

 

 

 

60002 descends Gamston Bank towards Retford with a Down express in the late-'50s. Note the Thompson Kitchen Car in this mainly Mk. 1 rake. My BR documents show a Kitchen Car in a Hull train, but what's a Tyneside-based A4 doing on that? The two leading Mk.1s represent a 'portion', probably for York. Only 'extreme modellers' would dent the front end of an A4 like that. Note also, the prominent flange at the base of the tender tank, once supporting a stainless steel strip for streamlined-train workings. Three streamlined non-corridor tenders had this. Miss it off the tenders of 60001, 60002 and 60507 and a model will be inaccurate. 

 

 

Just prior to receiving its (no apostrophe!) double chimney, in late-'57, 60007 ascends Gamston Bank with an Up express. None of my BR records describe this particular train - Mk.1 BSK (I think), all-door Gresley TK, Mk.1 SK, Gresley Brake, then several other Mk.1s. It's not in a SO working, either. 

 

 

60008 leaves Retford with an Up Newcastle express. This type of train is in my BR documents (most Newcastle expresses of the late-'50s had a Gresley triplet set in it, with the rest mainly Mk.1s). At least two of the cars are in carmine and cream.

 

 

I mentioned in an earlier post about never believing captions, and here's an example of that. The date of this picture at Stoke Tunnel is given as 1957 (note the electric warning flashes and the A4's double chimney). It's actually 1961, and the 64B A4 is on the Saturday 'Elizabethan', which was not non-stop - hence the reversed headboard. There is no BG (unusual) at the south end, and the RSO is now a Mk.1, as is the FK. The main body of the train is still Thompson PV stock, though. 

 

 

 

Another train make-up I can find no official evidence for. Could it be a Saturday working? Mk.1s, Thompson and Gresley end-door stock (what a pity Hornby didn't do those). Surely a great train to model? 

 

 

Mike Romans (The Stationmaster) tells me that this is the Up Northumbrian (with reversed headboard), though where is the ex-FS 1938 triplet? This one has turnbuckle trussing. And, nowhere in my records is a Gresley brake shown in the Newcastle consists of the late-'50s. 

 

 

This rake behind 60026 ascending Gamston has a rebuilt Gresley Buffet in its make-up. I'm still searching for this formation. 

 

 

Another Saturday 'Elizabethan, with the usual ten cars increased by two or three. This time the BG is present, but it's a Mk.1 not one of the usual Thompson trio. The date is the summer of 1960, and the set is made-up of the usual Thompson PV cars, with a couple of carmine and cream carriages towards the rear. 

 

As I say, 'evidence', and photographic evidence is the most-reliable, as long as dates can be verified.

 

To all, please observe copyright restrictions.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

43 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Reporting for detention, (or worse!), Sir.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

One hundred lines, I think!

 

Regards,

 

Tony.