Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

3 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Afternoon copleyhill007,

 

It's still the same type of tender, ie flush sided welded tank. Hornby don't cater for those engines that had for example, the riveted tank with the separate coping plate, they don't produce the converted tenders from ex NE C9's or those with prominent snap head rivets. Nor do they include the final batch with squared off frames. I hope that is of help.     

Thanks for that, Andrew,

 

How about a self-weighing tender?

 

 

Or a flush-sided one? NE-style smokebox door, no studs on buffer beam, AWS and no shedplate.

 

I think the Hornby B1 is a fine model at source, but definitely needs tweaking in some areas (including both chimney and dome).

 

 

 

These were the first two models issued, in 2011/12 (I think). I felt the cabside numbers on the BR version were placed too high.  

 

 

This position is more typical.

 

 

Nonetheless, with a new identity, a change of chimney and bogie wheels, some little tweaking and a Tom Foster weathering job, and I can use this on LB. 

 

 

 

Hornby's Scottish-based example, with those 'welded-in' corners. They even provided a different-style smokebox door. I know the 'running-qualities' of Hornby's pony/bogie wheels have been praised, but do those bogie wheels look like anything fitted to LNER locos? Or any others?

 

 

Another one with an NE-style 'door.

 

 

And one with the GN-style 'door. Prominent stretcher plate on bogie (Hornby - and others - have a horrid pocket thing sticking out from theirs) and substantial studs on buffer beam. This type of 'door would appear to have a footstep welded to it - full marks to Hornby for fitting this on their model with it. 

 

 

And another with the hinges close together. Usual wiggle in the lighting conduit. And, just look at that fantastic point rodding! 

 

 

When Bachmann brought out their latest B1 with a much-improved chassis, I acquired one. I changed the bogie wheels and altered its identity, but subsequently sold it on. Here it is alongside my renumbered/detailed Hornby one (though prior to Tom Foster weathering it). I hope the new owner is still happy with it.

 

Food for thought in all the above? 

 

Please, let's see some more pictures of B1 models.

 

For all, please observe copyright restrictions on prototype pictures.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 29, 2019 by Tony Wright
to clarify a point

[Tony Wright]

Further to B1 models...............

 

Has anyone built a Pro-Scale B1? I was offered one, part-built, but the boiler diameter looked the same as that of an original 'Royal Scot'!

Edited April 29, 2019 by Tony Wright
typo error

[jwealleans]

Here are some you might see at Ely show next month, Tony:

 

 

 

 

 

The first by Graham Varley from the DMR kit.  i think Graham has now sold this on. 

 

The other two are both Hornby and represent the batch which went to Ipswich from the start of their careers.  61058, done for the late Michael Murfitt, is taken from a picture in 'LNER 4-6-0s', while my 61059 was apparently the depot pet and kept immaculate.  I'm told I've already overdone the weathering on it and i thought it was very clean.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 29, 2019 by jwealleans
Posted wrong picture.

[Ray Flintoft]

I've built a couple of Proscale B.1s but you do have to narrow the boiler which isn't the easiest of jobs . Also they have a sprung chassis which I found easier to solder up rigid to get good running ! The tender is very good though , although if I needed any more B.1s I would go down the modified Hornby route .

 Hope this helps .

                               Ray .

[Michael Edge]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Further to B1 models...............

 

Has anyone built a Pro-Scale B1? I was offered one, part-built, but the boiler diameter looked the same as that of an original 'Royal Scot'!

I built one once, can't locate a photo of it at the moment. I did throw away the boiler as I recall...

[Tony Wright]

55 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

Here are some you might see at Ely show next month, Tony:

 

 

 

 

 

The first by Graham Varley from the DMR kit.  i think Graham has now sold this on. 

 

The other two are both Hornby and represent the batch which went to Ipswich from the start of their careers.  61058, done for the late Michael Murfitt, is taken from a picture in 'LNER 4-6-0s', while my 61059 was apparently the depot pet and kept immaculate.  I'm told I've already overdone the weathering on it and i thought it was very clean.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Jonathan,

 

I didn't know DMR made a B1 kit. I've built Mike's B2 and K1, and was going to build his L1 until he pulled it when the Hornby RTR one appeared.

 

Some very nice B1s there. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

10 minutes ago, Mersey507003 said:

Hi Everyone 

 

Long time no speak

 

I have at least 3 locos which have a wobbling2 driving axle and I was wondering if anyone has any ideas on how to cure the issue.

 

The locos concerned are an ex Hornby A3 which I converted to a 4-6-4, a Hornby 2-6-4 fowler tank from which the rear 4 wheel bogie was removed and work done to use the chassis as a 2-6-2 with a kitbuilt V2 body and the 3rd is Bachmann A1 60163 Tornado. 

 

Whdn I run them with the right hand side of the locos facing me I have noticed a wobble on the 2nd driving axle.

 

I am wondering if the wobble could be reduced by sleeving the axles in a suitably sized copper tubing on both sides of the drive cogs and how the pieces could be secured in place without using glue.

 

Thankyou all in advance for any replies given. 

 

P.S. :  I have no idea how to submit a video so that I can show the problem but if a video will help then I will just have to attempt to post 1 at a later date.

You've identified a common problem with RTR chassis, Mersey,

 

Whether it's a wobbly driving wheel or not, because even large RTR steam-outline locos are expected to go around train set curves, there's always a large amount of inherent slop in the frames. This also impacts on the wiper pick-ups, resulting in their not always making good contact. Though I have very few RTR locos on LB, those I've tested, almost without exception waddle from side as they run along. 

 

One 'cure' I've tried is to take some Peco one eighth fibre washers, and cut a piece out of each, just a bit tighter than one eighth (or whatever the axle diameter is). Then grip them firmly in pointed-nosed tweezers, forcing them over the axles between the backs of the wheels and the frames. Two each side is usually enough (though the chassis then won't go round really tight curves). It isn't an absolute fix, but it does stop some of the waddling. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.   

[Headstock]

61381 of Leicester shed. A much striped down Replica body on a Comet chassis, Comet and scratch built valve gear, scratch cylinders and cab interior.  The superb Bradwell Dome, Chimney and Smokebox door, Bradwell tender and other manufactures components.

 

61381 has the GN(?) smokebox door, second style of electric lighting, flush bufferbeam, the later style spindly cab steps with the flush sided welded tender and straight edged frames. The rear division plate is in the original position.

 

How I miss the days when you could wander around even the most average exhibition and pick up a multitude of excellent bits and pieces for future projects. 61381 was built by my Dad and I a century ago.

 

Photo courtesey of Derek Shore.

 

The train is the York Swansea, WR set.

 

Edited April 29, 2019 by Headstock
add info

[APOLLO]

My tatty old Replica B1 with wonky wheels and noisy drive is now permanently parked within my carriage sidings renumbered Departmental Loco No 30 (was 61050).

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNER_Thompson_Class_B1

 

The real No 30 was shedded at Canklow in her final steam heating days.

 

Last two (non departmental) B1's in Yorkshire ?, on Wakefield shed (then closed and a collection point for withdrawn locos), awaiting tho tow to the scrap yard. 61123 & 61189 Sir William Gray 7th October 1967

 

 

Brit15

 

 

 

 

Edited April 29, 2019 by APOLLO

[landscapes]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks for that, Andrew,

 

How about a self-weighing tender?

 

 

Or a flush-sided one? NE-style smokebox door, no studs on buffer beam, AWS and no shedplate.

 

I think the Hornby B1 is a fine model at source, but definitely needs tweaking in some areas (including both chimney and dome).

 

 

 

These were the first two models issued, in 2011/12 (I think). I felt the cabside numbers on the BR version were placed too high.  

 

 

This position is more typical.

 

 

Nonetheless, with a new identity, a change of chimney and bogie wheels, some little tweaking and a Tom Foster weathering job, and I can use this on LB. 

 

 

 

Hornby's Scottish-based example, with those 'welded-in' corners. They even provided a different-style smokebox door. I know the 'running-qualities' of Hornby's pony/bogie wheels have been praised, but do those bogie wheels look like anything fitted to LNER locos? Or any others?

 

 

Another one with an NE-style 'door.

 

 

And one with the GN-style 'door. Prominent stretcher plate on bogie (Hornby - and others - have a horrid pocket thing sticking out from theirs) and substantial studs on buffer beam. This type of 'door would appear to have a footstep welded to it - full marks to Hornby for fitting this on their model with it. 

 

 

And another with the hinges close together. Usual wiggle in the lighting conduit. And, just look at that fantastic point rodding! 

 

 

When Bachmann brought out their latest B1 with a much-improved chassis, I acquired one. I changed the bogie wheels and altered its identity, but subsequently sold it on. Here it is alongside my renumbered/detailed Hornby one (though prior to Tom Foster weathering it). I hope the new owner is still happy with it.

 

Food for thought in all the above? 

 

Please, let's see some more pictures of B1 models.

 

For all, please observe copyright restrictions on prototype pictures.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

Hi Tony

 

This is Hornby's latest B1 No 61032 Stembok which I renumbered and renamed to represent a member of the class which I have photos of at Haymarket MPD No 61025 Pallah.

 

Regards

 

David

[micklner]

Hornby B1 renamed and numbers. The only one that match the Hornby specification , Hornby's excellent lining and paint.

 

 

 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, landscapes said:

Hi Tony

 

This is Hornby's latest B1 No 61032 Stembok which I renumbered and renamed to represent a member of the class which I have photos of at Haymarket MPD No 61025 Pallah.

 

Regards

 

David

Thanks David,

 

Thanks for showing this. The weathering is excellent.

 

Two points if I may, please? 

 

The angle of the return crank is completely wrong, and will impart the wrong movement in motion. It needs to lean forwards, not backwards. And, it really is worth changing the bogie wheels.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[cctransuk]

Some thoughts on 'building it yourself', and the progress made during the last half century or so ......

 

I think that I mentioned here that I have been rechassising a Bulleid Light Pacific, that I built in the late 1970s from an Airfix kit on a Tri-ang 'Princess' chassis, fitted with Tri-ang Bulleid wheels. The 'new' chassis comprised a 1970s Kemilway etched kit, fitted with late 20th century Markits Bulleid wheels, an Ultrascale 40:1 gearset and, in keeping with the late 1970s design of the chassis, a brand new Romford Bulldog motor.

 

All this went together as originally intended, and the Kemilway chassis lived up to its reputation as being well in advance of its time. Whilst mechanically it ran very well, it sounded like a steam road-roller; (that'll sort out the modellers 'of a certain age' amongst you)!

 

As I also have the Hornby 'Wilton', which runs like a dream, I could not tolerate another WC that looked as good, but sounded appalling. So - I decided to replace the Bulldog motor with a High Level Hi-Flier gearbox combined with a Mitsumi motor. This took yesterday afternoon to acheive and - lo and behold - an almost silent loco that, if anything, runs better than Hornby's 'Wilton'.

 

The other project that I've mentioned here is my ancient Cotswold kit 'Jinty'; formerly fitted with a prehistoric Tri-ang 'sandwich' chassis and early Romford wheels. Today I assembled a Comet 'Jinty' chassis, fitted with latest-release Markits wheels; a High Level Roadrunner+ gearbox and another Mitsumi motor. Everything was built exactly as per instructions, with all the recommended hole sizes for bearings, etc.; the result - a chassis that ran like a sewing machine from the first application of volts to the motor; not even the tiniest tweek to a coupling rod bearing was required!

 

What these two recent projects have demonstrated to me - very forcibly - are the improvements in mechanism quality that we 'self-builders' have been able to achieve, over the past forty or fifty years, as a result of small but incremental improvements in the quality of the components that are available to us. Until I had once again built a wholly 1970s-era chassis, I had forgotten how far we've come in the sophistication of our mechanisms.

 

..... and what has changed? Precision, multi-stage gearboxes in place of simple worm / pinion drives, and instrument quality motors instead of rattly, slack-bearinged X04s (or similar).

 

Despite the n'er sayers, it is certainly possible to home-build chassis to the same, or better standard as today's RTR offerings; and the satisfaction gained by doing so will never be known by those who confine themselves to box-opening.

 

Sorry for the ramble!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Edited April 29, 2019 by cctransuk

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, micklner said:

Hornby B1 renamed and numbers. The only one that match the Hornby specification , Hornby's excellent lining and paint.

 

 

 

 

 

Neat work, Mick,

 

Thanks for showing.

 

One thing? I can't find a picture of a B1 in LNER livery (green or black) with numbers that high up on the cabside. Admittedly, I haven't found a shot of 1016. Was it unique in that respect? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

6 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

Some thoughts on 'building it yourself', and the progress made during the last half century or so ......

 

I think that I mentioned here that I have been rechassising a Bulleid Light Pacific, that I built in the late 1970s from an Airfix kit on a Tri-ang 'Princess' chassis, fitted with Tri-ang Bulleid wheels. The 'new' chassis comprised a 1970s Kemilway etched kit, fitted with late 20th century Markits Bulleid wheels, an Ultrascale 40:1 gearset and, in keeping with the late 1970s design of the chassis, a brand new Romford Bulldog motor.

 

All this went together as originally intended, and the Kemilway chassis lived up to its reputation as being well in advance of its time. Whilst mechanically it ran very well, it sounded like a steam road-roller; (that'll sort out the modellers 'of a certain age' amongst you)!

 

As I also have the Hornby 'Wilton', which runs like a dream, I could not tolerate another WC that looked as good, but sounded appalling. So - I decided to replace the Bulldog motor with a High Level Hi-Flier gearbox combined with a Mitsumi motor. This took yesterday afternoon to acheive and - lo and behold - an almost silent loco that, if anything, runs better than Hornby's 'Wilton'.

 

The other project that I've mentioned here is my ancient Cotswold kit 'Jinty'; formerly fitted with a prehistoric Tri-ang 'sandwich' chassis and early Romford wheels. Today I assembled a Comet 'Jinty' chassis, fitted with latest-release Markits wheels; a High Level Roadrunner+ gearbox and another Mitsumi motor. Everything was built exactly as per instructions, with all the recommended hole sizes for bearings, etc.; the result - a chassis that ran like a sewing machine from the first application of volts to the motor; not even the tiniest tweek to a coupling rod bearing was required!

 

What these two recent projects have demonstrated to me - very forcibly - are the improvements in mechanism quality that we 'self-builders' have been able to achieve, over the past forty or fifty years, as a result of small but incremental improvements in the quality of the components that are available to us. Until I had once again built a wholly 1970s-era chassis, I had forgotten how far we've come in the sophistication of our mechanisms.

 

..... and what has changed? Precision, multi-stage gearboxes in place of simple worm / pinion drives, and instrument quality motors instead of rattly, slack-bearinged X04s (or similar).

 

Despite the n'er sayers, it is certainly possible to home-build chassis to the same, or better standard as today's RTR offerings; and the satisfaction gained by doing so will never be known by those who confine themselves to box-opening.

 

Sorry for the ramble!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Don't apologise for any 'rambling', John,

 

I couldn't agree more!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Headstock]

7 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks David,

 

Thanks for showing this. The weathering is excellent.

 

Two points if I may, please? 

 

The angle of the return crank is completely wrong, and will impart the wrong movement in motion. It needs to lean forwards, not backwards. And, it really is worth changing the bogie wheels.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Evening Tony,

 

being a Darlington built loco it should also have a tender side coping plate.

[Barry O]

I have a Proscale B1. The boiler is far too large, the tender sides are two thin meaning you have difficulty keeping them flat while building the tender, th sprung chassis is an abomination...but otherwise not a bad kit, but not as good as the Hornby one I acquired more recently.

Baz

[landscapes]

9 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Evening Tony,

 

being a Darlington built loco it should also have a tender side coping plate.

Hi

what is a tender side coping plate?

Regards

David

 

[Headstock]

19 minutes ago, landscapes said:

Hi

what is a tender side coping plate?

Regards

David

 

 

Good morning David,

 

the Darlington built B1's didn't have flush sided tenders. They had a separate coping plate. The link below shows the prominent seem on 61025' tender were the coping plate is attached. Interestingly, this is the type of tender that Bachmann chose for their own B1 back in the day, despite it only being suitable for the Darlington batch. I hope that is of use.

 

 

[Chamby]

31 minutes ago, landscapes said:

Hi

what is a tender side coping plate?

Regards

David

 

 

Like a coping stone is used to cap and finish off a wall, a coping plate performs a similar function on the tender sides.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 30, 2019 by Chamby
Headstock beat me to it!

[Michael Edge]

Not exactly, this is the side of the coal space, attached to the the top of the tank which is a few inches above the plate join. They evolved over years from open coal rails, later plated over and finally solid plates. Other railways, notably the LMS, simply extended the tank sides upwards.

[Tony Wright]

39 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Good morning David,

 

the Darlington built B1's didn't have flush sided tenders. They had a separate coping plate. The link below shows the prominent seem on 61025' tender were the coping plate is attached. Interestingly, this is the type of tender that Bachmann chose for their own B1 back in the day, despite it only being suitable for the Darlington batch. I hope that is of use.

 

 

 

Good morning Andrew,

 

Using a picture from yesterday, it would appear 61033 (built at Darlington) has a flush-sided tender (or the coping plate is extremely thin). Did B1 tender swopping take place? Also note the extra little balance weight; a rare addition?

 

A further point; regarding the GN-style smokebox door, with the hingestraps close together, the welded-on footplate was necessary because the top lamp iron had to be fixed higher - above the numberplate - thus making it less-accessible for the fireman to fix a lamp on, if he were merely standing on the footplate. However, this was not universal, and I've found pictures of the GN-style door with no footstep and other styles of door with a step welded to them.

 

All of which goes to show how far should we go with regard to detail in making our models? I think you go further than I do with your approach, but then I (I assume) have built far more locos/carriages than you have (I am, of course, quite a bit older), and adopt a more 'sketch-book' approach. 

 

It is interesting, though, that Bachmann has chosen to make a coping plate B1 tender and Hornby a flush-sided one. The Hornby type would certainly seem to be the more-numerous. The most-unusual B1 tender types (other than the self-weighing one) were those rebuilt from NER ones, where there was no flange at all along the base of the tank between the footsteps (though they had a coping plate). 61039 STEINBOK was one which towed this sort (Darlington-built). I took a picture of this at Chester, when it was on a ramblers' excursion to Malpas, and never noticed! 

 

All of which reveals that several of my dozen or so B1s are probably towing the wrong tender!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[micklner]

11 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Neat work, Mick,

 

Thanks for showing.

 

One thing? I can't find a picture of a B1 in LNER livery (green or black) with numbers that high up on the cabside. Admittedly, I haven't found a shot of 1016. Was it unique in that respect? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Looks like it should have been a couple of mm lower. All sealed so sadly it will have to stay as it is !!

 

 

[Headstock]

33 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

 

Good morning Andrew,

 

Using a picture from yesterday, it would appear 61033 (built at Darlington) has a flush-sided tender (or the coping plate is extremely thin). Did B1 tender swopping take place? Also note the extra little balance weight; a rare addition?

 

A further point; regarding the GN-style smokebox door, with the hingestraps close together, the welded-on footplate was necessary because the top lamp iron had to be fixed higher - above the numberplate - thus making it less-accessible for the fireman to fix a lamp on, if he were merely standing on the footplate. However, this was not universal, and I've found pictures of the GN-style door with no footstep and other styles of door with a step welded to them.

 

All of which goes to show how far should we go with regard to detail in making our models? I think you go further than I do with your approach, but then I (I assume) have built far more locos/carriages than you have (I am, of course, quite a bit older), and adopt a more 'sketch-book' approach. 

 

It is interesting, though, that Bachmann has chosen to make a coping plate B1 tender and Hornby a flush-sided one. The Hornby type would certainly seem to be the more-numerous. The most-unusual B1 tender types (other than the self-weighing one) were those rebuilt from NER ones, where there was no flange at all along the base of the tank between the footsteps (though they had a coping plate). 61039 STEINBOK was one which towed this sort (Darlington-built). I took a picture of this at Chester, when it was on a ramblers' excursion to Malpas, and never noticed! 

 

All of which reveals that several of my dozen or so B1s are probably towing the wrong tender!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Good morning Tony,

 

quick reply as the stupid forum kicked me out again when I had almost completed a more comprehensive reply. Yes, some tender swapping did take place. I only need one and a half locomotives per train. Compromise is an essential quality in railway modelling, but I take a dim view of rewriting history. I must now depart the house, see you later.

[Bob Reid]

Capping plates or iron's were (as opposed to a brickies 'coping') to cover welded or in the case of carriages, screwed joints - more a decorative thing to hide exposed edges they were often used though to better seal a plate joint.

 

Bob.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Bob Reid
Edited to remove a duplicated word !