Wright writes.....

[Clem]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

So, yes, to me, what went before was far more interesting. However, one has to be into ones 70s to remember these things! 

Not quite, Tony - I'm 68 and still remember J5s the last of which went in 1955!

[grahame]

29 minutes ago, Clem said:

Not quite, Tony - I'm 68 and still remember J5s the last of which went in 1955!

 

Yep, I'm only 63 but remember steam trains. I remember as a young lad being lifted up on to the footplate of one when at a station with my parents (I think they arranged it). It was an unpleasant experience; dirty, sooty, smokey, cramped, hot and noisy. Put me right off wanting to be a train driver.

 

G

[CF MRC]

14 minutes ago, grahame said:

 

Yep, I'm only 63 but remember steam trains. I remember as a young lad being lifted up on to the footplate of one when at a station with my parents (I think they arranged it). It was an unpleasant experience; dirty, sooty, smokey, cramped, hot and noisy. Put me right off wanting to be a train driver.

 

G

I’m 64 and my only real recollection of the steam railway was being put on the footplate of a tank engine in Weymouth as a child.  I also remember standing in front of a toy shop on the same holiday and my father asking me if I would like a train set for Christmas. I said no, but one arrived nonetheless. Haven’t stopped since...

 

Tim

 

[Clive Mortimore]

Being slightly junior to many contributors my main railway interest are from the modernisation period, when the clean diesels took over from the dirty steam trains. When the journey time to London on a stopper from Bedford was reduced from 90 minutes to 60 minutes, the 127s had a lovely acceleration compared to LMS 2-6-4Ts. Even their replacements the 318s and 319s are now like my clothes, out of date and well worn, and are now being superseded.

 

I am committee member of Diesel and Electric Modellers United but I have no interest in the new, what livery are we in this week, trains. In fact I would be able to identify more on an Edwardian period Great Western layout than on a contemporary based layout.  We all have our period of modelling we enjoy, so DMUs weren't the devils trains they are trains from another time period. The real devils trains were the dusty bins when they barged out the lovely Mk1 OLE units that we had on the Ex GER line.

[jwealleans]

What a great shot.  Right in the middle, a mineral cut down for ordinary goods use, branded 'Not to be used for coal traffic' and what has someone loaded it with?  If it's not coal it's another bulk aggregate and that's exactly what it shouldn't be used for now it's been weakened by having the top planks sawn through.

 

There were a great many on the fly alterations made to wagons during the war which survived for a number of years afterwards but aren't modelled enough IMO. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 19, 2019 by jwealleans

[MJI]

My 116 DMU

 

 

 

 

Western Region, gangwayed, took 4 Lima vehicles and some resin DMS sections to do.

[Bucoops]

Got to agree that the dusty bins are just rubbish.

 

[Lecorbusier]

2 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Being slightly junior to many contributors my main railway interest are from the modernisation period, when the clean diesels took over from the dirty steam trains. When the journey time to London on a stopper from Bedford was reduced from 90 minutes to 60 minutes, the 127s had a lovely acceleration compared to LMS 2-6-4Ts. Even their replacements the 318s and 319s are now like my clothes, out of date and well worn, and are now being superseded.

 

 

Isn't it fascinating how we are all products of our time as well as our own tastes/prejudices.

 

Being a mere slip of a lad at 55 I missed steam completely (apart from the odd nostalgic holiday visit to the Talyllyn). I also suffered from Beeching etc and so had no nearby railway - transport was either bus or car. My experience of trains was later and limited to the 125s ..... and that during the period of running down BR prior to the privatisation programme.

 

So diesel trains including DMUs have always felt grubby, smelly, overcrowded, expensive, late & unreliable to me .... not great formative associations!

 

Perhaps it is not surprising therefore that I have a rose tinted view of the great days of steam ... Romance, speed, luxury, style and everything polished and gleaming ... from Edwardian splendour to 1920s/30s glamour.

 

Having returned to modelling and seen some of the wonderful things achieved, I now have a much broader, nuanced and pluralistic appreciation of the railways ... but that has not changed where my heart lies.

 

Perhaps if the humble DMU and diesel haulage had been consigned to history for 30 years, I might have a degree of nostalgia for a lost past ... but unfortunately that is not how I see things currently.

 

Having said that, watching an archive film of an early DMU travelling from Newcastle towards Carlisle with full view through the front window over the driver's shoulder is quite captivating!

Edited August 19, 2019 by Lecorbusier
For some reason wrote DRM instead of DMU ... must be the cricket!

[Allegheny1600]

Hi Tony, All,

I thought I'd just add my thoughts about DMU's, being another mere strip of a lad (of 54!).

While much of my formative years were spent abroad, my British spotting was at either Derby station and environs or at LB itself (thanks to my grandmother and other relatives) and at the time, I detested DMUs!

"Oh, another b0g unit" we spotters would say! I'm not sure whether I was following the crowd or I actually realised that here was a wasted opportunity for seeing a locomotive. The one good thing I agree upon, was the view out front if sat behind the driver, as long as the spoilsport didn't pull his blinds down.

Another thing that was unappealing was the original (to me!) livery of drab overall blue but later when units started being refurbished into white with a blue stripe or blue/grey, then they started to have appeal.

Now, of course, with a sea of plastic pigs all around, I can see the original units were really rather wonderful and certainly very enjoyable.

It's only taken approximately 40 years or so to change my mind!

Cheers,

John.

[davefrk]

All this talk of DMUs makes me happy.....

 

DMU buffers and mounting stools are in the new mould made this very morning, with more designs to follow.

 

More anon on the Lanarkshire Models thread.

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, Bucoops said:

Got to agree that the dusty bins are just rubbish.

 

So were the Mk1 slam door stock until the dusty bins arrived.

[Ncl]

Hi All. Would anyone know a good source of pre war LNER loco lamps please? 

 

Kind regards 

Nick 

Edited August 19, 2019 by Ncl

[Tony Wright]

5 hours ago, grahame said:

 

You looked but you didn't see (or is it you saw but didn't look?).

 

Surely it's a matter of personal choice and what interests an individual. I saw and remember steam trains but when I saw electric trains gliding effortlessly and silently around I thought wow, that's modern, that's what I like and found them more interesting.

 

But what is more interesting to one person doesn't mean that it has to be more interesting to others. Far too many assert that the steam era was a more interesting period in railway history than what followed but that doesn't make it so to everyone. Each to their own poison.

 

G

'You looked but you didn't see (or is it you saw but didn't look?).'

 

That's making a bit of a presumption, isn't it? 

 

I did look, but wasn't interested in the new DMUs. 

 

I think your aversion to steam trains (actually locomotives) comes from being exposed to them as a child, and (I suggest) being frightened, Grahame. How old were you at the time? Quite young? 

 

I was 'exposed' to steam locomotives (my first memory) as a child of five, in 1951, when my great aunt took me to Chester General and I saw 46254 CITY OF STOKE ON TRENT. It was probably in blue, but I don't remember that. Was I frightened? Not a bit. I was excited, exhilarated and enthralled - and hooked forever! 

 

As for others 'asserting' that the the steam era was more interesting than that which followed, examine the facts. Hundreds of thousands of boys (millions?) were trainspotters in the '50s/'early-60s. A load (but fewer) from the next generation carried on with the first-generation diesels and electrics, and a few more after that. How many are interested today? None! Not in today's railways. All the younger bods I've helped make models don't have the slightest interest in (especially current) diesels or electrics. They're building steam-outline locos. Why? Because they interest them far more. 

 

Sales of RTR steam-outline/-era products far outstrip those of diesel/electric/outline (though as my generation dies off, this will change). 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

Anyone know where this is, please?

 

 

And, continuing in the theme of being 'critical'. 

 

 

This is probably near three thousand quid's worth of LL A4, especially with full DCC on-board.

 

Might not one expect the tender to be correct? It's a cut-down at the rear one, which MALLARD towed in the '48 Exchanges. Except she lost it to WOODCOCK soon after. And, the front numberplate should have the incorrect style of '6'. 

 

 

[jwealleans]

Quote

Would anyone know a good source of pre war LNER loco lamps please? 

 

ModelU are my lamps of preference. 

 

Available here.

[Tony Wright]

Anyone know where this is, please?

 

 

Thanks in anticipation, and thanks to those who identified Skipton. 

[grahame]

8 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

'You looked but you didn't see (or is it you saw but didn't look?).'

 

That's making a bit of a presumption, isn't it? 

 

I did look, but wasn't interested in the new DMUs. 

 

I think your aversion to steam trains (actually locomotives) comes from being exposed to them as a child, and (I suggest) being frightened, Grahame.

 

Hmm, that's probably also rather presumptive. I wasn't frightened. I liked trains and railways before and afterwards, and I still do. I just wasn't enamoured by steam locomotives and found greater interest, excitement and exhilaration in diesels and electrics.

 

I accept that there are those who are interested in steam outline but there are some who don't seem to accept that there are also those who prefer alternative traction. The fact there was once a lot of people interested (but not now) in steam train spotting doesn't make it wrong to have an interest in D&E. These days there are a lot more things for people to be interested in that weren't around in the 50s and early 60s. And I wasn't aware that railway modelling was a competition as to what genre sells most or has most followers. The football team I support doesn't have as many supporters as say Manchester United, and I accept that, but it doesn't make those who support other teams wrong or that those teams don't play interesting football.  

 

Just because there are a lot of people who find something (like steam) interesting doesn't mean that it is, or that everyone else has to find it interesting. I certainly wouldn't support Manchester united or have an interest in steam locomotives just because there are more people who have an interest in them. But I do still have an big interest in railway modelling including making/modelling things I find of interest. And I can appreciate fine modelling of steamy type subjects.

 

G

 

 

[Denbridge]

3 hours ago, CF MRC said:

I’m 64 and my only real recollection of the steam railway was being put on the footplate of a tank engine in Weymouth as a child.  I also remember standing in front of a toy shop on the same holiday and my father asking me if I would like a train set for Christmas. I said no, but one arrived nonetheless. Haven’t stopped since...

 

Tim

 

I'm 57 and still vivid memories of my Uncle taking me to see the trains at Surbiton in 1966/7. The sights of what I now know were Bulleid pacifics and BR Standards made a huge impression on this youngster.

Edited August 19, 2019 by Denbridge
Spelling

[Lecorbusier]

3 hours ago, grahame said:

The fact there was once a lot of people interested (but not now) in steam train spotting doesn't make it wrong to have an interest in D&E.

I was always under the impression that train spotting as a hobby partially resulted from the lack of other entertainments at the time .... many talk about interest waining with the acceleration of youth culture in the early 60s and the growth in other entertainments. I have also heard that it had as much to do with the sheer variety of locomotives after the war and the fact that they were found all over the network. I wonder if in an alternative future where BR standard locos in increasing numbers became all that ran .....on into the 70s (assuming no change over to diesel and the phasing out of pre war locos) ..... whether things might have become equally dull ....even without the loss of steam?

Edited August 19, 2019 by Lecorbusier

[Clive Mortimore]

38 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

'You looked but you didn't see (or is it you saw but didn't look?).'

 

That's making a bit of a presumption, isn't it? 

 

I did look, but wasn't interested in the new DMUs. 

 

I think your aversion to steam trains (actually locomotives) comes from being exposed to them as a child, and (I suggest) being frightened, Grahame. How old were you at the time? Quite young? 

 

I was 'exposed' to steam locomotives (my first memory) as a child of five, in 1951, when my great aunt took me to Chester General and I saw 46254 CITY OF STOKE ON TRENT. It was probably in blue, but I don't remember that. Was I frightened? Not a bit. I was excited, exhilarated and enthralled - and hooked forever! 

 

As for others 'asserting' that the the steam era was more interesting than that which followed, examine the facts. Hundreds of thousands of boys (millions?) were trainspotters in the '50s/'early-60s. A load (but fewer) from the next generation carried on with the first-generation diesels and electrics, and a few more after that. How many are interested today? None! Not in today's railways. All the younger bods I've helped make models don't have the slightest interest in (especially current) diesels or electrics. They're building steam-outline locos. Why? Because they interest them far more. 

 

Sales of RTR steam-outline/-era products far outstrip those of diesel/electric/outline (though as my generation dies off, this will change). 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

How many kids who trainspotted in the 1950s would have done so if they had a telly, an I phone and and X box?

 

I have met loads of people slightly older than me who said when they were kids they went trainspotting, but today do not have an interest in railways. It was something to do in their spare time with their mates.  Kids today who play on line games are doing the same, something with their mates, just their mates might be on another continent not stood on the end of a cold and windy platform. I agree trainspotting is not popular today but kids have so many choices these days. Life has changed.

[Tony Wright]

11 minutes ago, grahame said:

 

Hmm, that's probably also rather presumptive. I wasn't frightened. I liked trains and railways before and afterwards, and I still do. I just wasn't enamoured by steam locomotives and found greater interest, excitement and exhilaration in diesels and electrics.

 

I accept that there are those who are interested in steam outline but there are some who don't seem to accept that there are also those who prefer alternative traction. The fact there was once a lot of people interested (but not now) in steam train spotting doesn't make it wrong to have an interest in D&E. These days there are a lot more things for people to be interested in that weren't around in the 50s and early 60s. And I wasn't aware that railway modelling was a competition as to what genre sells most or has most followers. The football team I support doesn't have as many supporters as say Manchester United, and I accept that, but it doesn't make those who support other teams wrong or that those teams don't play interesting football.  

 

Just because there are a lot of people who find something (like steam) interesting doesn't mean that it is, or that everyone else has to find it interesting. I certainly wouldn't support Manchester united or have an interest in steam locomotives just because there are more people who have an interest in them. But I do still have an big interest in railway modelling including making/modelling things I find of interest. And I can appreciate fine modelling of steamy type subjects.

 

G

 

 

I find this conversation rather bemusing Grahame,

 

Nobody on here has ever suggested that being interested in the steam era doesn't mean that nobody should be interested in any other period. Or that other periods are not interesting.

 

It's just a fact (not a presumption) that by far the greatest number of participants in this hobby (model or prototype) are interested in the steam era. Many (most?) are interested because it's what they saw in their formative years. Obviously, as I mentioned, that balance will alter as the likes of 'my' generation dies off. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[D9020 Nimbus]

Well, at 64 I remember steam trains, but mostly freight—J27s and Q6s mostly. Also saw A4s on parcels or express freight, but can't remember steam-hauled passenger trains. The trains I actually travelled on were those from Newcastle to the coast—either the Tyneside electrics on the North Tyneside loop (the 1938 Gresley stock) or the class 101 DMUs to South Shields. The latter were my favourites as you could travel at the front and have almost a driver's eye view. On one occasion there was single-line working with a pilotman.

The first time I travelled long distance was on an overnight corridor train—the sort of train that has disappeared altogether—hauled by a "Deltic" (guess which one). Not a fast train though, calling at Durham, Darlington, Northallerton, Thirsk, York, Selby, Doncaster, Retford, Newark, Grantham, Peterborough, Sandy, Stevenage and Finsbury Park...

[Tony Wright]

3 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

How many kids who trainspotted in the 1950s would have done so if they had a telly, an I phone and and X box?

 

I have met loads of people slightly older than me who said when they were kids they went trainspotting, but today do not have an interest in railways. It was something to do in their spare time with their mates.  Kids today who play on line games are doing the same, something with their mates, just their mates might be on another continent not stood on the end of a cold and windy platform. I agree trainspotting is not popular today but kids have so many choices these days. Life has changed.

I think you're right, Clive,

 

But why youngsters are not interested in today's railways is probably two-fold. For one, as you suggest, there are all the other 'modern' things to entice them and, two; perhaps they just find today's railways boring. Dead-boring! 

 

As an example, if I may? I went back to my home city of Chester some little time ago, and visited the General Station. Though cleaner than when I frequented it as a 'spotter (and as a daily commuter, near 50 years ago when I taught in Birkenhead - and yes, I travelled daily in DMUs!), what a desert! Where once were extensive carriage sidings, there are now pre-fab buildings and shrubs. The Western wing is no more, and there aren't near as many platforms in use. Weeds infest the running rails, the six great signal boxes have long gone and the trackwork has been rationalised beyond belief. 

 

A three-rail electric unit came in from the Wirral (third rail in Chester!). It stopped, waited a bit, then departed, to be replaced by another, identical one. My mind's eye went back to 60+ years ago, when such a service would have been hauled by 2-6-4Ts of Fowler, Stanier, Fairburn or BR Standard origins. Or a 'Crab' or Stanier 2-6-0. Or even an ex-GWR 2-6-2T. Or other steam types. Instead of terminating at Chester, that service would have reversed and been taken out towards Salop behind any variety of ex-GWR 4-6-0s (excepting a 'King'). At the adjacent platform, a 'Jub', 'Pat', Scot' or even a Semi would be waiting on a service to the N. Wales Coast, just as a 'Mickey' appeared on a Llandudno-Manchester express (complete with club car). At the other end of the station, perhaps a Standard 4-6-0 would be on a service to Whitchurch.

 

I wonder, standing at the end of Platform 4 (even on a cold, dank, winter's day), would I have shown an interest in a computer/phone/Ipad, compare to what I've just described? I wonder? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[grahame]

9 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

 

Nobody on here has ever suggested that being interested in the steam era doesn't mean that nobody should be interested in any other period. Or that other periods are not interesting.

 

 

There are those who have and continue to assert that DMUs/EMUs, modern railways and genres (other than steam) are not interesting or are less so than steam. They are even disparaging about modern liveries. And many I have spoken to when I tell of my interest react with abhorrence and say things like 'Nah, boring, dull, not interesting" and so on. It's not that those things are uninteresting but that they personally don't find them of interest (and they don't seem to understand that others might well have an interest in them). What they mean is that their personal interest is in steam (and that doesn't make other railway things not interesting). Sometimes I get the impression that there is an underlying implication that railways modellers should only be interested in steam.

 

I'm not sure that the numbers of participants following particular genres has any bearing on the validity of personal interests. Anyway these comment are just my personal observations and it's probably best to draw a line and not take it any further.

 

G

[Chamby]

1 hour ago, Ncl said:

Hi All. Would anyone know a good source of pre war LNER loco lamps please? 

 

Kind regards 

Nick 

 

Lanarkshire models and supplies. 

 

DCC concepts, for working ones.

 

Phil