Wright writes.....

[jwealleans]

I think there's a big difference between using RTR locos and RTR wagons. All the latter have to do is be pulled.

We'll take that discussion further this weekend, I suspect.....

[Barry O]

We'll take that discussion further this weekend, I suspect.....

Shame I am not with you all to take part in this discussion.

 

I am quite ham fisted but have tried my best at building kits, painting lining and weathering them. They may not be the best in the world but I do enjoy having something I have hosted.

 

I have lots of RTR stock as well. Most is weathered or modified but they fit in with my own idea of being OK.

 

Converting an Airfix brake van can take a number of paths but if you want to learn some basic skills using the existing kit parts it can be done. BUT unless you try it you may never learn. Having a mentor helps as they can get you to think through problems.

 

A lot of the people I help at weathering demos just need confidence. A good way of doing that is working with the demonstrators at Exhibitions.

 

Baz

[thegreenhowards]

Hi Andy,

 

before you chop off your vents I would caution against copying what other modelers have done. I'm not an expert on the triplet Restaurant cars so I would recommend a source such as Isinglass for the information you require. The link below would suggest that one type did have torpedo vents. Presumably, this is the original 1924 set?

 

http://www.edgson.net/html/gresley_153__7__triplet_rest_s.html

Thanks Andrew, I agree prototype photos are the best source of such info, but they're few and far between for coaches in the 1950s. Phil has got his torpedo vents right as there is a prototype photo of 1401/2/3 in the Steve Banks Model Rail article from 2006 (but I think he should have recessed doors at the extreme ends as this is a 1924 set - sorry Phil/ Gilbert!). I'm going to base mine on 1416/7/8 in the 1950s which was one of the Louis XIV sets for the 1928 Scotsman. There are plenty of photos of this set when it was new, and it clearly doesn't have the torpedo vents, just the two rectangular (Mike Trice / Shapeways) types. I just have to hope that the torpedo vents weren't a later addition, but this seems unlikely (I hope!).

 

Andy

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

 

In my defence, I think there's a big difference between using RTR locos and RTR wagons. All the latter have to do is be pulled. 

 

What????

 

You've gone down in my estimation young Mr W

 

Mike

[unclebobkt]

         None of our contributors match the derivation of the word "expert" explained to me many years ago by my-then technical director:

"x"          -      an unknown quantity

"spurt"    -      a drip under pressure

 

         Reminds me of a cartoon that I saw in a post-Brexit issue of the weekly magazine The Spectator -

  Three men sitting on the pavement, with their caps before them;  each had a placard hanging from a string around his neck.

  The  placards read: 'Ex-bookie.'; 'Ex-pollster.' & 'Ex-pert.'. 

 

          

Edited September 8, 2016 by unclebobkt

[grob1234]

Dear Tony,

 

I was wondering if I might share with you (and others) my latest efforts.

 

Sadly due to work commitments, numerous flying exams, tests and so on, my time at the bench has been somewhat limited. However, yesterday and today I have been able to spend some time on the hobby, I believe both examples constitute modelling, though they are from very different spheres of the hobby, perhaps showing some of the huge diversity we can emerge ourselves in.

 

First up my SE Finecast C12, 4527. This project obviously involved soldering and is my first go at a white metal kit. It went together OK, though I did have to do a bit too much fettling for my liking. Mostly due to my own mistakes. Its another Grantham based loco, and is currently fresh out of the shop, awaiting light weathering, coal and crew. I am aware, as you pointed out Tony, that I have fitted the incorrect bogie/pony wheels on this model. I have decided that I can live with it this time, however next time I build a C12, I will definitely endeavor to fit the correct wheels. And I certainly will be building another C12, they are very fine looking locomotives.

 

 

 

 

 

The other thing that has been occupying my time is that of making trees for my N Gauge layout. I have been trying to elevate the standard of my work, and one way I thought to do this was by making my own wire trees. At the moment I have made from left to right 2 elms and one ash. They are all made from photos of the original, and I have enjoyed the creative freedom of making things from nature. Two very different aspects of the hobby, but both definitely modelling.

 

 

Hope you like the pictures.

 

EDIT: upon posting the pictures, I have noticed how prominent the fixing screw is. I'll have to shorten it

Edited September 8, 2016 by grob1234

[Mallard60022]

Apologies for being twee. That C12 is a very pretty engine. Am I right in thinking there was one at Newark (Sub from Retford) that worked the Southwell Dido?

Phil

[Barry Ten]

Apologies for being twee. That C12 is a very pretty engine. Am I right in thinking there was one at Newark (Sub from Retford) that worked the Southwell Dido?

Phil

 

I agree, it's a beauty isn't it.

[grob1234]

Apologies for being twee. That C12 is a very pretty engine. Am I right in thinking there was one at Newark (Sub from Retford) that worked the Southwell Dido?

Phil

 

I don't know about that Phil, but you're right about the C12.

 

Now, I'm not a designer, but I wonder if any of these 'classic' steam engines comply with any of the modern riles of design, with regards to proportions etc? They just look right to me, yet I know they were designed to be functional. Fascinating to think they were designed with slide rules. No computers, no calculators, just clever people making things that work.

[Tony Wright]

Interesting comment Tony , I have to differ as I enjoy both Locos Coaches and Wagons in both versions/types. If they are available r.t.r then I simply take advantage of the time and in most cases the money saved by their use .

 Hornby have produced some superb recent examples as well as in Locos , Type K Pullmans, Horseboxes, CCT and latest Hopper Wagons are superb. That is just ER area stock I am sure others could comment on other recent releases just as good..

 

In fairness to Hornby, yes the bogie wheels are so so in looks !. but we need to remember r.t.r is designed for tight curves , try and get Gibson version around most of them it simply would never happen. I have never used Markits so cant comment on their sharp curve roadholding !!

You're quite right, Mick, in praising Hornby for some of its recent rolling stock releases; a pity about the Blue-Spot fish van, though. 

 

You're also right in RTR bogie wheels needing to negotiate tight curves (and, the Hornby apple green ones are beautifully-lined). However, if one doesn't have train set curves, then (other than the difficulty in matching the apple green ones) they're much better replaced. Actually, I've gone a stage further one might say, and changed the lot - selling (almost) all the RTR locos. As I say, a personal decision.  

[Tony Wright]

What????

 

You've gone down in my estimation young Mr W

 

Mike

My apologies for plummeting in your estimation, Mike. 

 

My comment was careless in the extreme; I should have qualified it to some extent. What I meant to suggest was (actually a compliment to RTR) that in terms of performance RTR rolling stock is usually very good. Gone seem to be the wobbly wheels and dodgy b-t-bs, and the rolling-resistance is very slight. Hauling RTR rolling stock, RTR locos usually have little trouble in taking scale-length loads. It's when those same locos are confronted with heavy, metal vehicles (even fitted with pin-point bearings) that they seem to struggle. They slip and waddle along in a rather jolly manner.

 

That's why I'm happy enough to use (weathered and altered) RTR rolling stock but less happy with RTR locos. But, I made a mess of explaining it! 

[Tony Wright]

Dear Tony,

 

I was wondering if I might share with you (and others) my latest efforts.

 

Sadly due to work commitments, numerous flying exams, tests and so on, my time at the bench has been somewhat limited. However, yesterday and today I have been able to spend some time on the hobby, I believe both examples constitute modelling, though they are from very different spheres of the hobby, perhaps showing some of the huge diversity we can emerge ourselves in.

 

First up my SE Finecast C12, 4527. This project obviously involved soldering and is my first go at a white metal kit. It went together OK, though I did have to do a bit too much fettling for my liking. Mostly due to my own mistakes. Its another Grantham based loco, and is currently fresh out of the shop, awaiting light weathering, coal and crew. I am aware, as you pointed out Tony, that I have fitted the incorrect bogie/pony wheels on this model. I have decided that I can live with it this time, however next time I build a C12, I will definitely endeavor to fit the correct wheels. And I certainly will be building another C12, they are very fine looking locomotives.

 

 

 

 

 

The other thing that has been occupying my time is that of making trees for my N Gauge layout. I have been trying to elevate the standard of my work, and one way I thought to do this was by making my own wire trees. At the moment I have made from left to right 2 elms and one ash. They are all made from photos of the original, and I have enjoyed the creative freedom of making things from nature. Two very different aspects of the hobby, but both definitely modelling.

 

 

Hope you like the pictures.

 

EDIT: upon posting the pictures, I have noticed how prominent the fixing screw is. I'll have to shorten it

Just a comment or two, Tom. 

 

Firstly, my compliments on a splendid build.

 

Secondly, shorten the fixing screw in Photoshop - it's a lot easier.

 

Thirdly, being passenger engines, the C12s would normally have screw shackles rather than three-links. 

 

Keep up the good work!

[Barry Ten]

Here are a couple of my recent evening projects.

 

 

This is a Dean Goods using a Dapol body on a set of Comet chassis for both loco and tender. The motor is based on a Comet GB4 gearbox, but driven by a slightly larger Mashima motor than the one they specify. I found that it was still possible to fit it without any modification to the body, and the motor has ample power for a reasonable length of goods train. It's not been plain-sailing to get here though; I'll spare anyone the saga (those who've read my blog over the years will have an idea of it) but the Dean has been on and off the workbench many times, generally with problems of gear meshing and excessive wear, to the point where I basically chucked it in a box last year and decided to forget about it for a while. It's always good to come back with a fresh mindset, though, and a couple of evenings work this week has - touch wood - resolved all the earlier difficulties and resulted in a very satisfying resolution to the story, with the loco now running smoothly, slowly and powerfully. I'll re-attach the outside brake rods next, and then it'll probably go back into GWR green. Oh yes, and that horrible coal load will be getting the chop.

 

 

Hardly the most exciting picture but (cheered up by the Dean) I thought I'd crack on with another loco, in strict order of acquisition (nearly) with this Cambrian 2-4-0T, based on the Gem kit with an etched chassis, sold as a package by Mainly Trains. From the instructions, it appears that the chassis is a Gibson design, but whatever the origin, it certainly seems very well designed and easy to put together. A good job as there were no assembly diagrams, so I had to work out the folding and placement of the frame spacers by myself - but I think I've got them right. We'll see!

 

Alastair (Barry Ten)

[drmditch]

With regard to the previous discussions, I just like making things which have some relationship to the 12" to 1' originals.

I don't think that on this august thread, I would dare to call myself a modeller, although I do call myself an idiot on many occasions.

(Usually when I've just cut something too small, or assembled something the wrong way round, or...or... or...)

 

 

This J21 was completed a few years ago now, but it does have moving inside Stephenson gear! - well the upper parts of it anyway. I'm working on another one with Joy gear but it has got delayed by my house move and need to reconstruct my railway!

 

 

The J21 is re-worked Nu-Cast, but this ex-GCR three-plank dropside is scratch-built, with lifting link brake!

(I did consider making that work, but sanity prevailed!)

 

Sorry about the clunky couplings, but that's what works on my railway.

Edited September 8, 2016 by drmditch

[Tony Wright]

With regard to the previous discussions, I just like making things which have some relationship to the 12" to 1' originals.

I don't think that on this august thread, I would dare to call myself a modeller, although I do call myself an idiot on many occasions.

(Usually when I've just cut something too small, or assembled something the wrong way round, or...or... or...)

 

Post_12.JPG

 

This J21 was completed a few years ago now, but it does have moving inside Stephenson gear! - well the upper parts of it anyway. I'm working on another one with Joy gear but it has got delayed by my house move and need to reconstruct my railway!

 

Post_03.JPG

 

The J21 is re-worked Nu-Cast, but this ex-GCR three-plank dropside is scratch-built, with lifting link brake!

(I did consider making that work, but sanity prevailed!)

 

Sorry about the clunky couplings, but that's what works on my railway.

There is absolutely no daring in calling yourself a modeller. That is absolutely what you are and my compliments on your work. 

 

Let's hope your posting what you've done will encourage others to do the same. That's what's best about this thread - seeing the personal work of others - real modellers. 

 

And, real modellers will be showing Grantham at the Woking Show this coming weekend. I'll be there, mainly operating the shed and, later on, being a 'knob' with my camera taking pictures (see posts post Nottingham). 

 

Anyone interested in a lively discussion about the merits of this or that, please come along and have a chat. 

Edited September 8, 2016 by Tony Wright

[Headstock]

Thanks Andrew, I agree prototype photos are the best source of such info, but they're few and far between for coaches in the 1950s. Phil has got his torpedo vents right as there is a prototype photo of 1401/2/3 in the Steve Banks Model Rail article from 2006 (but I think he should have recessed doors at the extreme ends as this is a 1924 set - sorry Phil/ Gilbert!). I'm going to base mine on 1416/7/8 in the 1950s which was one of the Louis XIV sets for the 1928 Scotsman. There are plenty of photos of this set when it was new, and it clearly doesn't have the torpedo vents, just the two rectangular (Mike Trice / Shapeways) types. I just have to hope that the torpedo vents weren't a later addition, but this seems unlikely (I hope!).

 

Andy

 

Hi Andy,

 

I dug out my diagram book this evening. According to the book, the 1924 triplets had recessed doors at the outer ends, with the extream width given as 9' 0". The width of the1928 version, on the other hand, is given as 9' 3". Although this type is wider overall, it lacks the  recessed doors of the earlier set.  The 1938 triplets had pressure ventilation, so the two opens had a different arrangement of ventilators compared to the earlier types. I'm not certain if P.V. applied to the 1928 batch, that would be a possible explanation for the lack of torpedoes vents, but nothing is specified. One thing that I didn't realise is that the gangways connecting to the kitchen car are offset.

[jwealleans]

Offset vestibule connectors are, I believe, standard on all Gresley articulated stock. They form a straight line with the corridors and allow larger (usually toilet) compartments.

[MikeTrice]

Also worth pointing out that they were not the normal Pullman type either:

[Headstock]

Offset vestibule connectors are, I believe, standard on all Gresley articulated stock. They form a straight line with the corridors and allow larger (usually toilet) compartments.

 

Good evening Jonathan,

 

do you just mean corridor stock? Surely not the streamliners and the tourist stock?

[Headstock]

Also worth pointing out that they were not the normal Pullman type either:

Image635.jpg

 

Yes, I noticed that on the diagram.

[jrg1]

Apologies for being twee. That C12 is a very pretty engine. Am I right in thinking there was one at Newark (Sub from Retford) that worked the Southwell Dido?

Phil

I cannot find any reference to a C12 working the Southwell Dido; this was usually a duty for two Johnson 1P tanks, 58065 and 58085, although a Lincoln A5 sometimes was seen.

[jwealleans]

Andrew,

 

I don't have my library to hand, but I believe I mean all vestibuled articulated stock. What I didn't specify was, at the articulated ends. They had normal vestibule connectors where they could couple to other stock.

[EHertsGER]

I can't help you much with the F4 specifically but I would say that one of the most useful things for understanding what all of the bits of a steam loco are and what they do is the BR Handbook for Steam locomotive enginemen.  It's been reprinted many times over the years but you can find a digital copy online here.

Thank you - and doubly so - for the opportunity to sit down with a glass of something and learn...not just connect some random 'dots'. I could well become 'informed'...

 

Best,

Marcus

[Headstock]

Andrew,

 

I don't have my library to hand, but I believe I mean all vestibuled articulated stock. What I didn't specify was, at the articulated ends. They had normal vestibule connectors where they could couple to other stock.

 

Morning Jonathan,

 

the tourist stock definitely didn't have offset gangways between the articulated units. They were on the centre line like the gangways at the outer ends of the units. This would fit with what you are saying because there wasn't an adjoining vestibule or corridor at the articulated ends .

[jwealleans]

Morning Andrew,

 

That would make sense, allowing walking in a straight line. I have never built a Tourist twin and the only open artic cariages I have done had a side corridor at one side of the articulation.

 

Roy Mears will be at Woking tonight with his streamlined sets, so I'll ask him about how they were arranged. The Coronation was open throughout as I remember, so presumably they'd be on the centreline other than perhaps when passing kitchen areas.

 

Always something new to learn....