Wright writes.....

[Dazzler Fan]

 

  - nor search-engine Google! give applicable meanings!

 

 

try searching on Google with "Gedge Couplings"

 

Many of us know them also as "Instanter Couplings"

Edited September 12, 2016 by Dazzler Fan

[Barry O]

Barry,

 

 

Except, you've got the early BR lion facing the wrong way! It always faced forward. Please, if anyone has evidence to the contrary, post it. 

I know .. Its on my list to change (its correct on the other side)  along with the replacement frames, lamp irons and also a change of buffers at the front end.. once I check my picture of said loco..

[Clearwater]

In the spirit of 'show and tell' picture below of my debut solo loco build. It's a Comet Dean Goods chassis to fit under an old mainline body I have. I have been fortunate enough to have had a lesson with Tony (referenced many pages ago) and am trying to put it into practice. Not perfect, I'm sure, but it's a start.

 

To my inordinate delight, the chassis will now move under its own power up and down my small test track. Many lessons learnt to date. Notably, I think I've put the spacers too low so the pickup pads are slightly below the chassis frames. I'm trusting (hoping?!?) the brake rods will disguise the wires sticking out below the frames. Having got the chassis to roll, I was reluctant to unsolder it to move them higher. Secondly, fitting pick-ups is somewhat harder than the quick flick of the pliers Tony demonstrates in his video. After several attempts, I'm now getting power to the motor and the rods turn and move the chassis though I need to have another go at making sure each wheel has electrical contact.

 

I think the rods would benefit from some further cleaning up and still plenty left to do. Not being the fastest modeller, lots of other distractions notably small children and work, it may be a while before I have more photographable progress...

 

David

 

PS - I'm looking forward to seeing Grantham at Warley later this year - looks superb!

 

Edit: thanks to Barry 10 for pointing out I'd neglected to include what it's going to be. Fortunately it looks enough like what it's supposed to be for hi to identify it!

Edited September 12, 2016 by Clearwater

[Barry Ten]

In the spirit of 'show and tell' picture below of my debut solo loco build. I have been fortunate enough to have had a lesson with Tony (referenced many pages ago) and am trying to put it into practice. Not perfect, I'm sure, but it's a start.

 

 

 

That looks like the Dean Goods chassis to me? Coming along nicely whatever it is.

[St Enodoc]

try searching on Google with "Gedge Couplings"

 

Many of us know them also as "Instanter Couplings"

At the risk of setting myself up to be shot down, I would say that whereas all Instanter couplings may well have gedges, not all couplings with gedges are Instanters.

[richard i]

In the spirit of 'show and tell' picture below of my debut solo loco build. It's a Comet Dean Goods chassis to fit under an old mainline body I have. I have been fortunate enough to have had a lesson with Tony (referenced many pages ago) and am trying to put it into practice. Not perfect, I'm sure, but it's a start.

To my inordinate delight, the chassis will now move under its own power up and down my small test track. Many lessons learnt to date. Notably, I think I've put the spacers too low so the pickup pads are slightly below the chassis frames. I'm trusting (hoping?!?) the brake rods will disguise the wires sticking out below the frames. Having got the chassis to roll, I was reluctant to unsolder it to move them higher. Secondly, fitting pick-ups is somewhat harder than the quick flick of the pliers Tony demonstrates in his video. After several attempts, I'm now getting power to the motor and the rods turn and move the chassis though I need to have another go at making sure each wheel has electrical contact.

I think the rods would benefit from some further cleaning up and still plenty left to do. Not being the fastest modeller, lots of other distractions notably small children and work, it may be a while before I have more photographable progress...image.jpeg

David

PS - I'm looking forward to seeing Grantham at Warley later this year - looks superb!

Edit: thanks to Barry 10 for pointing out I'd neglected to include what it's going to be. Fortunately it looks enough like what it's supposed to be for hi to identify it!

Great to see a build. Take care when fitting the rods for real, I think the test fit has it on upside down.

There is nothing worse (except ebola) than having to take the rods off after soldering on the washers. (Made that mistake)

Richard

[jrg1]

I know .. Its on my list to change (its correct on the other side)  along with the replacement frames, lamp irons and also a change of buffers at the front end.. once I check my picture of said loco..

 

[grob1234]

Dear Tony,

 

First of all thank you for your comments on my C12 build. I've already removed the chain link couplings and will replace with screw link couplings when I next make a "Romfords" order. Thank you also for all the other contributors "likes" and so on, it's always very satisfying to know others enjoy the work you're doing. That fixing screw that protrudes the underside may well be disguised with some black marker. As always, photos highlight the smallest errors!

 

With regards to gearboxes, I have only experience of high level boxes. The first one I made was ok, the second one pretty good and the most recent one I made for my W1 is basically silent. The high level boxes can be built in a hurry, but if you really take your time, then great results can be achieved from very reasonably priced products.

 

My 'top tips' would be as follows.

 

1. Do read the instructions carefully.

2. Make the opening holes for the 2mm steel rods a really tight fit. The less slop you engineer into the box, the better it will run.

3. Open up all the holes whilst the etch is on the fret for added stability. Use a tapered broach, not a file!

4. If using larger mashimas eg 18xx series, make sure you check that the opening on the gearbox accepts the collar of the motor. I found that the opening needed significant enlargement to accommodate the motor snugly.

5. When folding up the box, check and double check that each bend is at 90 deg. This stage is really important. Any angle off, and you'll be adding unnecessary twist to the gearbox.

6. Once happy that the gears are all in place, I apply a tiny dab of super glue on the end of each 2mm rod for added stability.

7. If the box is a tiny bit out, a little tweak between thumb and forefinger can help re align.

 

Simply, take your time, and the gearbox will be great, especially after you've made one or two. Plus, Chris at High Level is really helpful, so there's always support if required.

 

 

May I also say how good Grantham is looking. Well done to all.

[Focalplane]

One additional point about gearboxes - those with helical gears are much more efficient and therefore can run a heavier locomotive with lower power consumption. This is particularly relevant to DCC because high current consumption decoders cost more than the additional cost of a ready made and tested helical gearbox. Swings and roundabouts, perhaps, but also worth having an expert build the gearbox.

 

I should add that Jim McGeown's fold up box for 7mm works well, but it is even more important in the larger scale to get 90° corners and then run a filet of solder to strengthen them.

 

I have one DJH motor gearbox in a stored 4mm kit and liked what I saw when I tested it. Do I remember correctly, is it also well designed for adjustment? I think I remember Tony W saying somethng to that effect.

[Tony Wright]

One additional point about gearboxes - those with helical gears are much more efficient and therefore can run a heavier locomotive with lower power consumption. This is particularly relevant to DCC because high current consumption decoders cost more than the additional cost of a ready made and tested helical gearbox. Swings and roundabouts, perhaps, but also worth having an expert build the gearbox.

 

I should add that Jim McGeown's fold up box for 7mm works well, but it is even more important in the larger scale to get 90° corners and then run a filet of solder to strengthen them.

 

I have one DJH motor gearbox in a stored 4mm kit and liked what I saw when I tested it. Do I remember correctly, is it also well designed for adjustment? I think I remember Tony W saying somethng to that effect.

Paul,

 

With regard to the DJH 'boxes, they come made-up and have no need for adjustment (because they run sweetly at source). They can be supplied in kit-form but are (amazingly) more expensive in that way. When I enquired as to why, I was told that some folk had made a mess of assembling them and complained! In kit-form, one can adjust the fixing holes for the motor to give the sweetest mesh, merely by opening them out just a twitch, but I've rarely found this necessary. I used to order mine as a kit (because it was cheaper then), but now just get them ready made. 

 

On the subject of fold-together gearboxes in general, I do like the Markits idea of having the motor-fixing holes OUTSIDE the 'box. Granted, this only works in large-boilered/fireboxed locos, because the motor (if it's a flat-can) lies on its side. Because the worm need not be removed for motor adjustment, it's more convenient. And (engineers weep!), the nickel silver mounts are flexible (just) enough to 'bend' the motor ever so slightly up or down for perfect sweetness.

 

 

 

 

These two shots show how the Markits' 'box is configured and installed into a P2. Now complete (apart from the motion), this will do a scale 90 mph on 14 bogies!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[jwealleans]

Lovely pictures, wrong flippin' Atlantic again!

It varies from weekend to weekend, but at Woking the Klondike seemed to spend most of the time working the Peterborough goods then returning on the York ECS. That means you'd need to be watching the latter half of the sequence to see it.

[jjb1970]

On gear boxes and motors, I find that on message boards there is often a lot of attention given to motors and comparatively little given to gears and transmission arrangements. Particularly for RTR there are some nice marketing hooks to hang off motors (5 pole, skew wound and such like) which companies are active in promoting. I find that the gear and transmission arrangement is more critical to good, smooth running than the motor. A decent but basic three pole motor can provide beautifully smooth and quiet performance if paired with a good transmission arrangement. So I always think that this is the area that probably merits more discussion than motors but unfortunately it doesn't seem to have quite the same marketing hooks that you find for motors.

[Izzy]

On gear boxes and motors, I find that on message boards there is often a lot of attention given to motors and comparatively little given to gears and transmission arrangements. Particularly for RTR there are some nice marketing hooks to hang off motors (5 pole, skew wound and such like) which companies are active in promoting. I find that the gear and transmission arrangement is more critical to good, smooth running than the motor. A decent but basic three pole motor can provide beautifully smooth and quiet performance if paired with a good transmission arrangement. So I always think that this is the area that probably merits more discussion than motors but unfortunately it doesn't seem to have quite the same marketing hooks that you find for motors.

 

Couldn't agree more. I have always thought that the motors and gearing used need considering as a whole package/unit, but having said that there is no doubt there is a lot of misunderstanding in my view with regard to gears and gearing ( 'efficiency' etc), and is as much the proverbial can of worms as other aspects, probably more.

 

However, with the recent demise of Mashima I do wonder at present where it could all be heading, given that they have become almost the 'de-facto' motors used these days in kit/scratchbuilt locos thanks to the performance and wide range of motor sizes produced. No doubt time will tell.

 

Izzy

[micklner]

Couldn't agree more. I have always thought that the motors and gearing used need considering as a whole package/unit, but having said that there is no doubt there is a lot of misunderstanding in my view with regard to gears and gearing ( 'efficiency' etc), and is as much the proverbial can of worms as other aspects, probably more.

 

However, with the recent demise of Mashima I do wonder at present where it could all be heading, given that they have become almost the 'de-facto' motors used these days in kit/scratchbuilt locos thanks to the performance and wide range of motor sizes produced. No doubt time will tell.

 

Izzy

 

e bay is your friend for various motors.

[Mallard60022]

Couldn't agree more. I have always thought that the motors and gearing used need considering as a whole package/unit, but having said that there is no doubt there is a lot of misunderstanding in my view with regard to gears and gearing ( 'efficiency' etc), and is as much the proverbial can of worms as other aspects, probably more.

 

However, with the recent demise of Mashima I do wonder at present where it could all be heading, given that they have become almost the 'de-facto' motors used these days in kit/scratchbuilt locos thanks to the performance and wide range of motor sizes produced. No doubt time will tell.

 

Izzy

Just before Geoff Brewin (ex Comet Models) passed away (3 years today sadly) he had sourced a new motor supply. Better than Mashima and easily as good as Portescap but very quiet and fine with DCC (sorry Tony). Perhaps Andrew (now Comet's owner) has the info on that motor; worth asking.

Phil

[Tony Wright]

Just before Geoff Brewin (ex Comet Models) passed away (3 years today sadly) he had sourced a new motor supply. Better than Mashima and easily as good as Portescap but very quiet and fine with DCC (sorry Tony). Perhaps Andrew (now Comet's owner) has the info on that motor; worth asking.

Phil

Phil,

 

From memory, I think it was called a Maxon motor. 

 

I had Geoff's King here which I 'fixed' before it was sold-on. It had the new motor/gearbox combination but it wasn't quite right. It might have been that dear Geoff was ailing, but it was almost there. Less than half an hour of tweaking on my part and it was absolutely sweet. I stuck it on LB, loaded it to the maximum and away it flew - a beautiful runner! The new owner was (is still) delighted.

 

I think Andrew still has the parts (I hope he lets us know) but the 'stumbling block' was (is?) the price as far as I know - around about £100.00, and the gearbox still has to be made. That puts it into Portescap territory, and twice the price of a made-up DJH equivalent motor/gearbox. Though performance is excellent (providing the 'box is assembled correctly), in my experience, it's no better than a big Mashima and DJH 'box.

 

The same motor/gearbox combination was in Geoff's 71000, and that really ran well - brilliantly in fact. That said, it was in no way superior to the two locos you saw yesterday which came from Geoff's estate - the A1 and V2, both of which have fat Mashimas and a Comet 'box, at less than half the price.

 

As an aside, friends who came today took some of the items you brought yesterday; the last of Geoff's stuff. They're making donations to Cancer Research.

 

Many thanks my old mate.  

Edited September 13, 2016 by Tony Wright

[asmay2002]

Maxon are certainly still around but, being Swiss, are  expensive. http://www.maxonmotor.co.uk/maxon/view/content/maxon-Products

Edited September 14, 2016 by asmay2002

[Mallard60022]

There must be alternatives to Mashima if they are down the pan. I had not realised the Maxon things were so expensive.

I've also used a couple of DJH RTR box/motors; absolutely lovely running from them.

Phil 

[Jol Wilkinson]

Maxon motors are probably aimed t the scientific/medical equipment market, where reliability is important. Mashima were aimed at the model market, where price is a primary consideration.  The Wizard site still lists the Comet coreless motor/helical gearbox at £105, the comparable Slaters unit uses a Mashima motor and is priced at £82.60. Those prices give an indication of the cost of the gearbox components.

 

The DJH site shows Mashima motors so they are presumably having to find another supplier (likewise Slaters)

 

In simple engineering terms, worm gears with low ratios tend to be more efficient, as are helical gears and bevel gears. That requires multiple stage gearboxes as provided by HL, Slaters, DJH and others. The downside is larger overall size and cost.

 

Well made 38:1 or even 50:1 single stage gears can give very good results (Ultrascale or Markits for example). I have always used these, with LRM motor mounts which is how most "gearboxes" should be titled (proper gearboxes have bearings supporting both ends of the input shaft and can be mounted remotely to the motor). Single stages drives are more compact and can be used with advantage in smaller outline engines.

[cctransuk]

There must be alternatives to Mashima if they are down the pan. I had not realised the Maxon things were so expensive.

I've also used a couple of DJH RTR box/motors; absolutely lovely running from them.

Phil 

 

See http://www.cctrans.org.uk/products.htm .

 

Regards,

John Isherwood,

Cambridge Custom Transfers.

[billbedford]

So not a replacement for the Mashima 10 series, then?

[Tony Wright]

Two examples of Comet gearboxes/motor-mounts I've assembled recently.........

 

 

This dinky little arrangement will power a 16XX I'm putting together. It's one of the first releases from SE Finecast after they acquired the old Nu-Cast range, and now comes complete with a superb etched nickel silver chassis. 

 

 

Something much more meaty went into this Millholme H16 being built for a friend. Note the chassis; designed to take an X04-type motor with huge cut-out. This will be filled later.

 

On both drive examples I haven't fitted the front plate; something I never do. I find without it I can just tweak the 'boxes enough to give me the absolute sweet spot. 

 

 

 

The bodywork is almost complete on this ancient big tank. Considering its age the castings weren't bad and no surface-filing has been necessary. I have, however, replaced many of the cast blob parts with Markits items. 

 

 

The V2 in this picture once appeared over 30 years ago in the RM. Back then it had an X04-style five-pole motor. Too noisy, so it now has a Comet 'box and Mashima motor. Any surviving locos from all those years ago, when the X04-style motor from Airfix, Romford or MW was the norm', have, with just a few exceptions, had those motors replaced with modern alternatives. I now have quite a stock - useful as replacements for dud old Tri-ang motive power when I conduct my loco clinics at shows.

 

Looking at this picture, small details like the ground dolls, a notice, relay box and so on really do start to bring the scenes to life (at least in my view). Interestingly, the V2 is 40 years old, the Pullmans over 20 and the A1 hauling them coming up to 20 years old. Still good enough?  

Edited September 14, 2016 by Tony Wright

[Mallard60022]

Tony your ground dolls are very clever little fittings, as are the intricate control systems to operate them. 

Phil

[Tony Wright]

Tony your ground dolls are very clever little fittings, as are the intricate control systems to operate them. 

Phil

Phil,

 

The ground dolls and their working mechanisms are all Roy Vinter's work. Together with another friend we're in the process of installing all the mechanisms (over 200 years of experience among us!). Unfortunately, two need repair. I had visitors one day and invited one of them to just operate one of the ground dolls. He yanked at it as if he were operating the real thing, breaking the cotton which forms the final part of the operating mech'. Another was wiped out by a 'nasty', visiting, derailing DMU, and needs repair. 

 

In order to prevent further damage to the operating mechs', I'll cut the steel rod which forms the primary motion and insert a chocolate-block type electrical joiner in each one so that it butts up against the inside of the baseboard, preventing too much movement.

 

The working ground signals add a real vitality to the operation of the layout.

 

You mentioned featuring my cassette system just built. Though only one train will use them, it might be of interest to others so I'll take some pictures. I can accommodate over 40 trains already (I heartily dislike moving stock around by hand) and the cassettes allow me to have one more. They're just made from aluminium angle and wood, as you saw.   

Edited September 14, 2016 by Tony Wright

[ROY@34F]

Phil,

 

The ground dolls and their working mechanisms are all Roy Vinter's work. Together with another friend we're in the process of installing all the mechanisms (over 200 years of experience among us!). Unfortunately, two need repair. I had visitors one day and invited one of them to just operate one of the ground dolls. He yanked at it as if he were operating the real thing, breaking the cotton which forms the final part of the operating mech'. Another was wiped out by a 'nasty', visiting, derailing DMU, and needs repair. 

 

In order to prevent further damage to the operating mechs', I'll cut the steel rod which forms the primary motion and insert a chocolate-block type electrical joiner in each one so that it butts up against the inside of the baseboard, preventing too much movement.

 

The working ground signals add a real vitality to the operation of the layout.

 

You mentioned featuring my cassette system just built. Though only one train will use them, it might be of interest to others so I'll take some pictures. I can accommodate over 40 trains already (I heartily dislike moving stock around by hand) and the cassettes allow me to have one more. They're just made from aluminium angle and wood, as you saw.   

 

Hi Tony, 

I hope to soon be able to come over and finish off the dollies operating stuff. My leg pain turned out to be a nerve trapped by a disc in the spine, and I am now 90% better. At present I am catching up a bit with jobs I couldn't deal with before.

I'll give you a ring, and bring a few spares with me to sort out damage !

Nice that our friendly duck appreciated the little signals.

 

Regards, Roy.