Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

The Comet Maxon/gearbox is however much more powerful than any Mashima combination.

Thanks Mike,

 

I'll bite the bullet and buy the Maxon combination from Andrew and give it a test. I'm building an A4 for a layout with a steep gradient and it'll need to take at least 12 cars up it - unaided!

[Mallard60022]

Thanks to some excellent photographs the A5 is getting closer to completion. (it awaits a smokebox numberplate).

 

But photos say it all a revisit to the loco number on one side..

 

A5 side on (1280x582).jpg

 

but the weathering looks OK 

 

A5 3 quarters front (1280x571).jpg

 

and the snifting valve and frame extensions seem to be OK

 

A5 3 quarters back (1280x579).jpg

 

and some of us still build coaches!

 

stanier Bk 3rd (1280x348).jpg

 

Stanier Bk 3rd built by BR as a "Porthole" coach.

Baz

So you might be wanting my collection of unbuilt coach kits then Baz

Phil

[Mallard60022]

Thanks Phil,

 

I spoke with Andrew on Thursday and he told me that since taking over the Comet range he has sold just two of the new motor/gearbox combinations. At over £100.00 (and it has to be assembled by the customer) the Maxon motor/gearbox combination is perceived as just too expensive. 

 

I'm not entirely convinced that it will always outstrip a white metal kit-built loco with a standard motor/gearbox. My DJH A1s with Mashima motors/DJH or Comet 'boxes will happily take 20 kit-built cars on the level. I don't have any gradients, but if the Maxon/combo could do more then most would have no need of it. 

 

The price-point is always a stumbling block with any product. I'm told Portescaps now go for 'silly' money, yet later ones howl and whine in a manner entirely unacceptable to me. Yes, Geoff's beautiful gearbox is much quieter than those but no quieter than a well-made Comet/High Level/DJH/Mashima combination, and it's over twice the price. 

Geoff's original intention with the Maxon was to 'replace' the Portescap that was no longer available off the shelf and did not like DCC. I believe the Maxon was/is DCC friendly and so he considered that if a person wanted Portescap performance (I'm told this was/is something that finescale builders liked to use) then this combo might be just the thing. However, it did seem a tad expensive but what do I know about finescale?

Phil

Phil 

[Barry O]

So you might be wanting my collection of unbuilt coach kits then Baz

Phil

Phil,

 

Ta for the offer but...

 

I have a box of sides , ends, roof materials just waiting to be built.  They await some decent seating units..

 

Baz

[Tony Wright]

Geoff's original intention with the Maxon was to 'replace' the Portescap that was no longer available off the shelf and did not like DCC. I believe the Maxon was/is DCC friendly and so he considered that if a person wanted Portescap performance (I'm told this was/is something that finescale builders liked to use) then this combo might be just the thing. However, it did seem a tad expensive but what do I know about finescale?

Phil

Phil 

Finescale, Phil? 

 

Judging by the models I've seen which you've built, you know a lot. 

[queensquare]

Geoff's original intention with the Maxon was to 'replace' the Portescap that was no longer available off the shelf and did not like DCC. I believe the Maxon was/is DCC friendly and so he considered that if a person wanted Portescap performance (I'm told this was/is something that finescale builders liked to use) then this combo might be just the thing. However, it did seem a tad expensive but what do I know about finescale?

Phil

Phil

 

Portescap, Faulhaber, Maxon and indeed any other coreless motor are perfectly DCC friendly. Pretty much all my locos have various flavours of coreless motor and run beautifully with a chip fitted. I also have many friends in 4 and 7mm who use DCC and have both RG4 and RG7s in use.

That said, like Tony, I do find some of the Faulhauber motors to be 'whistlers'.

Jerry

[Stanley Melrose]

I think the original patents on iron-less armature, coreless motors may well have expired a few years ago.  I heard of one enterprising person who bought several thousand of one type at 50 US cents each from a Chinese supplier so I reckon their adoption by Bachmann and possibly other manufacturers may well be due to their significantly lower price than Faulhaber, Escap and Maxon charge for theirs.  I recall hearing that Faulhaber have shifted some of their manufacture to Eastern Europe but I doubt if that would allow them to match Chinese prices.

 

I don't think it will be too long before these motors are the norm.

 

Stan

[Manxman1831]

 

How do knowledgeable thieves who steal (obviously unique) items of model railway equipment dispose of them? Is there a market? (Though who would admit to it?). The item I had nicked was a Bachmann Jubilee; one of thousands. The items at EXPO seem to be hand-built and easily identified as such.

 

If caught, I hope the perpetrator is named, shamed and his image made known to all who organise shows. Or, will that contravene his human rights?  

I know I have cut most of what Mr Wright has posted, but I want to concentrate on the last two points he makes.

 

Is there a market?  Unfortunately, YES, there is.  Individuals, or groups, will always be envious of other peoples possessions, and will try to acquire them by any means, either legally or illegally.  It is a matter of trust, that we as exhibitors display our wares and not have it lifted by light fingers.  Having been at a model trams show where two unique models went for a walk, while the exhibitor was attending to another layout opposite, I will NEVER leave my own stock unattended.  I have also been offered ludicrous sums of money for my own items - a chap at my first ever show as an exhibitor offered £5 for a pair of trams I'd got on display, as he probably thought I was just a kid and would have taken the money regardless.  I was there with my brother, and needed to take a break - was informed upon returning that the chap had come back and was disappointed that the layout was being watched by my brother.

 

Should the perpetrator be named and shamed if caught?  YES, but only passed on to the shows organisers and venue staff to look out for the individual in question, as they would hopefully take a measured response to the person turning up, rather than the potential lynch mob that could ensue if everyone was made aware of them.

[Focalplane]

Having lived in Texas I am all for baseball bats at the ready.  I am given to understand that these weapons of war are also occasionally used in sport.  How very strange.

[salmonpastures]

I know I have cut most of what Mr Wright has posted, but I want to concentrate on the last two points he makes.

 

Is there a market?  Unfortunately, YES, there is.  Individuals, or groups, will always be envious of other peoples possessions, and will try to acquire them by any means, either legally or illegally.  It is a matter of trust, that we as exhibitors display our wares and not have it lifted by light fingers.  Having been at a model trams show where two unique models went for a walk, while the exhibitor was attending to another layout opposite, I will NEVER leave my own stock unattended.  I have also been offered ludicrous sums of money for my own items - a chap at my first ever show as an exhibitor offered £5 for a pair of trams I'd got on display, as he probably thought I was just a kid and would have taken the money regardless.  I was there with my brother, and needed to take a break - was informed upon returning that the chap had come back and was disappointed that the layout was being watched by my brother.

 

Should the perpetrator be named and shamed if caught?  YES, but only passed on to the shows organisers and venue staff to look out for the individual in question, as they would hopefully take a measured response to the person turning up, rather than the potential lynch mob that could ensue if everyone was made aware of them.

The mind boggles,,, and as a regular exhibitor at exhibitions it is also rather worrying.

I will seriously have to look at these recently available cheap and cheerful cycling camera's in an attempt to offer a deterent.

But to take something from a past modellers estate leaves me completely COLD.

 

 SAD

[Michael Edge]

Thanks Mike,

 

I'll bite the bullet and buy the Maxon combination from Andrew and give it a test. I'm building an A4 for a layout with a steep gradient and it'll need to take at least 12 cars up it - unaided!

46208 on Carlisle has this motor, so you will have seen what it can do.

[Mallard60022]

Portescap, Faulhaber, Maxon and indeed any other coreless motor are perfectly DCC friendly. Pretty much all my locos have various flavours of coreless motor and run beautifully with a chip fitted. I also have many friends in 4 and 7mm who use DCC and have both RG4 and RG7s in use.

That said, like Tony, I do find some of the Faulhauber motors to be 'whistlers'.

Jerry

I had not realised that. I suspect Geoff saw that Portescap seemed to be no longer in production but was selling for silly money on auction sites and after talking with many modellers at the 'showcase' exhibitions and privately, he decided that having a look at an alternative with a gearbox was worth some time and effort.

Phil 

[jrg1]

The mind boggles,,, and as a regular exhibitor at exhibitions it is also rather worrying.

I will seriously have to look at these recently available cheap and cheerful cycling camera's in an attempt to offer a deterent.

But to take something from a past modellers estate leaves me completely COLD.

 

 SAD

Over here, we had a character join the BRMA, and subsequently advertised rare brass models for sale-the idea being to collect deposits or upfront payments, and take a walk.  Happily, it all sounded not quite right, and some enquiries by the BRMA saw this serial fraudster up before the beak

[queensquare]

I had not realised that. I suspect Geoff saw that Portescap seemed to be no longer in production but was selling for silly money on auction sites and after talking with many modellers at the 'showcase' exhibitions and privately, he decided that having a look at an alternative with a gearbox was worth some time and effort.

Phil

 

I should have qualified that in 2mm we don't have any gearboxes as such available. We tend to use a gear train built into the frames - generally cantilevered off just one to maintain split axle pickup which all 2FS locos use in one form or another. My preference for Coreless motors in 2mm is simply because 8 and 10mm diameter types are readily available and when combined with a CT or Zimo chip give superb results.

When building locos for customers in 3 or 4mm scale I usually use one of the high level type gearboxes with a Mashima or equivalent with excellent results.

 

Jerry

[Grovenor]

Geoff's original intention with the Maxon was to 'replace' the Portescap that was no longer available off the shelf and did not like DCC. I believe the Maxon was/is DCC friendly and so he considered that if a person wanted Portescap performance

Just prior to this development Geoff was investigating the Portescap noise problem and borrowed an early, quiet, example from me for the tests. I don't think the issue had anything to do with DCC. Foulhaber or Maxon makes no difference in that respect.

But it should be noted that there were problems with coreless motors in the early years of DCC (And modellers often remember that and don't realise its history!).

Early DCC decoders used relatively low frequency PWM which would easily overheat the coreless motors, and also made normal motors noisy. The introduction of high frequency PWM, originally marketed as 'silent drive' cured both these problems.

regards

[Barry O]

46208 on Carlisle has this motor, so you will have seen what it can do.

Mike

 

this one?

 

 

Baz

[gr.king]

On the matter of theft of handbuilt models from shows:

 

1. Does this mean that those specialist societies that pride themselves on running shows without barriers to let society members get a proper look at one another's work should now think again?

2. Do the rotten apples come from within the ranks of the specialist societies, or have the full time scum from the gutter latched on to the fact that these shows have no security to speak of?

 

Punishments from the time before the "enlightened" Victorian legal reforms seem highly appropriate, whatever the case.

[Mallard60022]

I really look forward to finding out who this person is (or these persons are). 

Sadly I think folk at exhibitions will now need to take simple and sensible precautions to protect their displays, but how the big 'shifters' that have huge stalls full of boxes at the non specialist shows will achieve this I do not know. As for layouts, I'd allocate a frontsperson that can chat to people briefly but keep looking along the front and side of the layout. Any suspicion when someone wants to chat if you are out front and it is quite easy to excuse yourself for a moment and do a 'patrol'. If the chatterer is genuine they won't mind. OK you have to put up with some people that won't go away but that is also easily dealt with by making an excuse. If the layout is short staffed then barriers of some form are essential. 

Phil

Edited September 20, 2016 by Mallard60022

[The Stationmaster]

I really look forward to finding out who this person is (or these persons are). 

Sadly I think folk at exhibitions will now need to take simple and sensible precautions to protect their displays, but how the big 'shifters' that have huge stalls full of boxes at the non specialist shows will achieve this I do not know. As for layouts, I'd allocate a frontsperson that can chat to people briefly but keep looking along the front and side of the layout. Any suspicion when someone wants to chat if you are out front and it is quite easy to excuse yourself for a moment and do a 'patrol'. If the chatterer is genuine they won't mind. OK you have to put up with some people that won't go away but that is also easily dealt with by making an excuse. If the layout is short staffed then barriers of some form are essential. 

Phil

 

I understand that it is not unknown for the 'big shifters' and other trade stands to suffer pilferage stealing from their displays at shows.

[Mallard60022]

I understand that it is not unknown for the 'big shifters' and other trade stands to suffer pilferage stealing from their displays at shows.

I helped out the Engine Shed (Gaugemaster) at a few shows back in the 90s and was really surprised when my colleagues told me to keep a good eye out for lifters (no sniggering at the back). Stupidly I assumed that anyone coming to a MR Show was sound as my son would say. Not so I discovered. However, the security needed to be adjusted according to the venue. As in 'real life' seemingly.

Phil 

[5050]

We've had people helping themselves at Wakefield Show a couple of times at least.  The last time a guy filled a bag with items from Langley (and probably others) but he was spotted and 'held to account'.

 

I wouldn't call them 'lifters', I'd call them 'nickers'.

 

And stop sniggering again!!

[great central]

We had a rather amusing (in hindsight) episode at our show a year or two back.

Apparently an elderly man (won't add the gentle bit for reason to become obvious) was spotted stealing from one of our traders. Realising he'd been rumbled he made a swiftish move towards the exit, followed, I understand, by the trader.

Having nearly made it outside a couple of our younger stewards were alerted to the goings on whereupon he took off like Mo Farah!! The stewards gave chase, one of them being well over 6ft tall with build to match, and caught up with him after a short while. Having caught him they brought him back and, as luck would have it, we had a couple of PCSOs on the premises. We always let the Police know about our event and they drop in regularly over the weekend knowing there's always a cuppa and cake available for them.

Anyway, they call up the regular police to deal with our elderly man.

Now as I got the story second hand, I was (as usual) in the office, I'm not certain about the next sequence of events but it seemed strange that an elderley man could run the way our thief did. It turned out he was wearing a full head mask and underneath was someone, I believe, in their mid-late 20s!!! Known to the Police already I think.

So don't let appearances fool you would seem to be the lesson, all these elderly people may be young modellers wanting to get in at the concession rate  

[Izzy]

Thanks Mike,

 

I'll bite the bullet and buy the Maxon combination from Andrew and give it a test. I'm building an A4 for a layout with a steep gradient and it'll need to take at least 12 cars up it - unaided!

 

Historically coreless motors have been seen to have the advantages of being more efficient (drawing less current) and quieter (due to a lack of 'cogging'), but size for size not as powerful as iron-rotor types (continuing development - more powerful magnets etc - mean this is changing). In modelling circles this led to the RG series having modeller friendly spur drive gearboxes because without them the motors could not produce the power levels to shift a loco through normal high ratio worm drives at low revs (which by comparison consume greater levels of produced motor power) without overheating. The RG gearboxes can tend to be noisy because straight cut spur gears are such when revolving at higher rpm's due to the on/off nature of the load transference between teeth.

 

Helical cut spur gears are far less noisy because of an even load transfer and I would hazard a guess that it's the helical gearbox that is the main ingredient in the performance levels rather than the Maxon, and that while say a Mashima hung on it might possibly be a bit noiser, it might also be a just as powerful combination, perhaps more so.

 

Of course if the Mashima range are now no longer available, then plently of modellers are going to be looking for usable alternatives so perhaps we will see more coreless and spur drive gearbox combinations arrive. Or maybe newer design/more powerful coreless motors with higher ratio double reduction worm/spur gearboxes will prove a suitable alternative.

 

Izzy

[Focalplane]

The strange thing about Mashima is that the owner is shutting up shop, possibly without seeking a buyer. At least this is what i get from reafing through this and other discussions. Mashima motors are good value and they work, so why isn't/wouldn't someone out there be talking to the owner?

 

Don't look at me, I just stopped working after 46 years.

[jjnewitt]

The strange thing about Mashima is that the owner is shutting up shop, possibly without seeking a buyer. At least this is what i get from reafing through this and other discussions. Mashima motors are good value and they work, so why isn't/wouldn't someone out there be talking to the owner?

 

As I understand it Mr Mashima can no longer get the magnets for his motors so there is little life left in the business to sell on to someone else.

 

Justin