Wright writes.....

[Mallard60022]

OK, this is where I will admit to a major faux pas on my first trainspotting journey.  Somewhere between Oswestry, Gobowen, Snow Hill and the Lakes Halt I wrote down a number on the side of a train that began 5-----.  I later found that this locomotive was a real rarity until my mentor explained that there must have been a W in front of the number.  

 

This set back made me dislike DMUs, but I have to admit that whichever class they were, the opportunity to sit behind the driver and see the North Warwickshire Line ahead was a great experience.  And it made trainspotting of steam locomotives approaching on the other track easier too! Agreed.

P

[coachmann]

The humble dmu, loathed by us when first introduced,earning the nickname bog carts by my mates. These same friends now travel the length of the country ( aided by over sixties discounted fares) to spot some latest unit...

In terms of modelling the late fifties sixties and seventies....

Bet they're Cliff Richard fans too......

 

Unexpectedly saw one today arriving at Carrog 'Not in Service'.

[Tony Wright]

Many thanks to all those comments about first-generation DMUs. Who would have thought a thread like this would have contained images of such things? 

 

I suppose whether one likes them or loathes them, or is entirely ambivalent about them depends (or does in my case) on how old one is. By that I mean, having a clear memory of watching trains or riding in trains before their introduction. I've probably already mentioned this but, as a boy, in the mid-'50s, my bedroom looked out over the teacher training college fields at Chester. Beyond these ran the ex-GC line to Wrexham and the Wirral from Chester Northgate. When the family first moved in to Cheyney Road, passenger trains passing by (though too far away to see the numbers) were in the charge of ex-GC 4-4-2Ts and 0-6-2Ts, plus some BR Standards and Mickey Mouse tanks. Soon after our moving, DMUs appeared. Later on, one even had a board on its side proclaiming it to be the so-and-so number built by BR (Derby?). I must admit, I paid them no heed at all. The steam locos had proper numbers and were proper locos to a trainspotter. The same was so in the other direction from Northgate, on the CLC to Manchester. Here, in the main, trains were hauled by tender locos in the form of D11s (namers, too!) and Ivatt 2-6-0s among others (though I must have seen a D10, I have no recollection of the event). Again, once these had been replaced by DMUs, no trainspotting interest whatsoever. 

 

That is, until I rode in one or two, especially behind the driver (if it weren't the First Class end or the blinds drawn). Now you could get the passing steam locos' front numbers (apart from on one wretched summer Saturday between Chester and Shrewsbury when all the specials passed carried those large WR three-character train reporting numbers, hiding the numbers).

 

My jaunts to Manchester and Liverpool were always behind DMUs, and 'spotting from the train was thus much easier. The same was so between Kiveton Park and Retford, though the first of my journeys on that route were made behind D11s - those I'd previously seen at Chester! 

 

So, as a trainspotter I loathed them, but riding in them was great for getting numbers. Oddly enough, I used a DMU daily from 1970 to 1974, travelling from Chester to Birkenhead where I first taught. Foolishly, I carried no camera; not to take shots of the DMUs but because places like Hooton were still signalled by magnificent LNWR lower-quadrant semaphores. Later on, though, I did take shots of DMUs, but more for their surroundings around the country. I have never built (nor ever will) a model DMU. 

 

 

This is much more the sort of stuff I like to build, even though I never saw it (though I did see the tender equivalents). It's been seen before, and I built it from a Brassmasters kit. Geoff Haynes painted it.

 

 

And, stuff like this, built from a Mercian kit for use on Rob Kinsey's EM Merthyr Riverside.

 

 

 

And this, a Brecon & Merthyr 0-6-0ST, built from a Redcraft kit (never, never again!!!!). 

 

 

 

All to run on Merthyr Riverside, for which I also painted the backscene. Why mention all this? Because it'll be seen at the Wolverhampton Show (at Wednesfield) over the Bonfire Night weekend. I'll be there, and I thought I'd just give it a plug. 

 

And, not an A3 boiler of any kind! 

Edited September 17, 2016 by Tony Wright

[46256]

I shall be meeting my friends next week one of our regular get togethers...Anoraks and Zimmer frames left outside the pub for convenience of the other patrons. We all love railways...I am though the only one who is a modeller....at least two are keen photographers . They travel all over the world in that pursuit. Most of them as stated still collect numbers, not my cup of tea as modern traction ....whilst impressive as witnessed last year at Lancaster station when two class 66 thundered through...well I feel a bit left out as they are unaware of our hobby. The term rail enthusiast clearly encompasses many diverse interests....probably not cliff...but then again given some of their faction sense...

[Clearwater]

On DMUs, I remember them being withdrawn in the mid-late 1980s. We reckoned DMU for an acronym for Dirty Messy and Unuseable. Suffice to say they were pretty much life expired and not mourned by us when replaced by sprinters. However, I did miss the cab view you got if the driver didn't put down the blinds. My abiding memory of them is crawling slowly up Old Hill Bank on heavily overcrowded trains in snowy weather listening to the engine struggling with the load.

 

I only ever briefly collected DMU numbers

[Clearwater]

On DMUs, I remember them being withdrawn in the mid-late 1980s. We reckoned DMU for an acronym for Dirty Messy and Unuseable. Suffice to say they were pretty much life expired and not mourned by us when replaced by sprinters. However, I did miss the cab view you got if the driver didn't put down the blinds. My abiding memory of them is crawling slowly up Old Hill Bank on heavily overcrowded trains in snowy weather listening to the engine struggling with the load.

 

I only ever briefly collected dmu/emu numbers though oddly I was happy to collect HST numbers. However they were included in the Platform 5 loco book whereas DMUs were excluded

 

David

[New Haven Neil]

I hated DMUs in the day - riding to Newcastle ( the Geordie one) in a 101 Met-cam to go trainspotting at the Central and visit the model shop every weekend.  I now miss them, and have models of them.  Odd, humans, aren't we!

 

The photo of the B&M tank on Merthyr is scrumptious, but the brass cosmetic fishplates are screaming at me.  As a very average modeller who uses Peco track I love to see detail like that which I doubt I would ever bother to achieve, but please paint them!  Again, we humans are odd characters!

[Focalplane]

While I never had any interest in DMUs, diesel hydraulics, diesel electrics and the other modern types back in the 1950s and 1960s, I do find myself being fascinated by their overseas equivalents.  When I lived in Houston (for 23 years) I only saw diesel electrics unless Union Pacific sent their heritage steamers to town.  I was quite hopeless at spotting the various makes and classes.  Now, in France, I have to admit a passing interest in all things European, possibly because of the diversity along the Midi Main Line.  I have even captured a photo of a Class 66 passing through Montpellier.  TGVs fascinate me and the latest duplex trainsets are fabulous to ride in at up to 320 kph, their official top speed, recorded several times using a GPS device propped up against the window.  If I may, here is a link to a real roller coaster, compressed with a 300mm telephoto lens, to the west of Avignon:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/87392-sud-de-france-2007-present-day-photos/?p=1539061

[coachmann]

When I starting commuting to work from Oldham to Manchester one could still find the occasional pre-group non-corridor coach behind one of the usual Stanier or Fairburn 2-6-4T's.  One early morning a DMU slipped into Oldham Central 'Not in Service'. A couple of weeks later these things entered service on day trains so a friend said it might be fun to go home on one after work. That was when I realised railways were not flat! The Units sounded pretty much life-expired when new grinding out of Man vic, I mean after only having known the relative quiet of a loco-hauled carriage, there was noise coming from everywhere and talking was a case of yet-wot, pardon and say it again. But it got us back in Oldham in just over 20 minutes.

 

Most days I deliberately waited for a rush hour steam working and these still took around 30 minutes....... Or far longer once behind a 'Crab' 2-6-0 on one occasion and several hours on another occasion in smog and detonators when diverted via the notorious Werneth Incline. I had to walk home thu' the smog from the station and got home ahead of my time for an Oldhamer......My face was black.

[96701]

Phil,

 

From memory, I think it was called a Maxon motor. 

 

I had Geoff's King here which I 'fixed' before it was sold-on. It had the new motor/gearbox combination but it wasn't quite right. It might have been that dear Geoff was ailing, but it was almost there. Less than half an hour of tweaking on my part and it was absolutely sweet. I stuck it on LB, loaded it to the maximum and away it flew - a beautiful runner! The new owner was (is still) delighted.

 

I think Andrew still has the parts (I hope he lets us know) but the 'stumbling block' was (is?) the price as far as I know - around about £100.00, and the gearbox still has to be made. That puts it into Portescap territory, and twice the price of a made-up DJH equivalent motor/gearbox. Though performance is excellent (providing the 'box is assembled correctly), in my experience, it's no better than a big Mashima and DJH 'box.

 

The same motor/gearbox combination was in Geoff's 71000, and that really ran well - brilliantly in fact. That said, it was in no way superior to the two locos you saw yesterday which came from Geoff's estate - the A1 and V2, both of which have fat Mashimas and a Comet 'box, at less than half the price.

 

As an aside, friends who came today took some of the items you brought yesterday; the last of Geoff's stuff. They're making donations to Cancer Research.

 

Many thanks my old mate.  

Tony, Phil, 

 

I knew that Geoff was working on coreless motor / helical gearbox combinations. He used to tell me of his progress when we having beers at the Prince of Wales. He'd tell me about his trials and tribulations trying to calculate shaft centres to get the meshing right, only to find that the etching process would produce something slightly different from his design. Eventually, he stopped telling me about it and I thought that he'd given up because of problems with binding gears or de-meshed gears.

 

One day, I went to his loft, and he told me to stand away because he had something to show me. A few clicks of the control panel, and out came 71000. It ran through the station, around the 180 degree curve at the bottom end and started up the 1 in 100 gradient with 8 bogies on, and came to a stop at the signal towards the top of the gradient. When Geoff flicked a switch that allowed 71000 to set off, it did so without any slipping, the first steam outline model of Geoff's that I had seen do that.  The smile on Geoff's face told me that he'd cracked the design of the gearbox by moving the centre of one shaft by one micron.

 

Remember that the coreless motor is smaller, so allows more space for weight. Geoff wanted to watch trains run reliably no matter where they were stopped by his automatically controlled railway. The only locos that could reliably start 8 bogies on his layout were Bachmann or Heljan diesel locos, and he wanted a steam loco to behave similarly. Only 71000 would do that, so whilst it appears no better on level layouts, I can assure you both that it outstrips any whitemetal kit with standard motor / gearbox installed, and on top of that, 71000 is a resin bodied model.

Edited September 17, 2016 by 96701

[Brian Kirby]

Tony, your South Wales backscene is Turner-esque. 

   Btw, you mentioned wanting to change your Bachmann Cravens destination blinds, don't forget the late great Saint Francis of Palmers Green and Caerphilly, had WORKING roller blinds in his Cravens and Derby Lightweight DMUs - FIFTY YEARS AGO! His Cravens also had revolving headcodes, both ends of course.    

                                                                                Cheers, Brian.

[MJI]

 

I only ever briefly collected DMU numbers

 

I actually cleared the 118s

 

The out of use trailer from P480 at Laira was one of the last

[Mallard60022]

Bl##dy bogcarts. They appeared in Plymouth in 1958/59; all shiny and new and clean and mostly sat in sidings as far as I could see. Fortunately they didn't make much of an impression then and by the time steam had almost disappeared in the area in 1964, I had almost lost interest in 'spotting' as I couldn't afford to travel the distances required to see quantities of steam and, for some unfathomable reason, females became more interesting. Regrets? I have a few ...........

However, it was an 'interest' in one particular female, that was at College in Weymouth in 1967, that resulted in me becoming reacquainted with steam (locomotive that is). Bulleid Pacifics were in their last months of service in the June/July of that year and I had not actually realised that. She turned out to be a Llandore driver's daughter and so we spent some time visiting Weymouth Shed . Sadly her term ended mid July as did mine and we went our separate ways. Enough of that nonsense, however I still dislike bogcarts other than the Bubblecar, but understand why they became the saviour of many rural railways for a few too short years before the dreaded cuts came.

Apologies to younger fellows on here, however dislike of the bogcart species is probably an age thing and, of course, is very personal.

Phil

[The Stationmaster]

In praise of DMUs - that view from the front; I even copped my last 'Castle' from a DMU.

 

As for Manchester - Chester & back I've only ever done it behind steam, a 'Britannia' believe it or not, views of which (and other things at Chester) will be found in Post No.16 in this thread -

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/67059-the-stationmaster-goes-train-spotting-part-2/

[AndyID]

I think I was about eight when my parents took a trip from Glasgow to Edinburgh on the new space-age DMUs. I remember asking them what it was like and was a bit disappointed to hear that they didn't notice much difference.

[Barry O]

Love them or hate them the Derby Lightweights improved services in the Leeds/Bradford area.

 

But my regular travels from West Hartlepool to Darlington in Met Cam and Craven units gave good views of some of the track. Around Dinsdale it was like being on a roller coaster!

 

Baz

[Barry O]

Thanks to some excellent photographs the A5 is getting closer to completion. (it awaits a smokebox numberplate).

 

But photos say it all a revisit to the loco number on one side..

 

 

but the weathering looks OK 

 

 

and the snifting valve and frame extensions seem to be OK

 

 

and some of us still build coaches!

 

 

Stanier Bk 3rd built by BR as a "Porthole" coach.

Baz

Edited September 18, 2016 by Barry O

[Tony Wright]

Thanks to some excellent photographs the A5 is getting closer to completion. (it awaits a smokebox numberplate).

 

But photos say it all a revisit to the loco number on one side..

 

A5 side on (1280x582).jpg

 

but the weathering looks OK 

 

A5 3 quarters front (1280x571).jpg

 

and the snifting valve and frame extensions seem to be OK

 

A5 3 quarters back (1280x579).jpg

 

and some of us still build coaches!

 

stanier Bk 3rd (1280x348).jpg

 

Stanier Bk 3rd built by BR as a "Porthole" coach.

Baz

Looking good Barry,

 

However, you've now got the wrong-facing lion on this side. Also, might it be worth changing the bogie/pony wheels; and the wheel/handle on the smokebox door with twin handles? 

[Tony Wright]

Tony, Phil, 

 

I knew that Geoff was working on coreless motor / helical gearbox combinations. He used to tell me of his progress when we having beers at the Prince of Wales. He'd tell me about his trials and tribulations trying to calculate shaft centres to get the meshing right, only to find that the etching process would produce something slightly different from his design. Eventually, he stopped telling me about it and I thought that he'd given up because of problems with binding gears or de-meshed gears.

 

One day, I went to his loft, and he told me to stand away because he had something to show me. A few clicks of the control panel, and out came 71000. It ran through the station, around the 180 degree curve at the bottom end and started up the 1 in 100 gradient with 8 bogies on, and came to a stop at the signal towards the top of the gradient. When Geoff flicked a switch that allowed 71000 to set off, it did so without any slipping, the first steam outline model of Geoff's that I had seen do that.  The smile on Geoff's face told me that he'd cracked the design of the gearbox by moving the centre of one shaft by one micron.

 

Remember that the coreless motor is smaller, so allows more space for weight. Geoff wanted to watch trains run reliably no matter where they were stopped by his automatically controlled railway. The only locos that could reliably start 8 bogies on his layout were Bachmann or Heljan diesel locos, and he wanted a steam loco to behave similarly. Only 71000 would do that, so whilst it appears no better on level layouts, I can assure you both that it outstrips any whitemetal kit with standard motor / gearbox installed, and on top of that, 71000 is a resin bodied model.

Thanks Phil,

 

I spoke with Andrew on Thursday and he told me that since taking over the Comet range he has sold just two of the new motor/gearbox combinations. At over £100.00 (and it has to be assembled by the customer) the Maxon motor/gearbox combination is perceived as just too expensive. 

 

I'm not entirely convinced that it will always outstrip a white metal kit-built loco with a standard motor/gearbox. My DJH A1s with Mashima motors/DJH or Comet 'boxes will happily take 20 kit-built cars on the level. I don't have any gradients, but if the Maxon/combo could do more then most would have no need of it. 

 

The price-point is always a stumbling block with any product. I'm told Portescaps now go for 'silly' money, yet later ones howl and whine in a manner entirely unacceptable to me. Yes, Geoff's beautiful gearbox is much quieter than those but no quieter than a well-made Comet/High Level/DJH/Mashima combination, and it's over twice the price. 

[Tony Wright]

 

Though this is not a DMU, it is an MU (an EMU, obviously). 

 

It's Bachmann's latest Class 416 and I've just photographed it for BRM. Since I know nothing about the type (nor, in fairness, want to know), I cannot comment on how accurate it is. All I would say is that I've never photographed a kit-built unit in 4mm (or probably any scale) which is as good as this, especially with regard to the finish. 

 

I think it's safe to say that, at least with reference to 'modern image', the RTR items are far superior to anything made from kits or scratch. Though they might be superior, they're nowhere near as personal - they're really (very nice) possessions, not personal creations. Over to you, Clive. 

 

I still prefer kit/scratch-built steam outline models, however. 

[Focalplane]

7mm scale motor/helical gearboxes sell for between £95 and £125.  Jim McGeown's Mashima 1833 plus 40:1 single stage non-helical gearbox kit costs £45.00 but is now only sold with a kit, no doubt due to the cessation of Mashima production.  I have examples of both and IF the gearbox kit is built carefully with true right angles to the fold up gear casing which are then strengthened with fillets of solder, then the less expensive combination can be surprisingly good.  All types seem to pack good pulling power and all will run under DCC without resorting to expensive high amperage decoders.

 

I have just completed the chassis for Modern Outline Kits Collett 14XX 0-4-2T.  This is my first foray into a kit that is designed to have compensation.  With an abcgears Maxon helical gear combination installed and plunger pickups on the four driving wheels it is performing very nicely with no hesitation at crawling speeds (my locos must be able to crawl!)

 

I did wonder about whether or not compensation is worthwhile.  I suppose if the kit designer made the model to have compensation then those instructions ought to be followed (I do follow instructions religiously.)  Once the body is completed I will be in a better position to judge just how beneficial the extra effort is.  In the meantime I subscribe to the Tony Wright doctrine that making it is better than buying an RTR model.  I am having great fun!

[Worsdell forever]

As lots of people look in here I thought I'd post a link here, there's been some models stolen at EM North yesterday (Sunday) please keep an eye out for them.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/115035-thief-at-em-north/&do=findComment&comment=2437429

[Brian Kirby]

Attention ECML Pullman fans: Did any of the recent magazine reviews, spot that amongst Hornby's lovely new 1928 Pullman cars in post-war livery, they've managed to put the wrong number (Car No.83) on their Parlour 3rd (R4694)? Of course the real Car No.83 was a 1931 car, very similar overall, but with different windows! It's not the end of the world, worse things have happened at sea, but someone is not keeping their eye on the ball. Smashing models, although to me, the finish is rather drab. The four 1928 Parlour 3rds were Car Nos. 73/74/75/76 respectively. So it's out with the number transfer sheet, and then a thin coat of gloss varnish methinks? Don't have nightmares.

                                         Cheers, Brian.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Brian Kirby

[Michael Edge]

Thanks Phil,

 

I spoke with Andrew on Thursday and he told me that since taking over the Comet range he has sold just two of the new motor/gearbox combinations. At over £100.00 (and it has to be assembled by the customer) the Maxon motor/gearbox combination is perceived as just too expensive. 

 

I'm not entirely convinced that it will always outstrip a white metal kit-built loco with a standard motor/gearbox. My DJH A1s with Mashima motors/DJH or Comet 'boxes will happily take 20 kit-built cars on the level. I don't have any gradients, but if the Maxon/combo could do more then most would have no need of it. 

 

The price-point is always a stumbling block with any product. I'm told Portescaps now go for 'silly' money, yet later ones howl and whine in a manner entirely unacceptable to me. Yes, Geoff's beautiful gearbox is much quieter than those but no quieter than a well-made Comet/High Level/DJH/Mashima combination, and it's over twice the price. 

The Comet Maxon/gearbox is however much more powerful than any Mashima combination.

[Tony Wright]

As lots of people look in here I thought I'd post a link here, there's been some models stolen at EM North yesterday (Sunday) please keep an eye out for them.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/115035-thief-at-em-north/&do=findComment&comment=2437429

Thanks for posting that information.

 

Having had a model stolen at a recent swapmeet (the property of a widow), I can say from personal experience that it's most unpleasant. 

 

I cannot conceive how anyone could be tempted to steal anything (unless one were starving). Is it a product of nature or nurture? I've never stolen anything (or is scrumping apples as a kid stealing? Technically yes?). I suppose my parents impressed the value of honesty into my brother and me; we were both spanked soundly for telling a lie - not for the original crime (breaking a window) but for lying in an attempt to avoid the consequences. I think it's more down to nature, having taught some kids from underprivileged background whose integrity was beyond reproach and some from well-off homes who'd nick anything without conscience. That's not to say that the poorer aren't honest, it's just that some 'rich' kids had absolutely no need to be thieves (nobody should have, anyway). The little bast*rds (though, technically, probably not) just did it.

 

It must be heartbreaking to have model railway equipment you've made yourself stolen. I might have mentioned this before, but at one show in South Wales when we were exhibiting Stoke Summit, the venue was broken into overnight. Fearing, and dreading, the worst, on inspection, nothing had been touched. No, the rarest items from a complete Hornby-Dublo collection were gone!

 

A friend in Wolverhampton had his layout shed broken into and his exquisite scratch-built Lynton & Barnstaple stock stolen. The thief (cramming it into binsacks!) had no idea what he'd stolen, and tried to sell it at a local model shop. Fortunately, the proprietor, seeing it was something rare, asked the guy to leave it because his 'boss' was out and he'd return and put a value on it. The police were then informed and nabbed this guy when he returned. Unfortunately, because there was no evidence to the fact that he stole the items, he could only be charged with the lesser crime of receiving stolen goods. He received a fine and a caution. He had a long record of this sort of thing. Though I don't like admitting this, I couldn't have been as sanguine as my friend in hoping things would be all right; he got most of his stuff back but some of it was beyond repair. No; many of my mates would have (potentially) banded together and (perhaps a year or two later) meted out summary justice! I learned later that the thief had taken a hammering from somebody else. I do stress 'perhaps' but personal feelings of 'revenge' can take over. 

 

How do knowledgeable thieves who steal (obviously unique) items of model railway equipment dispose of them? Is there a market? (Though who would admit to it?). The item I had nicked was a Bachmann Jubilee; one of thousands. The items at EXPO seem to be hand-built and easily identified as such.

 

If caught, I hope the perpetrator is named, shamed and his image made known to all who organise shows. Or, will that contravene his human rights?  

Edited September 19, 2016 by Tony Wright