Wright writes.....

[Jon4470]

My way of justifying the cost of kits goes something like this.....

 

I enjoy building kits (locos mainly) and it takes me many hours to complete a kit. Therefore the cost per hour compares very reasonably with other pastimes (evening in the pub, football, theatre, cinema etc). I am also learning new skills ( including language when things don’t work as they should!)

 

As many have said it is a personal choice influenced by a number of circumstances but the above logic helps me !

 

Jon

[Tony Wright]

 

Just a thought. What chance a D3 ever being available RTR? 

 

I've just started making this London Road Models kit. What a little beauty. The fit of parts is excellent and it's as easy-to-make an etched-brass kit as I've ever encountered. 

 

It'll run on the M&GNR bit of my layout.

[gr.king]

David,

 

It sounds like the wheels' flanges are touching the inner 'cheeks' of the firebox. 

 

Wait until it's dark, then put full power to the loco (holding it). See where the sparks are, and you've identified the short. 

 

Hope this helps.

On a 12V DC analogue supply, obviously.

 

That's just one of the things you can't do very well if you've gone over totally to DCC, disposed of all means of delivering plain 12V DC, and / or built the loco with a DCC-only chip permanently installed from square one. It's not advisable to use the 240V AC mains as your "full power" either, even if you enjoy a good thrill!

[Steamport Southport]

On the cost of kit building v RTR.

 

Kits have generally stayed at a similar level for quite a time but RTR prices are rocketing. A large RTR locomotive is edging up to £200 RRP whereas a small tank locomotive such as the recent Hattons Barclay tank is £99. That's getting towards the prices of top end kits with all the extras.

 

Not a complaint about price. But it may soon become cost effective to build kits rather than buying RTR.

 

 

Jason

[Clearwater]

On a 12V DC analogue supply, obviously.That's just one of the things you can't do very well if you've gone over totally to DCC, disposed of all means of delivering plain 12V DC, and / or built the loco with a DCC-only chip permanently installed from square one. It's not advisable to use the 240V AC mains as your "full power" either, even if you enjoy a good thrill!

Indeed. I’m taking the approach of getting it to work on 12v dc before contemplating DCC. Rather like working out which end of the iron to hold, I’m relatively conservative about playing with high current/voltage!

 

Thanks Tony - I’ll try in the dark tomorrow to see where the short is. I’m assuming it must be where the wire from the pads to the motor fouls something as I’m using the chassis to return current to the track. I presume then the trick is either to jiggle/file back so enough space or introduce insulation at that spit.

 

David

[sp1]

On the cost of kit building v RTR.

 

Kits have generally stayed at a similar level for quite a time but RTR prices are rocketing. A large RTR locomotive is edging up to £200 RRP whereas a small tank locomotive such as the recent Hattons Barclay tank is £99. That's getting towards the prices of top end kits with all the extras.

 

Not a complaint about price. But it may soon become cost effective to build kits rather than buying RTR.

 

 

Jason

I suspect that the problem for a lot of us would not be the building but the painting, unless you only model unlined black locos.......

[grahame]

I appreciate this is a little off the current discussion about kits vs RTR (which IMO seems to be erring over the costs in monetary terms and ignoring the other benefits of longevity of operation, satisfaction and pride) but here is a follow up to my post (#24509) a few pages back in which I'd made a section of viaduct walling/arches (in N/2mm scale).

 

Since then I have made a RTV silicone mould and below are the first two resin casts pulled from it. They have been quickly cleaned up and given a coat of grey primer. There is a little further work to do in filling some small holes (and then the painting of course) but overall I'm happy how things have turned out. Further details can be found on my buildings thread (see in the signature section of this post):

 

 

G.

Edited May 3, 2018 by grahame

[Bucoops]

I appreciate this is a little off the current discussion about kits vs RTR (which IMO seems to be erring over the costs in monetary terms and ignoring the other benefits of longevity of operation, satisfaction and pride) but here is a follow up to my post (#24509) a few pages back in which I'd made a section of viaduct walling/arches (in N/2mm scale).

 

Since then I have made a RTV silicone mould and below are the first two resin casts pulled from it. They have been quickly cleaned up and given a coat of grey primer. There is a little further work to do in filling some small holes (and then the painting of course) but overall I'm happy how things have turned out. Further details can be found on my buildings thread (see in the signature section of this post):

 

DSC_5575.JPG

 

G.

 

I think if there's one thing that will NEVER be off topic on this thread - it's making something yourself.

[jamie92208]

Perhaps readers of this thread can help me.   A couple of weeks ago Tony appealed for help in making what he calls a 'decent' model of the M & G N bridge at the north end of LB.   I'm obviously loosing it as I volunteered to try and do some artwork for a decent etched kit of the bridge for Tony to build.   We took some measurements and I took a couple of photos.  Tony has supplied me with copies of some scans of the original drawings.   However the original scans were not of a very high resolution and a lot of the smaller printing, such as dimensions and instructions to the builders are unreadable.   I can get a lot of it my measurement and with study the way the structure goes together is gradually becoming clearer.   

 

I took a couple of photos of the existing structure for reference and can make a start on the artwork.   However does anyone have copies of photos of the actual bridge that they could post.  Of particular interest would be a close up of a train coming under the bridge that showed the lower girders in detail.   Another helpful part would be a photo taken of the interior of the bridge from track level showing the details of the girders.  

 

Any help would be appreciated as I would like to try and ensure that the etches make up into a model worthy of going onto LB.

These show the bridge that I'm attempting to produce as it is at present.

 

Jamie

 

[micklner]

Indeed. I’m taking the approach of getting it to work on 12v dc before contemplating DCC. Rather like working out which end of the iron to hold, I’m relatively conservative about playing with high current/voltage!

 

Thanks Tony - I’ll try in the dark tomorrow to see where the short is. I’m assuming it must be where the wire from the pads to the motor fouls something as I’m using the chassis to return current to the track. I presume then the trick is either to jiggle/file back so enough space or introduce insulation at that spit.

 

David

 

Covering the pick ups with heat shrink tubing will help.

Edited May 3, 2018 by micklner

[Tony Wright]

I was quite taken with the photos Sam took yesterday of Little Bytham. They were elevated. 

 

Normally, I try and take 'eye' level' shots, as if standing in the place of a miniature photographer (difficult with a Behemoth of a camera). However, I've just tried a few more-elevated shots this afternoon, with the following results................

 

 

 

The two pictures above were taken from Marsh Bridge (propping the camera up), so are a realistic point of view.

 

 

 

These two were taken with the camera propped up on a stout cardboard box. The one of 60539 could have been taken from a signal ladder, I suppose. 

 

'Helicopter' shots tend to be derided these days (though I wouldn't call these 'helicopter' ones), but at least they give a much wider view of a layout. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[APOLLO]

Found this on the web, may be of use. Side on view of the M&GN bridge.

 

https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/MIDLAND-GREAT-NORTHERN-JOINT-RAILWAY/MGNJR-MISCELLANY/i-DPnPg3v

 

Brit15

[jamie92208]

Found this on the web, may be of use. Side on view of the M&GN bridge.

 

https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/MIDLAND-GREAT-NORTHERN-JOINT-RAILWAY/MGNJR-MISCELLANY/i-DPnPg3v

 

Brit15

 

Thanks for that.   I'll try and contact the guy who posted it to see if he has a better copy that I could use for reference.   

 

Jamie

[Steamport Southport]

I'm assuming that bridge is what the Airfix Girder Bridge was based on. 

 

http://www.airfixrailways.co.uk/GirderBridge.htm

 

 

 

Jason

[jamie92208]

I'm assuming that bridge is what the Airfix Girder Bridge was based on. 

 

http://www.airfixrailways.co.uk/GirderBridge.htm

 

 

 

Jason

 

Thanks Jason, that might well be the case as it is very similar but not quite correct.   It would be interesting if they did use it as the signal box was based on Melton Mowbray which isn't too far away.  Perhaps the designer lived in the area.

 

Jamie

[sir douglas]

elevated shot are prototypical as long its from the right position such as from a bridge or from the top of signals, im sure some early photographers were barmy enough shimmy up a tall distance post for a good shot

[Atso]

D3 01.jpg

 

Just a thought. What chance a D3 ever being available RTR? 

 

 

Much more likely in 4mm scale than 2mm...  Good thing I started the CAD work for one a few years back...

[Headstock]

Evening all,

 

I finished of the weathering on 63853 last night and got a shot this morning. I found I hd run out of lamps so had to order a new batch, I thought I would try some of the Modelu footplate figures at the same time. I'm quite pleased with how the footplat glazing and window frame came out,  five thou plasticard sunk into the back of the whitemetal. The rearangement of the cylinder and pony truck has made a big difference to the front end I feel and the experiment with archers rivets has worked a treat.

 

I'm close to completing a thirty wagon fitted freight that requires a fast mix traffic loco. No sign of the PDK B16/1 yet that is on order, but will I even be able to source wheels? In the meantime I have added up that I have enough parts from variouse sources for a new V2. I may crack on with that next.

[Tony Wright]

I appreciate this is a little off the current discussion about kits vs RTR (which IMO seems to be erring over the costs in monetary terms and ignoring the other benefits of longevity of operation, satisfaction and pride) but here is a follow up to my post (#24509) a few pages back in which I'd made a section of viaduct walling/arches (in N/2mm scale).

 

Since then I have made a RTV silicone mould and below are the first two resin casts pulled from it. They have been quickly cleaned up and given a coat of grey primer. There is a little further work to do in filling some small holes (and then the painting of course) but overall I'm happy how things have turned out. Further details can be found on my buildings thread (see in the signature section of this post):

 

DSC_5575.JPG

 

G.

Lovely work Grahame,

 

Thanks for posting......

 

I take your point about models being judges in monetary terms; not, perhaps how they should be judged. Including, in my book, personal satisfaction at having created something. What value can be put on that? As Jon has pointed out, building a kit can be incredible value per money, in terms of 'enjoyment' costs per hour (I do try to be aware of the enjoyment factor, when the motion on a loco solders-up solid for the umpteenth time!). 

 

That personal satisfaction, however humble the model, will always be greater in my opinion than the satisfaction a person might get from just 'owning' a model, whether it be RTR or the work of others. Those who modify/improve/weather their own RTR things can gain just as much personal satisfaction as the kit-builder (many do both), but it's the personal input which is the most valuable. 

 

And, as someone has posted, the prices of RTR items are continually going up. Perhaps, one hopes, it'll be a cost imperative that makes folk return to making kits. Who knows? It's certainly happening in the plastic wagon business. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[grahame]

I'm assuming that bridge is what the Airfix Girder Bridge was based on. 

 

 

The old Airfix girder bridge - the most used and favoured kit by the Anderson model makers for TV series like Thunderbirds.

 

G

[Denbridge]

Perhaps readers of this thread can help me.   A couple of weeks ago Tony appealed for help in making what he calls a 'decent' model of the M & G N bridge at the north end of LB.   I'm obviously loosing it as I volunteered to try and do some artwork for a decent etched kit of the bridge for Tony to build.   We took some measurements and I took a couple of photos.  Tony has supplied me with copies of some scans of the original drawings.   However the original scans were not of a very high resolution and a lot of the smaller printing, such as dimensions and instructions to the builders are unreadable.   I can get a lot of it my measurement and with study the way the structure goes together is gradually becoming clearer.   

 

I took a couple of photos of the existing structure for reference and can make a start on the artwork.   However does anyone have copies of photos of the actual bridge that they could post.  Of particular interest would be a close up of a train coming under the bridge that showed the lower girders in detail.   Another helpful part would be a photo taken of the interior of the bridge from track level showing the details of the girders.  

 

Any help would be appreciated as I would like to try and ensure that the etches make up into a model worthy of going onto LB.

These show the bridge that I'm attempting to produce as it is at present.

P5023284.JPG

P5023285.JPG

 

Jamie

Have you tried the Network Rail plan office in York regarding copies of the original bridge? Nowadays they tend to be a lot more helpful than in previous years. BUT never turn up in person. You are unlikely to get in and will be unwelcome.

[grahame]

 

And, as someone has posted, the prices of RTR items are continually going up. Perhaps, one hopes, it'll be a cost imperative that makes folk return to making kits. Who knows? It's certainly happening in the plastic wagon business

 

Yes, hopefully. And I've seen it reported, in more than just the plastic wagon sector, that kits are starting to make a comeback in other areas.

 

There are a few stumbling blocks that need addressing - for example in 'my' scale (N/2mm) there is an increase in body kits (for example the wonderful 3D printed work of Steve Atso as featured on this thread and the reintroduction of some white metal kits I've recently seen) that can make great looking models with some modelling effort, but the problem is sourcing suitable quality chassis'. I think it is necessary to make it easier for enthusiasts to get in to building kits and making models.

 

G

[Clive Mortimore]

Perhaps readers of this thread can help me.   A couple of weeks ago Tony appealed for help in making what he calls a 'decent' model of the M & G N bridge at the north end of LB.   I'm obviously loosing it as I volunteered to try and do some artwork for a decent etched kit of the bridge for Tony to build.   We took some measurements and I took a couple of photos.  Tony has supplied me with copies of some scans of the original drawings.   However the original scans were not of a very high resolution and a lot of the smaller printing, such as dimensions and instructions to the builders are unreadable.   I can get a lot of it my measurement and with study the way the structure goes together is gradually becoming clearer.   

 

I took a couple of photos of the existing structure for reference and can make a start on the artwork.   However does anyone have copies of photos of the actual bridge that they could post.  Of particular interest would be a close up of a train coming under the bridge that showed the lower girders in detail.   Another helpful part would be a photo taken of the interior of the bridge from track level showing the details of the girders.  

 

Any help would be appreciated as I would like to try and ensure that the etches make up into a model worthy of going onto LB.

These show the bridge that I'm attempting to produce as it is at present.

P5023284.JPG

P5023285.JPG

 

Jamie

Hi Jamie

 

On page 46 of Nigel Digby's book "A Guide to the Midland and Great Northern Joint Railway" there is a photo of bridge 43 of a similar view to the one Apollo gave the link to and the text states the bridge had a span of 97ft 6 ins. The bridge was the property of the Midland Railway so any search at the NRM might be more fruitful if done under the MR Bridge 43 on the Saxby Junction to Bourne line not the M&GNJR. 

[Northmoor]

Thanks Jason, that might well be the case as it is very similar but not quite correct.   It would be interesting if they did use it as the signal box was based on Melton Mowbray which isn't too far away.  Perhaps the designer lived in the area.

The signal box was a model of Oakham.... (not far away).

[Denbridge]

Hi Jamie

 

On page 46 of Nigel Digby's book "A Guide to the Midland and Great Northern Joint Railway" there is a photo of bridge 43 of a similar view to the one Apollo gave the link to and the text states the bridge had a span of 97ft 6 ins. The bridge was the property of the Midland Railway so any search at the NRM might be more fruitful if done under the MR Bridge 43 on the Saxby Junction to Bourne line not the M&GNJR.

 

unless things have changed dramatically in the last few years, the NRM holds relatively few civil engineering drawings. These have historically remained in the ownership of the railways. BR/Tiltrack and now Network Rail. Until around 2005 these were kept at regional plan stores. Since then they have been all located to a 'state of the art' centre just outside of York. In my professional life, ive had many dealings with them.