Dapol Streamlined Railcar

[Miss Prism]

Generally, smaller motors rev higher than larger ones, so require more gears. Thus there is a tradeoff in terms of chassis real estate.

[Floreat Industria]

From very brief research it appears that lamp irons and access steps were fitted from 1938 after failure of the lights on one car. The additional, very prominent horns were fitted from 1939 after track gangs 'complained of the cars' stealthy approach'. The new horns could apparently be heard from 3 miles! (CJL)

I've just been combing Colin Judge's magisterial book re horns. They evidently originally had klaxons, much like buses, and on early photos something can be seen to the right hand side, not protruding very far which I presume is the klaxon. This can clearly be seen on the delivery photos of the last of the batch - parcels car no. 17.

They certainly didn't have the protruding trumpet-like horns fitted centrally later. I will be filling in the holes on my no. 11 and looking for something small and round to fit to the right!

[swiftbeam]

Generally, smaller motors rev higher than larger ones, so require more gears. Thus there is a tradeoff in terms of chassis real estate.

 

Not sure that is right considering other models and scales. a lower mech is very doable in 00.

[Miss Prism]

a lower mech is very doable in 00.

 

Yes of course. The Japanese were doing it 20 years ago. UK RTR design doesn't seem to be interested in that kind of transmission and drive bogie technology.

Edited October 31, 2017 by Miss Prism

[ROSSPOP]

..... I know its all your model(s) etc.... but why waste time with hiding the motor `lump` when there are more glaring details to contemplate.........

 

1.  fitting roller blinds to the windows for as built and into the  1930`s

2.  fitting curtains to the windows after this time.

3. lowering the tops of the seat backs to help disguise that the seating over the motors were higher.

4  fitting what looks like `knee boards` against the windows/seats over the engines.

5 and then add passengers.....

 

Surely you won`t notice the motor lump then.........

 

John

[The Johnster]

Generally, smaller motors rev higher than larger ones, so require more gears. Thus there is a tradeoff in terms of chassis real estate.

 

And drive train efficiency with regard to friction.

[The Johnster]

Drive train efficiency has improved since the old days of Romford gears, which could be very efficient indeed with a simple worm and cog, but had to be very carefully meshed, more carefully the higher (slower) the ratio.  RTR mechanisms in the Triang/Hornby Dublo era tended to be at a final drive ratio of 20 to 1, which on occasions might give reasonably slow performance with the motor cogging but were insanely fast in terms of top speed.  The advantage of 5 or even 7 pole motors over 3 was that cogging was less apparent at slow speeds; the power output was no different.  Higher ratios were probably not practical for factory assembly because of the amount of time you spent accurately meshing them.

 

There was something of a sea change with the Lima/Mainline models of the 70s, which featured 'ringfield' pancake motors and spur gears to achieve more reasonable speeds (Airfix adopted a more traditional approach), but this was at the cost of losing efficiency in the gear train due to friction, especially as cheap plastic gears were used.  This meant that, in order to produce the torque required to overcome the friction, the motors had to run a lot faster; improvements in bearing technology had facilitated this.  The slow running was variable, and good results needed very close attention to quality control.  

 

Modern transmissions are the descendants of this, a hybrid of both styles of approach, and better performing because of the finer tolerances possible with CAD, and better materials that reduce friction, but motors are still fast running to develop sufficient power; this high speed needs gearing down to provide satisfactory running.  Modern RTR is not bad in terms of slow running, and certainly much quieter which suggests less friction, but not as good as I could achieve 30 years with a Romford Terrier or Bulldog and 40:1 gears, and no better than a 3 pole cogging Jinty, an 8th birthday present from 1960, and it is difficult to determine what the final drive ratios are to assess how the loco is likely to perform.

[KNP]

Taken a proper picture of No.8 crossing the viaduct using post focus and continuous lighting rig.

For those that don't follow my layout topic, my cameras post focus mode allows me to focus from 25mm to infinity and through some clever trickery in the camera and a good editing suite I can capture each MP4 frame at a different focal point and put them together as one completely in focus picture.

 

 

Regardless of the interior issues, which I will be sorting out with an upgrade, what a lovely model and picture it takes.

For once some windows that I don't immediately think I need to replace with some laser cut ones!!!

 

 

[Chamby]

Received mine today, many thanks to RoS for a prompt delivery.  No.8 with twin shields motif.  I have mixed feelings about it, tbh.  

 

The packaging is excellent, similar to their class 52 and reminiscent of some of the factory built brass stuff I have ordered from Switzerland in the past.  Definitely creates a very good first impression of quality, and builds up the expectation.

 

Externally the bodywork is very nice, the shape looks right enough and the paint finish is nicely executed.  But I agree with others comments above - turn it over and look underneath, or peer inside the windows and its a bit... errr... Railroad, for want of a better word.  So yes, like others I feel the urge to get my paintbrushes to work on the interior, and adding a few people to mask the bulge.

 

It runs nicely out of the box, does what it should over pointwork and tight reverse curves, though will no doubt benefit from the requisite running in period on the club's continuous run this evening.

 

I think those who need one for their period layout will be pleased with their purchase.  But I don't think this is a model for RTR collectors seeking the finer detail of high fidelity workmanship. 

[bertiedog]

A bit of a curates egg, nice overall but with the problem of the interior and cabs controls missing. It runs fine, but they chose far too large a motor and it has resulted in a bulge in the floor that was quite avoidable. Still what's done is done it cannot easily be altered.

The cab can be improved very easily, but what possessed them to leave it bare?

Also the plain 1960/70's interior colour.

Come on Dapol you must do better!

 

What colour cloth was used on the seats in No11?? it all needs finishing properly.

 

Other markets like Germany would never put up with being palmed off with a part finished model...........

The lighting is good, the wiring OK, but why did they not used a simple power bogie, with any bulge hidden away, leaving the rest open. Any small motor could power it, it is not hauling anything after all.

 

So it cannot be rated 100%, and it has no innovations in design, just a sad air inside of Tri-ang standard finish, with modern exterior detailing.

[swiftbeam]

KNP, that picture is stunning !!!!!!!!

So is the bridge !!!

[Clearwater]

Its noteworthy that in KNP’s excellent photo, you can’t see the offending interior bulge at all.

 

David

[David Bigcheeseplant]

I thought I may laser cut in paper or thin card the curtains they seem to be from the colour photos a red brown colour.

 

David

[Bulldog]

 

 

 

In case anyone is interested in what the inside of the cab of the prototype looks like here is a photo.

Sorry I don't know who took the photo or have any further information about it.

Is there any representation of the cab interior details on the model ?

Cab of GWR Rail car No 4

http://www.flickriver.com/photos/tags/littorini/interesting/

Edited October 31, 2017 by Bulldog

[woodenhead]

In respect to the price, if you think these are expensive for the lack of interior detailing, check out these bad boy railcars at £200

http://www.vintagebritishdiecasts.co.uk/dinky4/dinky26xb.htm 

Edited October 31, 2017 by woodenhead

[melmerby]

In respect to the price, if you think these are expensive for the lack of interior detailing, check out these bad boy railcars at £200

http://www.vintagebritishdiecasts.co.uk/dinky4/dinky26xb.htm 

I just get an error 404 "Page not found"

 

Keith

[TheSignalEngineer]

Try this 

http://www.vintagebritishdiecasts.co.uk/dinky4/dinky26xb.htm

Edited October 31, 2017 by TheSignalEngineer

[Tim Dubya]

Try this:

 

http://www.vintagebritishdiecasts.co.uk/dinky4/dinky26xb.htm

 

SNAP!

.

Edited October 31, 2017 by Tim Dubya

[swiftbeam]

Am I allowed to let people know I'm looking for a mint Hornby R2524 or R2524a GWR  Railcar here? Sorry if no :-(

 

My Dapol needs a stablemate !

Edited October 31, 2017 by swiftbeam

[County of Yorkshire]

Just got home from a bit of late night spotting on the Birmingham Snow Hill to Worcester Line, and saw what I think was Railcar No. 8 on both the outbound and return leg of her journey...

 

 

 

 

Or, it could have been Dapol's latest effort on a rolling road somewhere in the North of England! 

 

My hot take?

 

Exterior Detailing and Finish: 9/10

Interior Detailing and Finish: 3/10

Features (Interior and Directional Lighting): 8/10

Performance on my rolling road so far: 7/10

 

Total Score: 27/40

Verdict: The curate's egg; but no regrets with my purchase. 

 

Cheers, 

 

CoY

Edited October 31, 2017 by County of Yorkshire

[bertiedog]

Unless known by others here to be an exact covering, the consensus of most of the books and the net appear to show the seat cloth was a patterned olive green moquette cloth that was used on the cars that Dapol cover. Some had quite complex patterning, others a quilted appearance, so may have differed across the GWR railcar fleet.

 

Interior shots show that the Dapol only has a passing nod at any fidelity to the real thing, and deserves a better interior.

 

The cabs are easy to correct, a small glued in plasticard unit at each end, leaving the two seats as fitted. I have done the floors and the boxed section, just needs the brakes and controls added.

 

The main unit of the floor could be replaced if a smaller motor is fitted, but with the original, best a paint job on the seats, and the bulge painted in flat grey to hide it behind seated passengers.

 

Roller blinds were mentioned, but in the shots do not seem prominent in the windows pictures on line. Mind you some down near the bulge might help! Each area of the glazing between the windows needs painting in proper wall finish.  The floors seem to have been a lino finish in mid brown, deeper in tone than the Dapol colour used over the lot.

 

No complaints about the exterior at all, minor quibbles aside, due mainly to each unit differing as built, as they were modified as experience was gained in service use.

[Dunsignalling]

Unless known by others here to be an exact covering, the consensus of most of the books and the net appear to show the seat cloth was a patterned olive green moquette cloth that was used on the cars that Dapol cover. Some had quite complex patterning, others a quilted appearance, so may have differed across the GWR railcar fleet.

 

Interior shots show that the Dapol only has a passing nod at any fidelity to the real thing, and deserves a better interior.

 

The cabs are easy to correct, a small glued in plasticard unit at each end, leaving the two seats as fitted. I have done the floors and the boxed section, just needs the brakes and controls added.

 

The main unit of the floor could be replaced if a smaller motor is fitted, but with the original, best a paint job on the seats, and the bulge painted in flat grey to hide it behind seated passengers.

 

Roller blinds were mentioned, but in the shots do not seem prominent in the windows pictures on line. Mind you some down near the bulge might help! Each area of the glazing between the windows needs painting in proper wall finish.  The floors seem to have been a lino finish in mid brown, deeper in tone than the Dapol colour used over the lot.

 

No complaints about the exterior at all, minor quibbles aside, due mainly to each unit differing as built, as they were modified as experience was gained in service use.

So, unless it was a very bold pattern, when reduced to 4mm scale, just painting the seats olive green seems a good bet.

 

It would also seem beneficial to switch off the interior lighting. [see Edit, below] In almost every r-t-r model so equipped (with the honourable exception of Hornby Pullmans), it looks far too bright to be convincing and, in this case, will draw even more attention to the motor cover.

 

Your idea of painting it in a dull/dark shade and screening it from view with strategically placed passengers should do the rest. 

 

All-in-all, there's nothing I can't deal with and whatever I do to it will make it "my" railcar, not just Dapol's. It won't put me off getting one. 

 

John

 

EDIT: Just noticed CoY's photos and, so long as he hasn't tweaked them, the lighting looks uniquely good so switching it off shouldn't be necessary.

Edited November 1, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[bertiedog]

As with most lighting on a plastic glazed model, there is a faint afterglow around the windows etc., and a bit leaks through the paint. but it is slight, and better than most models.

One major modification, a new flywheel on the back end of the motor, as large as possible to give coasting capacity. With no DCC there is a lot of spare space, and if converted the DCC could live in the roof space above the lighting.

[KNP]

KNP, that picture is stunning !!!!!!!!

So is the bridge !!!

 

Thanks, sometimes looking for unusual angles and odd positions can enhance a picture all on it's own. The camera is resting on the lane that goes under the viaduct with a pencil rubber under the lens to point it upwards. All very crude but works so long as I remember to switch the 2 sec timer on otherwise the picture can look like it's an earthquake.

 

The bridge/viaduct has caused much comment on the main site and it is two of the old Triang model I got 10years ago secondhand of e-bay, updated with new coping stones, complete repaint and bricks picked out if different colours etc - guessing I would say this mould has to be around 40 years old!

[Dunsignalling]

Thanks, sometimes looking for unusual angles and odd positions can enhance a picture all on it's own. The camera is resting on the lane that goes under the viaduct with a pencil rubber under the lens to point it upwards. All very crude but works so long as I remember to switch the 2 sec timer on otherwise the picture can look like it's an earthquake.

 

The bridge/viaduct has caused much comment on the main site and it is two of the old Triang model I got 10years ago secondhand of e-bay, updated with new coping stones, complete repaint and bricks picked out if different colours etc - guessing I would say this mould has to be around 40 years old!

It does look very good, and goes to show what a difference some careful, but not especially difficult, "real modelling" can make to the appearance of basic 'as bought' models. It has amply repaid the time and effort invested.

 

John

Edited November 1, 2017 by Dunsignalling