Interview An interview with Simon Kohler

[The Black Hat]

My one and only thought on this thread.

 

Where is there a gap in the market? What does every modeller need?

 

Bachmann, Heljan, Dapol etc don't do it. Hornby do at the moment, but not very well, but if they really improved it's quality.

 

The answer? Good quality ready made bullhead track and points.

 

Just a thought, not necessarily a wish.....

 

Not a North Eastern Modeller then. A gap I think will still exist in the market in an hours time too.

[Obi-Jiff Kenobi]

...once all Hornby staff had been briefed internally.

I had to be briefed internally once, but then the doctor gave me the all-clear!

[Gwiwer]

Well Hornby has gone live 5 minutes early and unsurprisingly perhaps their website is slow to respond or may have crashed under the oceans of foam.

[Obi-Jiff Kenobi]

Having just seen the new items on RMWeb, I'd like to say a massive thank you to whomever at Hornby decided to produce a Gresley P2. That really has made my year!

[Bernard Lamb]

Not a North Eastern Modeller then. A gap I think will still exist in the market in an hours time too.

 

But at least we are now getting a steady increase of locos available that worked north of that gap.

Bernard

[Andy1963]

Not much to get excited about in Hornby's new item announcement, so I won't be contributing to their recovery. Dissapointing.

[Irishswissernie]

According to Hornby's News Release all the P2's were named after Scottish Lairds, I always thought Mons Meg was a large cannon at Edinburgh Castle

[Electrostar]

The Hornby website keeps crashing. Hopefully this a good sign for the success of the industry but a pain for those of us still waiting. I can't seem to find the list on RMWeb either! I fear my phone is caching an old index and there's a whole thread I'm missing!

[Andy Y]

The Hornby website keeps crashing. Hopefully this a good sign for the success of the industry but a pain for those of us still waiting. I can't seem to find the list on RMWeb either! I fear my phone is caching an old index and there's a whole thread I'm missing!

 

As you're on a mobile you probably can't see the link at the top of each page but this should help - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/Hornby2013

[Electrostar]

Thanks Andy!

[Andy Y]

Are you sure it is not the beginning of the end of the world, on Friday?

 

The chain of events has begun (from an email earlier today):

 

 

(Following slacking and skiving at midday) apparently Hornby will also be responsible for a negative impact on GDP and hastening the country tumbling into a triple-dip recession necessitating further cuts in healthcare and council services. The euro will finally disappear up its own rear-end tomorrow, Syria will take the opportunity to invade Turkey and the ensuing WW3 means the prediction for the end of the world on the 21^st December will come true. [Nostrodanus]

 

It’s not to be taken lightly this toy train stuff you know.

[Obi-Jiff Kenobi]

According to Hornby's News Release all the P2's were named after Scottish Lairds, I always thought Mons Meg was a large cannon at Edinburgh Castle

And which Laird exactly was known as Cock O' the North?

 

Actually, come to think of it, with droit de seigneur and all that, it was probably all of 'em!

[emt_911]

I for one am not impressed with the Hornby announcement.

 

Firstly, they obviously did not manage their IT properly to deal with the initial demand on the web site.

 

Secondly, there are a couple of items that are of interest to me, however, I certainly could not justify the expence especialy when I can attempt to modify any existing items or build them from kits with less of an outlay.

[Andy Y]

Firstly, they obviously did not manage their IT properly to deal with the initial demand on the web site.

 

They tripled the bandwidth available and usage well above previous experiences caused some delays so your comment isn't entirely fair.

[Budgie]

Secondly, there are a couple of items that are of interest to me, however, I certainly could not justify the expense especially when I can attempt to modify any existing items or build them from kits with less of an outlay.

 

I don't understand what you're trying to say here. If you're happy modifying existing items or building from kits then that is your take on the hobby; nobody is forcing you to buy Hornby's offerings. In any case there's no point in complaining about Hornby's prices; they are set at the published level in order to keep Hornby in business, which many of us think is a good idea.

[emt_911]

Andy,

 

Point taken

 

Budgie,

 

What I was trying to say, and failed, is that I would prefer to be able to afford RTR than expend the time, and grief from SWMBO, modifying or building stock.

[Ozexpatriate]

Design Clever

 

Firstly, I like to thank Andy for providing some background on 'design clever' in the Hornby announcement thread.

 

This is a topic where I think we will see a lot more discussion. I pulled a couple of samples from the 'news' thread that I particularly resonated with and put them here:

 

Can someone explain to me how Design Clever (with its moulded on pipework and vents) differs from the way Triang and Lima used to design models in the 60s, 70s and 80s?

Must admit that it's leaving me a tad puzzled - I thought that the Maunsell torpedo vents were beautiful on their coaches. Their plug in nature made them recyclable when doing conversions. To see them replaced with a moulded blob is a retrograde step in my eyes.

Not so sure on this design clever business

While it looks fine on the coaches with the moulded vents, it looks very crude in the cad drawings for the duke vs separate bits on the Brit

 

Made worse by Hornby's livery choices, with only be modellers getting a detailed hall and gw getting stuck with railroad...

... it was a retrograde step in terms of quality on something I thought was very, very good - better than any white metal version. I can completely understand why they are doing it, I just mourn the loss of such a beautiful bit of finishing which lifted the quality of original models. The fact they were removable and reusable was a bonus to me not a reason for Hornby doing them that way. I hope we're not seeing a return to moulded handrails too.

Having had more to to absorb the news, Hornby is definitely not Bachmann. Hornby re-uses innapropriate pony trucks and whole chassis from previous models instead of going the whole mile like its competitor, and as for the return to moulded handrail Triang technology, no amount of 'clever technology' buzzwords disguises what is essentially a retro-move in anyones language.

 

iL Dottore recently made a compelling post on designing to a price. We understand that and in some ways it's nice to see. I believe the design clever is more than simply reducing labour costs. There are serious QA problems with the highly detailed models. Tintagel Castle demonstrated this - and I have seen a similar problem with Bachmann Branch Line models (a smokebox door from a City came broken off). I suspect that design clever is intended as much to address QA as direct labour cost. This is inextricably linked to price.

 

The market has transformed to the point where many times we are now required to place orders ahead of time. (Living where I do, this is essential.) In the recent past we could do this with confidence - expecting a very high finish. My confidence is now eroding.

 

How do we tell ahead of time exactly what 'design clever' measures have been taken - like the moulded handrails on the Tornado? I understand that this is the case for versions with the high spec paint and without.

 

Will the Railroad GWR Hall have moulded handrails? What livery is this? Early Collett / roundell / Hawksworth? I'd like to be able to make an informed choice.

 

I love Hornby, and I know they are working on it but have done a really poor job in the last couple of years of communicating *exactly* what a model will look like. I have the Commonwealth of Australia A4 on order and I'm wondering what the nameplates will look like - and this is a high-spec model.

 

The other issue is the hit or miss with livery. I am so delighted with the choice of a Star. I want one in early Collett livery and indeed, one is being made - but only as a special and only DCC fitted. OK, I am happy to support STEAM and can de-chip it if necessary, but there's an element of random luck here.

 

I understand the business motivations for the design clever philosopy but Hornby need to do a better job of communicating what their products will look like.

[Andy Y]

There's some intelligent questioning in there Oz and I do agree that some more clarity would be helpful. I'll endeavour to get that for you on the specific points. I did go back to Simon on a few points myself to write the analysis and fill in some blanks that would be there from the straight lists. Aside from Pat Hammond's analysis for MREmag I haven't seen much reference on the 'net to the design considerations other than those which came from the interview with SK but I felt it one of the most relevant aspects of this year's announcements. The acknowledgement of rising prices and the supply chain issues and evidence that things will change is, I feel positive, but, in agreement with your post, we need to know the detail to see what it all really means.

[Barry O]

Design clever appears to be Design for manufacture or Lean design - something used in most engineering based developments. I think Hornby have taken a major step forward by thinking about better ways of designing for manufacture/build and we should see the benefits.

 

 

As for the news today - congratulations to Hornby - even though I am not a Southern Modeller the 2 BIL may end up heading my way - I have happy memories of a private viewing of this set in Brighton Shed a long time ago and the model looks stunning

[Guest jim s-w]

Thats why i wondered if they were pre approved questions Andy (i know you said they werent). It was the way that Simon threw in phrases like 'design clever' but didnt really explain what it meant while you seemed to let it go and move on to the next question. The whole thing has a little bit of a 'im going to give you a marketing breifing disguised as a question and answer session' about it really but then we dont know what restrictions you were placed under.

 

Its one of those asks more questions than it answers things but thats not to say its a bad thing, overall i thought it was a fine effort.

 

Cheers

 

Jim

[Ozexpatriate]

My favourite observation on 'design clever' has to be this one:

 

Why has everyone missed the bottom line of the Hornby announcement?

"Hornby is pleased to announce that as of 1^st January 2013 we will be rebranding using our former name. Tri-ang was launched in 1953 and became the first British manufacturer of Ready to Run OO model railways. Over the years Tri-ang has lead and many have tried to copy; Design Clever is the next step which we feel will help modellers get into the spirit of the birth of British RTR model railways. With the 60^th anniversary approaching Hornby feel that it is right to step back 60 years and to celebrate by changing our trading name to Tri-ang-Hornby."

 

It had quite a few people going. (It was in quotes, it had to be real!) So much so that after a few "I like the Tri-ang branding" posts, I actually went looking for it, wondering if it might actually be legitimate instead of the parody I originally assumed it to be.

 

Poe's Law. It's a beautiful thing.

[Andy Y]

Thats why i wondered if they were pre approved questions Andy (i know you said they werent). It was the way that Simon threw in phrases like 'design clever' but didnt really explain what it meant while you seemed to let it go and move on to the next question. The whole thing has a little bit of a 'im going to give you a marketing breifing disguised as a question and answer session' about it really but then we dont know what restrictions you were placed under.

 

Maybe it's fair to put it into context and advise that the questions were asked after I knew what was coming; read in that light some of the questions make more sense but I had to phrase them in a way that they could be published before the announcements were made.

 

Andy: “The interim report states ‘We are continuing to develop locomotives and rolling stock to our revised design clever specification’. What does this mean for Hornby and what is the benefit for modellers?”

 

Simon: “‘Design Clever’ is an internal term we have been using to review how we get the detail into the product in the most cost efficient manner. “

 

I therefore referenced it back to a prior public appearance of the phrase and I knew Simon's answer would become more relevant today but the question was there to flag it up as noteworthy when it came to the analysis.

[Guest jim s-w]

Maybe it's fair to put it into context and advise that the questions were asked after I knew what was coming; read in that light some of the questions make more sense but I had to phrase them in a way that they could be published before the announcements were made.

 

I see and yes they do.

 

Cheers

 

Jim

[Retro_man]

 

Of all the young people you know, say under 12, who do you know thats getting a train set?

 

I'd say the trainset market for kids is basically dead. I would venture to suggest that trainsets are now being bought by adults 40+ out of a sense of nostalgia.

 

We are the largest stockist of British model trains in North America east of the Rockies and I have seen no evidence here to support the above statements as we have sold more trainsets this year than in any year since we started business (2005). I can also say that the train sets are being purchased almost exclusively by parents for their young children, and in most cases the parents have no previous model railway background. The types of train sets being purchased include Hornby, Hornby Thomas, Bachmann Thomas and Bachmann Branchlines and we are shipping them throughout Canada and the USA. Not sure exactly what this means but it looks good for the future of the hobby.

 

Steve

Model Railway Imports

[Ron Ron Ron]

We are the largest stockist of British model trains in North America east of the Rockies.......

 

The toy purchasing landscape "over there" may or may not bear any relationship to the corresponding landscape 'over here", so it may be nearly impossible to make comparisons.

However I believe Legend's comments are quite close to accurate for the UK toy market.

 

Even 10 years or so ago when my son had a Hornby train set, not one of his schoolmates had one and in our reasonably well size group of friends and neighbours, only one other family had a train set with one of their two boys (IIRC he gave up on that at around the age of 9).

More recently the subject came up at a dinner party, following the James May series on toys (when was that, 3 years ago or more?). It came out that of the 4 couples there, we were the only ones who had bought a train set for one of our children.

 

Not only that, the notion seems to be scoffed at by certain parents, who think that kids need to move on and grow up much more quickly and follow more "creditable" past times.

Something like a train set is often seen as something for very small children and often older kids see it that way too. There's a sense that "toys" are something you leave behind well before you move on to secondary school.

 

I can't imagine that situation has changed too much in recent years.

 

p.s. I note that in a local large toy warehouse and in the large toy department of a nearby (well known) department store, there are no Hornby train items on sale.

 

 

....it looks good for the future of the hobby.

 

Steve, I'm always puzzled by this supposed link between toy trains for tots and young children ....and the model railway hobby.

Personally I don't believe it exists any longer and hasn't done for a very long time.

 

When I was a child and I'm sure this goes for others on here, a train set like many other toys, was a treasured item that you kept and cherished right into your teens.

For some it went hand in hand with an interest in the real railway. Regardless many will feel a warm nostalgic glow when they remember those days of old.

Today's world is very different and toys, like many consumer goods are viewed as transient items, used for a while and then discarded.

I have even seen a Hornby train set, of probably no more than a few years vintage, in one of the large skips at our local council waste disposal centre (the tip to me).

 

With the age of "growing out of toys" getting ever younger and the attitude of disposability towards such products, I can only see the gap and link between train sets for children and the "adult" model hobby getting even wider (if it wasn't already a huge Gulf).

 

 

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