fender Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Just moved into a new house and it turns out the room I had my eye on for a layout is not going to accommodate what I hoped it might. I was hoping to make a 1950s 4mm scale-length model of a Cornish station, Bugle (3.1m), Roche (2.8m), Hayle (2.6m) and Redruth (2.4m) all seemed likely candidates, but calling it 60cm either end for an off-scene curve to a fiddle yard would put all of them out of contention for the size of the room, which is 3.9m long, and I could manage I'd say a max of 1m layout width. I could go with Hayle or Redruth but I'd need two quite long fiddle yards along the side walls to have anything approaching scale-length trains, and Redruth (the easiest) doesn't have any sidings...(although with the tunnel is a perfect project for hidden sidings, at one end anyway!) So before I delve off into the imagination, do you have any suggestions for real Cornish locations, not just stations, that might fit into this space? I had planned for this to be part of some future much-larger layout (if I ever get the space), perhaps off into the garden in a future home, so I would like there to be some 'purpose' to the layout: a real place where I can look forward to modelling other things up or down the line. one of the best stations I've thought of is St Ives (3.2m). That would be a great project and would fit in the room. The only problem is that there were only (afaik) 45XXs operating, which would limit future purchases of locos... any ideas welcome. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I take it you want craploads of locos? Why not model a vignette of a main line? You can then sit and watch trains going backwards and forwards - then should your circumstances change for the better you could incorporate the scenic section into any future plans. You've already discovered the problems with small BLT's. Just a thought.. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fender Posted December 9, 2012 Author Share Posted December 9, 2012 I take it you want craploads of locos? Why not model a vignette of a main line? You can then sit and watch trains going backwards and forwards - then should your circumstances change for the better you could incorporate the scenic section into any future plans. You've already discovered the problems with small BLT's. Just a thought.. Best, Pete. ha ha. no I just don't want to be stuck with only one kind of loco, although I could perhaps model St Ives over a range of years, including a few years of Class 22s, although the engine shed was pulled down in '61, so keeping it 'real' would mean the layout couldn't have anything that didn't run before that. your idea about a section of main line is something I'm thinking about -thanks. another one I'm thinking of is Looe, although that didn't even have any corridor coaches, let alone lots of locos! Falmouth would have been perfect as a terminus, but it's too big (4m), and Newquay is enormous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Have you considered selective compression. I faced a similar problem with the layout I'm building and solved it by applying variable compression to the whole layout. Around the station everything is around 85-90% of the scale size of the prototype, so the platform is still longer than a typical train and the loop is long enough for almost anything that ever ran on the line. To either side of the station the compression increases so that sidings and yards are 60-80% of the true scale size. At worst, it means losing a single coach or a couple of wagons from the longest trains but there is still plenty of room to run typical trains. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 How about Penryn or Perranwell on the Falmouth branch if you want through stations? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fender Posted December 9, 2012 Author Share Posted December 9, 2012 Have you considered selective compression. I faced a similar problem with the layout I'm building and solved it by applying variable compression to the whole layout. Around the station everything is around 85-90% of the scale size of the prototype, so the platform is still longer than a typical train and the loop is long enough for almost anything that ever ran on the line. To either side of the station the compression increases so that sidings and yards are 60-80% of the true scale size. At worst, it means losing a single coach or a couple of wagons from the longest trains but there is still plenty of room to run typical trains. Nick I have, and if I can't think of anything else then I may do this. I just have this idea that I'd like to do a layout as close to reality as possible (although I doubt I will go down the P4 route). plus, going down to 85% will only really bring Roche into the equation (due to the particular size of the room and the possible prototypes.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fender Posted December 9, 2012 Author Share Posted December 9, 2012 How about Penryn or Perranwell on the Falmouth branch if you want through stations? both were big front-runners until I saw the size of the room. Perranwell had long cattle-dock sidings which would take the layout to 6m. I could truncate those, but it would still be too long I'm afraid. it's a shame as I really like Perranwell. a perfect branch through-station if I ever saw one. Penryn is also a bit too long and unfortunately hampered by lack of photos. I have lots but many are from before the whole station was moved to one side in the 20s.... --------- I fear I may come across as a bit negative with my replies, but that's because I have already measured almost all the stations in Cornwall, apart from the Chacewater branch. I do appreciate the suggestions though. perhaps I should alter my request: does anyone have any suggestions of locations that are not stations in Cornwall, that might fit into the space? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Just in case I wasn't clear my idea of a mainline vignette does not include a station but may include something of interest like a nice bridge, or something operationally interesting. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fender Posted December 9, 2012 Author Share Posted December 9, 2012 Just in case I wasn't clear my idea of a mainline vignette does not include a station but may include something of interest like a nice bridge, or something operationally interesting. Best, Pete. oh yes, I got that. thanks Pete. --------- Mickey, I'm going to look at Luxulyan again. thanks for mentioning that. there's a long loop that I think I counted as part of the layout, but it really doesn't have to be. I'll see how long it would be without the whole loop. I don't have much info on Fowey. I'll have to look into that one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Cober viaduct on the Helston branch? It's already on a curve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fender Posted December 9, 2012 Author Share Posted December 9, 2012 Cober viaduct on the Helston branch? It's already on a curve. not sure I'd do that one, as the Helston branch suffers from the same 'rolling stock' issues as some of the others, but the idea of a centrepiece viaduct is something to consider. hmmmm...plus, the idea of a non-stopping place, where the trains simply run through, as you and Pete have suggested, would preclude the need to have points, which could be a bonus for modelling EM or even P4 (although I would be lumping my future self with a lot of work if I ever am able to extend the layout to somewhere else. ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Hayle viaduct and a bit of the the quay? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R A Watson Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Have you thought of Saltash,it's on a curve which will help with the length plus through main line trains and the local services to Plymouth. Single line one end, double track at the other, milk trains empty arriving and full departing. It will only need a reasonably short space (especially if you compress the goods yard) so may well fill the bill. Plus if you move to a larger place later there is a nice bridge for you to do a Ron Heggs on later, Wally Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 would preclude the need to have points, which could be a bonus for modelling EM or even P4 (although I would be lumping my future self with a lot of work if I ever am able to extend the layout to somewhere else) Previously you mentioned 60cm (2ft) radius at either end. That's fine for 00, but for EM and P4 it's pushing it. Most P4 minimum radii I've seen are in the 4ft (1.2m) region, so to get something like that into your space you're taking up just under 8'6 of your 12'9" space - leaving a straight line of about 4ft. Is that what you want? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted December 9, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 9, 2012 How about something on the Withered Arm? Or Truro, but just the loco shed and the goods sidings, if there's room? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted December 9, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 9, 2012 Interesting you seem to have rejected the Chacewater branch, as there were several small stations on there ( and the line history can be tweaked ), but have you considered the Newham branch ? Stu Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Brinkly Posted December 9, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 9, 2012 I have a plan for Bodmin Road, which is 14ft by 9ft (GWR Mainline) and Port Isaac Road (Withered Arm) which is 10ft by 7ft. Both are in Iain Rice's Mainlines in Modest Spaces book. Any good? Both plans are candidates that I nearly built. Regards, Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted December 9, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 9, 2012 Since you do not seem to have settled on a particular place, it would help if you decide between 00 EM and P4 which will give some idea of the minimum radius of the end curves which is also related to the stock. If you opt for 6in clearance at either end then you will lose between 1.5m and 2.3m (assuming you can live with 1m radius in P4) which leaves 2.4m and 1.6m. Any turnouts on the ends curves will tend to ease the radius and take up more room so from the above it is Redruth in 00 or Pete's scenic centrepiece in P4. You may wish to reconsider the idea of compression. Besides I thought you had a nice plan for Bugle? Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fender Posted December 9, 2012 Author Share Posted December 9, 2012 wow, thanks for all the replies. Hayle viaduct and a bit of the the quay? it's funny as Hayle station was one of my top contenders, and I had the idea that maybe in the future I could model the viaduct but tbh it would be a good choice for a viaduct to start with, as if I ever got the space I'd be able to stick the station on the end. I'm not sure which is longer so I'll have a look. Have you thought of Saltash,it's on a curve which will help with the length plus through main line trains and the local services to Plymouth. Single line one end, double track at the other, milk trains empty arriving and full departing. It will only need a reasonably short space (especially if you compress the goods yard) so may well fill the bill. Plus if you move to a larger place later there is a nice bridge for you to do a Ron Heggs on later, Wally yes Saltash is on my list, and at only 2.5m it could be a possibility. I just wonder if building the station by itself would be ignoring the 'elephant in the room'. however, in all seriousness, Saltash, Hayle and Redruth are all good as they have viaducts/bridges right next to them, but I think the problem is the scale train length with a mainline station. Previously you mentioned 60cm (2ft) radius at either end. That's fine for 00, but for EM and P4 it's pushing it. Most P4 minimum radii I've seen are in the 4ft (1.2m) region, so to get something like that into your space you're taking up just under 8'6 of your 12'9" space - leaving a straight line of about 4ft. Is that what you want? er....no. I hadn't thought of that. I thought a 2ft radius would be enough...hmmm....I will have to revise things a little then. I doubt P4 is seriously an option for me, but I was having a good look at EM. maybe I will have to have a much shorter layout after all...or stick with 00 but with FS track. a possibility? How about something on the Withered Arm? Or Truro, but just the loco shed and the goods sidings, if there's room? "withered arm"? I had to look that up. nope, has to be GWR. a part of a station could be a good idea though. Interesting you seem to have rejected the Chacewater branch, as there were several small stations on there ( and the line history can be tweaked ), but have you considered the Newham branch ? Stu nooo! I haven't rejected the Chacewater at all. I simply haven't measured the stations (except Perranporth). I had hesitated with Chacewater, Helston and Newham as they all had limited locos running and no mainline coaches (of which I have quite a few), but at this point I'm considering anything. at this point it's pretty clear that I cannot have my cake and eat it too. I will have to compromise on something (who ever heard of that? ) I have a plan for Bodmin Road, which is 14ft by 9ft (GWR Mainline) and Port Isaac Road (Withered Arm) which is 10ft by 7ft. Both are in Iain Rice's Mainlines in Modest Spaces book. Any good? Both plans are candidates that I nearly built. Regards, Nick Bodmin's a little big, but thanks. ----------- you know it has occurred to me that Beeching made the situation much simpler for people with my requirements.....but going for a later era would mean abandoning steam. I don't want to do that though. unfortunately I don't have access to all my books yet so I can't scour the pages for ideas in between stations. there is a section just after Saltash on the CML (down direction). I can't remember the name but it used to have a goods loop and there is a bridge from which many photos have been taken. anyway, I'm going to think about something like that, but on a branch line. maybe part of Penwithers junction, for example, or part of Goodbarrow. then there's the really easy option, which I haven't ruled out either: Lelant. one track, no sidings, nice scenic potential, and I don't think it changed much over the years so I could run all kinds of things from different eras. still, perhaps a little dull operationally speaking. thanks for everyone's contributions. lots to think about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fender Posted December 9, 2012 Author Share Posted December 9, 2012 Since you do not seem to have settled on a particular place, it would help if you decide between 00 EM and P4 which will give some idea of the minimum radius of the end curves which is also related to the stock. If you opt for 6in clearance at either end then you will lose between 1.5m and 2.3m (assuming you can live with 1m radius in P4) which leaves 2.4m and 1.6m. Any turnouts on the ends curves will tend to ease the radius and take up more room so from the above it is Redruth in 00 or Pete's scenic centrepiece in P4. You may wish to reconsider the idea of compression. Besides I thought you had a nice plan for Bugle? Don you're right, I haven't really finished figuring out how much space I have until I decide on the track gauge.... what about 00 FS, what minimum radius could I get away with? (for planning purposes) Bugle looks like a nice station, with lots of operating potential with the the clay branches just on the Down side, and Goonbarrow just Up. if I do give in and use compression then Bugle will be high on the list. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornish trains jez Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Hi, Have you considered N scale? There are some great steam locos becoming available now for the 50's era. And you could model a mainline station comfortably with scale length trains. I'm currently doing Par and the full layout measures 3.5m x 1.05m to include the fiddle yard. Best regards, Jeremy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fender Posted December 9, 2012 Author Share Posted December 9, 2012 Hi, Have you considered N scale? There are some great steam locos becoming available now for the 50's era. And you could model a mainline station comfortably with scale length trains. I'm currently doing Par and the full layout measures 3.5m x 1.05m to include the fiddle yard. Best regards, Jeremy I am keeping half an eye on this idea but there are two things putting me off: the range doesn't seem to be anywhere near as good as 00, although I don't think I've found all the manufacturers yet, and also that if, and it's a big if, I was ever able to put things in the garden then N would probably be too small. however, as I said before, I'll have to compromise somewhere. next time I go near a model shop I'm going to have a good look at N-gauge, which I've usually ignored in the past. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted December 10, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 10, 2012 If you are prepared to think about N why not go for 2mFS. Have a look at some of the stuff in the 2mm scale section on here. I have the parts for a scale chassis for a 57xx (for Farish body) 45xx (Dapol body) and am awaiting one for a Manor (Ixion/Dapol body). Verry similar to going P4. Don Parts from 2mmScale Association or members of the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ramblin Rich Posted December 10, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 10, 2012 I hate to be a fly in the ointment, especially as I don't have any helpful suggestions, but if you're contemplating a main line scenario, will you have enough room for an off-stage area to accomodate all the long trains you might require? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted December 10, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 10, 2012 St Germans has a convenient overbridge for a scenic break at one end, plus a small yard and signal box in steam days. Coombe Junction might make a good and 'different' layout - an overbridge again at the Moorswater end... Any potential with somewhere like Marazion? Gwinear Road was (is) on a sharp curve, with interesting features like a branch line junction and a level crossing - the sharp curve might be useful in terms of how you fit the continuous run in your railway room? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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