Guest jim s-w Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Clearly there are a number of people who are passionate about overhead electric traction, but I'm a bit confused.Why is it so important to have working OHLE? Surely the first objective is to make it look right and function reliably at the same time. This can readily be accomplished with power from the rails.From an appearance standpoint, I understand why people want properly scaled pantographs and roof-top details. Clearly these should be to the same standard as the rest of the model.What am I missing? If you have a simple layout there's no reason not too. After all its nothing more clever than soldering a wire to one of the masts and some people will place great importance on the technical prowess of doing so. However if your layout is a bit complex, has a big fiddleyard or you run DCC its adds complexity, inconvenience and in the case of the fiddleyard can double the storage required (and the size of the vehicle to move it) for absolutely no gain what so ever Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matabiau Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 The first of Hornby's 2013 releases is now available to buy on their website so only a matter of days before the 2-BIL will be in the shops. Currently only the Southern model is available, I'm sure the others are to follow shortly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggesford box Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 I used to model French overhead DC electrics in HO and would agree with much of what is said in post 2064. I would imagine the European market for overhead electrification is much bigger not only because the whole market for models is bigger but that prototype overhead electrification was more widespread and earlier than in this country (I realise there where some early schemes in this country but on a relatively limited scale). Whilst I much admire the work of the likes of Jim S- W and how lifelike his catenary is I think many (certainly myself) would require something a little more robust if we where not to spend much of our time repairing it. Cleaning track and rerailing stock underneath it is a pain. The mainstream manufacturers would then have to compromise between scale appearance and robustness.From my own experience you would still end up making up much of your own catenary anyway since standard lengths would not fit every situation. I found it a pain soldering up my own catenary though admitedly DC knitting is more complicated than AC. Obviously, I am not saying it cannot be done, many fine layouts with overhead electrification have been done but if I where a manufacturer in this country I would be very wary of investing to much in overheads. Suffice it to say, if I build another French layout it would be a secondary with diesel haulage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 The first of Hornby's 2013 releases is now available to buy on their website so only a matter of days before the 2-BIL will be in the shops. Currently only the Southern model is available, I'm sure the others are to follow shortly.Indeed so ... Welcome to the Hornby newsletter... One of the most well-received models in our 2013 range announcement was our new 2-BIL 2 Car Electric Multiple Unit Train Packs. We are thrilled to announce that the first of these train packs is now available to buy from the Hornby website. Be among the first to own this highly anticipated model and enjoy free UK P&P when you order today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 30, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 30, 2013 Presumably the expression "most well-received" comes from the new Design Clever English Dictionary? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Surprise, surprise! The tired old 78 jumping in the groove again. There seems little point posting in threads like this these days as whatever one mumbles, the vast army of naysayers will pounce from the shadows and destroy any suggestion of that "awful" word change. One reaps what one sows, is all that I will say. Apart from anything else, working catenary can add a secondary power source to two rail operation and can even add a novel way of isolating sections of track. But the idea of realistic arching and the cathartic pleasure one gets knowing that the locos are working like their big cousins, is obviously utterly trite and irrelevant in this quick fix society of ours. What an utterly cretinous idea! Working catenary? Whatever next? Model roads that work in a realistic way using a system of magnets hidden in the road surface? Perish the thought this instant. Time to get out the garlic... Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Sasquatch Posted January 30, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 30, 2013 I dunno about working over head I want working third rail to justfy one of these? Now available on Hornbys website "free post" to UK addresses I believe (you lucky B........rs). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Surprise, surprise! The tired old 78 jumping in the groove again. There seems little point posting in threads like this these days as whatever one mumbles, the vast army of naysayers will pounce from the shadows and destroy any suggestion of that "awful" word change. One reaps what one sows, is all that I will say. Apart from anything else, working catenary can add a secondary power source to two rail operation and can even add a novel way of isolating sections of track. But the idea of realistic arching and the cathartic pleasure one gets knowing that the locos are working like their big cousins, is obviously utterly trite and irrelevant in this quick fix society of ours. Particularly useful as a source of lighting power for non-DCC layouts... Alternatively on an all-electric layout, the catenary and one running rail can be used as the power supply, with the other rail used for track circuits! Though of course both options would require some rewiring of the loco to achieve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Surprise, surprise! The tired old 78 jumping in the groove again. There seems little point posting in threads like this these days as whatever one mumbles, the vast army of naysayers will pounce from the shadows and destroy any suggestion of that "awful" word change. One reaps what one sows, is all that I will say. Apart from anything else, working catenary can add a secondary power source to two rail operation and can even add a novel way of isolating sections of track. But the idea of realistic arching and the cathartic pleasure one gets knowing that the locos are working like their big cousins, is obviously utterly trite and irrelevant in this quick fix society of ours. What an utterly cretinous idea! Working catenary? Whatever next? Model roads that work in a realistic way using a system of magnets hidden in the road surface? Perish the thought this instant. Time to get out the garlic...Simon Simon Do you really think that having working third rail elevates your little layout over someone elses who doesnt? Thats what its really about isnt it? If you are going to have working overhead why feed it with dc when the real thing is ac? Why power a big motor in the middle of a loco that drives the bogies through cardan shafts and gearboxes when that nothing like the way the real thing works? Do you really think powered overhead moves you anywhere nearer to the real thing when you think about it? I know this is one of your pet topics and you like to run down those who dont agree with you but really, if the best arguement you can come up with for working overhead is 'why not', thats fair enough but I have given you practical reasons for 'why?' too. At the end of the day i will appreciate your layout for how it looks and how it runs. The fact that you pick up from the third rail wont make the slightest bit of difference to me and to be honest i'm more inclined to wonder why bother wasting your time on it. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted January 30, 2013 Author Share Posted January 30, 2013 No need to be so aggressive Jim. {The above comment was made before aggressive comments were removed by Jim, next time I'll make sure I quote it or lock the post so I don't have someone playing silly beggars making me look as though I've been the one kicking something off} Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Design Clever........... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Surprise, surprise! The tired old 78 jumping in the groove again. There seems little point posting in threads like this these days as whatever one mumbles, the vast army of naysayers will pounce from the shadows and destroy any suggestion of that "awful" word change. One reaps what one sows, is all that I will say. Apart from anything else, working catenary can add a secondary power source to two rail operation and can even add a novel way of isolating sections of track. But the idea of realistic arching and the cathartic pleasure one gets knowing that the locos are working like their big cousins, is obviously utterly trite and irrelevant in this quick fix society of ours. What an utterly cretinous idea! Working catenary? Whatever next? Model roads that work in a realistic way using a system of magnets hidden in the road surface? Perish the thought this instant. Time to get out the garlic... Simon Several posters in this thread have pointed out the pros and cons of modelling it, or it being sold RTR in this country. They've been rather balanced and measured in their approach and response to your points. Why do you feel the need to run them down so aggressively? I don't think it's a case of "not wanting change" but more the rather more reasonable economic and social reasons for not having working catenary in the UK. I don't buy the "chicken and egg" scenario - if working catenary was such a sought after item in the UK it would have happened long before now. The fact that working steam in OO gauge was considered to be worth the time in R&D by Hornby, only for sales to be disappointing afterwards, would suggest British modellers for the most part don't actually care how the model moves, so long as it moves and looks the part doing so. In an age where one major manufacturer is actively trying to reduce construction costs and simplify the way their models are being made, working catenary to me seems to be pointing to the complete opposite of that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebottle Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Design Clever........... WEB Hornby Star.jpg Now, as a non-believer when it comes to the GWR, why do I find the Star so much more pleasing to the eye than the later 4-6-0s? Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Now, as a non-believer when it comes to the GWR, why do I find the Star so much more pleasing to the eye than the later 4-6-0s? Gordon I don't think you are alone in this. The Churchward 4-6-0's and particularly the 'Star' looked neat and balanced whereas something was lost when Collett put the boilers on steriods and produced the 'Castle' and 'King'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jason T Posted January 30, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 30, 2013 I missed that at first Larry I wonder if Simon Kohler is still looking at this thread, or whether he is now wishing that he had taken that role in the Scalextrix division instead, where all people care about is whether the car will survive flying off the track and hitting the skirting board or not Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dilbert Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Time to get out the garlic... I wonder if Simon Kohler is still looking at this thread, SK is probably thinking that this thread sucks at night... dilbert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebottle Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 The phrase Western Great is used in the fashion of the old Guiness adverts that went "Ness a Guin, Ness a Guin" spoke faster and faster......... Its a well tried way to get the non believers to say the One True Railway Moderator! Mickey's trying to brainwash me! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 The phrase Western Great is used in the fashion of the old Guiness adverts that went "Ness a Guin, Ness a Guin" spoke faster and faster......... Its a well tried way to get the non believers to say the One True Railway You mean, like the Siamese National anthem (sung to the same tune as ours!): "O wattana Siam O wattana Siam O wattanas O wattana Siam O wattana Siam O watta wattana Siam O wattanas....." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 The phrase Western Great is used in the fashion of the old Guiness adverts that went "Ness a Guin, Ness a Guin" spoke faster and faster......... Its a well tried way to get the non believers to say the One True Railway Reminds me of the "Earwig Lament" so beloved of footy fans, you know the one which comprises the words "Oh, Earwig Oh" sung ad nauseum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian J. Posted January 31, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 31, 2013 I think this thread may now be well and truly beyond hope Edit: to add missed word 'think' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 No need to be so aggressive Jim. {The above comment was made before aggressive comments were removed by Jim, next time I'll make sure I quote it or lock the post so I don't have someone playing silly beggars making me look as though I've been the one kicking something off} For the benefit of completeness what i said was "If you are going to have working overhead why feed it with dc when the real thing is ac? Why power a big motor in the middle of a loco that drives the bogies through cardan shafts and gearboxes when that nothing like the way the real thing works? If anyone thinks powered overhead moves you anywhere nearer to the real thing then they dont have a clue" Obviously once Andy pointed out that he thought my post was aggressive I went back and toned it down, I thought that was why he posted. Given the original post i was replying to (and that another poster also thought it was very aggressive) im not sure why i was singled out but i appologise to oldlugger if he found my comments too agressive. Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Brasher Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 No need to be so aggressive Jim. {The above comment was made before aggressive comments were removed by Jim, next time I'll make sure I quote it or lock the post so I don't have someone playing silly beggars making me look as though I've been the one kicking something off} There are a number of posts on this topic that have made no useful contribution to this topic and I am surprised that they have not been deleted. Examples include posts 1978,1995,1996,1997,1998,1999,2000,2002,2004 and 2005. I am also surprised by the number of sarcastic and "wiser than thou" comments which are absent in other web sites like grahammuz.com that gives an air of professionalism that seems to be lacking in some of the posts on this site. I am sorry that this statement does not make a useful contribution either but I would like to put on some information when the Hornby Southern 2-BIL comes out in the next week or so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted January 31, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 31, 2013 Now, as a non-believer when it comes to the GWR, why do I find the Star so much more pleasing to the eye than the later 4-6-0s? Gordon I don't think you are alone in this. The Churchward 4-6-0's and particularly the 'Star' looked neat and balanced whereas something was lost when Collett put the boilers on steriods and produced the 'Castle' and 'King'. For me personally it's the cab. I appreciate that the Collett cab has more protection for the footplate crew and probably other advantages too, but the earlier Churchward version just looks "right" somehow. Look at a 28xx next to a 2884 and also 43xx with Churchward and Collett cabs and the Churchward version wins on looks every time. EDIT to correct spelling mistakes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45568 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 There are a number of posts on this topic that have made no useful contribution to this topic and I am surprised that they have not been deleted. You're not wrong there!!! Peter C. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jason T Posted January 31, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 31, 2013 Is it wrong to be disappointed that neither of my 'helpful' posts were referenced in Robin's Idiot List, or was my Chonion story deemed relevant? :D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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