RJL Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Seeing Hornby's new Sentinel loco brought back childhood memories of the 0-8-0 Sentinels which used to work the " Pit Branch" from Langley Mill exchange sidings to Moorgreen Pit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammy Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 B****y h**l 3 days and no one has posted after 89 pages have we covered it all lol :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium New Haven Neil Posted February 10, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 10, 2013 All awaiting 2-BIL's with bated breath...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 When do we start chewing the fat over Bachmann developments? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 When do we start chewing the fat over Bachmann developments? Yeah 89 pages! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 When do we start chewing the fat over Bachmann developments? Arrrrggggghhhhh! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 When do we start chewing the fat over Bachmann developments? As someone with a preference for the Bachmann products (excluding the class 25 and class 40 diesels !!!) I rarely feel the need to chew the fat. It would be really good for Margate to study the Bachmann Branchline catalogue and understand how a full range of rolling stock all has the same type of coupling and seamlessly matches. A freight loco such as a 9F or a 7F could be matched to 20 or 30 different wagons to recreate a realistic looking freight train. What can Hornby hang on the back of an 8F, a 28xx or one of those beautiful new 72xx ? They don't even have a scale GWR/BR(WR) "Toad" for a start, let alone a scale 16T mineral wagon. I rest my case Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 To be fair, I do feel there has been some useful cross-pollination (is that the appropriate biological analogue?) as Hornby have made moves toward a more modeller oriented range. Most noticeable in the coach department, where we now get rather more than just 'composite and brake end'. (Six LNER design non-gangwayed from Hornby; anyone predicting that half a dozen years ago could justifiably feel very smug now.) But very much as above regarding Bachmann's plans. Every year there is some sort of 'goodie' in terms of a small black loco, freight stock, mk1 coach - ordinary, everyday, bread and butter items - that are going to be useful either as they stand or as 'bashing' feedstock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimbus Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 It would be really good for Margate to study the Bachmann Branchline catalogue and understand how a full range of rolling stock all has the same type of coupling and seamlessly matches. A freight loco such as a 9F or a 7F could be matched to 20 or 30 different wagons to recreate a realistic looking freight train. What can Hornby hang on the back of an 8F, a 28xx or one of those beautiful new 72xx ? They don't even have a scale GWR/BR(WR) "Toad" for a start, let alone a scale 16T mineral wagon. Yup. I cast my mind back to 1964 when on a visit to H.A. Blunt's shop in Welwyn, between trains on the way home from school, I thought "Oh it's only a few pence. I'll have a copy of that Hornby-Dublo catalogue." It was only their last little fold-out brochure, but did it not make my eyes widen when I opened it on the Cravens DMU a few minutes later, and saw the range of stock available! To my Tri-ang accustomed eyes these all looked to be far closer to what I could see being shunted in the yard beside me. Spent the rest of the '60s tracking down HD locos and SD6 wagons, and I'm sure that's what turned me into a 'get it while you can' hoarder! (Trains, 45s, Rover car parts...) (IMHO) Margate still can't match the breadth of Hornby-Dublo of near 50 years ago! The Nim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45568 Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Yup. I cast my mind back to 1964 when on a visit to H.A. Blunt's shop in Welwyn, between trains on the way home from school, I thought "Oh it's only a few pence. I'll have a copy of that Hornby-Dublo catalogue." It was only their last little fold-out brochure, but did it not make my eyes widen when I opened it on the Cravens DMU a few minutes later, and saw the range of stock available! To my Tri-ang accustomed eyes these all looked to be far closer to what I could see being shunted in the yard beside me. Spent the rest of the '60s tracking down HD locos and SD6 wagons, and I'm sure that's what turned me into a 'get it while you can' hoarder! (Trains, 45s, Rover car parts...) (IMHO) Margate still can't match the breadth of Hornby-Dublo of near 50 years ago! The Nim Only problem was, when you saved up, and then convinced yer Dad it was a good buy, it wouldn't couple up to your Tri-ang Princess!!! I still have some SD6 wagons, beautiful bodies, underpinnings let them down, but the Banana van still looks good with a 1990's underframe,(thank you Mr. Parkside!). Cheers,Peter C. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Bedding Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 When do we start chewing the fat over Bachmann developments? Hello Larry, Below the radar perhaps, but I have the impression that the N-Class mogul may have benefitted from improved production quality control when the change to "DCC-ready" was introduced. I bought a special edition of this from Modelzone, fitted my choice of chip, and found that running was noticeably smoother and quieter, when compared with the earlier build standards when one had to hard wire the chip. It is now worthy of my best coaching stock! And completely OT, we can give Bachmann more good publicity the moment they do an ex-LSWR 0-6-0 to the same standards of their ex-SECR 0-6-0. PB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 It would be really good for Margate to study the Bachmann Branchline catalogue and understand how a full range of rolling stock all has the same type of coupling and seamlessly matches. A freight loco such as a 9F or a 7F could be matched to 20 or 30 different wagons to recreate a realistic looking freight train. What can Hornby hang on the back of an 8F, a 28xx or one of those beautiful new 72xx ? They don't even have a scale GWR/BR(WR) "Toad" for a start, let alone a scale 16T mineral wagon. I rest my case I hear and agree with what you are saying but what if Hornby acted upon your suggestion? There would be be page after page of complaints of duplication by Hornby. I agree the Hornby wagon tooling should have been melted down years ago,but as Bachmann already produce the rolling stock we all now and like, there is little point of creating a saturated market of too many wagons chasing too few customers. Dapol are no better with their ex Hornby Dublo range. I was correcting those bodies forty years ago. The new shunters truck will hopefully set a new standard for \Hornby, though I understand Bachmann had also been seen measuring up the same wagon. I have just been in Peter's Spares with plenty of Toads. Do we really need another one? The ex Airfix Toad was always a bit thin. The only way Hornby can capture that market is to produce a different toad - 16T for example. We all mix and match our rtr and I prefer it that way if the current variety is to be maintained I just buy what is appropriate regardless of whether it is out of a blue, red or kit box. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted February 11, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 11, 2013 I hear and agree with what you are saying but what if Hornby acted upon your suggestion? There would be be page after page of complaints of duplication by Hornby. I agree the Hornby wagon tooling should have been melted down years ago,but as Bachmann already produce the rolling stock we all now and like, there is little point of creating a saturated market of too many wagons chasing too few customers. Dapol are no better with their ex Hornby Dublo range. I was correcting those bodies forty years ago. The new shunters truck will hopefully set a new standard for \Hornby, though I understand Bachmann had also been seen measuring up the same wagon. I have just been in Peter's Spares with plenty of Toads. Do we really need another one? The ex Airfix Toad was always a bit thin. The only way Hornby can capture that market is to produce a different toad - 16T for example. We all mix and match our rtr and I prefer it that way if the current variety is to be maintained I just buy what is appropriate regardless of whether it is out of a blue, red or kit box. Mike Wiltshire I agree but do wonder if Hornby may in the not too distant future produce new versions of one or two iconic freight wagons. We're in the process of seeing new Mk1 coaches developed for the Railroad range and primarily for inclusion in Train Sets and Packs, so why not wagons as well made to the same standards/principles, i.e. greater accuracy but a limited number of separate fittings? Some of the existing wagon tooling must surely be of sufficient vintage to be worn out soon anyway? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 11, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 11, 2013 2012 saw Hornby start to modernise their steam era wagon fleet but they got things somewhat off the mark in choosing (arguably) the wrong prototypes and pricing them far too high. This year suggest they might have (almost) learnt the lesson of last year - generally a more sensible, albeit still not entirely clear, choice of prototypes and presumably using 'desgn clever' to keep down production costs and thus maintain similar profits at a lower RRP. If this succeeds they will probably move forwards and hopefully make further (but clearer) choices of prototypes which will guarantee them a market on two levels, i.e. both in trainsets and to 'modellers'. I think the true picture of their intentions for a potential range of wagons won't start to emerge until next year, and it could then start to get very interesting (I hope). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimbus Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Only problem was, when you saved up, and then convinced yer Dad it was a good buy, it wouldn't couple up to your Tri-ang Princess!!! I still have some SD6 wagons, beautiful bodies, underpinnings let them down, but the Banana van still looks good with a 1990's underframe,(thank you Mr. Parkside!). Cheers,Peter C. Ah, but then my Dad had loads of BA screws, washers and nuts, declared out of spec or date by the local aircraft factory (remember those?). I contributed spare Tri-ang couplings. Converted each end of a string of banana vans and a string of Blue Spot fish vans, so could couple the Tri-angs inside or at the end of the string. I do have regrets at taking a hacksaw to the coupling platform on my first Metro-Vic though, to get clearance for the Tri-ang hook pivot. (More memories! I bought that one Saturday, my birthday, by cycling along 'the line path' to Potters Bar. As I came out of Mr. Baldwin's shop, a train, probably a Buffet, roared over Darkes Lane bridge, double-headed by Baby Deltics. When I got home and put the telly on for Juke Box Jury, there was a guy on the panel with enormous side-burns, and a weird name - Engelbert Humperdinck!) The Nim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obi-Jiff Kenobi Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Has anyone here actually got a 2BIL yet? I would imagine not, due to the lack of feedback. ...the local aircraft factory (remember those?). I suspect for you it was de Havillands, or Handley Page at a pinch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 On display Modelzone @ Lakeside today . Not my cup of tea or area but looked very nice other than obvious " flat too the roof " vents . Which maybe prototypical no idea ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted February 11, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 11, 2013 As someone with a preference for the Bachmann products (excluding the class 25 and class 40 diesels !!!) I rarely feel the need to chew the fat. It would be really good for Margate to study the Bachmann Branchline catalogue and understand how a full range of rolling stock all has the same type of coupling and seamlessly matches. A freight loco such as a 9F or a 7F could be matched to 20 or 30 different wagons to recreate a realistic looking freight train. What can Hornby hang on the back of an 8F, a 28xx or one of those beautiful new 72xx ? They don't even have a scale GWR/BR(WR) "Toad" for a start, let alone a scale 16T mineral wagon. I rest my case I have a definite impression that Hornby aren't actually that interested in steam era goods stock. This is a great shame as, when they do get their act together, the results are very good. The GWR Horsebox shows what they CAN do but doesn't count as it is NPCCS. Their default livery appears to be Engineer's 'Dutch' grey and yellow and they only want to make wagons they can use it on! They massively overproduced the beautiful 'Shark' in that livery to the extent that they could be had for under a tenner but had to be nagged into producing just one run in the original BR black which disappeared in about a fortnight. John PS. I reckon I have thirty to forty Bachmann wagons for every Hornby one. If I am at all typical, that is a lot of business to be passing up. Edit for PS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted February 11, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 11, 2013 It would be really good for Margate to study the Bachmann Branchline catalogue and understand how a full range of rolling stock all has the same type of coupling and seamlessly matches. Apart from the Mk1's and some of the wagon NEM pocket heights............... And the eazi-mate's fitted to the BRA/BYA's and HTA's. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Western Scottish Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 And that IS the problem with the UK market in a Nutshell. Certainly there are many modellers who are happy to pay "continental prices for continental quality", but it would seem there are not enough of such to drive the market (certainly Hornby seems to have come to that conclusion and gone "down market"). Observing from afar, I've concluded that this UK market reluctance to "pay a fair price for a quality product" has seriously hindered the development of British Railway modelling. It's interesting to note that many of the recent advancements in our hobby (the development of DCC instead of analogue controllers, static grass & applicator instead of dyed teddy bear fur, etc) has come from "Johnny foreigner". I've also frequently noted posts along the lines of "that Hornmann McChuff 2-4-2 is far too expensive at £120, but if it were £60 I'd buy 10...)! So why not pay for a better product and only buy 5? In all, I think that the problem many of us will be confronting is not that Hornby hasn't sussed out the UK market, but that with "design clever" Horby has sussed out the UK market just too well... As an old Prof of mine said "high quality, large numbers, low price - you can only have two out of three" I think you miss the point it's more whether I'll buy one or none rather than 10 or 5. Post £100 takes it past the discretionary spend limit I've imposed on myself Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Maybe the person wo won't buy one for £120 but will buy 10 for £60 each only really wants the chassis and isn't too fussed about separately-fitted handrails and intricate lining.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 I hear and agree with what you are saying but what if Hornby acted upon your suggestion? There would be be page after page of complaints of duplication by Hornby. I agree the Hornby wagon tooling should have been melted down years ago,but as Bachmann already produce the rolling stock we all now and like, there is little point of creating a saturated market of too many wagons chasing too few customers. Dapol are no better with their ex Hornby Dublo range. I was correcting those bodies forty years ago. The new shunters truck will hopefully set a new standard for \Hornby, though I understand Bachmann had also been seen measuring up the same wagon. I have just been in Peter's Spares with plenty of Toads. Do we really need another one? The ex Airfix Toad was always a bit thin. The only way Hornby can capture that market is to produce a different toad - 16T for example. We all mix and match our rtr and I prefer it that way if the current variety is to be maintained I just buy what is appropriate regardless of whether it is out of a blue, red or kit box. Mike Wiltshire Sorry Mike, I have to disagree. There is no real need for duplication of wagons but Hornby did it and produced (from all accounts) a first rate BR std 20T brakevan. Trouble is, up to yet it has only been produced in TOPS liveries so is no use to the (alleged) majority of the transition era modelling market. I'd almost certainly have at least a couple of bauxite examples and probably a BR grey one too, but I believe Hornby are missing a massive trick there. As I said no need for duplicates as there are hundreds of designs which Hornby could retail for the transition modeller - hoppers, tanks, steel carriers, the list goes on. Take a look at this piccie ; http://s0.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/02/15/27/2152778_6cda8cd8.jpg A train of iron ore behind a Hornby 8F with probably a Hornby 20T van at the back too. I agree but do wonder if Hornby may in the not too distant future produce new versions of one or two iconic freight wagons. We're in the process of seeing new Mk1 coaches developed for the Railroad range and primarily for inclusion in Train Sets and Packs, so why not wagons as well made to the same standards/principles, i.e. greater accuracy but a limited number of separate fittings? Some of the existing wagon tooling must surely be of sufficient vintage to be worn out soon anyway? Quite I have a definite impression that Hornby aren't actually that interested in steam era goods stock. This is a great shame as, when they do get their act together, the results are very good. The GWR Horsebox shows what they CAN do but doesn't count as it is NPCCS. Their default livery appears to be Engineer's 'Dutch' grey and yellow and they only want to make wagons they can use it on! They massively overproduced the beautiful 'Shark' in that livery to the extent that they could be had for under a tenner but had to be nagged into producing just one run in the original BR black which disappeared in about a fortnight. John PS. I reckon I have thirty to forty Bachmann wagons for every Hornby one. If I am at all typical, that is a lot of business to be passing up. Edit for PS Totally agree with the comment of yours I highlighted. I have an olive green shark, and would have preferred a BR black one when I bought it a couple of years ago, but as I said earlier, Hornby don't seem to want to capitalise on (again alleged) the most popular modelling era. I must say Hornby really jumped into the abyss with the Rudd, Tope, Clam programme and I wonder just how well they sold, compared to maybe how well a new moulding 21T hopper would sell - only needing the body and chutes for the existing Tope chassis !!!! As you say John, I have less than ten Hornby wagons, simply because they don't do what I, a transition modeller need for my stock boxes. I'll ask the question again - how many GW shunter trucks would you buy, compared to bogie bolster "E"s, or Anchor mount tanks, or Ironstone hoppers ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Sorry Mike, I have to disagree. There is no real need for duplication of wagons but Hornby did it and produced (from all accounts) a first rate BR std 20T brakevan. Trouble is, up to yet it has only been produced in TOPS liveries so is no use to the (alleged) majority of the transition era modelling market. Erm... Maybe I'm missing a trick here but I've got a few of these waiting to go under the scalpel. http://www.ehattons.com/35959/Hornby_R6508_20_Ton_Brake_Van_in_BR_Bauxite_/StockDetail.aspx Seems like they sold out very fast. I'd have thought Hornby would have had a re-run pretty quickly. there was also the Olive green version with external vac pipe. Porcy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 There is still nobody doing single bolster wagons and yet these were very common wagons during the steam era. If you want one then you have to build your own from a kit...and not many kits available either ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Erm... Maybe I'm missing a trick here but I've got a few of these waiting to go under the scalpel. http://www.ehattons.com/35959/Hornby_R6508_20_Ton_Brake_Van_in_BR_Bauxite_/StockDetail.aspx Seems like they sold out very fast. I'd have thought Hornby would have had a re-run pretty quickly. there was also the Olive green version with external vac pipe. Porcy Thanks Porcy. I stand corrected, but how limited a run was that ? Obviously sold like hot cakes and I rest my case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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