Dapol Class 121 and 122 in OO gauge

[The Johnster]

Nice try The Johnster, but no flash gun or flash option was used in my photos above, it was just an softly illuminated scene. The story of DMU liveries is far more complicated than you say. It started with 1954 Derby Lightweights in Steam Loco Green (Brunswick), the Derby high density sets (116) appeared in 1957 in a pale malachite/emu green, two years later the same units were being repainted in a darker shade known as "Mid-Brunswick Green"(?), meanwhile Gloucester Cross-Country sets were appearing in a much lighter shade than their Swindon counterparts. Finally a new shade was introduced for late builds and repaints, being a more oily olive green which was supposedly more hard wearing. With so many different builders, there will be even more variations for new stock than this, but then the other complication is weathering. In most cases, greens will age and take on a bluey hue, this is caused by the sun burning off the yellow pigment in the paint, we all know from school, that blue plus yellow, makes green.

      I suggest Chris looks at the colour photograph in "Heyday Of The DMUs" (Ian Allan) on page 40, which shows a newly delivered (from Gloucester RCW) W55000 at Swindon in May 1958, it's very dark. Have a look too at page 60, which shows the first two shades used on Class 116. I shall upload more of my images tomorrow.

                                                           Cheers, Brian.

 

My apologies for accusing you of using a flash; I stand corrected!  You are clearly aware of the variety of greens around on dmus at this period, and the different ways they faded and weathered and advice from me is superfluous.  Dibber is an acknowledged, arguably the, authority in this field, and correctly points out that 'a substantial degree of interpretation,' is needed, and I would point out that even accurate modern digital photography is subject to monitor settings.  It is very difficult to be objectively right in this matter, and very easy to be subjectively so.  As I say it looks fine to me from your photo.

 

Many years ago I cut and shut a 116 out of 5 coaches of Lima 117, and painted it in the nearest colour to 'memory swatch' from my recollection of the units introduced in the Cardiff Valleys in 1958; my set is of the '4 marker light' version with whiskers, and I cannot now remember what the actual colour I painted in was.  Acrylics were new on the market then and it was the first stock I used them for, so definitely not a railway colour, but was intended to reproduce 'mid brunswick green'.  I am happy with it, which is what matters most, and it has in it's time received favourable comment at exhibitions.

[The Johnster]

There are certainly significant differences between the Brian Kirby Lima and Dapol models, and I would tend to the view, unless corrected, that Brian's is the more correct one as far as lining and whiskers goes; the Dapol looks a bit gaudy in comparison.  The Lima also sits noticeably higher, and while that may be down to the flanges, it seems to be higher off it's bogies to my view as well, and IMHO, no more than that, the Dapol version probably has the edge in this respect.  It shouldn't matter much unless you are running the two coupled together, but might have implications for those who want to run their Dapol bubbles with Lima 117 or Lima derived bubbles.  It is probably within the range that the body settled when loaded with a few fat passengers anyway!

Edited July 14, 2017 by The Johnster

[dj_crisp]

Thats a very interesting comparison and also shows that the Lima example stands up very well against Dapols. Did you alter the roof ribs/welds on the lima version as they look spot on whereas Dapols look a little heavy to me?

 

Some of the details on Dapol's underframe look fantastic... not sure about the straight exhaust though. I wonder if the early examples were straight?

 

Will

[dibber25]

Replies, various (557/8/9 in particular) : 

I'm in the process of preparing a magazine article about the tweaks I've done to mine.

The headcode frame unclips. There's even a spare pair so you can change them if you wish, without taking the body off. All the Model Rail review pictures were taken at the same time and the problem with the headcode fit was not noticed until it was too late to do anything about it. That's why I mentioned it in the +/- section. The review sample was a loaned pre-production sample. The model which I've tweaked is my own.

Once you've added the decals, it may be worth a spot of glue fixing the frame in place, otherwise you could be searching your layout for it. 

I've put the headcode decals face down on the inside of the glazing. 

Getting the cabs out is not so easy. The contacts on the cab rear are soldered to the interior light strip. You could unsolder them. However, I unscrewed the interior light strip (two small crosshead screws) and unclipped the cab from the side glazing, removing the cab interiors and light strip as a single unit. Unclipping the cabs is not particularly easy and nor is getting them back in, but it's well worth the effort.

Passengers: If you cut seated 'HO' passengers off at knee level, they may look to be sitting too high. It may be necessary to file more off their bums or even to cut them off at waist level. 

Drivers: You'll need to remove the driver's seat, cut off the pedestal and refit the seat direct to the 'floor'. You should then get away with cutting the figure off below the knees.

My view was that the top lining was narrower than the waist lining, however examination of photographs showed that the lining on the 121 was narrower at the top, but that on the Gloucester cars appeared to be the same width above and below. It was agreed that attempting to add the black outline was not a good idea as the real lines were so narrow that they hardly noticed, even on ex-works cars.

Worth noting that W55034 as restored to green livery by Chiltern has 'faux gold' (pale brownish) lining, not cream, and its yellow panel is somewhat larger than the original. (CJL)

 

Edited July 14, 2017 by dibber25

[Dunsignalling]

I think its a common problem.

The model rail magazine review one of the reasons it was marked down was the headcode being loose. every photograph in the magazine shows it not fitting correctly.

Not sure why it would not have been  just refitted if it was a simple thing to do?

Maybe it only fits tightly once a headcode is inserted behind it?

 

John

[dibber25]

Maybe it only fits tightly once a headcode is inserted behind it?

 

John

No, the headcode is just a decal. The frame remains a loose fit. There are spares provided in the pack - to replace lost ones or to enable changes of headcode, I'm not sure which. (CJL)

[Tony_S]

Replies, various (557/8/9 in particular) : 

I'm in the process of preparing a magazine article about the tweaks I've done to mine.

The headcode frame unclips. There's even a spare pair so you can change them if you wish, without taking the body off. All the Model Rail review pictures were taken at the same time and the problem with the headcode fit was not noticed until it was too late to do anything about it. That's why I mentioned it in the +/- section. The review sample was a loaned pre-production sample. The model which I've tweaked is my own.

Once you've added the decals, it may be worth a spot of glue fixing the frame in place, otherwise you could be searching your layout for it. 

I've put the headcode decals face down on the inside of the glazing. 

Getting the cabs out is not so easy. The contacts on the cab rear are soldered to the interior light strip. You could unsolder them. However, I unscrewed the interior light strip (two small crosshead screws) and unclipped the cab from the side glazing, removing the cab interiors and light strip as a single unit. Unclipping the cabs is not particularly easy and nor is getting them back in, but it's well worth the effort.

Passengers: If you cut seated 'HO' passengers off at knee level, they may look to be sitting too high. It may be necessary to file more off their bums or even to cut them off at waist level. 

Drivers: You'll need to remove the driver's seat, cut off the pedestal and refit the seat direct to the 'floor'. You should then get away with cutting the figure off below the knees.

My view was that the top lining was narrower than the waist lining, however examination of photographs showed that the lining on the 121 was narrower at the top, but that on the Gloucester cars appeared to be the same width above and below. It was agreed that attempting to add the black outline was not a good idea as the real lines were so narrow that they hardly noticed, even on ex-works cars.

Worth noting that W55034 as restored to green livery by Chiltern has 'faux gold' (pale brownish) lining, not cream, and its yellow panel is somewhat larger than the original. (CJL)

Thank you for your very comprehensive explanation. I am glad I waited instead of tugging at the cab units! Also for the advice about bum filing.

[cctransuk]

Here are some pics of one of my old Lima repaints, next to the bright young thing. The first four images are under artificial light.

 

20170713_200643.jpg

20170713_200802.jpg

20170713_201028.jpg

20170713_201427.jpg

 

This photo was taken outside in broad daylight, but not direct sunshine. Perhaps my repaint is wrong, my lining could have been thicker? Sometimes waistband lining was thicker than the upper lining, more variations.

 

20170713_175111.jpg

 

Lastly for completeness, a quick view of the underneath of the Lima job, original wheels turned, no traction tyres and converted to 8 - wheel pick-up, which makes it far more reliable than before. It should give many more years service. The late Lima/Limby bubble car is still a worthy model, it just needs quite a bit of work on it, now the hard work has been done by Dapol.

                                                            Cheers, Brian.

 

Looking at these excellent photos, my reactions are :-

 

i] the shade of green used would probably be acceptable - it's not dissimilar to my recollection of the prototype;

 

ii] the smaller lettering doesn't look too bad, as far as it can be discerned in the images;

 

iii] the numbers appear to be too heavy, and I'm not to sure that the correct version of Gill Sans has been used;

 

iv] the BR roundel is oversized.

 

All of the above seem to be par for the course with Dapol, and would be capable of correction without a complete respray, but :-

 

v] the lining and Vs are way too heavy - I doubt that these could be removed to enable replacement with something thinner.

 

I fail to understand why Dapol are so slap-happy when it comes to liveries - I am sure that it is possible to specify the exact shade of paint to be used rather than to have to choose a 'nearly right' colour from a swatch.

 

I know that it is possible to get lettering spot-on, as I've supplied my transfer artwork to RTR companies, so that the lettering on RTR models matches my transfers - which match the prototype.

 

Miss Prism (above) was able to specify the prototype lining size and layout - a quick enquiry here would have ensured that the lining on Dapol's model matched the prototype.

 

All-in-all, a nice model at a not inconsiderable price that will, nevertheless, require me to strip and repaint / reline / reletter before it matches the prototype. Why on earth should I need to do this when it would be so easy to have it right in the first place?

 

I appreciate that CJL cannot divulge the content of the interchanges between himself and Dapol concerning this model but, whatever they were, they have failed to produce an accurately-finished model.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[dibber25]

Looking at these excellent photos, my reactions are :-

 

i] the shade of green used would probably be acceptable - it's not dissimilar to my recollection of the prototype;

 

ii] the smaller lettering doesn't look too bad, as far as it can be discerned in the images;

 

iii] the numbers appear to be too heavy, and I'm not to sure that the correct version of Gill Sans has been used;

 

iv] the BR roundel is oversized.

 

All of the above seem to be par for the course with Dapol, and would be capable of correction without a complete respray, but :-

 

v] the lining and Vs are way too heavy - I doubt that these could be removed to enable replacement with something thinner.

 

I fail to understand why Dapol are so slap-happy when it comes to liveries - I am sure that it is possible to specify the exact shade of paint to be used rather than to have to choose a 'nearly right' colour from a swatch.

 

I know that it is possible to get lettering spot-on, as I've supplied my transfer artwork to RTR companies, so that the lettering on RTR models matches my transfers - which match the prototype.

 

Miss Prism (above) was able to specify the prototype lining size and layout - a quick enquiry here would have ensured that the lining on Dapol's model matched the prototype.

 

All-in-all, a nice model at a not inconsiderable price that will, nevertheless, require me to strip and repaint / reline / reletter before it matches the prototype. Why on earth should I need to do this when it would be so easy to have it right in the first place?

 

I appreciate that CJL cannot divulge the content of the interchanges between himself and Dapol concerning this model but, whatever they were, they have failed to produce an accurately-finished model.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

I have pretty much disclosed our discussions. I was involved only in the choice of colour from what was available. It's no use specifying colours which the factory doesn't have or you introduce another interpretation, and this time one over which you have no control. I did question the thickness of the lining but I'm more familiar with 121s and I was shown pictures which suggest that the 121s had narrower top lining and that the 122s had the same width top and bottom. We didn't discuss fonts or size of logos etc. Overall, I'm very happy with the Dapol model and it is streets ahead of my Lima conversion (which was a competition winner in its day) in most respects - especially as it runs like a Swiss watch. (CJL)

[amwells]

122-lining.gif

 

(distances above and below the window varied)

Originally posted on page 1 of this thread in 2012!

[Tony_S]

Thanks to CJL going quite well so far!

 

Tony

[The Johnster]

I remember one or two drivers I'd have happily cut off at the knees...

 

Looking at Tony S's stripped down model, I'd say that the seats are too shiny and need a coat of matt to tone them down, the floor (much too high to conceal the gubbins of course) needs a coat of matt dark grey, and the headrests need picking out in the same colour; Brian Kirby has done this and it looks very effective.  But it's a nice model, and, although low on my shopping list, I will probably buy one eventually, more likely in 121 form but if one of these turns up cut price in the right livery...  I agree that the black edging to the yellow lining is not worth the bother in 4mm, it was barely visible on the real thing, especially against the darker green livery!

 

If the interior trim was the same as the Valleys 116s, which of course it may well not have been, it was a sort of lime green formica with flecks or short wavy lines in it, and my Lima-based 116 has this in the nearest colour I could find in acrylics back in the day, which was obtained from Games Workshop and called 'decayed flesh'.  The wooden interior window frames were painted or varnished dark brown; again, this is for 116s in South Wales and should not be taken as confirmed fact for 121s or other units.  

[Brian Kirby]

My apologies for accusing you of using a flash; I stand corrected!  

 

No need to apologize The Johnster, it takes a lot more than that to annoy me, i'm all for a lively debate. The livery on the Class 122 is not a disaster, most modellers will be delighted with it, the rest of us can just amend it to the way we want it. The colour isn't outrageously far out, when choosing, or even mixing-up, my own paint shades, I like to compare how the model looks in broad daylight, and then later indoors in artificial light. I recall painting a Kitmaster Blue Pullman, the Railmatch shade just didn't look right to me, so I mixed my own, knowing that it couldn't be any darker than the darkest acceptable indoors, or lighter than the lightest acceptable outdoors, the answer was midway between the two extremes. Carter's Livery Register does remind us of the old rule of making shades slightly lighter for models, than the real thing, since less light falls on a model.

I'm glad we both like Class 116s, a much under-modelled class, Dapol and soon Bachmann will have a stepping-stone with their bubble cars to produce a Derby 3-car, and possibly a Gloucester Cross-Country 3-car? I have been converting some more Limas to 116 (the eagle-eyed may have spotted odd cars in the background of the pics above), but blowing my own trumpet, here's a link to one I made earlier (post 148).    BK 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/56401-swindon-cross-country-dmus/page-6

Edited July 14, 2017 by Brian Kirby

[The Johnster]

You have the touch, Brian, some nice looking sets there.  My 116 is slightly different, being the later batch of all 2nd class '4 marker lights and no 2 character headcode' version (lazy modelling, saved me the trouble of fabricating a headcode box), and you can spot the joins if you look hard enough (trouble is I know where they are, and they are blindingly obvious to me!).  I used PC, as they were then, transfers for the whiskers and didn't line the set; I think the whiskers are a bit too yellow.  Perhaps I should line it; that might draw my attention away from the joins!

 

119s and 120s were both common at Cardiff from introduction until the mid 70s, but 2 car sets were slightly rarer, being allocated to Swansea or Shrewsbruy for the Central Wales line which had unfenced mountain stretches which required these 'power twins' to be fitted with spotlights, as were 37s for the route.  These were, IIRC, retrofitted Lucas 12 volt car spotlights designed for rallying, and pretty powerful; I once rode in the cab of one through the Severn Tunnel, the only time I ever saw it properly!  

 

Rarer still, but not unknown, were the later 120s with 4-character headcode panels, which generally worked in the West Country.  There wasn't a lot of go in them, not by the 70s anyway, 119s or 120s, and the aluminium bodied 101s which replaced them seemed much more lively, but they were comfortable and nicely fitted out, and quiet inside, especially the trailers.  The 120s worked with bubble cars, 122s IIRC, for a better power/weight ration on the 'Marches Line' Cardiff-Crewe trains in the early 70s, the bubble locked out of use but much favoured by the traincrews returning home that were a significant part of this route's traffic; we would make up our own seating arrangements, with beds and upturned cushions for playing cards on.  These 4-car trains still had trouble keeping time, and some bright spark decided to replace them with 25s and 6 mk1s, which had no hope; the load was eventually reduced to 4 and a 33, which zipped along nicely...

Edited July 14, 2017 by The Johnster

[chrisf]

You have the touch, Brian, some nice looking sets there.  My 116 is slightly different, being the later batch of all 2nd class '4 marker lights and no 2 character headcode' version, and you can spot the joins if you look hard enough (trouble is I know where they are, and they are blindingly obvious to me!).

 

Later batch?  Those with 4 marker lights and no headcode panels were the first to be delivered.  Later they were renumbered in connection with TOPS, which caused at least one journalist possibly quite a new one at the time!] to assume that the final batch was the first.

 

Chris

[Tony_S]

I remember one or two drivers I'd have happily cut off at the knees...

 

Looking at Tony S's stripped down model, I'd say that the seats are too shiny and need a coat of matt to tone them down, the floor (much too high to conceal the gubbins of course) needs a coat of matt dark grey, and the headrests need picking out in the same colour; Brian Kirby has done this and it looks very effective.  But it's a nice model, and, although low on my shopping list, I will probably buy one eventually, more likely in 121 form but if one of these turns up cut price in the right livery...  I agree that the black edging to the yellow lining is not worth the bother in 4mm, it was barely visible on the real thing, especially against the darker green livery!

 

If the interior trim was the same as the Valleys 116s, which of course it may well not have been, it was a sort of lime green formica with flecks or short wavy lines in it, and my Lima-based 116 has this in the nearest colour I could find in acrylics back in the day, which was obtained from Games Workshop and called 'decayed flesh'.  The wooden interior window frames were painted or varnished dark brown; again, this is for 116s in South Wales and should not be taken as confirmed fact for 121s or other units.

 

The seats do look a bit like the red shiny vinyl upholstery we had in our first car, a 1973 Vauxhall Chevette. I do intend to tone them down a bit and add the suggested grey for the headrests and do something the floor. They are relatively easy compared to pulling out the cabs and lighting I suspect.

Just in case anyone is interested the leaflet included with the model states that for full dcc control of all lighting functions a five function decoder is required. I had some Bachmann 4 function but thought why not try a 5 function decoder. I have fitted a Lenz Silver+ 21 pin decoder. Quite a few retailers seem to indicate this has 4 functions but the Lenz manual states 5. I will see what happens when I fit the body back on. The head and tail lights certainly work when the chassis was trundling up and down my dcc test track.

Tony

[meatloaf]

Has anybody heard the sound version of the 122 available from Hattons. Is it worth the £260 price tag?

 

Hattons use olivias for there sound fitted options. olivias use first gen DMU sounds, so if you google 101/105/108 olivias sound that's what it will likely sound like.

 

I'm going to use the Bachmann 101 sound for mine.

[Roy Langridge]

The seats do look a bit like the red shiny vinyl upholstery we had in our first car, a 1973 Vauxhall Chevette. I do intend to tone them down a bit and add the suggested grey for the headrests and do something the floor. They are relatively easy compared to pulling out the cabs and lighting I suspect.

Just in case anyone is interested the leaflet included with the model states that for full dcc control of all lighting functions a five function decoder is required. I had some Bachmann 4 function but thought why not try a 5 function decoder. I have fitted a Lenz Silver+ 21 pin decoder. Quite a few retailers seem to indicate this has 4 functions but the Lenz manual states 5. I will see what happens when I fit the body back on. The head and tail lights certainly work when the chassis was trundling up and down my dcc test track.

Tony

Have they done the same as with the Class 68 and allowed for the logic outputs on an ESU chip to drive the lights?

 

Roy

[Tony_S]

Have they done the same as with the Class 68 and allowed for the logic outputs on an ESU chip to drive the lights?

Roy

It doesn't mention anything about logic level outputs on the decoder fitting instructions. All the 5 function outputs on the Lenz decoder seem to be identical. We shall see! Edited July 14, 2017 by Tony_S

[Brian Kirby]

Thanks The Johnster, not really the place to discuss on this 122 thread, but I will briefly mention that my first 116 was a second batch unit, waiting in the wings are a first batch second-class only 116 like your's, a second batch in lined green and a blue set transferred to ER, i'm just finishing the interiors. I also have a half-built final batch headcode Class 120, which as you say would always be associated with The West Country, however I discovered that they started life at Tyseley, but were quickly retrieved by WR when LMR took over c.1963.

     Back to the bubblecars, I wonder if Dapol will consider trailers to go with them, although the had a shorter life and appeared in far fewer liveries, would they achieve enough sales? Otherwise maybe we should all be busy converting Lima's like RMwebber Rembro?

Incidentally, if anyone noticed the Treherbert and Tondu blinds on my old Lima, this will be for my Rhondda Tunnel layout (I wish)! Tondu is not pronounced like "fondue", it's "Tonn-dee" (my mam came from the next valley see).   BK

[The Johnster]

Later batch?  Those with 4 marker lights and no headcode panels were the first to be delivered.  Later they were renumbered in connection with TOPS, which caused at least one journalist possibly quite a new one at the time!] to assume that the final batch was the first.

 

Chris

 

Good grief!  Shows the perils of making assumptions based on your own limited experience.  As the first sets i remember being used in South Wales on the regular interval Valleys timetable in 1958 had 2-character headcode boxes and a marker light each side of them, or the ones I saw did, I assumed that these were the first built.  I had recently had, as a birthday pressie, a Triang 2-car SR emu with an illuminated headcode (I was 6) and was fascinated by these headcode boxes,  what 'B2' or whatever meant, and was keen to see one lit at night like on my emu; as I lived near the Rhymney main line out of Cardiff i didn't have to wait long.  So, in my child's mind, the headcode boxes came first and the 4 marker light version later, an impression re-inforced in my spotting days a few years later by their having a 'later' number series,  I have been labouring under this misconception, entirely of my own making of course, for nearly 60 years.  I feel much happier now about my set being unlined, and I might get away with no whiskers on it as well, as those first sets form 1958 had none.  Thank you for putting me right on this, Chris!

 

The 116s were built with plain coach ends within the sets, without corridor connections, which were fitted to the South Wales sets around 1964 as staff were removed from many stations and they became unstaffed; tickets were henceforward sold on the train by the guard.  The internal compartment dividers which divided first and second class accommodation, and smoking and non smoking saloons, were replaced at the same time; the originals had 3 identical rectangular windows with rounded corners and wooden frames equally spaced across the coach, so you could see into the next compartment, but there were no doors; the replacements were the type still fitted, a deeper and bigger window each side of a wooden door for the guard to get through to sell tickets.  The corridor connections seemed to co-incide with the sets being repainted in the darker green lined livery and receiving small yellow warning panels instead of the whiskers, and this must have been the case for many of them, but I could not state definitively that all were so treated, just that I cannot remember a corridor connected set in any other than dark lined green with syp. OTOH, I am fairly certain that some sets ran in the darker livery without corridor connections, presumably acquiring it before 1964.  As I say the livery situation was, to say the least, fluid in the early 60s and may have differed from area to area.  The broadly similar Marylebone suburban sets retained their plain ends and internal compartment dividers for much longer., as I believe the Lea Valley 116s did.  I am not certain what the implications of this for 121s or 122s are, but it may be that their compartment dividers did not originally have doors either, in which case the Dapol may be wrong for a very early example.

Edited July 14, 2017 by The Johnster

[Ian Hargrave]

IIRC,the Birmingham WR division took delivery of the first dmu's before they arrived on Valleys lines in 1958.I recall that these were without head code boxes and were a lighter shade of green.The upholstery was different as well.

[The Johnster]

Thanks The Johnster, not really the place to discuss on this 122 thread, but I will briefly mention that my first 116 was a second batch unit, waiting in the wings are a first batch second-class only 116 like your's, a second batch in lined green and a blue set transferred to ER, i'm just finishing the interiors. I also have a half-built final batch headcode Class 120, which as you say would always be associated with The West Country, however I discovered that they started life at Tyseley, but were quickly retrieved by WR when LMR took over c.1963.

     Back to the bubblecars, I wonder if Dapol will consider trailers to go with them, although the had a shorter life and appeared in far fewer liveries, would they achieve enough sales? Otherwise maybe we should all be busy converting Lima's like RMwebber Rembro?

Incidentally, if anyone noticed the Treherbert and Tondu blinds on my old Lima, this will be for my Rhondda Tunnel layout (I wish)! Tondu is not pronounced like "fondue", it's "Tonn-dee" (my mam came from the next valley see).   BK

 

Quite right; 'u' has a 'ee' sound in Welsh, and I sometimes forget that our English brethren may not appreciated this. 'Du' is Welsh for black, and 'Ton' is one of several words for 'place, so Tondu = 'Black Place'.

[The Johnster]

IIRC,the Birmingham WR division took delivery of the first dmu's before they arrived on Valleys lines in 1958.I recall that these were without head code boxes and were a lighter shade of green.The upholstery was different as well.

 

See 578 for my belated realisation of this!  IIRC the Valleys sets as introduced had grey and red patterned moquette upholstery, represented on my model by grey, and red leather (or vinyl?) headrests, effectively a reversal of the scheme.

[chrisf]

Can I "clarify" what I understand to be the 116 allocations?  Most of the first batch went to Tyseley [50050-78, 59000-38, 50092-120], with 50079-81, 59029-31, 50121-3 going to Cardiff.  50082-91, 50132-41, 50124-33 went to Newport and were maintained at Canton - these were the ones with the second class only trailers.  The second batch [50818-70, 593276-76, 50871-923] was intended for Cardiff in its entirety but, as Ian has said above, some spent time working out of Tyseley.  The third batch [51128-40, 59438-48, 51141-53] was ordered for Bristol.

 

If only it was all that simple.  It cannot have been long before second class trailers from the Newport sets were swapped with composite trailers from the second and third batches and the Tyseley sets were reported re-formed not long after introduction.  (In case anyone wonders what all this guff is doing on the 121/122 thread, there were reports of four car sets around Birmingham comprising two cars from a 116 set, a 122 power car and 122 driving trailer!).  Official records of allocations may well not have been kept at first: the earliest that I have found date from 1962.  Then there was borrowing.  Apart from the frequent presence of South Wales sets on Tyseley jobs, the Paddington emergency of November 1959 led to sets from Tyseley and Cathays being deployed on London suburban work until the 117s arrived.  Some of the sets borrowed from Cardiff were returned to Tyseley afterwards.  Later, when lines were closed and service levels reduced, sets were redeployed and from 1962 some 116s were to be found in the West of England.  One day someone will document all this but don't look at me!

 

Chris