Hornby P2

[melmerby]

Like it

 

That's definitely a "what if"

 

Take Edward Thompson out of the equation...........

Mind you I wonder what Arthur Peppercorn would have made of it, maybe still a 2-8-2 but with three sets of Walschaerts gear?

 

Keith

[bigwordsmith]

I suspect this is what Mr. Peppercorn might have turned out...

 

Although perhaps the V2 tender might not have given adequate coal supplies!

[mikesndbs]

I suspect this is what Mr. Peppercorn might have turned out...

P2 V2.jpg

 

Although perhaps the V2 tender might not have given adequate coal supplies!

 

How did you do that!!!

[melmerby]

I suspect this is what Mr. Peppercorn might have turned out...

P2 V2.jpg

 

Although perhaps the V2 tender might not have given adequate coal supplies!

That's pure Gresley though,

 

Keith

[melmerby]

A slightly modified P2

As the new build will, I assume, run in BR green at some time how about 60507 Prince Of Wales? (Yes I know there is a number clash with the A2 Highland Chieftain!)

 

Keith

[melmerby]

P2 looks better in BR Green I think, any ideas on what class the extended v2 would have been.

 

Either way though both locos look fantastic.

Next in the list would be P3 I guess

 

Keith

[bigwordsmith]

The P2V2 as I call it was actually the work of Matthew Cousins who is an expert at photo manipulation.

 

He has some very interesting ideas as you can see at his link...http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/album/1412-alternative-design-history/

[lee74clarke]

A slightly modified P2

That's come up well. Would be nice if you had time to give some instructions as to how you went about it.

Preparing the Horny paint job, BR green used, lining used, etc

I have got a Railroad model awaiting such a makeover, would be great to have some pointers

Thanks, Lee

[H2Eric]

Hello Lee

 

Thanks for the positive feedback and to Dan and Keith also.

When the P2 first came out I had the idea of a 'what if' and decided to go down the BR Brunswick green path although others on the forum beat me to it.

I started with a common or garden (railroad) version.

I replaced the tender with a corridor type from a Hornby A4. Theory being that these locomotives should perhaps have been used on the non-stop London - Edinburgh trains. However, the drawbar on the Hornby A4 is attached to the loco and that on the P2 is attached to the tender. Fortunately the drawbar pin on the P2 is a 2mm screw so a replacement was relatively easy to make from a strip of brass, although not to the same length as either from the A4 or the original P2. It took several attempts to get the spacing correct.

I then removed the moulded on handrails from the cab sides. I suspect that if using a scapel to do this the chances of taking a gouge out of the cab side is fairly high so I used a small fine file and some premium sanding sticks, which I think came from Eileen's Emporium. The sanding sticks also removed the cab side numbers as well in the process, bonus!

I also removed the beading from around the rear of the cab sides and then partly filled in the cut out to match that on the A4 tender. I believe this was an early modification on the original (12 inches to the foot scale) P2 to combat drafts that the crews complained of. I used some 40 thou / 1mm thick plasticard, which I glued in place. I made these fillets oversize so that I could file to shape once the glue had set. I used good old Humbrol model filler to fill any slight gap followed by much smoothing with a fine sanding stick. This later process took several attempts to get an acceptable finish with no obvious join.

The next task was to drill the holes for the handrail knobs and attach the wire (Alan Gibson products - small handrail knobs and 0.45mm wire.).

I then turned my attention to the front end. That moulded on smoke box dart just had to go and was replaced by a turned brass item.

I was however tempted to leave the moulded on hand rail alone as its not easy to get at, but after much thought it just had to go. I used a scapel initially to remove as much as I dare and then finished off with a sanding stick whittled down to get into the confined space. The moulded on lamp bracket got the same treatment as well. Small handrail knobs and wire were duly applied.

I made a replacement lamp bracket out of a piece of 1mm diameter copper wire, hammered at one end to flatten it and then bent and filed to shape. Drill hole in smoke box and attach with glue. Sounds simple, but the lamp bracket is very tiny and when attempting to fix in place with tweezers it duly pinged across the room never to be seen again. I think I got it in place on the third attempt.

You could if you so wish replace the plastic whistle with a turned brass item, but I chose to leave the original in place.

That concludes the modifications

Next job was a full repaint. Not processing an airbrush and not wishing to spoil the plot with a brush I called the professional in. Parcel up the model and send off to Steve Johnson (Grimy Times) for a full repaint including the tender in BR Brunswick green complete with lining, etched nameplates, works plates and BR late crest. Although the tender was in excellent condition (an ebay find) I had it repainted in order to get an exact colour match with the engine. Steve also applied the weathering.

 

Cheers

Eric

Edited April 6, 2015 by H2Eric

[lee74clarke]

Hello Lee

 

Thanks for the positive feedback and to Dan and Keith also.

When the P2 first came out I had the idea of a 'what if' and decided to go down the BR Brunswick green path although others on the forum beat me to it.

I started with a common or garden (railroad) version.

I replaced the tender with a corridor type from a Hornby A4. Theory being that these locomotives should perhaps have been used on the non-stop London - Edinburgh trains. However, the drawbar on the Hornby A4 is attached to the loco and that on the P2 is attached to the tender. Fortunately the drawbar pin on the P2 is a 2mm screw so a replacement was relatively easy to make from a strip of brass, although not to the same length as either from the A4 or the original P2. It took several attempts to get the spacing correct.

I then removed the moulded on handrails from the cab sides. I suspect that if using a scapel to do this the chances of taking a gouge out of the cab side is fairly high so I used a small fine file and some premium sanding sticks, which I think came from Eilean's Emporium. The sanding sticks also removed the cab side numbers as well in the process, bonus!

I also removed the beading from around the rear of the cab sides and then partly filled in the cut out to match that on the A4 tender. I believe this was an early modification on the original (12 inches to the foot scale) P2 to combat drafts that the crews complained of. I used some 40 thou / 1mm thick plasticard, which I glued in place. I made these fillets oversize so that I could file to shape once the glue had set. I used good old Humbrol model filler to fill any slight gap followed by much smoothing with a fine sanding stick. This later process took several attempts to get an acceptable finish with no obvious join.

The next task was to drill the holes for the handrail knobs and attach the wire (Alan Gibson products - small handrail knobs and 0.45mm wire.).

I then turned my attention to the front end. That moulded on smoke box dart just had to go and was replaced by a turned brass item.

I was however tempted to leave the moulded on hand rail alone as its not easy to get at, but after much thought it just had to go. I used a scapel initially to remove as much as I dare and then finished off with a sanding stick whittled down to get into the confined space. The moulded on lamp bracket got the same treatment as well. Small handrail knobs and wire were duly applied.

I made a replacement lamp bracket out of a piece of 1mm diameter copper wire, hammered at one end to flatten it and then bent and filed to shape. Drill hole in smoke box and attach with glue. Sounds simple, but the lamp bracket is very tiny and when attempting to fix in place with tweezers it duly pinged across the room never to be seen again. I think I got it in place on the third attempt.

You could if you so wish replace the plastic whistle with a turned brass item, but I chose to leave the original in place.

That concludes the modifications

Next job was a full repaint. Not processing an airbrush and not wishing to spoil the plot with a brush I called the professional in. Parcel up the model and send off to Steve Johnson (Grimy Times) for a full repaint including the tender in BR Brunswick green complete with lining, etched nameplates, works plates and BR late crest. Although the tender was in excellent condition (an ebay find) I had it repainted in order to get an exact colour match with the engine. Steve also applied the weathering.

 

Cheers

Eric

Hi Eric

Thanks for the rundown, very interesting. It will no doubt sit in my never decreasing project list as a 'must do'

Kind Regards

Lee

[geoffers]

Nice one Eric. 

 

Geoff

[melmerby]

How about these might have beens:

 

http://www.vectis.co.uk/AuctionImages/336/4313_l.jpg+

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/1298244222/med_gallery_8020_1412_177618.jpg

 

Keith

[H2Eric]

If Hornby decide to produce the streamlined version of the P2 you can guess what will happen.

 

Eric

[bigwordsmith]

H2 Eric - I can't

[melmerby]

We may even get walshaerts ( apologies not sure of correct spelling ) valve gear as on 2002 - 2006.

If it's a streamlined front you don't get Lentz unless Hornby do something weird!

 

Keith

[The Black Hat]

Eric,

 

Your P2 is looking very nice - and its interesting to see another attempt at a similar idea. I like how yours is more in tune with how it could have run into transition period, whereas mine (seen at bottom of page 88) is more a new build to modern standards with the air pump, aws and even warning stripes.

 

Your steps for altering the engine are similar to mine in that are on my workbench thread, although the work youve done with the brass and handrails is brilliant.

 

Welcome to the forum too!

[kingfisher24]

A slightly modified P2

Very very nice looking piece of machinery. Apart from the nose end this is how i have done my second p2, I'm doing another what if with everything is as is except for the substitution of an a4 type nose which also looks good.

 

Just a quick comment on the loco here - would the number plate perhaps be better on the top smokebox door strap and the smokebox lamp iron where the number plate currently is.

 

Gary

[H2Eric]

Hi Gary

 

Thanks for the kind words. Regarding the position of the smoke box number plate I deliberated for quite some time over its position and considered the top strap on the smoke box as an option, but as most engines in the 12 inches to the foot scale had the number fairly high up I chose the option you see in the pictures. Since the first post I have added a screw link coupling to the front buffer beam and the handrail on the inside of the right hand smoke deflector. The handrail may require a second attempt as the enlarged photo below doesn't really do it any favours. Looks OK at normal size though. 

 

Eric

[melmerby]

This is typical for a LNER loco:

 

http://s0.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/02/29/45/2294539_65fe24df.jpg

 

And again:

 

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5513/12025177673_fbcd822917_b.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2777/4175405500_653aabaa35_b.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ce/King%27s_Cross_Station_geograph-2261732-by-Ben-Brooksbank.jpg

 

And 60501 herself:

http://ebid.s3.amazonaws.com/upload_big/0/6/5/1417702448-15813-32.jpg

 

Keith

 

EDIT interesting to note that 60501 is higher than 60503

 

But low here!

http://ebid.s3.amazonaws.com/upload_big/0/6/5/1417702448-15813-32.jpg

Edited April 8, 2015 by melmerby

[H2Eric]

Hello Keith

Thanks for posting the pictures, which give food for thought. The number may well fit between the lamp bracket and the smoke box dart

 

Eric

[melmerby]

Hello Keith

Thanks for posting the pictures, which give food for thought. The number may well fit between the lamp bracket and the smoke box dart

 

Eric

I got one of those links wrong

There are pictures of 60501 with number plate very high as well as lower down but I have lost the link!

 

Keith

[SDJR7F88]

Popped into my local model shop and was surprised to see they still had a R2307 in stock. So if anyone is interested hears a link...

https://www.signalsmodels.com/lner_2_8_2_class_p2_cock_o_the_north-details.aspx

[Jamiel]

It might be because they have mistyped the Hornby code, R2307 is a modern DMU, R3207 is the P2 (main range).

It would be a good buy for anyone still looking for the main range version, thanks for giving the link.

Jamie

[The Black Hat]

My P2, has the smokebox number plate placed directly over the smokebox door strap. My reasoning for this was to bring the appearance uniform with other A1 and A2 classes that in the late period Im modelling had the numberplate placed here. Also the reasoning is that mine is fitted with a headboard and as such the numberplate needed to be moved lower, otherwise the headboard would have obscured the numberplate and I would have thought that was wrong somehow.

 

Also, given the period, my P2 has a shedplate, being Darlington 51A.

[The Black Hat]

EDIT interesting to note that 60501 is higher than 60503

 

 

Keith,

 

is the height difference due to time periods. As far as I can see your pic of 60501 is Early Crest and i expect that 60503 is later. I could be wrong but thats the impression Im getting. A lot of your pictures show engines with a smokebox door more akin to Darlington and NER practice with the gap between the straps wider than other areas like lineage of GE or GN. As a result you get more uniform appearance when the NER used the same ratio of door size to position the straps, one thing I quite like about LNER engines that continued this practice, such as the B1 and Peppercorn pacfics. Other engines when fitted such as K1 62008 I think look better but I would say that. Its parly my reason for doing an L4 which you can see in the imaginery engines thread.

 

As a result, I think moving the door numberplate was to make sighting easier, but where the plate is positioned owes a lot to a locomotives class and the lineage it comes from. Peppercorn mixed the two styles with the K1 following a Gresley smokebox door as it was derived from the K4, while his Pacifics followed a style more akin to GE/NE practice. Should the P2 have remained as it was I dare say the plate would have started higher as on A1s and then be moved lower later, but given the unorthodox shape of the door on a P2 anyway it makes interpretation interesting.

 

I also think the class would have been moved to 606xx leaving 605xx for A2s that obviously were still going to be built, but admit that Erics take on the P2 in green is stunning and really well executed.