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GWR 2-8-0 to leave Moor Street


melmerby

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Hi all

 

I see GWR 2-8-0 No. 2885 in Moor Street is being removed next weekend, presumably by road.

 

See these road closures in Brum:

 

http://www.networkwestmidlands.com/bus/servicechanges/RoadWorks.aspx

 

It had been up for sale for some time so I assume it is not going back to Tyseley.

 

Any idea where it's new home will be?

 

Cheers

 

Keith

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it should have moved last year but when they came to move it the crane wasn't big enough, or has a long enough reach to get to it, it has been split for a while ready to move.

 

im in on the sunday hopefully may see it being moved if its not done over night

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Reported elsewhare that the new owner(s) wish to restore it, and that it IS going to Tyseley

 

Mark

If it's going to Tyseley, it's going to be reunited with one of the GWRPG's other locos, namely 4110. It's been there years, some work done on the frames/wheels/axleboxes etc, but nothing done for years. It's still in lots of (rusty) bits...........

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Why can't it be towed to Tyseley? Put a temporary connection to the running lines.

Flood the axleboxes with lube and move it slowly? - Or are the bearings too knackered?

 

The cost of cranes must be pretty high plus the cost of disrupting the centre of Birmingham for two days!

 

Keith

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i should imagine the cost of a crane etc would be a lot cheaper than trying to reconnect the line to the mainline, there was a cost being banded round the messroom of what it had already cost the owner for the aborted attempt to remove it which was 5 figures.

 

unfortunatly there is simply no room to get any tracks in between the end of the platform and current sidings anyway, not even a way of getting it dragged to the end of its current severed line and craned over to the track as there is no way of getting a crane down there without coming from bordesley and having to make some sort of roadway/crossing to get it to the right side of the tracks for a lift

 

there is of course a nice kirow crane currently sat in bescot yard which could possibly do the job if they did find a way of getting it moved by rail

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Whilst the aborted crane hire might be costly, road closures take some weeks to arrange and can be the larger part of the cost with all the operatives employed  such a banksmen operative for the road closure management etc. , road haulier and so on.

 

So yes, a five figure sum is easily reached.

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Why can't it be towed to Tyseley? Put a temporary connection to the running lines.

Flood the axleboxes with lube and move it slowly? - Or are the bearings too knackered?

 

The cost of cranes must be pretty high plus the cost of disrupting the centre of Birmingham for two days!

 

Keith

 

Did it need to be craned out to load it on a road trailer?  Even if it did you could probably still get a suitable crane for under £2,000 or so for the time needed to do the job and even if it cost 5 times that it would still come in a lot cheaper than messing around with a track layout for a day or two and putting it back afterwards let alone adding in the rail haulage charges and necessary arrangements for a very special special moving a loco whivch would probably need a lot of preparation prior to even being examined let alone shifted.

 

Overall I bet the road move saved them a sum well into 5 figures and unless it was going to Tyseley it would still have to be loaded to road anyway.

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i think its going to take quite a substancial crane to get it out, its got quite a reach to achieve to get above it, grabbed these pics earlier on......

 

its got to be lifted over basically 3 track spans

AA6888D1-1AE4-4494-8ACB-AE40207EC0CA-135

 

and down onto moor st queensway which isn't exactly flat!

8331C9B8-A375-4FE6-A07E-1FD5C32FFEE0-135

 

you can get a idea of how steep the road is where the crane will have to sit by looking at the bus in this picture, even if its levelled out the recieving wagon will be on the slope

436FDD4D-BC3E-4BFF-AB3E-7412BBB54560-135

 

this is a panorama pic of the site which gives a better idea of the task ahead

0533AC80-6191-4694-A686-367B46304C76-135

 

and here is the other end of the track its sat on, walking route right across the end of it as well as gsmr gubbins, lights etc, so a real no no

04655E73-01FB-4CAA-9222-4C577557D534-135

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unfortunatly there is simply no room to get any tracks in between the end of the platform and current sidings anyway

 

:offtopic: (ish)

 

Yes that is one of the aspects I found puzling when I saw the reinstated platforms at Moor Street. I mean even if it isn't strictly needed for the current service level there is nothing to stop it doubling up as a stabling road. Thing is with that canopy passengers are potentially better protected from the elements than the other platform currently in use (the one backing onto the through line). Even if it isn't needed now not having room to reconnect it in the future does seem daft. Mind you the station throat looks very 'mimimalistic' too as it doesn't seem to allow parallel arivals and departures either

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Possibly a giant hand from above, as per the model railway fiddle yard?

 

Mike, you forgot the cost of rail replacement bus services for 2 weekends while the track is altered...

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If you look at this:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Birmingham+Moor+Street+Station&hl=en&ll=52.477701,-1.889391&spn=0.001313,0.002411&sll=52.8382,-2.327815&sspn=10.681665,19.753418&oq=moor+street+station&t=h&hq=Birmingham+Moor+Street+Station&radius=15000&z=19

 

The buffer stop line could be extended into the unused lines fairly easily.

Don't forget this was a 4 track formation with parallel fast (Snow Hill) and slow (Moor Street) lines which ran all the way out to Lapworth.

 

It is an extremely difficult site to crane a loco out of and the road disruption is going to horrendous (and expensive)

 

Keith

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Not knowing how they're going to do it, so just speculation - if they jacked it up and slid it sideways first across to the region of the fence there'd be a lot less luff on the jib. In fact, if you took the wall out you'd nearly be able to do the whole job with jacks and beams with the loco ending up on a trailer.

 

More than one way is possible - be interesting to see how they finally do it.

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it may look level from the sky but its certainly not at ground level, not horrendously unlevel but a fair bit of work involved, plus there is the raised concrete walking route with lights, various troughing, and 2 point motors to worry about.

 

i dont think the disruption to traffic will be too bad as the uphill bit of the queensway will still be open from what i can gather, since the remodelling of the road outside of moor st, very little apart from buses uses the downhill bit towards park st

 

Not knowing how they're going to do it, so just speculation - if they jacked it up and slid it sideways first across to the region of the fence there'd be a lot less luff on the jib.

what they need is some sort of traverser..........oh wait!

 

http://warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrms1699.htm

 

Don't forget this was a 4 track formation with parallel fast (Snow Hill) and slow (Moor Street) lines which ran all the way out to Lapworth.

 

thats something i'd like to see happen again, traffic on the line out to leamington surely warrants it, if you look at my cab ride video on youtube you will see that there are very few places en route to lapworth where 4 tracks couldn't be reintroduced, station carparks would have to move but other than that the infrustructure is there

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Just before it arrived there was an access from the road for construction traffic, so it may have come in that way.

 

Regarding the lines over the viaduct, there were 5 running lines to Bordesley South then 6 to Tyseley South prior to the diversion of traffic to New St in 1967. Even with today's rules there would be room for 4 tracks, although I think that equipment would need moving out of the way at some locations.

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Just before it arrived there was an access from the road for construction traffic, so it may have come in that way.

 

Regarding the lines over the viaduct, there were 5 running lines to Bordesley South then 6 to Tyseley South prior to the diversion of traffic to New St in 1967. Even with today's rules there would be room for 4 tracks, although I think that equipment would need moving out of the way at some locations.

Forgot the pair of goods lines coming off the N Warks line at Tyseley Junction.

 

 

Jim

The road will be closed completely 0010-0600 Sunday so one assumes that is when the action takes place

 

Keith

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Is this the 28xx that was owned by the Great Western Preservation group? One of the posts earlier mentioned it being re-united with their 4110

 

Err Yes! http://www.gwrpg.co.uk/2011/08/for-sale-collett-class-2884-gwr-heavy-goods-locomotive/

 

I remember this arriving at Southall back in 1981.

 

Anyone know why the GWRPG have sold it?

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The obvious question is - how did it get in?

I believe that Moor St was refurbished (and the loco installed) at the same time the adjacent Bullring shopping center was undergoing redevelopment & extension. Thus it was probably far easier to find space for a crane etc. than it is now everything has been finished.

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Is this the 28xx that was owned by the Great Western Preservation group? One of the posts earlier mentioned it being re-united with their 4110

 

Err Yes! http://www.gwrpg.co.uk/2011/08/for-sale-collett-class-2884-gwr-heavy-goods-locomotive/

 

I remember this arriving at Southall back in 1981.

 

Anyone know why the GWRPG have sold it?

 

 

 

It was sold because the GWRPG has realised that it was unlikely to get round to restoring it now, considering how long it has been in it's ownership. The group restored (well, had restored, at Swindon) Pannier tank 9682, and it's due to return to service in 2013 again. Large Prairie tank 4110 was started on at Southall before being moved to Tyseley where further work was carried out, but that has ground to a halt.

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According to the GWRPG site this move was originally to take place last June!

 

The locomotive was said, at that time, to have been sold to a Birmingham based consortium and that it would be restored at Tyseley.

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