'Professional' modellers?

[AngryMeerkat]

As I'm on a sabbatical from my proper job, I've been picking up odd jobs here and there to pass the time. My current job is for a company that currently deal in scale models of the kit variety (I can't say too much unfortunately) which are sold to customers as a selection of parts and an instruction manual. My role is to deal with customer problems, if they are struggling with something and I can't help them over the telephone they send the model (in its entirety, so all parts and part-built items) to the offices of the company where I strip it down to its components and rebuild it 'properly'.

 

The reason I'm saying this is 2 of the issues I've had today, both of which relate to supposedly 'professional' model makers or 'extremely experienced' model makers. Bear in mind the model in question is A) very expensive (£600ish) and B) made up of around 80 components, and sits at about 2ft overall length. It took me a day to learn the model inside out, all the wiring and fitting and any small alterations that need to be made, and at present I can fully strip and rebuild one model a day without referring to instructions (it's not very complex if you just look at it). So, the anecdotes.....

 

Mr A, a nice gent. Emailed asking for a part, very polite. I told him the part doesn't exist, but he wouldn't believe me. His emails turned to fone calls, which ended in me sending a picture of my own model to show him the part doesn't exist. Today I received a letter, which contained the part he's asking for from the opposite side of the model, and a request for me not to lie to a professional model maker any more, stop fobbing him off with excuses, and send him the part he is asking for. IF he bothered to look at the area around the part he is requesting, he would see that there isn't even a provision to fit the part he is asking for!! I almost sent him a bag containing fresh air with a note to explain the part he wants is enclosed!!

 

Mr B, not so nice. Complained that the model was wrong and couldn't possibly fit together, and he should know as he is a "very experienced professional model maker of many years". He was sent a large batch of replacement parts, but continued to complain about badly fitting parts, so we asked him to return the model in its current state for us to remedy the problem. Well the model turned up today.....

 

Not a single screw was correct, despite the model having very clear instructions and being supplied with a compartmentalised case for each different screw. Granted there are 18 different types of screw, but they are all markedly different either by colour or size or being a self tapping variety. One part which should contain 4 screws of the same type in an area 2" square even had FOUR different types of screws in TWO different colours!!

 

He had managed to fit incorrectly some 15 of the 21 parts I had to remove to strip the model. (Also see further down).

 

Some of the parts he couldn't fit correctly he had butchered so badly they were broken beyond repair, a bag of these also arrived in the box.

 

The parts that he had broken but were still salvageable, along with any bits with the wrong screws or fitted incorrectly were just glued in place, and badly glued at that!!

 

There were numerous other faults that I won't bother to list (glue frosting the glazing) but as you can see from the above, this is the product of a 'professional modeller'. I was truly gobsmacked at what I saw, and the implied nature of him being a 'professional' means he could well be somebody we may send our models to for building or repair!!

 

The point of this rather long post is that we should all beware of the people we think of as better than us, and even more important we should all be careful of the name and reputation we give to our own hobby (or industry, as this applies to EVERY job).

 

Mark

[newbryford]

Mr B, not so nice. Complained that the model was wrong and couldn't possibly fit together, and he should know as he is a "very experienced professional model maker of many years". He was sent a large batch of replacement parts, but continued to complain about badly fitting parts, so we asked him to return the model in its current state for us to remedy the problem. Well the model turned up today.....

 

 

Was it "pro-weathered"?

 

Cheers,

Mick

[rob D2]

well, meerkat that makes you a " professional " modeller I reckon.

One of the few that get paid for it. As my esteemed friend above says looking at some of the stuff proporting to be " professional" on eBay I'd rather be an amateur.

 

there seems to be a real narccistic problem in areas of this hobby to call cack " professional", and it's not just the eBay junk peddlers, I've been underwhelmed with some of the more well known weathering companies.

[Colin_McLeod]

I too have purchased a "professionally built" kit. I regretted not just buying the kit. Not only would I have saved some money, bit I believe I would have made a better job of it.

 

Colin (amature modeller)

[Belsay Lad]

OK maybe not exactly the same but...

 

Many years ago my then employer was introducing a new computer system which would be used by some 12,000 employees. The programmers ensured that any system errors or user errors (PICNIC's  - 'Problem In Chair Not In Computer' as we called them!) would give a suitable message on screen asking the user to contact the Helpdesk , ie where I worked, giving the error code quoted on screen. We would then be able to tell exactly what had caused the error and give suitable advice. Foolproof???

 

Should have been but...

 

typical phone call

 

'Did you get an error message on the screen?'

 

'Err, yes'

 

'So what was it?'

 

'Dunno, I clicked OK, then the computer crashed'!!!

 

Make something foolproof and the fools get a bit smarter (or dumber!).

[Bruciethefish]

I've had to rescue a fair few jobs done by so-called 'professionals', some of which look like they've been attempted by a 10-year-old.. If you want to be sure of a decent job, ask to see photos of completed work of the nature you're considering commissioning, any good professional should be able to show you at least something. If they're really good, be prepared to wait a considerable time for your job to reach its 'slot'....

[alfsboy]

Sympathy sent

 

I have made models and master patterns for people since 1982.Soldiers ,racing cars ,ordinary cars ,lots of loco painting ,all US brass locos , a few tanks and aircraft .I have made a few kits including some for a guy  who told me his collection of nazi kits and figure were in memory of his dead son and could he have them cheaper.He didnt .I later saw the models ,as I suspected ,in a museum.I thought I recognised his name  .I have also been commissioned a special military figure by a multi millionaire  who when I delivered it said he loved it ,it was superb,blah blah  but he thought it was over priced so would only pay me half the agreed sum .I trod on it in front of him and walked out .His wife ,a nice lady ,paid me by post .she also told me what she thought of him ..I always do my best to produce a nice crisp well made model that has a certain sparkle even if its weathered within an inch of its life .Its not enough to produce a hasty pile of rubbish but its also worth pointing out that it also costs money .It never surprises me just what people come out with and I dont even bother quoting members of the public anymore .They ask and then think I am ripping them off when I give them a very reasonable quote .My favorite is from a figure company .He asked me to quote for a stag in 7mm .I told him and heard him almost have a heart attack on the other end .I was quoting low as well, as I had the research already drawn up for it from a large scale project years ago .On that project I told the guy a large scale stag in metal would buckle under its own weight,thin staggy legs etc  .it was for a drinks company .No thats fine he said .A few months later he is moaning that that couldnt take the weight when cast .A hasty bush was made and cast to support it .Didnt look so good but at least it wouldnt collapse on a customers foot

.Of course I am not going to tell you about the failures .....................................but at least no complaints from customers so far .

sorry I must add this sad note .The best figure I ever sculpted was a one off ,a viking about 100mm.nIckel sword ,leather scabbard and leg straps etc .All painted and sold to an America collector .I delivered it to the Zinnfiguren show at kulmbach in Germany and a guy wanted to photograph it .The owner who had coughed up quite a sum for it put on a balcony handrail..........You guessed it .it dropped a story or two and was completely smashed up.The collector took in good humor but I was glad I got the money in my shoe .did get one photo though . :-)

Martin

[28XX]

If you want a job done properly, do it yourself.

[Gilbert]

I'm not just a modeller - I coach sport - also as an amateur - but I've coached to a high level. In sport - as in modelling there are "professionals"....... a parent captured it nicely for me - "Just cos' you're paid doesn't make you professional..."

nuf said?

[Colin_McLeod]

Doing it for a living and getting paid does make you a professional.

 

However being a professional doesn't necessarily mean that you are good.

[alfsboy]

Doing it for a living and getting paid does make you a professional.

 

However being a professional doesn't necessarily mean that you are good.

I've never called myself a professional .I always felt the guys making all those great architectural models and exhibition models are pros .I just make a living .Its much better than working and I never advertise or even tout very often .I had offers to work full time for companies like Tetra ,who made the million pound Lloyds building model   but I would get bored by the lobby so leave it to others .I know I could build locos from scratch in brass as I have made brass patterns of guns and cars and bits for locos but i have never really fancied it and I am certainly not an engineer  so I mainly make little people  to populate many layouts .

[Black Sheep]

It never surprises me just what people come out with and I dont even bother quoting members of the public anymore .They ask and then think I am ripping them off when I give them a very reasonable quote .My favorite is from a figure company .He asked me to quote for a stag in 7mm .I told him and heard him almost have a heart attack on the other end .I was quoting low as well, as I had the research already drawn up for it from a large scale project years ago .On that project I told the guy a large scale stag in metal would buckle under its own weight,thin staggy legs etc  .it was for a drinks company .No thats fine he said .A few months later he is moaning that that couldnt take the weight when cast .A hasty bush was made and cast to support it .Didnt look so good but at least it wouldnt collapse on a customers foot

.Of course I am not going to tell you about the failures .....................................but at least no complaints from customers so far .

This is what I don't understand, having worked as a freelance graphic designer what I quote is what I expect to be paid, any haggling over price needs to be done before the contract is drawn up, or in the model building case, the kit being sent to the builder. If there's something gone wrong that's my fault, then it's up to me to sort out something that the client is happy with.

 

As such, when I have plumbers, electricians and builders come and quote, I may ask if there's a cheaper way of doing the job, mainly by changing my requirements, but the price they quote is the price I expect to pay (although I wish I hadn't paid the electrician, but that's another story)

 

so why do people think, after asking someone to produce something, saying 'yes, ok' to the price do they feel it acceptable to lower the price? I'm not eBay's "buy now or best offer" option.

[Kenton]

If you want a job done properly, do it yourself.

The problem is that many are incapable of doing it themselves, or believe they are, do not have the time or inclination but have the money and time to wait. (show me a professional who doesn't have a long waiting list or doesn't turn away work).

 

Then we have the same old problem with that word professionsl and experienced

 

I firmly believe that no one can claim themselves experienced in every kit - I personally have no experience in building a kit until I have built at least one of the same before. Instructions, as a generality, are on a sliding scale of rubbish to personal whim of the designer. The first kit of any "designer" done by the kit builder is always a "getting to know" process.

 

I have never come across colour coded screws in any kit. That doesn't make it a bad idea, but it does mean that the builder might simply assume a screw is a screw is a coloured screw. The instructions even if readable might not be rational to someone who didn't write them and uses screws every day to do the same job.

 

Then we have the problem of how many kits the professional builds and what build quality level the customer base expects of the builder. If I build a kit it is very much out-of-the-box and this satisfies most if not all requests. It certainly will not please the finescale lobby and those (many RMWebbers) who want that something extra added.

 

The best advert is always going to be "Here is one of the same I built for xyz. Who asked for the following extra detail, not in the kit. Go ask xyz if he was happy with the result."

 

A non-professional, experienced in soldering and in building some kits, but wouldn't touch some other kits even if you paid me.

[SNCF stephen]

I recently became a chartered member of my profession. It took a degree, post grad diploma, 7 years practical experience and then approximately 50,000 words worth of work to be considered a professional. Having done all that I feel I can justify calling myself a professional in my area of work. However, when people just call themselves professional it really does mean nothing without something to back it up. If they have made several models for a friend then does that make them professional? Do they operate layouts on the exhibition circuit, does that make someone professional? In one respect this reminds me of some of the layouts seen on the popular auction site that are stated to be professionally built up to exhibition standard. When you see the quality (or lack of) on some of these layouts you do wonder whether these words have lost all meaning! 

[Jol Wilkinson]

The difficulty is that there are no qualifications for the professional model builder, so anyone who takes money for assembling a model can describe themselves as such. Of course, the builder can always blame the kit supplier/designer if he c*cks up.

 

Part of the problem also lies with the customer, who usually is looking for "value for money". As Kenton says, ask to see examples of a "professional's" work before offering them a commission, rather than just going for the best price.

 

Jol

 

 

[AngryMeerkat]

well, meerkat that makes you a " professional " modeller I reckon.

One of the few that get paid for it. As my esteemed friend above says looking at some of the stuff proporting to be " professional" on eBay I'd rather be an amateur.

there seems to be a real narccistic problem in areas of this hobby to call cack " professional", and it's not just the eBay junk peddlers, I've been underwhelmed with some of the more well known weathering companies.

 

By definition I guess I am, however I will NEVER claim to be a professional modeller. I'm just a guy who can follow instructions when it comes to modelling, unlike many here on RMWeb who could very easily be professional modellers when you see the quality of their work, it's a standard I could only dream of attaining through many years of practice.

 

As many of you have alluded to - is the word 'professional' something that now makes us modellers run a mile? It certainly makes me wary!

 

Mark

[Guest jim s-w]

Unless you earn your living from something, you cant be a profesional at it. Doesnt matter how good you are or how long you've been doing it.

 

Its simple.

 

However people can earn thier living from model making, that doesnt by default mean they are good at it. Think of it like this, 2 blokes are paid to drive cars, one is a taxi, one is an F1 car. They do the same thing but that doesnt make them equal.

 

Cheers

 

Jim

[The Q]

One thing that always annoys me is the professional bodies that set up ever higher quailifications to join, when those who set up the body often have no qualifications or lesser, because the qualification they now insist on didn't exist when they created the body.

It is a a problem in this and some other countries that there is no legal definition of your level of qualification. If you call a big TV company they send an engineer.... who may have had a couple of days training to go check to see of it is plugged in and connected correctly if it is and doesn't work they take it away.

Whereas I have a degree and 30 years of experience in my trade and was recruited because of that, yet I am classed as a technician.

Being a professioanl is hoe the person acts in his job, I have worked with many engineers who act very unprofessional, and many technicians who are very Professional. I've often found it the case that those in a technical trade who take the management route are the least professional.

The Q

[DavidLong]

 In one respect this reminds me of some of the layouts seen on the popular auction site that are stated to be professionally built up to exhibition standard. When you see the quality (or lack of) on some of these layouts you do wonder whether these words have lost all meaning! 

 

Having seen many layouts at many exhibitions over the last fifty years I would say that there is a certain elasticity in the definition 'exhibition standard'.

 

David

[Waverley West]

 

 

Unless you earn your living from something, you cant be a profesional at it. Doesnt matter how good you are or how long you've been doing it.

 

Its simple.

 

However people can earn thier living from model making, that doesnt by default mean they are good at it. Think of it like this, 2 blokes are paid to drive cars, one is a taxi, one is an F1 car. They do the same thing but that doesnt make them equal.

 

Cheers

 

 

Jim

 

 [Activate pedant mode]

 

True in one sense, Jim, but you can be "professional" at something while still being an amateur, as in the sense of "having impressive competence in a particular activity", according to my dictionary.

 

So it depends on which definition of professional you're using - someone who's good at something or someone who's paid to do something.

 

You can be a "professional amateur" or an "amateur professional", in other words a very competent amateur or a very incompetent professional, as you say. There, I couldn't agree more.

 

[Deactivate pedant mode]

 

Cheers,

Dave

[Peter Kazmierczak]

So was someone like the late great Patrick Moore, an amateur or professional astronomer?

[Waverley West]

So was someone like the late great Patrick Moore, an amateur or professional astronomer?

Well, according to the great man himself, he was an amateur, so I guess that makes him a very professional amateur.

[Guest jim s-w]

Amateur astromoner, professional journalist.

[Baby Deltic]

One thing that always annoys me is the professional bodies that set up ever higher quailifications to join, when those who set up the body often have no qualifications or lesser, because the qualification they now insist on didn't exist when they created the body.

It is a a problem in this and some other countries that there is no legal definition of your level of qualification. If you call a big TV company they send an engineer.... who may have had a couple of days training to go check to see of it is plugged in and connected correctly if it is and doesn't work they take it away.

Whereas I have a degree and 30 years of experience in my trade and was recruited because of that, yet I am classed as a technician.

Being a professioanl is hoe the person acts in his job, I have worked with many engineers who act very unprofessional, and many technicians who are very Professional. I've often found it the case that those in a technical trade who take the management route are the least professional.

The Q

 

Just like the fact that you can't be called an engineer under EU rules unless you have a degree.  I'm sure IK Brunel and Newcomen never had degrees and look what they and their ilk achieved. I've worked with engineering graduates who are about as much use as t*ts on a bull when it comes down to good old practical engineering.

[BG John]

Many many years ago, my Dad worked in the workshops at the Met Office. The highly educated professionals from upstairs used to come down with totally unworkable designs for bits for weather balloons or whatever, and my only qualified by experience Dad had to make something to his own design that actually worked!