fender Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I've been considering using EM for my next layout for some time, to the extent that I joined the EMGS and have had a good look through their manual. I'm sure I want to go down the hand-built track route but I am now seriously considering starting in P4 instead. I've read lots of articles and threads about it and I am left with a few questions. The scale four society recommends building a turnout, a bit of plain track and a wagon or two to make sure P4 will be a good idea. I intend to do this, and to that end: Which track would you suggest? I am thinking a C&L turnout-in-a-bag would be a good start, and then progress to building the whole thing if the is successful. Which wagon would you recommend going for to convert to P4 first? I have a number of RTR Bachman vans I could use, or would you recommend buying a kit? If so, which? Finally, the EMGS supports P4 but I'm not sure to what extent their loco conversion sheets would be applicable. Can anyone say if switching to Scalefour would be worthwhile considering I'm already an EMGS member? Thanks very much Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Hi Fender, C&L flexitrack is my choice within a Templot trackplan. Absolutely flat track is ideal for P4 so be particular with baseboard/frame construction. I'm a member of the EMGS society too by preference, having already tried the Scalefour Society. Precision wheelsets are critical...Ultrascale produce excellent wagon wheels/axles. I would start with a few short wheelbase Parkside wagon kits (10' or less) without suspension and then try e.g. one of the Bill Bedford range from Eileens with sprung suspension. 11 thou guitar wire is excellent for the spring...there are some good tips in the clinics section of the Finescale Fred website for getting the best from sprung wagon suspension. Get used to wheel back to back and track gauges. Have a look at Mostyn on the Barrowmore MRG site...there are some excellent pointers to good P4 running there. There is much joy to be had in P4 but avoid cheap/substandard components especially wheelsets, make sure that your track is flat and that buffers are at the correct height and aligned properly. Developing an eye for 'square' stockbuilding is crucial too. Forget about needing excessive weight to keep the stock on the track....50-75g for two axle wagons is ample. Slop is not an engineering term, it is what you fall back on in P4 instead of doing it properly....not the way to go. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 As a member of the EMGS modelling in P4 - for societies - either or both And from your other layout threads - practically you need a 4ft minimum radius and B6 turnouts as a minimum for P4 otherwise things won't run as you'd expect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I am a member of both societies. Each has its strengths and weaknesses. It says something [not sure what] that the last two Chairmen of EMGS have been P4 modellers. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fender Posted January 28, 2013 Author Share Posted January 28, 2013 thanks very much for your replies. Coombe Barton, I do realise that -thanks. I've just been bitten by the desire to have the best looking track I can (if I can do it!) I think I should be able to do Bodmin in the space I have without too much trouble. If I can't, and if my p4 experiments are successful, I'll do something else instead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fender Posted January 28, 2013 Author Share Posted January 28, 2013 btw it was this article that finally spurred me to give it a go, in case anyone's interested: http://www.freewebs.com/p4madeeasy/p4mythscont.htm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penrhos1920 Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Come to Scalefour North in Wakefield http://www.scalefour.org/shows/shows.html Exactoscale (now sold by C&L) sell turnout kits which are designed to be built straight but can be built on a gentle curve. I think these are better than the C&L turnout-in-a-bag as they have the stock rail and switch rail pre-joined so that is one less thing to go wrong. Dave and John have given good advice, but make sure that any ridge wagon has parallel axles before you start and 26mm axles. You can do tighter curves, but need to think about it a bit more. Last September the S4 Soc had pre-converted class 25s for sale. Some diesels are easy to convert and most inside cylinder steam engines are easy if you use Ultrascale conversion sets. Other diesels and steam engines with outside valve gear are harder. Try to contact your nearest S4 area group. If you live in the Teesside / York area we would allow you to come along and play with our trains and see what we can achieve (which isn't always as good as other manage - some of the track on the group layout is far from flat) even if you're not a S4 Sco member. Other AGs have their own 'rules', some are more like clubs. For what it's worth I'm only a member of S4 Soc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Looking at http://www.scalefour.org/shows/scaleforum2009/bodmin.html Just looked up the nearest thing to a scale plan I have - you need 12.5 feet from the booking hall to the overbridge. you have (from your other threads) 4.5 metres - that's 14.75 ft in English money. That leaves only a couple of feet for a fiddle yard. If you want Bodmin general you'd realistically be looking at some selective compression, but I'm sure it can be done. I think you need at least a four foot fiddle yard otherwise you're going to be struggling to get long enough freights. But there's no reason it can't be done. And Bodmin has a helluva lot of fun stuff in that quite short length. To scale Ashburton is 11 ft from buffer stop to the first turnout, and Moretonhamstead is 25 ft or more. But back on topic - I have gone P4 because I want it to look the part. No matter how long it takes. I like the building - the operation can wait. I've been collecting tools and gauges over the past three years - now it's time I put them to use more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 http://www.freewebs.com/p4madeeasy/p4mythscont.htm Like the date on that site (top right) - are they into time travel? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 For me there is no contest, appearance is everything. If you are looking at a model at track-level (elevated) EM code 70 track can look very good but the large wheel flanges on the vehicles let it down. From above or along the track you don't notice the large flanges but the large gaps between closure rails and stock rails and the crossing vee in turnouts let it down. I have 25 year old C&L track built using plywood sleepers and plastic chairs, turnouts not built from kits and plain track from before flexitrack came out. All in perfect condition. I say go for it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 If you want to have a go at P4, then have a go. It's your railway, and you have the final say on what is good enough and what isn't. Don't be put off by some of the amazing work you see on here (and on other sites). A good place to start is by reading the excellent "warts n' all" experience that is Knuckle's Blog (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/483/entry-8634-moving-to-p4/). As far as I'm concerned, I've never built a 'boil in the bag' point kit. I (sometimes...) model the ex-GE in East London at the edge of Regents Canal, so what isn't rail-level ash is full depth concrete. And of course, tight bends and non-standard points abound. I get by with PCB. It's cheap, so if you do make a mistake... it won't break the bank, or swallow your mojo.... I started out building SMP 00 plastic point kits, then moved to their PCB version, did EM for a while, and now feel OK with building my own P4. Whatever you decide, as previous posts have said; consistency is key. The S4 Soc. do all the requisite jigs an' ting. And there are a number of standard couplings out there... But just have a go; start small, and once you get your eye in, you'll find it becomes second nature. If you need some help, this place is heaven! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I would definitely recommend giving P4 a try. EM is fine and many are happy with it but, if you want the best looking track, then it has to be P4. Once you've seen how much better the flangeway gaps look, there is no way back. Forty years ago when I wanted something better than 00, I went for EM because in those days P4 was widely presented as some sort of mystic right involving rolled up trousers and strange handshakes, both exotic and unachievable by most modellers. I managed to build a few EM turnouts using copper-clad and they all worked well, but then I drifted away from modelling. Later, when I returned to the hobby after a thirty year break, I immediately set about building things in EM because that was what I knew. It took a while to realise that P4 was not as difficult as I had imagined and there are now many more readily available components. Of course, there are still some who seem to enjoy giving dire warnings about it. The simple fact is that provided you start from a flat, or carefully graded surface and take a methodical approach to everything you do, there is not a lot that can go wrong. The only down side for me is that I've been converting stock for the last few years and have an increasing surplus of EM wheels. As to track, I can't see the point of using any form of flexi stuff or ancient copper-clad technology outside of fiddle yards. If you want the best looking track then use wooden sleepers and individual chairs (for bullhead, at least, I've no experience of flat bottom). I use Exactoscale chairs and ply sleepers/timbers and have also used C&L chairs. It's not difficult because the gauges do all the precision work for you. You can get suitable gauges from several sources, e.g. Alan Gibson. As to pointwork, if you not built any before then one of the kits may be a good start but you should be able to graduate to making your own from scratch very soon. Filing the blades and crossing V may be daunting at first but you really don't need special jigs to do it. For the V, take a look at Brian Harrap's method, it's much easier than the more conventional approaches. Again, the gauges do the precision work for you. Use Templot to create your templates/plans and you can choose or create the required rail lengths and sleeper spacings for your chosen location and era. I see we've already had the suggestion to use Ultrascale wheels. They're excellent and I do use some of their drivers but lead times and cost are a serious consideration. Exactoscale wagon wheels are also excellent, though current availability is an issue and they are not cheap. There are cheaper and quite acceptable alternatives, though. Most Gibson wheels are fine, though now and then you'll find a wobbly or non-concentric one. Colin is usually happy to exchange defective ones and, at the price, you can probably afford to throw some away. Other makes are available... Most of my stock is kit built, but I have a few re-wheeled Bachmann examples that run well. Give them a try first just to have something to push through your new pointwork. For starting with brass kits and the luxury of springing, try this thread. You might also like to try putting sprung W irons under a plastic kit from Cooper Craft, Parkside Dundas, etc. Sprung W irons or complete underframes are available from Bill Bedford, Masokits and others. Societies are a personal thing, I'm not a member of either though I find the scalefour website worth a look now and then, otherwise RWweb serves most of my needs. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ullypug Posted January 28, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 28, 2013 Hi Like you, I debated long and hard about whether to go EM or P4 (back in 1996). I'm a member of both societies, I model in both EM and P4 (the benefit of prototypes that will never meet). Looking back, I wouldn't say one is harder or easier than the other. P4 is less forgiving with tolerances but that's about it. I think your plan is fine. Buy a C&L kit. If making a common crossing V assembly worries you, buy this bit ready made. At least you then know what it needs to look like to work for the next one. Same with switch blades. But don't worry. You need the same skills to hand build tack in 00, EM, P4, or any other scale for that matter. You don't measure anything, the jigs do it for you. Until you've had a go, you won't know what you need to do. Knuckles' blogs referred to above are an excellent reference. Wagons? A Bachmann open will do, 9ft or 10ft wheelbase is a good place to start. It doesn't have to be sprung or compensated at that wheelbase as long as there's a little slop in one of the axles (which you can achieve by slightly filing down the end of the axles). You can work up to kits. The key is that the axles are parallel. You'll notice it runs better if you put a bit of lead in the wagon, which is the other thing in P4. 50g for a 4 wheel wagon is considered about right. It's more than you think. But above all else, try it and see. As others have said, you can always go to an Expo or Scalefour show and ask the demonstrators. Even ask layout operators. Local area groups are an option too. I've never met anyone in either society who wasn't prepared to pass on their knowledge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 These are good for getting axles parallel http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/axle_gauges.htm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 ....Exactoscale (now sold by C&L) ... C&L are not ready yet!! Don't jump the gun! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fender Posted January 29, 2013 Author Share Posted January 29, 2013 great! lots of useful info and encouragement. thanks very much:) Come to Scalefour North in Wakefield http://www.scalefour.org/shows/shows.html Exactoscale (now sold by C&L) sell turnout kits which are designed to be built straight but can be built on a gentle curve. I think these are better than the C&L turnout-in-a-bag as they have the stock rail and switch rail pre-joined so that is one less thing to go wrong. Dave and John have given good advice, but make sure that any ridge wagon has parallel axles before you start and 26mm axles. You can do tighter curves, but need to think about it a bit more. Last September the S4 Soc had pre-converted class 25s for sale. Some diesels are easy to convert and most inside cylinder steam engines are easy if you use Ultrascale conversion sets. Other diesels and steam engines with outside valve gear are harder. Try to contact your nearest S4 area group. If you live in the Teesside / York area we would allow you to come along and play with our trains and see what we can achieve (which isn't always as good as other manage - some of the track on the group layout is far from flat) even if you're not a S4 Sco member. Other AGs have their own 'rules', some are more like clubs. For what it's worth I'm only a member of S4 Soc. yes, one of the reasons I like Bodmin is that I can start by modelling the mid 60s, just after dieselisation, when they had DMUs, Class03s or 08s, Class 22s, Class 25s (I think) and Class 37s stopping by. so quite a few loco options and, as you say, shouldn't be too hard to convert. However, I also like steam and can make a couple of 45XXs a longer-term project to model the station a couple of years before as well. I'm down in W. Sussex so that'll be a bit far for me, but I do take your point about getting involved locally. If you want to have a go at P4, then have a go. It's your railway, and you have the final say on what is good enough and what isn't. Don't be put off by some of the amazing work you see on here (and on other sites). A good place to start is by reading the excellent "warts n' all" experience that is Knuckle's Blog (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/483/entry-8634-moving-to-p4/). As far as I'm concerned, I've never built a 'boil in the bag' point kit. I (sometimes...) model the ex-GE in East London at the edge of Regents Canal, so what isn't rail-level ash is full depth concrete. And of course, tight bends and non-standard points abound. I get by with PCB. It's cheap, so if you do make a mistake... it won't break the bank, or swallow your mojo.... I started out building SMP 00 plastic point kits, then moved to their PCB version, did EM for a while, and now feel OK with building my own P4. Whatever you decide, as previous posts have said; consistency is key. The S4 Soc. do all the requisite jigs an' ting. And there are a number of standard couplings out there... But just have a go; start small, and once you get your eye in, you'll find it becomes second nature. If you need some help, this place is heaven! that blog does look very good. thanks. my plan is to go for chairs glued to ply sleepers as I think that will look the best. I'm going to take is slow and work up to everything. one of the things I've learned from my Penzance layout is that a desire (or need!) to get things done quickly can lead to a lot of compromises. I don't want this to happen to my next project, hence the willingness to get stuck in with P4. I really hope I can make it work! I would definitely recommend giving P4 a try. EM is fine and many are happy with it but, if you want the best looking track, then it has to be P4. Once you've seen how much better the flangeway gaps look, there is no way back. Forty years ago when I wanted something better than 00, I went for EM because in those days P4 was widely presented as some sort of mystic right involving rolled up trousers and strange handshakes, both exotic and unachievable by most modellers. I managed to build a few EM turnouts using copper-clad and they all worked well, but then I drifted away from modelling. Later, when I returned to the hobby after a thirty year break, I immediately set about building things in EM because that was what I knew. It took a while to realise that P4 was not as difficult as I had imagined and there are now many more readily available components. Of course, there are still some who seem to enjoy giving dire warnings about it. The simple fact is that provided you start from a flat, or carefully graded surface and take a methodical approach to everything you do, there is not a lot that can go wrong. The only down side for me is that I've been converting stock for the last few years and have an increasing surplus of EM wheels. As to track, I can't see the point of using any form of flexi stuff or ancient copper-clad technology outside of fiddle yards. If you want the best looking track then use wooden sleepers and individual chairs (for bullhead, at least, I've no experience of flat bottom). I use Exactoscale chairs and ply sleepers/timbers and have also used C&L chairs. It's not difficult because the gauges do all the precision work for you. You can get suitable gauges from several sources, e.g. Alan Gibson. As to pointwork, if you not built any before then one of the kits may be a good start but you should be able to graduate to making your own from scratch very soon. Filing the blades and crossing V may be daunting at first but you really don't need special jigs to do it. For the V, take a look at Brian Harrap's method, it's much easier than the more conventional approaches. Again, the gauges do the precision work for you. Use Templot to create your templates/plans and you can choose or create the required rail lengths and sleeper spacings for your chosen location and era. I see we've already had the suggestion to use Ultrascale wheels. They're excellent and I do use some of their drivers but lead times and cost are a serious consideration. Exactoscale wagon wheels are also excellent, though current availability is an issue and they are not cheap. There are cheaper and quite acceptable alternatives, though. Most Gibson wheels are fine, though now and then you'll find a wobbly or non-concentric one. Colin is usually happy to exchange defective ones and, at the price, you can probably afford to throw some away. Other makes are available... Most of my stock is kit built, but I have a few re-wheeled Bachmann examples that run well. Give them a try first just to have something to push through your new pointwork. For starting with brass kits and the luxury of springing, try this thread. You might also like to try putting sprung W irons under a plastic kit from Cooper Craft, Parkside Dundas, etc. Sprung W irons or complete underframes are available from Bill Bedford, Masokits and others. Societies are a personal thing, I'm not a member of either though I find the scalefour website worth a look now and then, otherwise RWweb serves most of my needs. Nick lots of good advice: thanks. I had seen that 'Handbuilt Track' thread, and many others. this site is such a good resource. I agree with your assessment of the look of different track types. don't get me wrong, I am constantly amazed by the quality of some layouts which are using even code 100 track, or even set track, but looking at the better options (visually) of code 75, 00-FS, EM and P4, it seems to be this sliding scale looking better and better. the look of sweeping track and especially points (with the better flangeways as you say) in P4 cannot be beaten. since returning to this hobby one thing that has bitten me more than I thought it would is the potential of photography, rather than just operation, so I'm going to aim as high as I can. I'm not 100% sure I will have the skill to pull off a P4 layout, but many of the things I've read have given me the confidence to at least have a go. I reckon it will cost less than 100 pounds to really get involved and see what I will need to be doing, and for the potential benefit of the look of the track I am very willing to pay that. as I said before as well, I'm happy to put the time in and work up to it slowly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fender Posted January 29, 2013 Author Share Posted January 29, 2013 Looking at http://www.scalefour.org/shows/scaleforum2009/bodmin.html Just looked up the nearest thing to a scale plan I have - you need 12.5 feet from the booking hall to the overbridge. you have (from your other threads) 4.5 metres - that's 14.75 ft in English money. That leaves only a couple of feet for a fiddle yard. If you want Bodmin general you'd realistically be looking at some selective compression, but I'm sure it can be done. I think you need at least a four foot fiddle yard otherwise you're going to be struggling to get long enough freights. But there's no reason it can't be done. And Bodmin has a helluva lot of fun stuff in that quite short length. To scale Ashburton is 11 ft from buffer stop to the first turnout, and Moretonhamstead is 25 ft or more. But back on topic - I have gone P4 because I want it to look the part. No matter how long it takes. I like the building - the operation can wait. I've been collecting tools and gauges over the past three years - now it's time I put them to use more. yep, I had resigned myself to a little compression. since the layout will be relatively narrow (at least I think 80cm would be the max, and it could be tapered towards one end) and since it will be designed to be portable (to allow guests to sleep in the room on accasion!) I may be able to put it at an angle across the room, which could cheat a little bit more length out of it. I had thought of a minimum of 1m for the fiddle yard (traverser). I couldn't get a full-length clay train in there (or anything near it!) but I anticipate having a bit more room when we move house again, and I'd rather put the length into the layout now and then add to the fiddle yard later if possible. yes, Bodmin looks very interesting operationally, the more I read about it, and I think I could get away with setting it over a few years in the 60s as I doubt there was much change to the station between dieselisation and its closure to passenger traffic. perhaps the coal saithes would have been removed? don't know. I agree on your last point too. I think this kind of project (taking on P4) requires a complete attitude adjustment on what I am willing to put in, and over what time scale, versus what I expect to get out of the hobby (both in terms of a hopefully nice layout and also in terms of the satisfaction of both building and having built a turnout, a wagon, a coach, converted a loco etc) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fender Posted January 29, 2013 Author Share Posted January 29, 2013 I see that due to illness there is some backlog at C&L. perhaps someone here could answer a couple of questions: 1. does anyone know if the turnout-in-a-bag kit contains turnout timbers/chairs as well? and if so, what type of chairs and timbers? are they ply and thick? 2. which gauges do I need to start with? the site lists a Back To Back Gauge for P4 as well as a Track Gauge. I assume I need both, but the Track Gauge is listed as S4. the measurements look the same, but I thought I should check. thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tender Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Hi Fender Like you i'm having my first dabble in P4. So far i've built a Martin Finney LSWR wagon and converted a Hornby Maunsell coach. Next is a Bill Bedford M7 chassis conversion. C&L do two turnout in a bag ranges, one with plastic timbers the other fron their Timber Tracks range. I have one of the later ready to build and have already made up some straight track using plastic chairs and ply timbers. The process is simplicity in itself. I purchased a set of gauges including a three point gauge from Alan Gibson Workshop as the P4 soc were out of stock of some at the time. I'll be going to Scalefour North and hope to meet other newcomers to the scale to compare notes etc. Good luck Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
10800 Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 You'll also need a flangeway gauge (for crossing clearances) and a check gauge (to ensure running rails and opposite check rails are set correctly). Track gauge is the same for P4 and S4 at 18.83mm (difference with S4 is only in the slightly finer crossings, but there is continuing confusion over the use as S4 as a standard and S4 as an abbreviation for Scalefour). Back to back should be between 17.67 and 17.75mm, preferably nearer the higher value. Whatever BB gauge you are thinking of getting, especially if second hand, measure it first if possible with a micrometer or calipers to make sure it is compliant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fender Posted January 29, 2013 Author Share Posted January 29, 2013 thanks for the clarification Rod. -------------------- Hi FenderLike you i'm having my first dabble in P4. So far i've built a Martin Finney LSWR wagon and converted a Hornby Maunsell coach.Next is a Bill Bedford M7 chassis conversion.C&L do two turnout in a bag ranges, one with plastic timbers the other fron their Timber Tracks range. I have one of the later ready to build and have already made up some straight track using plastic chairs and ply timbers. The process is simplicity in itself.I purchased a set of gauges including a three point gauge from Alan Gibson Workshop as the P4 soc were out of stock of some at the time.I'll be going to Scalefour North and hope to meet other newcomers to the scale to compare notes etc.Good luckRay. good to know. hmmmm...I suppose I'll be starting with the timber tracks turnout first then as I'd rather avoid the plastic ones if i can. if that's a success I'll see about building one, or at least a few parts of one, from scratch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 For locomotives Diesels are usually much easier to convert to P4 than Steam. Steam can be nightmarish depending on the valve gear/action (not even getting into compensation). Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 TimV of Clutton fame has converted at least one Bachman rtr small prairie to P4, and a pannier. What you need to check with locos before converting from 00 to P4 is that they perform as well as you want them to. Conversion to P4 does not improve the loco's running unless it corrects manufacturers error. Welcome to the fold. Gordon A Bristol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fender Posted January 30, 2013 Author Share Posted January 30, 2013 For locomotives Diesels are usually much easier to convert to P4 than Steam. Steam can be nightmarish depending on the valve gear/action (not even getting into compensation). Best, Pete. yes, it does all sound a bit daunting, that's why I've gone for the 'soft' option of modelling post dieselisation with the possibility of backtracking a few years if the skill-set permits it. TimV of Clutton fame has converted at least one Bachman rtr small prairie to P4, and a pannier. What you need to check with locos before converting from 00 to P4 is that they perform as well as you want them to. Conversion to P4 does not improve the loco's running unless it corrects manufacturers error. Welcome to the fold. Gordon A Bristol thanks. I was just reading a layout article on Evenstow in a Railway Modeller from last summer. They had a small prairie running on that which looked excellent. I've not found any photos of anything other than the 2-6-2s running into Bodmin General so at least I'll only have to learn how to convert one type of steam loco. ------ anyway, I've just ordered from C&L a turnout kit and a some sleepers and chairs for making a length of test track. hopefully they'll be able to get that sent out before too long. they're having some trouble at the moment. next I'll be ordering a set of gauges and it'll be a green light. just need to figure out which wagon to build/convert to P4 first. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndon Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Having decided to get back in to railway modelling last year and starting from scratch, I went straight for P4. Got a C&L turnout kit (one with plastic sleepers) which went together very easily and I've now put 5 together. First loco I converted was Hornby 08 with Ultrascale wheels which was much easier than I expected. I've since converted 5 other locos and don't regret going for P4 for a second... I'll also be at Scalefour North, my second visit. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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