RMweb Premium richierich Posted July 16, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) Saw this book in the Ian Allan bookshop in Manchester yesterday. Didn't get much time to look at it because had to catch my train, but its £23.99. It might have some reference material of value? Edited July 16, 2014 by richierich 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 I haven't been on to RMweb for over a year and, as others have said "wow - this thread has blown my socks off". But there's a more particular reason in my case. I am also modelling Millers Dale in N (nearly 10 years so far), and it's fascinating to see the design, the approach, the techniques that another has taken. Cav - have no fear that your efforts are being challenged. I'm modelling 1951 (i.e. mostly steam), and am quite some distance away (Sydney Australia!). And my abilities and standards are nothing like yours that are demonstrated here! I have somewhat more space - it's an L-shape, approx 14' by 9'. So I've included (on the Manchester side) Bridge 75 leading to the Chee Tor tunnel. And on the London end, I have the two MD viaducts, then I've skipped Litton and Cressbrook mills, but I have then included Headstone viaduct, leading into Headstone tunnel. (I'm frequently unimpressed by layouts where the river disappears into the backscene - it's very hard to make this at all convincing, IMHO. So, by including the downstream viaduct, the river will curve forward and exit at the front, if you know what I mean.) I will have only a token building at the front below the station (the ex-pub cottages), but I am including the village on the other side of the railway - the Anglers Rest, St Annes church, the mill on the river, and a couple of cottages. To fit this in to an L-shape, I have had to build the MD viaducts on a curve - you can imagine how this affects the dimensions of the 15 curved spans!! My approach was to draw these up in CAD and have a "skeleton" for each span laser-cut - and then manually built up into girders, etc. I also had the detailed 1905 strengthening overlay of the inner spans cut as an addition. I built the bulk of the baseboards in a similar manner to yours - plywood girders, and multi-level structures on the baseboards where the track is elevated. But the bridges are only now being filled in. The Headstone viaduct and the new MD viaduct were done a couple of years ago, the new MD viaduct was largely done earlier this year (I'm envious of your handrails!), and am now about to start painting Bridge 75. Landforms are largely in place (and river now poured, including floating weed), road in place, but vegetation (lots of trees!) not yet done. Photo of the MD viaducts loosely in place (without railing) is attached. Just FYI - please, no comparisons to Cav's efforts!! A comment on a couple of earlier points: I don't have detailed pictures of the buildings on platforms 2/3, and haven't started on them yet. I'm attaching the best plan that I have found (two halves plus poor quality, I'm afraid - original is in the Derbyshire Records Office in Matlock). Otherwise it will have to be the best guess from the various pictures that people have posted and various other similar ones that I have found The "large rhubarb" is a type of Gunnera and is large enough to be distinctive, even in 1:148. I'm planning (eventually) to draw up a sheet for etching - unless anyone else has one available? Will keep monitoring this thread!! Regards Rob Hi Rob, Thanks for contributing to the thread. Like you I find it interesting to see what others are doing with the same subject matter. We all have to redesign the prototypes in these situations and to see you curve the line around and include headstone tunnel is interesting. Even with the bridges on a tight curve it still has the atmosphere of the real location. My approach to modelling real locations is to get it as near to the correct plan and shape as I can in a given space, but thats I suppose my OCD on that type of thing. Of course in the space that I have I've had to drag litton and chee tor tunnels much closer to the station than in real life to create a scenic break, believe me I've thought of a million ideas of how to conceal a break without doing it but with no luck really. I think the tunnels will look the most natural way for the line. As for the station plans they look great, I am planning to go down to the archives in matlock so these are encouraging as to what I shall be able to find. Its only about 20mins in the car for me to drive there so a no brainer really. If you want copies of my CAD files for the handrails you're welcome to them, you would of course have to tweak them to match your bridges lengths but they'd be a start for you. The etched 'Rhubarb' sounds interesting too. The leaves on those things down there are massive and certainly significant in 1:148 scale. I wonder if there is a small leaf shape paper punch available which could cut them out for us? Saw this book in the Ian Allan bookshop in Manchester yesterday. Didn't get much time to look at it because had to catch my train, but its £23.99. It might have some reference material of value? I've been waiting to get my hands on that book, a trip to Matlock station beckons I think!! Cheers Rich Cav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rholgateau Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 A couple of further points... You mention the slight grade separation of the two viaducts? I also thought that it was hardly worth it - I've ignored the grade on the line, thinking that it would be invisible to an observer, with the scale of the rugged terrain. But one further thought has occurred to me: not only are the viaducts separated, but (I think) that Platforms 2 and 3 are slightly separated at the south end. There's certainly a dividing partition between the two halves of the platform there, and a couple of photos also indicate the separation of heights - for example, p 143 of Through Limestone Hills. Could be an interesting feature, esp as the platforms are at the same level at the north end? Re the subway - it was obviously the official way to cross between platforms, but I reckon that most passengers were likely to have walked over the tracks at the south end. But, in the 1980s, would imagine that would be frowned on? Guess that you'd need the subway, or even a footbridge?? I agree that the Platform 2/3 buildings are interesting and unusual (as far as one can see of them!). They were originally the main station buildings, but became the island platform after 1905 - hence the lack of windows on the Platform 2 side. TLH p140 has one of the few photos that I have found - others just have very distant or partial shots. And, yes please - would love to get a copy of the balustrade CAD file for the viaducts!! (how best to send the - do you want an email address?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted July 18, 2014 Author Share Posted July 18, 2014 (edited) I agree that the differing levels would make interestng topography however it doesnt lend itself to the way I have the track layout at the south end. The original track layout as you have it makes the two viaducts serve the up and down directions as seperate entities. In my reimagining the station has been rationalised to use the later built viaduct to carry both up and down traffic on the main line with the older arched viaduct carrying the avoiding loop and platform 3 traffic (still up and down traffic). This means however that the loop track has to split off the main just before the bridge leaving only a minor amount of room for the track to change level. I feel that it would be too much of a gradient and as a consequence look odd. As for the platforms I will still build the dividing wall between the two platforms to maybe imply the seperation that the different levels give in reality. Hopefully that will be interesting in its own right. I think you are right about the barrow crossing being off limits to passengers in the 80s. The subway will be the main point of travel from platform 1 to 2. The main station building is odd too here as there are no doorways on the car park side. Passengers would have had to have entered via the south end ramp and gone into the ticket office to buy a ticket. In the 80s most stations were barriered with ticket inspector booths so how they would have handled Millers Dale Im not sure. Maybe a building remodel with a door built in the car park side? Pm me your email and Ill send you the CADs. Edited July 18, 2014 by RBE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 (edited) Hi Cav, just popped in to see how your progressing mate, have you taken any show bookings yet? Bodge Edited July 18, 2014 by Andrew P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted July 18, 2014 Author Share Posted July 18, 2014 Hi Andy how youre feeling better. I havent taken bookings no as tbh I have no idea when Im likely to be in a position to run it. Time is very precious at the mo and I seen to get very little to dedicate to modellling. I was up at Millers Dale last weekend though so have the info to make the other end of the viaducts now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisis Rail Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Nearly 2 months since a post - thought I will give it a bump. Hopefully as the nights draw in there maybe more measured quality progress? No rush. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted September 13, 2014 Author Share Posted September 13, 2014 Thanks for the bump Ian. Its been a while. Im on a break at the mo as time is so precious Im struggling to get any modelling done. The frustration has made me lose my mojo a little and Ive ended up not really having much fun at all. Which really defeats the point. In an effort to regain interest I've back burnered the railway stuff at the mo in favour of other interests in the hope that a change is as good as a rest. As you say though now the nights are going to start drawing in I'm hoping that I'll get a little more modelling time. I just have a few other jobs to get done before jumping back onto MD in earnest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted September 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 13, 2014 Hi Cav, If it helps, the same thing happens to me about once a year! Although I have been doing odd things for the NGS and other projects it's all been computer based and I haven't had anything on the workbench since June but... so what? It's my time to enjoy as I wish. I am sure the mojo will return soon enough; for me it's usually seeing the real railway or a trip to a really inspirational show that does it.... cheers Ben A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted September 13, 2014 Author Share Posted September 13, 2014 Thanks Ben. Its good to see others go through it too. Up until a couple of months ago I've been pretty much 100% railways on the brain since 2010. Its been time for a little rest I think. I have been watching a few other threads to keep my appetite wetted. With Millers Dale I have been putting far too much pressure on myself to hit deadlines that dont need to exist. It a hobby after all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanStock Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Quite right - it's a hobby after all. My enthusiasm for 16mm live steam suddenly departed about three years ago, after an intense six-year 'discovery' period. I wonder if those two are connected. Anyway, it came rushing back this year - and I had the same experience with N gauge some time ago. It always does, eventually, and variety is the spice of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill badger Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 All sounds very familiar - I keep several projects on the go and tend to cycle through them to keep the interest going in all of them; some are weather dependent so tend to get the lion's share during the summer; to me the long, cold winter nights always seem to be the right time for a few hours modelling of an evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted September 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 14, 2014 I haven't been on to RMweb for over a year and, as others have said "wow - this thread has blown my socks off". But there's a more particular reason in my case. I am also modelling Millers Dale in N (nearly 10 years so far), and it's fascinating to see the design, the approach, the techniques that another has taken. Cav - have no fear that your efforts are being challenged. I'm modelling 1951 (i.e. mostly steam), and am quite some distance away (Sydney Australia!). And my abilities and standards are nothing like yours that are demonstrated here! I have somewhat more space - it's an L-shape, approx 14' by 9'. So I've included (on the Manchester side) Bridge 75 leading to the Chee Tor tunnel. And on the London end, I have the two MD viaducts, then I've skipped Litton and Cressbrook mills, but I have then included Headstone viaduct, leading into Headstone tunnel. (I'm frequently unimpressed by layouts where the river disappears into the backscene - it's very hard to make this at all convincing, IMHO. So, by including the downstream viaduct, the river will curve forward and exit at the front, if you know what I mean.) I will have only a token building at the front below the station (the ex-pub cottages), but I am including the village on the other side of the railway - the Anglers Rest, St Annes church, the mill on the river, and a couple of cottages. To fit this in to an L-shape, I have had to build the MD viaducts on a curve - you can imagine how this affects the dimensions of the 15 curved spans!! My approach was to draw these up in CAD and have a "skeleton" for each span laser-cut - and then manually built up into girders, etc. I also had the detailed 1905 strengthening overlay of the inner spans cut as an addition. I built the bulk of the baseboards in a similar manner to yours - plywood girders, and multi-level structures on the baseboards where the track is elevated. But the bridges are only now being filled in. The Headstone viaduct and the new MD viaduct were done a couple of years ago, the new MD viaduct was largely done earlier this year (I'm envious of your handrails!), and am now about to start painting Bridge 75. Landforms are largely in place (and river now poured, including floating weed), road in place, but vegetation (lots of trees!) not yet done. Photo of the MD viaducts loosely in place (without railing) is attached. Just FYI - please, no comparisons to Cav's efforts!! A comment on a couple of earlier points: I don't have detailed pictures of the buildings on platforms 2/3, and haven't started on them yet. I'm attaching the best plan that I have found (two halves plus poor quality, I'm afraid - original is in the Derbyshire Records Office in Matlock). Otherwise it will have to be the best guess from the various pictures that people have posted and various other similar ones that I have found The "large rhubarb" is a type of Gunnera and is large enough to be distinctive, even in 1:148. I'm planning (eventually) to draw up a sheet for etching - unless anyone else has one available? Will keep monitoring this thread!! Regards Rob Any chance of a thread on this layout? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted September 26, 2014 Author Share Posted September 26, 2014 Ok so not much to show but thought I might bump the thread with a revision to the track plan. Now that the mainline has been extended to the left to give a little breathing room to the crossovers and such I have revisited the facing point into the yard. In order to make the entrance a little more prototypical I've switched it to a trailing (as it was in the steam days in any case) and made the yard a lot simpler without the double slip. I feel the trackplan now looks a little more 1980's than it did. I have also designed the fiddle yard on Anyrail as this will be rtr track and dropped it into the Templot model to show how I plan to route trains in there for all you fiddle yard fans. You may notice the spur to the left on the hidden return curve. This is for a possible future extension to the Buxton Low level (midland) station again rationalised as an 'in the 80's' layout. I am keen for one of the Millers Dale crew to take this on but who knows!! It would make a nice addition to the main layout at the bigger shows!! As always any comments are very welcome. There will be some more modelling done soon I promise!! Cav 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted September 26, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 26, 2014 Hi Cav, It would look better (and run better) with a longer transition zone between the front gentle curve and the sharp end curve on the right. Likewise on the left if the junction is visible. See: http://rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=652671#p652671 Martin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted September 26, 2014 Author Share Posted September 26, 2014 I agree Martin however both return curves will be hidden under hillside with enough 'straight' track in the tunnel to hide coach turn. I have kept the straightish bits as long as I can to allow the visible prototype section to be as accurate as possible. Nether the junction or any of the tight curves are visible. I agree it may well run better with a littl more transition though Im not sure I have room to do it as its a tight fit as it is. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Hi Cav, glad to see your back at it, I like the idea of the Buxton Extension and the extra bit of length has certainly helped enormously. Any more pics due soon? All the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted September 26, 2014 Author Share Posted September 26, 2014 Im keen for the Buxton extension to happen but time will tell. Im planning some modelling soon so photos will follow! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mason Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Glad your back on it mate Plan looks great too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted September 26, 2014 Author Share Posted September 26, 2014 Yeah the one for Buxton looks good too. haha 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mason Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Haha yeah that's on my to do list after 2 N gauge, s 00 and Barton haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornish trains jez Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Nice to see you back in the modelling chair. Extension looks great and will add extra interest. Best regards, Jeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted September 26, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 26, 2014 Hi Cav, Just catching up with the thread - I haven't looked in for a few months. As my buddy says - the bridge is "mint". We all go through a lack of mojo for awhile - especially with young family - without any doubt or question, it has to take priority. Hopefully, you'll gradually find the time to get back onto the layout. Best regards to you and Jodie and the rest of the Cav clan! Cheers, Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielB Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I'm liking the new plan Cav, much more room for some lovely looking scenery. Plus Buxton low level WOULD be nice... *coughMasoncough* I still plan for Peak Forest to happen at some point mate, once my USA stuff has gotten to a point I'm happy with. And lets face it, setting all three up at an exhibition with the Millers Dale Triangle linking them all would be AWESOME. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mason Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I'm liking the new plan Cav, much more room for some lovely looking scenery. Plus Buxton low level WOULD be nice... *coughMasoncough* I still plan for Peak Forest to happen at some point mate, once my USA stuff has gotten to a point I'm happy with. And lets face it, setting all three up at an exhibition with the Millers Dale Triangle linking them all would be AWESOME. SSSHHH Dan its bad enough Cav keeps pushing it hahahaha As soon as i get the other 4 customer layouts built i might get on it by 2016 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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