Bachmann announce Mk2f's

[G-BOAF]

3 minutes ago, uk_pm said:

Goodness; I had no idea my post would inspire such high-level intellectual debate.  I am intrigued by "ohmic heating" (which sounds like something HM Government might espouse in the face of the energy crisis).  I still prefer my original theory, which is that I had failed to ensure the metal-on-metal bearings were properly lubricated, and so heat built up as the coaches tore their way around my layout - sometimes for hours on end (whilst I looked on, oblivious to the dangers!). That would explain why (a) the rake felt heavy and (slightly) resistant to movement and (b) only 3 bogies out of 22 were affected.  

 

Nonetheless, I am astonished that such heat can have been generated.  It will, of course, have been transmitted very effectively by the metal pick-ups which stretch the length of the bogie and up into the coach body.  

 

I think the moral of the story is that good lubrication is as essential in OO as it is on the real railway.   

But is it really a good idea to lubricate surfaces that are serving as electrical contact? Even with conductive lube, dirt will build up and cause electrical continuity problems. 

Bachmann don't recommend lubricating, hence my suggestion that the back to backs or axle lengths could have been a bit wide, causing friction and heat on certain wheels/bogies.

[uk_pm]

11 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

But is it really a good idea to lubricate surfaces that are serving as electrical contact? Even with conductive lube, dirt will build up and cause electrical continuity problems. 

Bachmann don't recommend lubricating, hence my suggestion that the back to backs or axle lengths could have been a bit wide, causing friction and heat on certain wheels/bogies.

I'm so sorry.  When I read your original post I couldn't for the life of me work out what b2b meant.  it's obvious now, and a very interesting thing for me to check.  I won't be able to do it until the weekend, but will report my findings when I do.  Thanks for an excellent suggestion.  

[G-BOAF]

9 hours ago, uk_pm said:

I'm so sorry.  When I read your original post I couldn't for the life of me work out what b2b meant.  it's obvious now, and a very interesting thing for me to check.  I won't be able to do it until the weekend, but will report my findings when I do.  Thanks for an excellent suggestion.  

Sorry for speaking in acronyms; just been at a major acronym-laden international conference. I also realise b2b normally means business to business.

[adb968008]

Its not something ive seen before, but I have seen that if something reflective  can focus like a prism on an object it can melt it even in light sunlight.

 

Like a model which melted the plastic body when a bottle placed by a window reflected sunlight on it, for about 2-3 minutes.. thats all it took.

[dj_crisp]

On 21/11/2022 at 11:09, G-BOAF said:

But is it really a good idea to lubricate surfaces that are serving as electrical contact? Even with conductive lube, dirt will build up and cause electrical continuity problems. 

Bachmann don't recommend lubricating, hence my suggestion that the back to backs or axle lengths could have been a bit wide, causing friction and heat on certain wheels/bogies.

 

Agree with this. 

 

Will be interested in further photos of the stricken bogie!

[G-BOAF]

21 minutes ago, dj_crisp said:

 

Agree with this. 

 

Will be interested in further photos of the stricken bogie!

of course no way of being sure that heat build up might not have spread a wheel/axle set, but given @uk_pm did mention the rake seeming a bit 'heavy' I do wonder if there was more drag that caused heat build up, and an out of gauge axle would be a prime cause

Edited November 22, 2022 by G-BOAF

[andyman7]

On 21/11/2022 at 11:03, uk_pm said:

Goodness; I had no idea my post would inspire such high-level intellectual debate.  I am intrigued by "ohmic heating" (which sounds like something HM Government might espouse in the face of the energy crisis).  I still prefer my original theory, which is that I had failed to ensure the metal-on-metal bearings were properly lubricated, and so heat built up as the coaches tore their way around my layout - sometimes for hours on end (whilst I looked on, oblivious to the dangers!). That would explain why (a) the rake felt heavy and (slightly) resistant to movement and (b) only 3 bogies out of 22 were affected.  

 

Nonetheless, I am astonished that such heat can have been generated.  It will, of course, have been transmitted very effectively by the metal pick-ups which stretch the length of the bogie and up into the coach body.  

 

I think the moral of the story is that good lubrication is as essential in OO as it is on the real railway.   

 

On 21/11/2022 at 11:09, G-BOAF said:

But is it really a good idea to lubricate surfaces that are serving as electrical contact? Even with conductive lube, dirt will build up and cause electrical continuity problems. 

Bachmann don't recommend lubricating, hence my suggestion that the back to backs or axle lengths could have been a bit wide, causing friction and heat on certain wheels/bogies.

I do think the the critical factor is the continuous high speed running for a couple of hours plus. Whilst I'm sure many would argue that the model should cope with this I think that such use will in practice apply to only a tiny number of these models.

[letterspider]

I have my models running for 4 hours and have not seen anything like this, albeit at lower scale speed of 80mph

[ThaneofFife]

possibly faulty coach. 

[G-BOAF]

A bit of variety for you folk on here.

Below is a picture of two Mk2fs, the CDL lights are turned on, but on one side of the rake only.

However as you can see these two coaches are coupled 'roof hatch to roof hatch'. Thanks to info kindly supplied by Bachmann, I have reversed the A and B CDL sides on my Virgin TSO. Hopefully they won't mind me sharing more widely, but at your own risk obviously!

 

Prototypically it is unusual that all coaches in a rake are facing in the same 'direction'; there is a picture in Michael Harris' Mk2 book of a recently refurbished cross country set on test run for Horbury with coaches in different directions, so even newly 'shopped' sets were not uniformly aligned (yes new from Derby they almost certainly would have been). This will also help if you want to run a brake van 'reversed' in a rake.

My main motivation was from a model detail perspective, as I wanted to appreciate the different underframe detail on each side in the same view!

As factory supplied: CV39 = 64, CV40=128

To reverse sides: CV39=128, CV40=64.

 

All very simple logic. If you want to use the tail light in this new configuration, it too will need to be reversed by changing CV29=6 (as supplied) to CV29=7

Hope this helps one or more readers.

Edited November 23, 2022 by G-BOAF

[Zunnan]

On 21/11/2022 at 09:08, 55020 said:

Damn, I have AC flowing through metal all over my house.  220 - 240V of it with really high currents.  If low voltage, low current DCC can cause such heating I do hope the "induced electrical current" doesn't cause ohmic heating in my home.  😉

 

Thanks goodness my Masters level Engineering says it is all safe.

 

My oldschool 236 'C' and Building Services diploma, plus years as an electrical tech says the wiring in your home does heat up. But your Masters hunch is right, its perfectly safe as long as the installation is in accordance with the regs. 😇

 

Once you insert DIY into the equation, all bets are off though! I've seen home brew security lighting installs which would make your toenails curl. Six...SIX 400W halogen lights in three twin banks on PIR detectors. Plus the 0.75mm(!!!) cable feeding that lot was buried through 5m of loft insulation. And they wondered why they had problems when just two sets of lights were triggered...

 

I think the clue with the melted bogie is mention of the rake being heavy. Most likely friction from one or more of those shallow conical axle ends having a bearing face not on the pointy end but further outwards on the cone. But refracted light is certainly another possibility, we burned a hole in a washing up liquid bottle once with a water filled vase left to soak on the kitchen worktop which caught the sun.

[jonathan452]

On 28/07/2022 at 10:45, adb968008 said:

Heljans not yet announced an 86/2, so i’d guess its at least 2 years before we see it, even if Bachmann did mk2f’s… of course the wild card could be an all new Bachmann class 86.

 

my thought is buy the Anglia dbso now, and squirrel it away, by the time all the pieces of this puzzle are available, the dbso could be the hardest piece to find.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you have not done so already you may want to look at the latest addition to the Heljan thread.

[ThaneofFife]

Asked one of the reps if there has been much call for a rerun of blue greys and they are aware but the cycle is approx 3 or 4 years from the original run. At leaat they are on their radar.

[WCML100]

Confirmed today from one of the Bachmann reps that Anglia and any other liveries not done yet will be done some time in the future.

 

I imagine next run being Anglia, ATW, and a third more unusual livery (maybe northern belle or something) then back to BR blue the following batch…

[uk_pm]

I have attached further photos of my heat-damaged Mk 2f BSO.  The heat transferred to the under frame can be clearly seen (and it was the resulting deformation which impeded the close coupling mechanism and caused the initial derailment).  Also visible is that the heat transferred to the axle, causing it to melt and deform (indeed, that particular wheel is now stuck fast amidst melted plastic).  I noted yesterday that the second bogie on that coach is also deformed, and that the affected axle appears to be slightly wide (although the wheels turn quite freely in their bearings).  

 

I am not able to reach any firm conclusions - other than that significant heat has been generated in both bogies of this particular coach (and in one bogie of an FO in the same rake).  I think the most likely culprit is prolonged running at speed with poor lubrication.  But I agree that lubrication has its downsides in an electrically conductive axle/bearing.  

 

Any other views?

 

 

[ThaneofFife]

With 4 pick ups on one side i doubt a little lube is gunna cause conductivity issues.......hopefully you can now move on from this.

[uk_pm]

59 minutes ago, ThaneofFife said:

With 4 pick ups on one side i doubt a little lube is gunna cause conductivity issues.......hopefully you can now move on from this.

I have moved on!  The defective parts have been replaced, and the coach is back in service.  I have posted the further pictures because I was asked to, and the topic as a whole is interesting - principally because it provides a reminder that the laws of physics apply as much in OO as they do to the real thing.  

[ThaneofFife]

Youve misunderstood me.   I mean move onwards and upwards from the damage caused to this model.

[The Black Hat]

On 26/11/2022 at 20:52, WCML100 said:

Confirmed today from one of the Bachmann reps that Anglia and any other liveries not done yet will be done some time in the future.

 

I imagine next run being Anglia, ATW, and a third more unusual livery (maybe northern belle or something) then back to BR blue the following batch…

Ones Id suggest would be: 

Anglia
Arriva 
EWS Railtour maroon set. 
Saphos Maroon and Cream
Blue and Grey railtour set

Collectors club: Blue Pullman. 

Edited November 28, 2022 by The Black Hat

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, The Black Hat said:

Ones Id suggest would be: 

Anglia
Arriva 
EWS Railtour maroon set. 
Saphos Maroon and Cream
Blue and Grey railtour set

Collectors club: Blue Pullman. 

Plus one from me on the bold ones.

 

As the Anglia dbso is done, i guess its just a matter of time for the others.

 

A Saphos railtour set to go with D213,  47828*, 47712 would be good, as well as the LSL steam fleet.

 

Blue/Grey railtour set would reminisce nicely with the 86’s on WCML services two months back, but with any number of other railtour locos.

 

i suspect several people may have a beanstalk if a blue grey railtour set emerges before 1970/80’s blue greys though.

 

* needs forward dating,

Edited November 28, 2022 by adb968008

[G-BOAF]

I'd buy quite a few blue/grey railtour coachea and a few bodyshells to relivery my purchases to date (ic and vt)...

[G-BOAF]

Am I right in thinking that once re-addressed to anything other than default 3, these coaches won't work on DC? Or have I missed something else up?

I readdressed all the rake to 9526 (number of the BSO) and since then they won't work on my 9v battery on display shelf.

[ThaneofFife]

Regarding the dcc tail lamps on these when did BR start to pull the oil lamps and fit flashing lamps?

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, ThaneofFife said:

Regarding the dcc tail lamps on these when did BR start to pull the oil lamps and fit flashing lamps?

Late 1980’s..

Edited December 4, 2022 by adb968008

[XChris]

I think it would be good to see a spirit of the lakes set, come out? That would look very nice! And I like the idea of the Arriva wales livery, anglia and the blue Pullman colours, they would all fit into my early 2010’s Pathfinder rake! Although some north Britton coaches wouldn’t go a miss there either…