69843 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Just received my first subscription locos - Mallard, Coronation and Flying Scotsman. Very exciting! I've not opened them yet, but at first sight the name plate on the Scotsman looks a bit dodgy - printing a bit low. Overall, they look good, though. I'd be very interested to see the firebox on Scotsman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiffy2 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I've had a couple of cups of coffee and a closer look. Mallard - FUBAR. A bogie wheel off, the bogie bent up into the body, the bogie link seems to be cast metal, it broke when I tried to bend it into position... Not good enough, though I can fix it easily enough for a static model (and the motion is better than the first one I bought), Joe Public wouldn't like that. The printing may be slightly better - the white curved lining behind the smoke box is slightly closer to where it should be, and the LNER on the tender looks central. Will cannabalise the first to remake the second. Coronation - all looks good except there's no way of connecting the tender to the loco. I suppose that doesn't matter if you never take it off the base, and as a static model it's easily fixed. But still... Would look very good in wartime black. Scotsman - well, I dunno. It's a strange bodyshell with some moulding marks on the steam dome. Easily fixed, but it's a sort of semi-gloss finish - looks like the original plastic moulding is unpainted. At least it has a tender (corridor) connection. The handrails and pipework are moulded on à la Triang, but it has the speedo nicely moulded on the rear driver. Very nicely printed lining and lettering, apart from the nameplate which is pants. I also received two DVDs, 'Preserved Locos of the Southern Railway' and ditto LMS. Abut to look at them now. From normal viewing distances, and with a bit of fettling, they will make decent enough display models or background scenery. Looking forward to the 28xx and whatever comes with it (hopefully some more of my 'free gifts')! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiffy2 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Hi Smiffy - please could we have some pictures of the 4472 model if possible, please? This one is particularly relevant to my modelling interests and, as above, has potential for a lot of modelling provided the details are right. Yup. Will get on it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
69843 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Goodmorning All, Thank you for the rundown on the Scotsman. But Oh Dear !! - from what you say I think we can assume that in this case GBL have copied an old ex Triang Hornby model if the handrails etc. are moulded on. This might well mean a few dimensional errors also. I feel sorry for those who held out high hopes for this one as it will mean a lot more work to make a decent model - there is perhaps one good thing though - remember the good old days when we carved off the moulded handrails etc from many a RTR body on the way to a better model - days we thought were behind us since the advent of the super detailed model - although perhaps a small threat raised its head with design clever - well it could be back !. Perhaps we will enjoy re-learning the old skills. Time to sharpen the Swann Morton perhaps!. Regards to All I have a feeling he might be referring to it being like a Tri-Ang model, and not actually based off of one. Easy mistake. I made the same assumption when I first read it through, and had to re-read it to get that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiffy2 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) Edited March 12, 2014 by Smiffy2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiffy2 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Now - can I just cut those smoke deflectors off without being utterly anachronistic? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiffy2 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I have a feeling he might be referring to it being like a Tri-Ang model, and not actually based off of one. Easy mistake. I made the same assumption when I first read it through, and had to re-read it to get that. The clue was in the à la part. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
69843 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Hmmm....most disappointing looking of the three so far. Hoping the rest of the models, including the WC/BoB, are up to scratch, as I have a few grand ideas for them. SR 4-6-4T or 2-8-2 anyone? No? How about a 5MT 4-6-4T? MR 4-6-0 Compound? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimbus Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Thanks for taking the time to post these. Sadly, it looks like they've added some of their own creativity this time - there's something decidedly iffy about the boiler proportions which isn't inherited from Hornby. Your shot from above shows the taper starts 'somewhere' in front of the boiler band at the firebox tubeplate, and ends just behind the centre driving axle, instead of the next boiler band forward. I get the uneasy impression that the top line of the firebox is too level. The moulding marks you mentioned are because they've gone for a simpler moulding than modern Hornby, with the mould join along the top centreline of the boiler - Hornby split their boiler along its horizontal centreline. We've not been as lucky with this one, I think, despite quite a lot of impressive effort. Correcting the boiler will be major structural re-work. The Nim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimbus Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Hmmm....most disappointing looking of the three so far. Hoping the rest of the models, including the WC/BoB, are up to scratch, as I have a few grand ideas for them. SR 4-6-4T or 2-8-2 anyone? No? How about a 5MT 4-6-4T? MR 4-6-0 Compound? Wouldn't it be fun if they beat Hornby to the un-rebuilt MN? Would cause a rash of spare Hornby bodies on eBay, methinks! The Nim. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Corbs Posted March 12, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 12, 2014 Hmmm....most disappointing looking of the three so far. Hoping the rest of the models, including the WC/BoB, are up to scratch, as I have a few grand ideas for them. SR 4-6-4T or 2-8-2 anyone? No? How about a 5MT 4-6-4T? MR 4-6-0 Compound? Graeme King did a rather superb SR 2-8-2 from the Dapol kit.... and it ran! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 What a strange moulding. The difference in the boiler taper is down to the model copying a Hornby 4472 fitted with the A4 type boiler - you can tell this by the position of the washout plugs. The moulded handrails everywhere are a bitter disappointment to be honest, particularly after Mallards plastic, separately fitted sets. The model looks like something in between the Hornby super detail NRM model and the (current) Railroad range 4472 of 2012. The curved cab sides and high sided cut outs and glazing are good but I think there's just too much to do to make a good A3 from that. Ill be sticking to my Railroad A1 into A3 conversions I suspect. A shame, but for a tenner it's still a nice looking static display model - and it's not really aimed at us modellers anyway. I will still get one to muse over - perhaps one 4472 model can be used as a master towards resin copies, but being fitted with the A4 and not A3 boiler is the main sticking point for me. Leaves too much to do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium CloggyDog Posted March 12, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 12, 2014 Scotsman on the way... Cool. Scalpels, saws, etc all ready and waiting. I'll be doing what the NRM should have done with the real thing by recreating a Thompson A1/1 *evil cackle* 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Corbs Posted March 12, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 12, 2014 Heh heh heh. Surely must be worth a shot just for some of the parts that can be gleaned from it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimbus Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 What a strange moulding. The difference in the boiler taper is down to the model copying a Hornby 4472 fitted with the A4 type boiler - you can tell this by the position of the washout plugs. No, that's not it. Hornby's NRM Scotsman had the boiler taper start and finish at the boiler bands, correct for that application. When they did a BR dia107 (Sandwich), they just moved the boiler band forward and left the taper transition where it was at the firebox, so that was incorrect. If only I could find mine, I'd have dropped a comparison photo in here... This model strangely has the firebox-boiler taper transition in about the right place for a BR dia107, but the boiler band shifted back to Scotsman's untypical 'preserved' position. They've also put the taper-parallel transition through the steam collector, which should sit entirely on the taper ring. Coincidentally, I've just ordered the Thompson A1/1 boiler clothing drawings from the NRM, so I can get this right on one of my Finney kits. It'll be a nice place to start practising etch design. The Nim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) If they've copied the Tri-ang Hornby model, they sorted out the odd proportions of the front end of the running plate. They seem to have copied (Tri-ang) Hornby's valvegear however. The return crank is in the wrong position on both sides. We can possibly let the dodgy quartering (should that be 'thirding' on a three cylinder locomotive?) pass, as you can only see one side at a time. Is it a photographic effect or is the tender a different shade from the locomotive? Perhaps it's a result of the locomotive lining being simplified to white and the tender to black. All in all, I think I'll give this one a miss and stick with the two Tri-ang/Hornby ones I have' I trust the 28xx will be better! Edited March 12, 2014 by Il Grifone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiffy2 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Is it a photographic effect or is the tender a different shade from the locomotive? Perhaps it's a result of the locomotive lining being simplified to white and the tender to black. I don't think it is a photo effect. The loco is moulded in green and self-coloured, the tender is moulded in black and painted. On the original photos (in sunlight) it's noticeable, less so in artificial light, but once you know... The smoke deflectors put up a fight, but I beat 'em. Interestingly they were located with four pins in holes each side, only two of which had glue in them. A bit of cutting and filling required, but #1 son has nicked my Milliput... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 From this link here. Compared to: From Smiffy's post above. Looks like an exact match for 4472 using the A4 boiler to me. The proportions look spot on. Bear in mind that the A4 boiler fitted to Scotsman had quite a bit of bodging for the washout plug to boiler band relationship . It's not the same as on proper diagram 107 boilers fitted to the A3s in service. I think the idea this copied a Triang Scotsman is wrong - the moulded handrails on cab and lower firebox sides match the Railroad Scotsman model very well. The toolmakers for this one just applied the same design ethos to the boiler handrails, annoyingly. In fact I am pretty certain the tender is copied almost directly from either the Railroad Scotsman tender (shown below) or Hornby's super detail one. Two clear influences - the NRM 4472 model and the 2012 release Railroad range 4472 model. It's been heavily simplified by the pattern maker to make assembly easier. I note that the model's running plate looks like it is separate from the cab and boiler…? If so, there may be hope yet... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
West_riding Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Can I just check, did other subscribers get one or two DVDs! I only got one for the SR and was expecting two. Will give their customer help line tomorrow if I'm missing one Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I only got one DVD. I think Iread somewhere that the will arrive one at a time. Churchward 2-8-0 in issue 4. Not bad at all Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Re the GBL A3 tender, can anyone confirm if its dimensions match the NRM Superdetail version or the old Railroad overwide tender drive body please?. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spet0114 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) Looks like an exact match for 4472 using the A4 boiler to me.... ....except for the interesting addition of vacuum brakes, producing an apple-green Scotsman with double chimney, A4 boiler and vac. brakes - a combination never carried by the prototype. Repainted in BR Green however, it'd be a close match to the real loco's condition in the early 90s. Edited March 12, 2014 by spet0114 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) Very visibly not a copy of the Triang Hornby Scotsman in an way. Are the moulded handrails such a big problem anyway - would most of us really be satisfied with the paint colour / finish (or is it bare plastic) and the single white lining of the boiler bands? If a repaint is in the offing, then handrail removal isn't such a hardship. It always used to be part of the necessary upgrade on RTR locos, and this moulding is CHEAP. Is the tender the same green as the loco? Doesn't look the same to me but my eyes may be fooled by the contrasts of the lining - Margate style white-only on the loco, somewhat Trix-esque black-only on the tender!? How wide is that tender body over the sidesheets by the way please? Is it a true 36mm max, or has the bloated body width of the old tender-drive units been copied. Fancy seeing the Bulleid 2-8-2 breaking the surface here! Well I never...... Edited March 13, 2014 by gr.king Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiffy2 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Can I just check, did other subscribers get one or two DVDs! I only got one for the SR and was expecting two. Will give their customer help line tomorrow if I'm missing one I got two. And three locos, so a month-and-a-half's worth. I wonder what I'll get next month (when I'm away in France...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiffy2 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Is the tender the same gree as the loco? Doesn't look the same to me but my eyes may be folled by the contrasts of the lining - Margate style white-only on the loco, somewhat Trix-esque black-only on the tender!? How wide is that tender body over the sidesheets by the way please? Is it a true 36mm max, or has the bloated body width of the old tender-drive units been copied. Colour - see above. I think there's a slight difference as the tender seems to be painted and the body self-coloured. The tender is 35.53mm at the widest point at the front, slightly less at the rear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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