Great British Locomotives

[PhilJ W]

Are they copies of another company's products? If you are producing a copy of the same prototype in the same scale of course they should be identical. The only way you can be sure that it is a copy is if an obvious error is replicated. A few years ago the Ordnance Survey suspected that Bartholemews were copying their maps, to prove their case they deliberately introduced minor errors which were duly copied and they promptly sued for breach of copyright.

Edited March 14, 2014 by PhilJ W

[S.A.C Martin]

Ugly ducklings can become beautiful swans...all I am saying for the moment, I'll let mine and other people's modelling do the talking in due course.

 

For me I see these models as a cheap way into the actual modelling side of the hobby: repaints, weathering, motorising and even conversions into other classes and flights of fancy possible.

 

If you are a parent with a train mad creative kid, these are like gold dust frankly because they don't cost the earth and they more or less look like the locos they're meant to be.

 

Cheap as chips, widely available and, granted, not perfect. But such a good starting point for someone to be creative and do something really creative.

 

Anyone who was expecting perfection at £3.99, £5.99 or £8.99 is perhaps missing the point, and those decrying their quality have perhaps missed the potential they provide for some fun.

 

Now, I'm off to finish fitting some handrails to my A4 conversions, which will be primed in due course for a coat of bugatti blue...for the more serious modellers among us the A4s have their uses and certainly if you were considering repaints and cut and shuts anyway, give a much cheaper alternative to spare Hornby parts on eBay. Just a thought!

[micklner]

Lets be realistic they are cheap and useful for spares , if Hornby actually sold body parts as spares then they might   have something to moan about .

How many kids trains stay on the track for more than a couple of minutes ?

[30801]

Are they copies of another company's products? If you are producing a copy of the same prototype in the same scale of course they should be identical. The only way you can be sure that it is a copy is if an obvious error is replicated. A few years ago the Ordnance Survey suspected that Bartholemews were copying their maps, to prove their case they deliberately introduced minor errors which were duly copied and they promptly sued for breach of copyright.

Such a deliberate error is called a 'Mountweazel' which is one of my favourite words ever.

 

The fact that the partwork Mallard has flangeless wheels on the cartazzi truck makes it look a bit Hornby. It's not like they expect it to negotiate 2nd radius curves.

[big jim]

If the kids buy them and are creative and improve them then they are going to be very upset when they come to put their new loco on the shed road only to find it is narrow gauge and just falls off the track.

 

not as upset as they will be when they realise the metal wheel "rig" will short out the electrics

[S.A.C Martin]

 

The valances have been removed since this picture was taken, the new resin single chimney and the top of the casing have been fixed down and sorted out, and all the handrails have been fitted, and the model is in primer grey - but I thought these pictures before that work occurred might show a little of the potential these Mallard models have.

 

 

The brass Maygib buffers (which are sprung) in particular, combined with sorting out the front buffer beam apron, are vast improvements on Hornby's front end.

 

This model is destined to become 60006 Sir Ralph Wedgwood.

[S.A.C Martin]

Am I the only one who finds this whole practice tantamount to piracy? 

CHRIS LEIGH

 

Absolutely, it is wrong. However I'm not as a modeller going to look a gift horse in the mouth. The A4 in particular has a lot of modelling potential. Lord knows, if they do actually make a Butler-Henderson model then all and sundry will be buying those just for the tender body - used on a number of other ex-LNER classes…!

 

I'm not condoning it at all, and perhaps ironically I am indirectly supporting it through purchases. They do present an opportunity for some modelling which is the aim of the game at the end of the day.

[Horsetan]

Therefore modelling = hypocrisy.

[melmerby]

Am I the only one who finds this whole practice tantamount to piracy? 

CHRIS LEIGH

They are interestingly produced in association with the NRM, who in many cases have the prototype loco in their collection.

Pity they couldn't have run a tape measure over the 12"/ foot versions!

 

Keith

[melmerby]

What exactly are these models made of?

 

Plastic body?

Die cast wheel sets?

 

Keith

[micklner]

What exactly are these models made of?

 

Plastic body?

Die cast wheel sets?

 

Keith

Yes to both, wheels are dire. On A4 fixed drivers on a ladder type casting, remainder stub axles

[PhilJ W]

I was not expecting perfection for the price but it would be nice if they were made to the gauge they claim to be. If the kids buy them and are creative and improve them then they are going to be very upset when they come to put their new loco on the shed road only to find it is narrow gauge and just falls off the track.

 

 

not as upset as they will be when they realise the metal wheel "rig" will short out the electrics

The answers simple, cut the metal wheel rig down the centre and insert a piece of plastic, re-gauged and insulated all in one go.

[TheQ]

Of course it is possible that the maker of these molds, could be working from the original but under the same or even more pressures as the mold makers for Hornby or Bachmann, cost! So there will be similar compromises.

The Q

[Adams442T]

A few years ago the Ordnance Survey suspected that Bartholemews were copying their maps, to prove their case they deliberately introduced minor errors which were duly copied and they promptly sued for breach of copyright.

 

In fact, having worked at OS for some time in the 60s, I can say that the 'deliberate error' records (very 'secret squirrel' and only available to senior management and senior civil servants, usually when an infringement case was being considered) had apparently been running since before 1900! 

 

So secret in fact that most evidence was shown to Judges 'in camera' and subsequently infringement damages paid without a court case.

Edited March 14, 2014 by Adams442T

[69843]

They are interestingly produced in association with the NRM, who in many cases have the prototype loco in their collection.

Pity they couldn't have run a tape measure over the 12"/ foot versions!

 

Keith

I don't know if they are actually doing it in association with the NRM. Certainly issue 1 has the NRM logo, issue 2 doesn't seem to, and issue 3 does! All a little odd.

[pete_mcfarlane]

In fact, having worked at OS for some time in the 60s, I can say that the 'deliberate error' records (very 'secret squirrel' and only available to senior management and senior civil servants, usually when an infringement case was being considered) had apparently been running since before 1900! 

 

So secret in fact that most evidence was shown to Judges 'in camera' and subsequently infringement damages paid without a court case.

Must remember that for next time I get lost in the countryside. There was a deliberate error in the map, and it's not my dodgy map reading ;-)

 

As for the models, it is telling that all of the models have been available from other sources in shape or another. I'd expect an actual list of Great British Locos to include all sorts of things that have never seen the light of day in RTR - GWR broad gauge stuff, LNWR DX goods, Lion, LBSC I3, SECR D Class, Midland Spinners, Hardwicke, the list goes on. 

[Dan Hill]

A question already answered:

Ah right thanks. Quite a lot of issues then. Still there's many models I'm looking forward too such as Rocket and Locomotion which aren't currently available in RTR.

Edited March 15, 2014 by Dan Hill

[Smiffy2]

Strange.

I used the gap between Australia FP3 and Qualifying to do a bit of work on Mallard and Scotsman. Mallard was mostly replacing the utterly naff chassis with the slightly less and the broken bogie with a more-or-less intact one. That was OK.

Then I started a bit of detailed painting, on the tender sideframes (shiny black plastic) with Humbrol acrylic dirty black. Fine. Then I tried to repaint the black paintwork at the top of the tender and the paint wouldn't take at all - globulised and shrank. Which I have never seen with Humbrol paint before - but I've not much experience of the acrylics.

 

Intrigued I tried a bit on the smokebox of the Scotsman where the smoke deflectors used to be (nasty glue mess under there) and the same happened. Which was annoying. I suspect the answer is to either slap on some undercoat or enamel flat black, but still, what's in that paint finish? Wax?

 

So now I've got an A4 that looks quite like an A4 (and all other things being equal might become wartime black, if Humbrol can manage a paint that actually sticks) and an almost complete A3 with a dodgy smokebox. I really can't get over having white lining on the loco and black on the tender so perhaps 1943 beckons there, as well.

 

Any advice on sourcing waterslide transfers for those options?

[TheCuckoo]

... if Humbrol can manage a paint that actually sticks ...

 

To be fair, it's out of Humbrol's hands as to what you choose to paint over - a good undercoat will always give you a better top coat. Try a spray-on black undercoat and work from that, I'm sure it'll help.

[S.A.C Martin]

Best undercoat I've found recently is Humbrol's grey primer. Sticks to anything and leaves a nice smooth finish. Cleaning the surface with warm soapy water and a worn toothbrush will help wonders prior to applying the primer.

[melmerby]

In fact, having worked at OS for some time in the 60s, I can say that the 'deliberate error' records (very 'secret squirrel' and only available to senior management and senior civil servants, usually when an infringement case was being considered) had apparently been running since before 1900! 

 

So secret in fact that most evidence was shown to Judges 'in camera' and subsequently infringement damages paid without a court case.

 

Geographer's (A-Z) also do that.

They copped someone else out when they "named" a very short piece of tarmac that didn't have a proper name (it had no buildings, lighting drains or anything in fact)

When the name duly appeared on another map makers product they sued!

 

This was shown on a programme on TV about map making a few years ago.

 

CPU manufacturers also place redundant code into their products to see whether that gets copied!

 

Keith

 

[S.A.C Martin]

 

I am having a lot of fun with these models. A one off purely for my own entertainment (and just to show it can be done) is this piece using the Coronation model.

 

So far - £5.99 for the Coronation model, £13.50 for the second hand (loco drive) Duchess chassis. The tender I already had in my spares box, cost £15. Add a further £9.95 for Modelmaster nameplates (which includes two sets of transfers as well! Great value for money), and £23.00 in assorted coupling rods, valve gear, cylinder and drawbar hook from Peter's spares, the total project cost is give or take £40.

 

 

The model will become 46243 City of Lancaster as she was in 1948. Plain black, no branding, will be heavily weathered to reflect the rundown nature of the last "upturned bathtub". I have very much enjoyed getting to know Stanier's Pacifics a little better this last week or so and I think when done I will have a rather nice one off to put out on the layout occasionally.

 

I could not have bought a loco drive Coronation model for £40 and this opportunity is helping me relearn and develop new skills and understanding of modelling.

 

Plus, it's fun, something I have sorely lacking for a good year or two with railway modelling for various reasons.

[69843]

Looking good Simon!

[Corbs]

You as well Simon! I got my tender drive Duchess chassis yesterday, trying to work out how I can narrow the valve gear to fit inside the casing without it catching on the rods.

I have a leftover LMS tender from my Cathedral project, so probably going to try and marry the chassis from that to the GBL body somehow.

[69843]

See, this is what's good about these models. It's encouraging people to have a go at some good old fashioned modelling.