Great British Locomotives

[Catkins]

See, this is what's good about these models. It's encouraging people to have a go at some good old fashioned modelling.

And contemplating various "cut-and-shut" and fictitious locomotives, I'm waiting for part 3 with plans to take the cab and firebox off, and put the cab and firebox from Mallard on, then I hope to be able to "Semi-streamline" the smokebox, with a "utility" running plate at the front end - British Railways express blue paint scheme.

 

Two questions -

Where is Peters Spares, and does he have a website?

Does anyone know of any A4 names that were planned, but never used?

[TheCuckoo]

Where is Peters Spares, and does he have a website?

 

 

Google is your friend:

 

http://www.petersspares.com

[Corbs]

The ebay shop is really good too, and their customer service is excellent in my experience.

 

 

Does anyone know of any A4 names that were planned, but never used?

Dodo?

Edited March 15, 2014 by Corbs

[69843]

And contemplating various "cut-and-shut" and fictitious locomotives, I'm waiting for part 3 with plans to take the cab and firebox off, and put the cab and firebox from Mallard on, then I hope to be able to "Semi-streamline" the smokebox, with a "utility" running plate at the front end - British Railways express blue paint scheme.

 

Two questions -

Where is Peters Spares, and does he have a website?

Does anyone know of any A4 names that were planned, but never used?

Sounds like an interesting plan.

 

I'm not sure of any names that were planned but not used, but I did have one or two I picked of UK birds for another idea:

Cygnet

Sanderling

Sandpiper

Bluebird

Nightingale

[Il Grifone]

In fact, having worked at OS for some time in the 60s, I can say that the 'deliberate error' records (very 'secret squirrel' and only available to senior management and senior civil servants, usually when an infringement case was being considered) had apparently been running since before 1900! 

 

So secret in fact that most evidence was shown to Judges 'in camera' and subsequently infringement damages paid without a court case.

 

When we lived in Turin, there was an area that bore little resemblance to its map (non existent roads etc.). I wondered if this was an example of deliberate error or incompetence.

 

As regards 'cheap and nasty', IMHO, these are no worse than some of the commercial offerings in the past (better than some!) and I would doubt that non-enthusiasts would notice any errors either (misregistered transfers and glue marks maybe).

As for not fitting/shorting out track, does this matter in a static model - I was quite capable of isolating a siding at a young age. Likewise the wheels themselves are quite adequate for their purpose (flash and trailing trucks excepted - it's probably too much to expect a 9 spoke wheel for 'Coronation' on cost grounds).

Edited March 16, 2014 by Il Grifone

[MikeTrice]

The ebay shop is really good too, and their customer service is excellent in my experience.

 

 

Dodo?

I second that, having used them several times., No doubt I will again in the future.

[lightengine]

[quote name="Catkins" post="1383383" timestamp="1394910420"

Does anyone know of any A4 names that were planned, but never used?

 

I am sure that I read somewhere back in the 60's that they were considering;

Dot Com

Floppy Drive

Compact Disc

Bluetooth

RAM

Intel Inside

New Labour

Woteva

I am not sure if I'll Get My Coat was planned also.

[jamie92208]

I am sure that I read somewhere back in the 60's that they were considering;

Dot Com

Floppy Drive

Compact Disc

Bluetooth

RAM

Intel Inside

New Labour

Woteva

I am not sure if I'll Get My Coat was planned also.

I think I've mentioned somewhere before our club president converted an A4 to EM, painted it in lined maroon then named it Cuckoo.

 

Jamie

[melmerby]

Sounds like an interesting plan.

 

I'm not sure of any names that were planned but not used, but I did have one or two I picked of UK birds for another idea:

Bluebird

 

Bluebird?

 

Unless you are talking speed records, of course!

 

Keith

 

Tongue firmly in cheek: The Streak (Courtesy Ray Stevens)

Edited March 16, 2014 by melmerby

[S.A.C Martin]

 

Needs finishing off (some black paint, red paint, wheels top be painted and a few other bits and bobs).

 

Comparison with an RTR tender:

 

 

Meanwhile, the duchess gets some coupling rods and the tender starts getting rubbed down.

 

 

If anyone could confirm that the LMS used - well - black as opposed a dark grey on the streamliners it would be much appreciated. There's plenty of contemporary artwork showing the locomotives in a light grey but I had always put that down to soot and general service grime...

[NORTHDUK]

I have just read TheWeatheringMan's Post No. 348 and thought that I would add my own comments.

 

I agree that the comments made by Chris116 seem to be determinedly negative rather than objective.  He is entitled to his opinion, of course, and may have intended his remarks to be polemical rather than a literal statement of his feelings about the GBL models.

 

Some time ago, I contacted this forum to say that I had bought the Mallard model although I'm not a railway modeller.  I asked for information and received some very helpful replies.  Since then, I've visited the forum occasionally to see what other people think of the later models and to see what people have been doing with the Mallard.  As an impulse buyer, I'm probably part of the target market for GBL and I take a different view from Chris116.

 

Although I'm not a railway modeller, I've been making models since the late 1950s.  I must have built hundreds of plastic kits as well as carrying out conversions of varying complexity and a certain amount of scratch building.  This means that I'm not uncritical where models are concerned but I'm also realistic in my expectations.  I rarely encounter a plastic kit that is entirely accurate or convincing despite the fact that the manufacturers market them specifically to modellers and often stress accuracy as a selling point.  As a rule, I buy a kit in the expectation that it will need some degree of correction and some refinement or replacement of detail.  This also applies to resin and white metal kits and aftermarket parts.  Even so, I'm no more than an average modeller of ordinary dexterity.  The first stage of any model is the research needed to evaluate the kit and decide what needs to be done to bring it up to scratch.

 

When I bought the Mallard model, I didn't expect it to be any better than most plastic kits and I understood that a pre-assembled and finished model would include some compromises for practical and financial reasons.  I consider the standard to be reasonably good as far as the plastic mouldings are concerned.  The metal parts will need cleaning up and I felt that they were a weak point.  Nevertheless, some rather tedious work with a flat file will put them right for a static model.  After reading the booklet that came with the model and doing some research on the internet, I can see what will be needed for my purposes.  In particular, some painting in the cab and tender, the addition of the fabric canopy attached to the cab roof, adding the cab side panels (doors?) making the steam pipes that run along beside the front bogie, adding plastic card flanges to the rearmost bogie wheels and some cleaning up in places.  If I were a railway modeller, I might see more work to do but this will do for me.  I've never understood the question of scale track gauges where the running gear is a different scale from the rest of the model but I can easily live with the 16mm on the Mallard.

 

If I were not a modeller and had bought the model because it was cheap and looked nice, I probably wouldn't worry about scale accuracy at all and would simply take pleasure from the attractiveness of the model as an object.  There is no legitimate objection to that and and the buyer would be happy with his purchase.  These models are certainly cheap but I wouldn't call them nasty and I cannot see how they could bring railway modelling into disrepute.  A modeller would understand the factors involved and approach them accordingly.  A casual purchaser wouldn't see much wrong with them anyway and wouldn't condemn railway modellers on the strength of these models.

 

Best wishes,

 

Gordon McLaughlin

[NickL2008]

Im intrigued by the Duchess conversion, my dad likes the model with part 2, so I may keep that in mind for future conversion in my already large pile of locomotives that need finishing!

 

NL

[Ben Alder]

Humbrol acrylic primer is excellent, and this part of their paint range doesn't seem to have been a problem, unlike some of the jars. It can be used without any worries.

[69843]

Meanwhile, the duchess gets some coupling rods and the tender starts getting rubbed down.

And, by the looks of things, a rear pony truck as well!

[S.A.C Martin]

And, by the looks of things, a rear pony truck as well!

 

A few other bits and pieces too. I'm very impressed with the ease with which this conversion has happened. The A4s have been a little more difficult but they have been very good fun in their own right. Looking out for a 4472 model - this is the "make or break" one for me as I would like to standardise my A3 fleet as well and I need a good number of them…!

[Il Grifone]

 

  omis

 

  I've never understood the question of scale track gauges where the running gear is a different scale from the rest of the model but I can easily live with the 16mm on the Mallard.

 

Best wishes,

 

Gordon McLaughlin

 

 

This a vexed question and a source of much discussion (best glossed over), but it's all to do with getting overscale working parts into scale width bodywork.

 

Re. the track gauge on the plinth, one of mine measures 15.5mm. This accepts Tri-ang and Trix Express wheels (just and obviously without the usual slop) but anything nearer to scale has the flanges on one side sitting on the railhead (including Hornby Dublo).

[jamie92208]

Hi,

Perhaps I might add a bit as to why in Britain we have this odd out of scale situation.

Prior to the second world war when the move towards smaller scale model railways was in full swing the then common 7mm to one foot scale on a track gauge of 33mm was halved to produce 3.5mm on a track gauge of 16.5mm. This was called 'half -O' logically and of course still exists today as HO.

Due to the fact that British trains are smaller in real life than most others the manufacturers of the day found it almost impossible to fit the then existing electric motors into a 3.5mm scaled British outline body and so got round this by slightly increasing the body scale to 4mm to the foot whilst leaving the track gauge at 16.5mm. This they called 'OO'. Thus was born the odd out of relationship models we still use.

Of course there are those modellers who advocate the return of British outline models to 3.5mm as the previous problems no longer exist as motor technology has improved but our typically British compromise is so entrenched that this will never happen. For those who really cannot live with this situation there is the option of adopting the compromise EM (Eighteen Millimetre) or even closer to scale P4 (18.83mm) track gauges that involve much hand building of track and chassis but for the great majority of us the not quite correct OO will continue to satisfy.

 

Regards

Yes we have the late Henry Greenley to blame for that.   He apparently came up with the idea after using the same idea to get a workable steam loco onto 15" gauge track and thus built River Esk for the R & ER to 1/3rd scale on 1/4 scale track.  He then ssuccessfully used the same principle on the magnificent locos on the Romney Hythe and Dymchurch, this gave him the idea for 00.  His great nephew still operates on an EM gauge layout.

 

Jamie

Edited March 18, 2014 by jamie92208

[Il Grifone]

I did want to avoid opening this can of worms yet again, (hence "glossed over").

 

However, H. G., though an avocate of narrow gauges (the 'getting the works in' problem exists in all scales up to and including 304.8mm to the foot), is only partly to blame here. The first railway models smaller than gauge 0 were the Bing 'Miniature Table Railway' of the twenties, made in Germany to approximately half this size (IIRC the gauge is 16mm - 5/8" is quoted in the below) and obviously to the German loading gauge. Importation into Britain of the trains brought the observation that they were 'too big', to which Greenly is alleged to have replied that they were to 4mm scale*. The arguments have continued ever since.

* How much of the design is Greenly's is open to debate...

It's not so much fitting the motors in, though a problem then with bulky field wound or clockwork motors (permanent magnets didn't help, because the materials available then were rather pathetic as regards magnetic field), so much as finding room for the rather coarse wheels (They are not called 'steamroller' for nothing!). The guilty party is here. (This presumably is the black LNWR version - AFAIK they were also available in green (GNR), red (MR) and an American version, with the addition of a 'cowcatcher'). The tank wagon is obviously identical to the German one and the coaches seem more to German design than British .

 

 

As can be seen, the use of the word 'scale' is inappropriate.

 

Further reading here  http://www.doubleogauge.com/history/history.htm

Edited March 17, 2014 by Il Grifone

[S.A.C Martin]

The website for GBL shows a picture of the next loco, the 28xx model. Looks rather smart.

[knobhead]

The website for GBL shows a picture of the next loco, the 28xx model. Looks rather smart.

 

It looks like the old tender driven Hornby model with that coal heap. It's still a must have though.

 

Regards,

 

Stefan

[Ruffnut Thorston]

My version....

 

GBL Mallard loco and tender bodies on Tri-ang Hornby A3 "Flying Scotsman" loco and tender chassis. (Early Hornby Railways with X.03 motor and flanged centre driving wheels.)

 

Edited March 18, 2014 by Sarahagain

[knobhead]

My main interest in the coming model is cab, boiler and, maybe, the tender as useful parts.

 

Who will be the first to mount the GBL 28xx body on a Comet chassis?

 

Regards,

 

Stefan

[knobhead]

I wonder if there's an H0- loco out there that could be used for the 28xx? I won't be building a Comet chassis either.

 

Regards,

 

Stefan

[Horsetan]

.....Looking at the picture of the GBL issue 4 the boiler also has the same 'too long' look that the older Hornby model suffered from.

These differences can be clearly seen if the old model is compared side to side with the newer Hornby version which is pretty spot on.

The cab shape of the older model doesn't quite capture the look as well as the newer......

It's too long because it was derived from the old Triang-Hornby "Hall" - itself too long in the smokebox by about 3mm.

 

The cabside looks awful.

[NickL2008]

I had a look in Smiths in Westfield, Shepherds Bush, and no issue 3 there

 

NL