RMweb Premium Hippo Posted April 27, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 27, 2013 A picture posted on the Heritage Railway magazine Facebook feed shows mogul 46521 off the rails at the GCR Gala. https://www.facebook.com/HeritageRailway Owen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hippo Posted April 27, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 27, 2013 A youtube video of it. . It appears to be on a post demonstration train. I hope everyone envolved is ok. Owen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete S Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 The catch point seems to have done it's job correctly. The coach is still on the rails---just. The RAIB report could be interisting! Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Boar Fell Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 Hello Everyone, Firstly I hope everyone on the footplate is okay, I don't believe anyone was injured as it happened at very slow speed. The incident must have happened at about 9:40AM while I was at Quorn Station, the loco had just arrived with the jinty (which coupled to the small freight) and crossed platforms before backing into the siding with the TPO set in. Sometime after it entered the siding, the point and catch point were set against it, I was expecting something to be approaching from the Leciester end when the loco started up the siding and its tender bounced off the catchpoint followed by the loco, stopping with the first wheel of the tpo W80349 at the end of the point. By around about 11ish the tender of was being drained and at around 11:30 the steam crane was being watered and prepared for service, and left loughborough around 15:40. By then parts of the cab roof and tender roof had been removed. It sounded like the lift was going to happen tonight. From my photos of the incident happening it appears that all signals were set to danger. Just before moving off, , Just after moving off, tender already off The loco later, Crane after arrival Cab roof removed prior to lift. As a "Spectator" I must say that all the GCR staff did an excellent job given the issue and managed to return to schedule within not to long and still put on a 'Good show' so I think they should be proud of the way they dealt with it. I just hope that the repairs needed to the loco are few and cheap and that it returns to action soon (the damage I saw appeared to be to the tender brake rigging). Regards, Wild Boar Fell Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Will the RAIB be interested in that one, I'm not sure that it meets the criteria for an investigation? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted April 29, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 29, 2013 Inside clear, with the trapping protection doing its job. Passengers not at risk at any time. Indeed, had a passenger train been close-by, the accident might not have happened. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted April 29, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 29, 2013 Brilliant that they have that b****y great crane on site. Glad all was OK. P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumblestripe Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 Good to hear that everyone is OK, that is the most important thing. That said, I wonder if there is video of the actual derailment, it would make for an interesting watch (and guilt free given that no-one was hurt!) also I hope that the rescue is recorded for posterity using the steam crane! It might almost be marketable? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 29, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 29, 2013 Will the RAIB be interested in that one, I'm not sure that it meets the criteria for an investigation? It all depends - the incident is reportable but from there on all sorts of factors might come into the picture such as the railway's past record, the prevalence of reported (and unreported) SPADs on heritage lines, and any sort of views or information about derailments and their various causes. And there is also the unknown (to us that is) set of facts which could again influence the RAIB - was it a technical fault on the loco or was it a handling matter, was the SPAD related to other factors such as a possible medical condition or even other things which can affect judgement, was there a Drugs & Alcohol test carried out and so on? All in all quite a long list of things which might or might not set the RAIB off including whatever is currently its flavour of the month in dealing with the heritage/leisure part of the railway industry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 Presumably in a derailment like that, tge movement of the tender in comparison to the loco must be quite dangerous to the crew, far more so than in say a tank engine or a diesel derailing in the same manner, where the crew compartment is in one piece. From that video it would seemthat the loco setting off was quite deliberate, the whistling certainly give that impression. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian J. Posted April 30, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 30, 2013 To my eyes, studying the video footage, it looks like the trap point was set against going through. As the signal also seemed to be set against a movement, I would have to presume that either the driver had been given an all clear 'override' of the signal in error, or set off in error. However, it'll be up to any investigation to sort out what happened, I for one don't know enough about the rules and regs and I'm just an armchair observer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted April 30, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 30, 2013 I for one don't know enough about the rules and regs and I'm just an armchair observer. There are plenty in the comments section of the video who fall into the same category. I don't think the driver set off in error, the whistle normally means I'm about to pass a signal at danger. I don't know what rules and regs are in place on the GCR but normally authority to pass a signal at danger was/is given with an assurance that all points have been set and locked for the safe passage of the train. I seem to remember that the location of catch points was also pointed out to the driver to enable them to check there were set correctly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 30, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 30, 2013 While we don't know all the facts what we do know is that no one on the engine looked at the signal before the movement started (although someone twice looked back towards the rear of the train), there was no handsignal or flag exhibited from the signalbox (the signalbox windows remained closed throughout), and no one was keeping a lookout on the nearside as the engine moved off plus it took an awful long time to bring the move to a stand once it was very obviously derailed on the trap. The incident has several hallmarks of a classic SPAD but there might, of course, be far more to it than that and interestingly there is clearly someone visible inside the signalbox - near the door - watching the movement although his level of disinterest and very slow reactions after the derailment suggest to me that he was not the Signalman on duty. Sounding the whistle in this situation is to me no indication whatsoever that a signal is to be passed at danger but simply one indicating that the engine is about to move (old Rule 127). If the RAIB happen to see that video I'm in not much doubt that they will be taking a more than passing interest in the incident but as yet there is nothing about it on their site Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted April 30, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 30, 2013 Hollywood couldn't have filmed it better! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Hollywood couldn't have filmed it better! At least Tom Cruise wasn't involved... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 He was, he's just too small to see Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Hollywood couldn't have filmed it better!Of course they could - it would've exploded in a massive fireball..!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Some of the comments in that video really do show how stupid and ignorant people can start rumours. "The Driver was the only one on the footplate" - so who was driving when the fireman can be clearly seen in the video "Trap points cannot be moved if the signal protecting them is at danger" - really? I'm not sure who the gent was in the cabin looking through the door, I personally do not allow enthusiasts in the cabins I am working on busy days because they are a distraction, but each railway and even each individual in some cases has their own rules. I can however see reminders flying round the GCR and the other preserved railways reminding of the magic phrase "reach a clear understanding" which may well be an underlying factor. I am most impressed by the calm demeanour of the loco crew,had I been in their place the air would have been considerably bluer! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coppercap Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 "Oh, cinders and ballast! I'm off!" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiderHead Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 I am most impressed by the calm demeanour of the loco crew,had I been in their place the air would have been considerably bluer! How can you tell from that vid? Almost zero vis into the cab and the wind noise/distance/big sheets of steel mean you cant hear whats going on in there. There is nothing here to be impressed with, quite the opposite. Whoever is ultimately found responsible, this is a worrying incident. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 30, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 30, 2013 How can you tell from that vid? Almost zero vis into the cab and the wind noise/distance/big sheets of steel mean you cant hear whats going on in there. There is nothing here to be impressed with, quite the opposite. Whoever is ultimately found responsible, this is a worrying incident. There might well have been some 'demonstrative' language used - of one kind or another and varying from the quizzical ('why/how did that happen?') to the worried ('oh ***!') but there was definitely no sign whatsoever of headless chicken panic as the chap looking out over the nearest side of the cab clearly showed. And it might, or might not, be 'a worrying incident' - we simply don't know that as yet, one way or the other, apart from the very obvious fact that for some reason or another the engine passed a signal at danger and was duly, well and truly, 'trapped' by the trap points. As far as I'm concerned there are far more 'worrying' things than that to be found on some of our 'heritage' railways and indeed on the national network - the important difference being that unless you understand them you may find it difficult to appreciate what they are and what their potential impact might be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiderHead Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 indeed Mr Stationmaster, and thats why you'll only ever find me seated somewhere in the middle of a rake of coaches, whether on a preserved line or the network. Its not much, but its about all I can personally do to mitigate the risk. TBH regular rail travel makes me more nervous, because although I assume the average risk is much lower, much higher line speeds and traffic density inevitable slew the risk profile towards black swan incidents. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 its gotta be the drivers fault, not concentrating, for whatever reason. my first thought was elderly driver perhaps but that was just a thought. he hasnt looked at the road. he may have asked the fireman who said ok to go but hadnt looked properly? ive noticed silly things on preserved railways which just point to lack of concentration, things like setting off the wrong way after a run round. I would think there are plenty of people who'd like a turn at volunteering at driving, if its the drivers fault maybe take him off driving and offer him volunteering at a minor role. is that harsh or fair? he maybe the best experienced driver and nicest person, but let someone else have a go, but then you are gaining someone else who isnt as experienced, this accident may have been down to inexperience, you could argue perhaps that it will make him a better driver as he wont do it again. at the end of the day, at least no one is hurt, and the trap point has done what it was designed to do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milkman matt Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Perhaps it was a demonstration of how trap points work! I'll get my hat..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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