Bachmann Stanier mogul

[MikeParkin65]

Possibly because building one yourself would show up the problems in seeking perfection.

 

 

 

Its a totally different skill set - building something from metal parts (or even from raw materials) compared to having a cad designed set of injection moulded parts assembled on a production line in China.

 

I dont think anyone on this thread has said the mogul is a bad model or that they wouldnt buy it as a result of some of the easily spotted minor compromises - just that it isnt quite up to the standard of some previous releases from Bachmann. If it was a 'stunner' I'd buy one but a Stanier Mogul isnt an 'essential' and I'll divert the funds to a Brassmasters detail kit for the Hornby Black 5 and a Locoman sound chip instead. 

[ikks]

Just picked mine up from the Post Box............eight days from Hattons to Inman Valley, I don't recall any faster similar delivery!

Anyway opened the box and...................... I am absolutely delighted with this effort from Bachmann   but now I have to save up to get at least one more!

 

Rgds.....Mike

[Bernard Lamb]

Seeing that they have modelled the reinforcing rings on the inside of the front of the frames but not pierced then, how the heck do you drill them out?

In the past I have drilled holes and added washers to represent the reinforcing.

Probably much easier.

Certainly easier than measuring and making a drilling  jig.

Bernard

[coachmann]

Seeing that they have modelled the reinforcing rings on the inside of the front of the frames but not pierced then, how the heck do you drill them out?

In the past I have drilled holes and added washers to represent the reinforcing.

Probably much easier.

Certainly easier than measuring and making a drilling  jig.

Bernard

I done it by eye. A hand chuck was used to make a pilot dimple then the hole was drilled in several 'bites' using an electric drill. Finally the hole was opened out with a larger drill. Painting the insides of the holes with a brush would probably clog them up, so I applied paint to a length of handrail wire and juggled it around inside each hole to black them. More on my Workbench....

 

[locoholic]

I done it by eye. A hand chuck was used to make a pilot dimple then the hole was drilled in several 'bites' using an electric drill. Finally the hole was opened out with a larger drill. Painting the insides of the holes with a brush would probably clog them up, so I applied paint to a length of handrail wire and juggled it around inside each hole to black them. More on my Workbench....

 

WEB Stanier Crab 9.jpg

Very brave! If I tried to do that, the hole would never be in the centre of the reinforcing ring, which would look very weird.

[MikeParkin65]

I done it by eye. A hand chuck was used to make a pilot dimple then the hole was drilled in several 'bites' using an electric drill. Finally the hole was opened out with a larger drill. Painting the insides of the holes with a brush would probably clog them up, so I applied paint to a length of handrail wire and juggled it around inside each hole to black them. More on my Workbench....

 

WEB Stanier Crab 9.jpg

Who's replacement front pony wheel is that if you dont mind me asking?

[coachmann]

Who's replacement front pony wheel is that if you dont mind me asking?

No problem. Alan Gibson Ref. G4839ST 3ft 3½ins 10 spoke bevel rim bogie wheels. 

[MikeParkin65]

Late crest 42968 available from Bridgnorth station shop at the Severn Valley Railway for anyone visiting the Spring Steam Gala. Also 429698 preservation society have a sales stand at Kidderminster - various OO second hand for sale.

[Black 5 Bear]

Presumably that means the late crest version is an imminent release elsewhere. Thanks for the update.

[LMS2968]

Late crest 42968 available from Bridgnorth station shop at the Severn Valley Railway for anyone visiting the Spring Steam Gala. Also 429698 preservation society have a sales stand at Kidderminster - various OO second hand for sale.

Sales Stand dates available at http://staniermogulfund.org.uk/?page_id=825

Edited March 17, 2017 by LMS2968

[locoman462]

Can anyone advise at what point and for what reason Stanier mogul 42968 had its front buffer beam changed from the smooth version as shown on photographs taken in the early 1960s to the riveted version with which it was withdrawn from BR service and has subsequently carried

throughout its preservation career. Looking at various shots of the class, both styles seem to have been carried at various stages.

The three Bachmann models all appear to have smooth front buffer beams.

[Leander]

Can anyone advise at what point and for what reason Stanier mogul 42968 had its front buffer beam changed from the smooth version as shown on photographs taken in the early 1960s to the riveted version with which it was withdrawn from BR service and has subsequently carried

throughout its preservation career. Looking at various shots of the class, both styles seem to have been carried at various stages.

The three Bachmann models all appear to have smooth front buffer beams.

According to photos in Irwell's 'Book of the Stanier2-6-0s', it had a 'smooth' front buffer beam in 1959 and a riveted on by September 1966. Not a great deal of help I know!

[LMS2968]

This is one of three mysteries with this engine. Both Crewe and Horwich used counter-sunk rivets to attach the buffer beam; Derby and Swindon (where some of the class were overhauled during 1964) used snap head. From photograph dates, not always reliable, 2968 had counter sunk rivets to about the 1963 - 1965 era.  The Engine History Cards were not filled in by this time so there is no Works attention to account for the change, nor is there any record, sightings or photographs of the engine at Swindon. We don't know.

 

For the record, the other mysteries are the works plates, which were moved to a higher position at some time between 1955 and 1960. She had an out-of-sequence Heavy General repair at Horwich 12/08/57 - 26/09/57, during which she received two new cylinders and a new Right Hand front mainframe, welded immediately behind the cylinder (so far, no evidence of a Left Hand frame extension). This suggests heavy collision damage, but I've found nothing to explain it.

 

At the same HG repair she received boiler 8412, which she carries to this day. She was not withdrawn until 31/12/66, so that boiler lasted nine years, Boilers had a normal lifespan of five years, extendable following examination by up to two years (hence the seven year ticket for current main line locos), so how did this one last so long?

 

Any answers would be very much appreciated, because it's "Doin' me head in," as my students used to say!

[brushman47544]

This is one of three mysteries with this engine. Both Crewe and Horwich used counter-sunk rivets to attach the buffer beam; Derby and Swindon (where some of the class were overhauled during 1964) used snap head. From photograph dates, not always reliable, 2968 had counter sunk rivets to about the 1963 - 1965 era.  The Engine History Cards were not filled in by this time so there is no Works attention to account for the change, nor is there any record, sightings or photographs of the engine at Swindon. We don't know.

 

For the record, the other mysteries are the works plates, which were moved to a higher position at some time between 1955 and 1960. She had an out-of-sequence Heavy General repair at Horwich 12/08/57 - 26/09/57, during which she received two new cylinders and a new Right Hand front mainframe, welded immediately behind the cylinder (so far, no evidence of a Left Hand frame extension). This suggests heavy collision damage, but I've found nothing to explain it.

 

At the same HG repair she received boiler 8412, which she carries to this day. She was not withdrawn until 31/12/66, so that boiler lasted nine years, Boilers had a normal lifespan of five years, extendable following examination by up to two years (hence the seven year ticket for current main line locos), so how did this one last so long?

 

Any answers would be very much appreciated, because it's "Doin' me head in," as my students used to say!

 

Perhaps you've sort of answered your own question. Could the loco have had a repair at Derby or Swindon when the boiler was repaired to the extent it was recertified for five years and the counter sunk rivets were used at that time?

[grimytimes]

Late crest versions being shipped , we will have ours delivered tomorrow!

[LMS2968]

Perhaps you've sort of answered your own question. Could the loco have had a repair at Derby or Swindon when the boiler was repaired to the extent it was recertified for five years and the counter sunk rivets were used at that time?

Yes, I had thought of that too, but there are no obvious gaps in the sightings to allow time for this. The biggest gap is about five weeks, and while it would be just about possible to turn an engine around in this time, a boiler repair would be pushing it. There is no record at ANY time of any of any these engines receiving attention at Derby, and once in Swindon the basically disappeared for months at a time. 2954 was there from 29/01/64 to 17/10/64, although that was exceptional. The other six did spend long times there, though.

[locoman462]

Yes, I had thought of that too, but there are no obvious gaps in the sightings to allow time for this. The biggest gap is about five weeks, and while it would be just about possible to turn an engine around in this time, a boiler repair would be pushing it. There is no record at ANY time of any of any these engines receiving attention at Derby, and once in Swindon the basically disappeared for months at a time. 2954 was there from 29/01/64 to 17/10/64, although that was exceptional. The other six did spend long times there, though.

Thanks for your input.

Swindon did always like doing things it's own way, so I suppose that they could well be behind this mystery.

[PenrithBeacon]

Yes, I had thought of that too, but there are no obvious gaps in the sightings to allow time for this. The biggest gap is about five weeks, and while it would be just about possible to turn an engine around in this time, a boiler repair would be pushing it. There is no record at ANY time of any of any these engines receiving attention at Derby, and once in Swindon the basically disappeared for months at a time. 2954 was there from 29/01/64 to 17/10/64, although that was exceptional. The other six did spend long times there, though.

I thought that boilers were replaced if they needed more than a superficial amount of remedial work. It might just be that the reason for the works visit lay elsewhere.

[adb968008]

Are you sure you really have 2968 there ?

 

Swindon did have prior form in "subbing" locos... :-)

 

This picture here, if correct shows it ex-works at Crewe in 1963, with 43086 behind it.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/93456400@N04/14230859450/in/photolist-j3xV4w-cTjBKG-nFwSHG-9Qks4E-9QkrMw

Edited March 21, 2017 by adb968008

[LMS2968]

Are you sure you really have 2968 there ?

 

Swindon did have prior form in "subbing" locos... :-)

 

This picture here, if correct shows it ex-works at Crewe in 1963, with 43086 behind it.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/93456400@N04/14230859450/in/photolist-j3xV4w-cTjBKG-nFwSHG-9Qks4E-9QkrMw

Now that is a very interesting photograph, and I thank you for the link. We were aware from other BR paperwork that she'd had an 'Intermediate' repair from November 1962. Intermediates did not normally involve a boiler lift (a boiler lift immediately raised the repair to 'Heavy'), but it would not normally involve a repaint with full lining out either. Interesting is that the buffer beam is counter-sunk riveted after this repair. There was a possibility of 'Heavy Intermediate', which would involve a replacement boiler, but every boiler has its own individual number and the current one is 8412, fitted in 1957.

 

I do though question the location as being Crewe. Quite apart from the above-mentioned paperwork, the Archive has four sightings of the loco at Horwich on 25/11/62 (Sunday) so obviously an organised visit, and she then ran Works Trials from Bolton 24/12/62 - 27/12/62, the usual shed for locos ex-Horwich Works. There are two sightings of her on Nuneaton shed on 3rd February 1963, so either the quoted date is incorrect (not unusual) or the photo was taken at Nuneaton, which doesn't sound right.

 

And yes, we have the right 2968! Unless someone went to all the trouble of moving the works plate (moved before 1960 and whose location is unique to this loco) and fitted all the valve gear, most of which is still stamped 13268.

 

Edited to add: Maintenance wasn't transferred to Swindon until December 1963 (from Engine History Cards) and the first sightings there are from early January 1964. Also sent to Swindon were the Ivatt Class 4s, one of which is in the background, but they had also been repaired at Horwich prior to this.

Edited March 22, 2017 by LMS2968

[TheSignalEngineer]

................ There are two sightings of her on Nuneaton shed on 3rd February 1963, so either the quoted date is incorrect (not unusual) or the photo was taken at Nuneaton, which doesn't sound right.

 

Wasn't there quite a bit of snow lying in February 1963? 

[Norton961]

I notice the photo taken of 42968 allegedly taken at Crewe in 1963 also seems to show it is still not fitted with AWS as there is no small air tank on the footplate.

[Ian Hargrave]

Wasn't there quite a bit of snow lying in February 1963?

 

Absolutely correct. At that time I was living not too far away. It started snowing just after Xmas '62 and snow lay on the ground until March/April '63. I remember that there were usually periods of snow most mornings and the ground was permafrost.To provide adequate heating some times the new diesels had a steam loco coupled behind them at the front of their train.Awinter most of us around at the time will never forget.

[TheSignalEngineer]

Another photo on the same photostream which is dated as 3 February 1963 shows a special to Crewe Works which according to Six Bells Junction actually ran on 10th February.

[LMS2968]

I thought I'd check for AWS fitment, and the timing reservoir is in place near the bottom of the vacuum pipe to the ejector. The point about there being no snow is well made. Yes, I too remember that winter well!