Hornby 42xx- not a bashing thread

[Hilux5972]

For starters i want it perfectly clear, this is not a bash Hornby thread.

I just received a Hornby 42xx number 4266. She looks stunning in BR black.

The cab interior, what little you can see of it, looks stunning as per Hornbys usual standard.

The buffers look good, regardless if whether they are sprung or not.

The moulded smokebox dart looks absolutely fine when viewed from normal viewing distance.

The running qualities are superb, easily hauling my vsoe rake of 11 of the latest Hornby Pullmans, something my new A4 & A3 struggle with.

 

Overall I believe that this design clever philosophy will be a success. Maybe just a few tweaks, specifically in the way of brass bearings in the wheel slots of the chassis.

 

7/10 from me.

[Hilux5972]

Forgot to mention, I really like the design of the new Hornby loco box. Much cleaner than the 2 part polystyrene trays.

[Gordon A]

So what changes are you going to make to the detailing to gain those extra 3 points?

 

Gordon A

Bristol

[jjb1970]

I think the reason why many did bash this release it exactly because it is so nearly there. If it was a real lemon OK people might get mad and throw insults at Hornby but they'd write the model off and move on. In this case I think almost everybody agrees there are a lot of positives, the shape especially is excellent. My own view is that with a little work they have the basis of a fist class model. The other thing that upset people was that a model which is visibly compromised relative to older Hornby models is still selling at the same premium level price. I hope this isn't seen as bashing, as I agree that in terms of the impression when the model is hauling trains on a layout, especially with a bit of weathering, it will look excellent, but I still can't help feeling disappointed. Hasn't stopped me buying though.

[The Stationmaster]

So what changes are you going to make to the detailing to gain those extra 3 points?

 

Gordon A

Bristol

Interesting question.  I rated it at 8 out of 10 on first acquaintance (I was torn between 7 and 8 and decided to be generous) - what I will be doing is -

 

1. Etched plates (not Hornby's concern so neutral influence on my score),

2. Having a go at the smokebox door handle to replace it with something much better (and hopefully not chopping off the lance cock in the process).

3. Spoken to the etching fraternity about producing a decent cab backsheet and window bar frets to replace what in my view is the biggest let down on the body.

4. Probably replacing the buffers  now having a suitable type in stock following Railex (although again I don't think the lack of them impacted too much on my score).

5. Puzzling about reducing the sideplay in the driven axles (which together with the feather weight were the loco's biggest minus points in my view).

6. Looking seriously at providing lifeguards at the rear (one of the biggest shortcomings in the loco's appearance along with the cab back sheet).

7. Studied application of workaday filth in some cases; complete repaint/renumbering of the GW livery 72XX to ex-works 'late' BR livery in another in order to get the correct loco (when it arrives) to match a pic of one I took at STJ in September 1962.

 

8. A faint hope that the rest of my pre-orders don't all arrive at once because I'm told I've got plenty to do in the garden. 

 

PS I agree absolutely with jjb; I feel the ship was spoilt for a ha'porth of tar and the VFM element is not impressive - but my buying plans are unaltered - and my score remains the same.

Edited May 27, 2013 by The Stationmaster

[45568]

I think the first first question on many folks' lips would be.."Wheredyagedditt?" !!! Do you know a hen dentist?

Cheers,

Peter C.

[Hilux5972]

So what changes are you going to make to the detailing to gain those extra 3 points?

 

Gordon A

Bristol

I will be:

 

1. Fitting brass bushes into the axle slots.

2. Glueing the handrails below the cab side windows in, as they were loose in the box.

3. I will be fitting a 3 link coupling to the front as the model was not supplied with one.

4. Fitting the requisite driver and fireman in the cab.

5. Getting the loco weathered to a more hard-worked appearance.

6. Fitting etched plates.

[Hilux5972]

I'll do it tomorrow 81C and I'll get back to you on that one.

[buffalo]

I'd be interested in your comments on this loco after you have run it for about an hour. 

81C

Before I stripped mine down for modifications and converting to another gauge, I ran it on the rollers for about forty minutes in each direction. It ran smoothly throughout. I can't say much about on-track performance as I only ran it up and down a couple of metres of track on my HO layout a couple of times, but it ran quite happily through Peco turnouts.

 

Nick

Edited May 27, 2013 by buffalo

[Gordon A]

It sounds as iff the loco is a pretty good, which can be improved with some careful of detailing to bring it up to current standards.

A few pictures of your efforts would be appreciated.

 

Stationmaster - If you are looking to have a an etched cab backsheet produced, could guard irons be included?

 

 

Gordon A

Bristol

[BRealistic]

Good on yer Hilux for starting this thread. The 'other one' had me reaching for anti-depressants!

 

I'll be getting a 72xx, probably 'fitted', and am keen to know what the 'easier' improvements might be.

[micklner]

I think the first first question on many folks' lips would be.."Wheredyagedditt?" !!! Do you know a hen dentist?

Cheers,

Peter C.

Modelzone @ Bluewater had three or poss four  versions on display on Saturday.

[Legend]

Yes seems there available at full price. Shame if you thought you'd preorder from the big dealers to make sure you got one......in most cases you are still waiting!

[Martin_R]

Setchfields in Poole still had a BR 2-8-0T for sale last week, not sure if it was R3124 or R3126.

[robmcg]

It occurred to me from the start that the square axlebox arrangement could be an intelligent way to allow individual axles to better ailgn themselves for type 2 or sharper curves, points, warps and so on.  If there are no substantial wear issues it is a good bit of design. Clever in fact.

 

The BR black 42XX I bought via the web from a fairly well known retailer at £94 from memory (about £79 with VAT off)

 was photographed and has now been on-sold for about that, no loose parts, and the buyer says it runs very well.

 

Rob

 

Edited May 27, 2013 by robmcg

[buffalo]

It occurred to me from the start that the square axlebox arrangement could be an intelligent way to allow individual axles to better ailgn themselves for type 2 or sharper curves, points, warps and so on.  If there are no substantial wear issues it is a good bit of design. Clever in fact....

I'm not sure how you arrive at that conclusion, Rob. Decent brass bushes, as used on the 28XX, achieve the same and offer good lubricant retention. I'm inclined to see it as a rather dumb design that provides very limited oil retention. Even round holes in the mazak would be better if they provided an adequate width of bearing surface. That said, until someone does a long term test, we won't really know whether wear is a serious issue. In the meantime, I offer this higher resolution crop of a photo I posted earlier:

 

 

This is after about 80 minutes running on the rollers. A slight indentation is visible in the top of the axle slot, but at this stage, it represents little more than polishing of the mazak surface. The depth of the indentation is between one and two hundredths of a millimetre.

 

Nick

Edited May 27, 2013 by buffalo

[autocoach]

After a bad experience with my 5294 where the drivers went out of quarter after hanging on the first Peco large radius turnout they encountered. I have had no response yet from Hornby Technical Support on field repairs ( I am i the US and returning to Hattons or Hornby through the US postal system would be a great pain). I noticed that Alan Gibson is selling an EM or P4 drivers conversion kit with new drivers. I have inquired if they will supply the kit for those of us who are still in 16.5 mm gauge.  Brass bearings are I understand not included in the Alan Gibson kit and it is also unsprung. I will be interested to see how brass bearings might be constructed and if anyone tries springing the drivers.

 

The other upgrades listed above all sound good and may come with time. I will renumber to a 52xx that was not used to build a 72xx and apply the later GWR shirtbutton roundel emblem.

 

I guess I was one of the lucky ones or is it just because I ordered the GWR version and not the BR version, but I have a 42xx as well still boxed after the problems with the 52xx. I may take it to my local hobby store where I can run it on DC as my home layout is strictly DCC. It has been so long that I have been completely DCC that I cannot even find the last DC powerpack/transformer I had.

[Hilux5972]

It occurred to me from the start that the square axlebox arrangement could be an intelligent way to allow individual axles to better ailgn themselves for type 2 or sharper curves, points, warps and so on. If there are no substantial wear issues it is a good bit of design. Clever in fact.

 

The BR black 42XX I bought via the web from a fairly well known retailer at £94 from memory (about £79 with VAT off)

was photographed and has now been on-sold for about that, no loose parts, and the buyer says it runs very well.

 

Rob

 

Churchward_BR_4266_r800a_6a_crop2a.jpg

That would be me rob. The loco is a stunner.

[toboldlygo]

I'm not sure how you arrive at that conclusion, Rob. Decent brass bushes, as used on the 28XX, achieve the same and offer good lubricant retention. I'm inclined to see it as a rather dumb design that provides very limited oil retention. Even round holes in the mazak would be better if they provided an adequate width of bearing surface. That said, until someone does a long term test, we won't really know whether wear is a serious issue. In the meantime, I offer this higher resolution crop of a photo I posted earlier:

 

4283_25.jpg

 

This is after about 80 minutes running on the rollers. A slight indentation is visible in the top of the axle slot, but at this stage, it represents little more than polishing of the mazak surface. The depth of the indentation is between one and two hundredths of a millimetre.

 

Nick

 

How deep is the recess behind the slots?

[buffalo]

After a bad experience with my 5294 where the drivers went out of quarter after hanging on the first Peco large radius turnout they encountered. I have had no response yet from Hornby Technical Support on field repairs ( I am i the US and returning to Hattons or Hornby through the US postal system would be a great pain). I noticed that Alan Gibson is selling an EM or P4 drivers conversion kit with new drivers. I have inquired if they will supply the kit for those of us who are still in 16.5 mm gauge.  Brass bearings are I understand not included in the Alan Gibson kit and it is also unsprung. I will be interested to see how brass bearings might be constructed and if anyone tries springing the drivers...

Ken,

 

The Gibson conversion set is simply a set of wheels and axles and are exactly the same as the ones for the 28XX. There are instructions on how to fit them here. You will also need to fit crankpins, modify the rods and make your own balance weights. I may have misunderstood your earlier posts on the other topic, but I had the impression that you haven't done any wheel swapping before. If not, then please forgive the egg-sucking lecture. Fitting Gibson wheels is not a very difficult job but might be quite daunting for a first-timer. I think you would be much better following earlier advice and attempting to refit the loose wheels with a drop of super glue (having first checked that the quartering is correct). If you are running on Peco track, the Hornby wheels are more than adequate and their representation of the balance weights is really rather good.

 

Maybe one of us will get around to fitting better bearings, perhaps even springing, though a new chassis from someone like Comet would be the best way to achieve this. Watch this space, it's on my list but I'm sure someone else will get there first.

 

Nick

Edited May 27, 2013 by buffalo

[buffalo]

How deep is the recess behind the slots?

On mine, the axle slots are about 3.05mm deep, the deeper recess is 3.58-3.66mm. See also this post.

 

Nick

[toboldlygo]

On mine, the axle slots are about 3.05mm deep, the deeper recess is 3.58-3.66mm. See also this post.

 

Nick

 

This may be well and truly outside the box thinking, but why not create a brass U section to sit in the deep part of the slot?

[buffalo]

This may be well and truly outside the box thinking, but why not create a brass U section to sit in the deep part of the slot?

That's certainly one possibility, or a piece of fairly thin wall tubing with flats top and bottom sitting in the deeper part. As mine wil be P4, I've been thinking about ways of combining a brass bearing with spacers to limit the sideplay. This would be part inside and part outside and would require the slots in the mazak to be widened. This way it might be possible to add spring assistance as suggested by 34theletterbetweenB&D in this post. Not proper springing, of course, but much the same as Comet and some other sprung chassis are intended to work.

 

Nick

[Hilux5972]

I'd be interested in your comments on this loco after you have run it for about an hour.

81C

So I have had the loco running for about 2 hours non stop today with a rake of 18 vent vans. She runs a treat and I have no fault at all with it. Did you experience problems 81C?

[gwrrob]

Andy Y has spoken to Simon Kohler at length on this model and has posted here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/55623-Hornby-42xx-72xx-first-glimpses/page-50&do=findComment&comment=1053494