Scale figures

[J C Fenton]

Does anyone have first hand experience of the range of MRD figures http://www.emardee.org.uk/epages/BT4589.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/BT4589/Categories/%224mm%20Figures%22

 

I need Victorian and Edwardian 4mm figures and other than Preiser (3.5mm) and Langley, haven't seen any others in person, as it were. The Pete Goss figures look detailed but "heavy" and the Langley don't always seem that well modelled.

 

Jol

 

Apologies for the poor photos, see the 2 comparison shots of Victorian and Edwardian figures.

 

Below, left to right: Mike Pett's Holmes; Mike Pett's Watson; MRD Holmes; MRD Watson.

 

 

Below, left to right: Mike Pett Lady; Aiden Campbell Lady; Mike Pett Gentleman; Aiden Campbell Gentleman

[allan downes]

With referrence and sincerest apologies to Homles & Co above -  God save us....

 

Now we're all friends here, so let's be totaly honest with each other.

 

Would you, after spending probably thousands of pounds on your layout and probably twice as much in man hours to build it, willingly populate it with such grotesque deformaties such as  that ?

 

So OK, you could argue - well if you don't like 'em Downes, let's see you do better. And of course I couldn't because making model figures isn't/wasn't my job, and had it have been, I can assure you that they would have been even worse still - but I would rather have no figures at all than ruin a good layout with such monstrosities - so please forgive me Guys, but that isn't a criticism just for the sake of it, I'd rather you saw it as being  totaly honest.

 

Cheers.

Allan

[Clive Mortimore]

I wish companies would post photos of their product. I frustrates me immensely when you have no idea what you are buying. Small photos are just about as helpful as none at all. In this day and age there is no excuse for it at all.  

First they would have to buy the film, take the photos, remember to run the film to Boots before closing time, and wait two weeks for it to be developed and printed. Once they have them back in the office they will need scanning which their mate can only do on a Tuesday when the boss is not there. After being scanned to a floppy disc they are then uploaded to the computer and photoshopped (what ever that is). Following this they are e-mailed to the web designer.

 

Any company not showing an image of their wares does not get my internet custom.

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I think a lot of it is perception as well. I think using Preiser HO figures is okay you just need a bit of creativity and careful placement. 

 

It is not only people that are generally badly done, animals leave much to be desired as well. Preiser do a nice range of animals as well including wild animals. A group of HO sheep or cattle in a field really have nothing to scale them to so wouldn't look out of place at all. I plan on doing a zoo as part of my layout. As the buildings will end up being scratch built and of a "commercial"  design, I don't think there will be any problem. 

[justin1985]

The conclusion seems to be that plastic is the right material for scale figures, and white metal is not!

 

In fact, I'm struggling to think of ANY use where whitemetal is the best material ...

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The conclusion seems to be that plastic is the right material for scale figures, and white metal is not!

 

In fact, I'm struggling to think of ANY use where whitemetal is the best material ...

My 1:32 toy soldiers are done in metal and they look lovely

[allan downes]

Do you know what a 'Elephahorse' is ?

 

Well it's a cross between an elephant and a horse and Langley do one in white metal although they call their's a carthorse.Just check it out sometime but for gawds sake don't put one in front of a coal cart ! - in fact, don't put one anywhere period !

[Mikkel]

Does anyone have first hand experience of the range of MRD figures http://www.emardee.org.uk/epages/BT4589.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/BT4589/Categories/%224mm%20Figures%22

 

I need Victorian and Edwardian 4mm figures and other than Preiser (3.5mm) and Langley, haven't seen any others in person, as it were. The Pete Goss figures look detailed but "heavy" and the Langley don't always seem that well modelled.

 

Jol

 

Jol, FWIW: In addition to the post above showing MRD figures, there are some more in a blog entry I did a whole ago here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/75/entry-8444-lesser-known-whitemetal-figures/

[J C Fenton]

Jol, FWIW: In addition to the post above showing MRD figures, there are some more in a blog entry I did a whole ago here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/75/entry-8444-lesser-known-whitemetal-figures/

 

Yes, though The MRD figures (pictures 4,5 and 6) are perhaps a little hard to love.

 

The Geoff Stevens figures bear an uncanny resemblance to Dapol's plastic Railway Workmen set (first 3 pictures):   http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/review.aspx?id=1161

 

[Mikkel]

Yes, I don't know which ones are the original ones. I seem to remember that someone on here has explained the connection between the Geoff Stevens and the Dapol figures, but unfortunately I can't find it.

 

Some of them are quite nice for detail. Although there is something about their looks that remind me of the Soviet "ideal worker" propaganda illustrations! :-)

[theoldmansminion]

i shall definetly get a pack on them Dapol figures.

 

 

also i 've taken the plunge and got me some of these....

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/90-X-00-GAUGE-SITTING-FIGURES-UNPAINTED-MEN-AND-WOMEN-NEW-U80-/300850826130?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item460c1b4b92

 

nice cheap, seat and carriage fillers, thers a whole load more, that hopefully they be OO, but as they're sitting....not so important

 

 

i'll keep you posted

[Jol Wilkinson]

Jol, FWIW: In addition to the post above showing MRD figures, there are some more in a blog entry I did a whole ago here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/75/entry-8444-lesser-known-whitemetal-figures/

 

Mikkel,

 

thanks for that link.

 

The Geoff Stevens figures look quite good, I'll have to find where I can get those. The Hythe Model Shop appears under Mr Stevens name in the CLAG directory but as they have no website a phone call will be required.

 

Jol

[Mikkel]

Jol, I got mine from Mainly Trains, who still seem to have them:

 

http://www.mainlytrains.co.uk/acatalog/4mm-figuresandfiguresets.html

 

(horse shunters and sheeting gang)

[Jol Wilkinson]

Jol, I got mine from Mainly Trains, who still seem to have them:

 

http://www.mainlytrains.co.uk/acatalog/4mm-figuresandfiguresets.html

 

(horse shunters and sheeting gang)

 

Hi Mikkel,

 

thanks for the info, unfortunately there aren't any "ladies and gents"  figures as I was hoping. I need to populate several platforms.

 

Jol

[buffalo]

...The Geoff Stevens figures look quite good, I'll have to find where I can get those. The Hythe Model Shop appears under Mr Stevens name in the CLAG directory but as they have no website a phone call will be required.

The shop closed a few years ago, Jol. Last time I was there was maybe seven or eight years ago. A quick look on Google stree map shows the tiny shop (if I remember the correct place) with a sign saying "Jay's Tatoo Art has moved...".

 

Nick

[Jol Wilkinson]

The shop closed a few years ago, Jol. Last time I was there was maybe seven or eight years ago. A quick look on Google stree map shows the tiny shop (if I remember the correct place) with a sign saying "Jay's Tatoo Art has moved...".

 

Nick

 

Thanks Nick,

 

if you Google it, the shop appears on lots of local business directories and the CLAG site, although it's not in the UK Model Shop Directory.

 

I have found  that Google maps and street view are often well out of date, our house and street being no exception.

 

Jol

[buffalo]

...I have found  that Google maps and street view are often well out of date, our house and street being no exception.

Yes, indeed. I've not been to Hythe for a couple of years, so I don't know where Jay's Tatoo Art are now, but the model shop hasn't been there for maybe five years. I remember it as one of those real old-fashioned model shops, tiny, hardly any room to move and a helpful proprietor (when you found him behind the piles of stuff).

 

Nick

[J C Fenton]

Some of them are quite nice for detail. Although there is something about their looks that remind me of the Soviet "ideal worker" propaganda illustrations! :-)

 

Interesting that you should say so.  I once read somewhere that the Dapol set was based on a series of LMS publicity posters from the '30s showing railway workers.  If true, they do indeed derive from an idealised depiction of workers in art from the '30s, if not quite in the Soviet workers-as-heroes-of the proletariat mould. 

[BernardTPM]

The Dapol ones were based on the Airfix ones, but is this http://www.travelpostersonline.com/ekmps/shops/travelposters/images/the-permanent-way-relaying.-railway-travel-poster-art-print-by-lms-458-p.jpg the poster in question?

[J C Fenton]

He looks like my granddad.... then again most  chaps of a certain age at a  certain time do

You see, this is why we should be quietly proud to be British.  Rather than some superhuman Stakhanovite, our idealised '30s worker looks like someone's granddad.

[theoldmansminion]

i shall definetly get a pack on them Dapol figures.

 

 

also i 've taken the plunge and got me some of these....

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/90-X-00-GAUGE-SITTING-FIGURES-UNPAINTED-MEN-AND-WOMEN-NEW-U80-/300850826130?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item460c1b4b92

 

nice cheap, seat and carriage fillers, thers a whole load more, that hopefully they be OO, but as they're sitting....not so important

 

 

i'll keep you posted

 

 

Well, they got here, and to be perfectly honest, they really are not that bad.

 

the seller was quick, curteous, brilliant in fact.

 

the figures, are not OO, but HO, but as previously pointed out, not so impoprtant for sitting figs, 

 

well proportioned, 15 figures to a packet with 15 differnt poses, hard plastic.. better than expected

 

90 figs for £3.49, about 3 and half pence each,  bargain

 with all the other stuff i've seen just recently, i would heartily recommend them.....

 

 

hope to have pics soon

[ChrisN]

I have posted these two links before in other threads but I will do it again here as I think the figures are really good.

 

http://www.mms-models.co.uk/accessory/products_accessoryPage.php?69

 

http://www.mms-models.co.uk/accessory/products_accessoryPage.php?68

 

They are quite detailed and there is only a small amount of flash on the kit bags.  As there was conscription from the end of WW2 until the early 60s then these figures would not look out of place on any layout from the late 30s to the end of steam.  If you look in the 'Accessory Pak' link at the side then you find other figures which may be useful.  I have both of the above sets, not because they are in my time period but they looked so good I thought I ought to get them.

 

These are from another company and show soldiers standing around.

 

http://www.milicast.com/shop/product.php?productid=287&cat=153&page=2

 

Finally in the military set is a page of different items which I am sure will not be useful but the second set has a German officer with a bag looking at his watch which just gives the impression of waiting for a train. 

 

http://elhiemfigures.com/24.html#

 

There is also Friendship Models who do various scales but seem to be lacking a bit in 1/72 but I post this here out of interest.  It is a blog covering the 1/72 figures. 

 

http://72-multiverse.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/wee-friends.html

 

I do not have any of these.  I ought to say that I have no connection with any of these companies.

 

I think  most of the figures above are whitemetal so it shows what can be done.

 

I regularly read 'Plastic Soldier Review' and it it quite interesting how the quality varies from company to company and it would appear that the quality of the figures depends more on the sculpting and moulds than the material used.

[alfsboy]

The conclusion seems to be that plastic is the right material for scale figures, and white metal is not!

 

In fact, I'm struggling to think of ANY use where whitemetal is the best material ...

Its not so much the material used as the process of making them .A plastic figure starts out as 75 mm or larger master pattern or CAD and is then reduced in the metal mould process like plastic kits ..It costs  lot of money .White metal use a same size master so if the figure is 20 mm then thats how big it will be when it comes out of the mould .its much harder to make a convincing figure with all the facial detail etc at that size ,hence over sized heads rear their ugly presence.Also white metal doesnt like anything too thin .it will break easier so some parts such as animal legs on horses have to be a tad thicker to ensure it all casts correctly .Also many poses are not easy to cast in one peice so seperate arms etc have to be designed in .

[justin1985]

Its not so much the material used as the process of making them .A plastic figure starts out as 75 mm or larger master pattern or CAD and is then reduced in the metal mould process like plastic kits ..It costs  lot of money .White metal use a same size master so if the figure is 20 mm then thats how big it will be when it comes out of the mould .its much harder to make a convincing figure with all the facial detail etc at that size ,hence over sized heads rear their ugly presence.Also white metal doesnt like anything too thin .it will break easier so some parts such as animal legs on horses have to be a tad thicker to ensure it all casts correctly .Also many poses are not easy to cast in one peice so seperate arms etc have to be designed in .

 

Surely the inability to successfully be cast into thin shapes makes the material unsuitable for small scale figures!

 

It strikes me railway modelling is really prone to the "oooh we can do stuff with this material, lets make everything from it" fad approach, rather than really considering the best material for the job. In the 70s everything was whitemetal, in the 90s everything etched brass, in the 00s resin, and now everything 3D printed. As a hobby we seem too willing to explain away deficiencies of products on the difficulty of working with X material, rather than encouraging the various cottage industry producers with experience in different materials to work together to produce the best products. The very best kits are, and have always been, mixed media. Why on earth would anyone think of producing a cast worker figure, complete with cast rake or shovel? Many manufacturers do, but surely to include an etched rake with a plastic or cast figure is much better, and would probably result in fewer manufacturing failures and wastage.

 

Clearly whitemetal (or, I think, more durable pewter related alloys) works well for larger scale (primarily wargaming) figures, but despite the price advantage, and for the reasons described above, it simply isn't isnt the best material for 4mm or especially 2mm scale!

 

In 2mm we have some truly shocking Langley whitemetal figures, but N Brass Locos do steam loco crew figures in lost-wax brass, also created from final-size masters, which are much superior, demonstrating the better results from a better (if more expensive) medium. Naturally the Noch and Preiser figures, despite being 1:160, leave even these in the shade for definition and fineness of small parts, limbs etc.

 

Perhaps the time has come for 3D mastered figures to be used as the basis for lost wax figures at the cottage industry end of the market? This would combine the ability to sculpt in close detail, and cast in a superior material. Designing 3D figures is an art in its own right, but surely working with people with experience in game design or CGI could draw on existing experience. I think people only keep buying the questionable figures from Langley and the rest because they are there, and flood the market, so to speak.

[BernardTPM]

I've had parts cast lost wax brass and in whitemetal and most of the time the whitemetal showed crisper detail, though the LW brass was stronger, though perhaps 4 or 5 times the cost. It's down to how well the materials are used and the guy I was using was very good. Sadly no longer with us.