For those interested in old cars.

[BernardTPM]

9 hours ago, Owd Bob said:

Anything after 1980 is modern to me ...

But the HC Viva finished production in 1979, so it must be old,

[RJS1977]

Of course, some cars (e.g. 'proper' Mini, 'proper' Beetle, VW Type 2, Morris Minor and Land Rover 'Defender') remained in production so long (albeit with detail differences) that well before production ended, the first units off the production line were 'old' cars. Even the current MINI is approaching its 20th anniversary of production.

 

According to Wikipedia, the majority of Minis built were scrapped before production finished!

[Hobby]

20 hours ago, Phil Traxson said:

Seem to be drifting away from old cars and into modern classics, which has its own thread. Just saying!

 

 

General consensus (magazines, etc.) is that the 1980s is the cut off point and as the OP of the other thread that's what I used when I set it up. Cars launched in the early part of that decade could, in theory be in either thread (as many were designed in the 70s (e.g. the Metro)) but I'd expect them to appear in that thread rather than this one. As a 70s car the Viva HC would definitely qualify for the "older cars" thread, especially as it's tax free as well! Remember many of our members aren't even that old, Phil!

[PatB]

On 04/03/2020 at 17:01, RJS1977 said:

Of course, some cars (e.g. 'proper' Mini, 'proper' Beetle, VW Type 2, Morris Minor and Land Rover 'Defender') remained in production so long (albeit with detail differences) that well before production ended, the first units off the production line were 'old' cars. Even the current MINI is approaching its 20th anniversary of production.

 

According to Wikipedia, the majority of Minis built were scrapped before production finished!

Yes indeed. When I bought my first issue of Practical Classics (April 1981 IIRC), they were just embarking on the restoration of a very sad Mini Cooper which seemed ancient but must have been no more than 20 years old at the time. Or, from another perspective, younger than a Mini bought new on the day of publication would be when its direct descendants finally ceased production. Weird. 

[Rugd1022]

I've been faffing about and fettling with the 'red peril' this morning, tried out one of the other set of 5x10 Mk3 Cosmics, I think the colour combo works well, once the front brakes have been converted down to Cooper S spec 7.5'' discs and calipers I'll fit the full set. I took herself out in for the first time this morning too, she didn't take kindly to the harsh ride or the abysmal 'luxury recliner' Rover front seats, so something much nicer will be fitted asap...

 

 

[PhilJ W]

London 50 years ago.

https://www.londonsscreenarchives.org.uk/title/653/?fbclid=IwAR1pHN2tZnWwh6qqbGgIqNz6ankXosQI1-uhqwvADBi__0QCS2e5njc6nyA

[PatB]

5 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

London 50 years ago.

https://www.londonsscreenarchives.org.uk/title/653/?fbclid=IwAR1pHN2tZnWwh6qqbGgIqNz6ankXosQI1-uhqwvADBi__0QCS2e5njc6nyA

Wonderful footage. I like the Honda S800, the AEC Matador and the BMC Sunblest lorry (a very familiar image from my childhood) particularly.

[Kelly]

On 04/03/2020 at 09:38, Hobby said:

 

As a 70s car the Viva HC would definitely qualify for the "older cars" thread, especially as it's tax free as well! Remember many of our members aren't even that old, Phil!

 

I believe that the cut off is 1st January 1973 for tax free. A lot of post 73 cars got scrapped due to that change, so some post 73 Vivas will be harder to find these days as a result, unless they're Firenza/Magnums etc.

 

I had several HCs and a 64 HA for a while as daily drivers up to 2008 when I moved (I didn't own them, I borrowed them from a ex who didn't have room on the drive for all the Vivas he had collected at that point). Generally reliable and fun to drive, the suspension feeling much better than an equivalent Escort!

[Porkscratching]

Tax free cut off was 73 ...until recently changed to 40 yrs old, on a rolling scheme, so anything 1980 and older becomes tax exempt...

[Hobby]

The tax cut off wasn't the reason for me choosing the mid '80s as the cut off time for the other thread. The reasoning is that during that decade all the gizmos we see on our modern cars became commonplace, ABS, electronic ignition, etc., etc. That isn't to say they weren't there before, but at that point they started to be seen on "bread and butter" cars rather than just up market/sports cars. That was the reasoning that the magazine "Modern Classics" gave in their mag and I felt it was appropriate here, current model cars such as the MINI were appearing and many thought that they didn't constitute an "old" car! 

 

Had this thread just been called "for those interested in (classic?) cars" then there would have been no need for the other thread, mind! But then we'd have a heated discussion on what constitutes a "classic" car!!!

[Kingzance]

11 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

London 50 years ago.

https://www.londonsscreenarchives.org.uk/title/653/?fbclid=IwAR1pHN2tZnWwh6qqbGgIqNz6ankXosQI1-uhqwvADBi__0QCS2e5njc6nyA

How few of the vehicles captured in that short were NOT made in the UK.

[Porkscratching]

The dvla call it Historic Vehicle so I suppose you could use that term !

Obviously with a rolling on scheme, what isn't "historic" this year, becomes so next year !

[Porkscratching]

26 minutes ago, Kingzance said:

How few of the vehicles captured in that short were NOT made in the UK.

That's coz we used to actually manufacture stuff ourselves rather than buy cheap junk from China, or wherever !! 

[Kingzance]

8 minutes ago, Porkscratching said:

That's coz we used to actually manufacture stuff ourselves rather than buy cheap junk from China, or wherever !! 

Or fell to that old gag that Germanic stuff is so much better than our own versions - Plantar hair shampoo anyone? 

[MJI]

2 hours ago, Kingzance said:

How few of the vehicles captured in that short were NOT made in the UK.

 

I used to have a car assembled in Germany, gearbox from France, engine from Merseyside, but British badged.

 

Actually a European car is the more exact sense.

 

Current British built car has a German gearbox made by Zepplin.

[boxbrownie]

56 minutes ago, MJI said:

 

I used to have a car assembled in Germany, gearbox from France, engine from Merseyside, but British badged.

 

Actually a European car is the more exact sense.

 

 

A Trevcar eh? 

[rocor]

Recent post on this forum have discussed at what age is a car, an "old car". 

I have dug out this picture of the first car that I owned, and find it hard to believe that it would now be 54 years old.

[Porkscratching]

There was in recent times anyway, a garage off Caledonian Rd, that had a load of those in various conditions, the up and running ones they wanted utterly mad money for, 12 to 15 grand as i recall...

[PhilJ W]

One car I owned, many years ago was first registered in the year I was born. It was an Austin A40 Devon and would be 71 years old now.

[Northmoor]

5 hours ago, Porkscratching said:

That's coz we used to actually manufacture stuff ourselves rather than buy cheap junk from China, or wherever !! 

Ah that old myth: "We don't make anything in Britain these days".  More (quite a lot more) cars are made in Britain than Italy.  Some of the highest output car factories in Europe, are in Britain.  A bit like that other old saying: "I own a Ford/Vauxhall because I choose to buy British".  Except that until very recently, both were American companies.

[Porkscratching]

The spirit behind my comment was more along the lines of the fact that we used to have a huge manufacturing industrial base, and now we have what.? Lots of pointless coffee shops...

[Hobby]

Countries change over time, we can't compete against cheap labour in other countries so change to do what we can do better... In the UK's case as Nortmoor rightly pointed out we still produce an awful lot but we also "do" tourism (i.e. historical sights) rather well... Coffee shops replaced high street traders (being killed by supermarkets) rather than industry I think, though they tend to be outnumbered by charity shops these days!

[Northmoor]

39 minutes ago, Porkscratching said:

The spirit behind my comment was more along the lines of the fact that we used to have a huge manufacturing industrial base, and now we have what.? Lots of pointless coffee shops...

Again, I think that's a bit of a myth, created by the loss of mass labour in manufacturing.  Donald Trump persuaded the US blue collar voters that their jobs had been exported to China when in fact most of them had been automated out of existence.  Likewise Liverpudlians used to say the docks had declined because they didn't employ 50,000 people any more, although they now shift much greater tonnage than ever; they just do it with 5% of the workforce.

I accept we don't make basic widgets any more, but then the Far East can make them at a quarter of the price of anyone else.  Not that this will last forever as Chinese labour costs are rising and shortages of labour fast becoming an issue, an effect of the old One Child policy lasting a generation too long.

One of the biggest causes of loss of employment in UK manufacturing is largely a smokescreen, that of contracting out.  In the 1970s, everyone who passed through the gate at British Leyland was one of their employees.  Consider the production line (if it were still running) would now have perhaps a third of the people but produce twice the output,  Now consider that most of the machinery is likely to be maintained by the manufacturer's support personnel, so are contractors.  The cleaners, caterers and IT support (no small number in a large plant) are also contractors.  All these people work for businesses who are classed as service industries, so are not employed in manufacturing.  So when economists say manufacturing employs only about 15% of the workforce (so is relatively unimportant), there must be many of that workforce shouting at the radio/TV that it's stupid was to measure/classify employment that way: if it weren't for manufacturing, they wouldn't have a job.

[alastairq]

1 hour ago, Northmoor said:

I own a Ford/Vauxhall because I choose to buy British".  Except that until very recently, both were American companies.

 American owned, like British steel [owned by China?]....

 

Both Ford and Vauxhall were devolved companies of Ford USA and General Motors.....autonomous, since at least WW2 if not beforehand.[Last US-designed, Ford, from ground up, was probably the Ford model Y?].....

Chrysler/Rootes? But no longer...soon became PSA...Or is Chrysler actually German [bought into by Damliar/Bends?]...

Of course, I suspect now, anything with Vauxhall on it is a Peugeot....branded to suit post-brexit markets?

[Has anybody noticed the sudden surge in the advertising of products, emphasising 'British', or 'Buy British?'   Is this the death knell of broccoli??]

Now Fiats are Jeeps...as are Alfi Romeos.....My FIAT 126 Bis has an engine with lancia stamped on the block...yet made in Poland...and attracts attentions from loads of parcels guys....

 

Remember SEAT?

Used to make stuff on 'licence' from FIAT....all of a sudden SEAT had a change of direction, and started producing stuff from VW.....

However, I am unsure when VW became the dominant partner in SEAt? Because SEAT continued to produce the Marbella [Panda] after SAET divorced from FIAT [Did they get papal permission to do so, one wonders?]

 

I did discover some decades ago, that many products of British Leyland/Rover used components made by PAL in Czechoslovakia....

Somewhere, in Sri Lanka, doubtless, there's a wee fella bashing out Morris Minor hubcaps..??

 

Edited March 8, 2020 by alastairq

[Hobby]

SEAT was owned by the Spanish government until it was sold to VW in 1986.