For those interested in old cars.

[Northmoor]

12 minutes ago, MJI said:

Now to newer vehicles a common technique is to run smaller engines harder.

 

Emissions again. Those small triples with turbos in heavier cars do not last as well as less stressed larger and older engines.

 

Going back to silver car above was at 170000 when killed, engine was perfect.

 

I know of people with small turbo triples on second engines from multiple makes.

 

I would place peak IC engine design for longevity as mid 80s to mid 00s.

This was a lesson the car manufacturers learned in the late 80s and have not forgotten, but the market they are selling into doesn't care.  Larger cars - think Rover 800, Vauxhall Carlton, Ford Granada - sold well because despite being large and larger-engined, they were reasonably economical (25-35mpg isn't a problem if you don't do a big mileage) compared to the previous generation.  The engines were reliable and powerful enough to pull a tall top gear which produced the headline-making economy figures.

 

However those same OEMs also realised that there was no additional benefit in making engines last 20 years instead of 15; the extra residual value of the car was negligible when trading in against a new model from the same manufacturer.  There is also no benefit making engines last considerably longer than the supporting electronics are likely to be available.

 

[Dunsignalling]

25 minutes ago, Hobby said:

I don't have a problem adjusting to larger cars if I have to, but would rather avoid it! Having said that our latest car is an Octavia (latest version, same as Golf 8) and that is definitely larger than the 7 and the current SEAT Leon which we also looked at! No choice with the limited choice available on Motability at the beginning of last year!

If you fancy something Golf-sized, get a Polo.

 

A friend just has and its near-as-dammit the same size as her former 14-reg Golf.... 

 

John

[Dunsignalling]

53 minutes ago, alastairq said:

Hmmmm, I noticed that phenomenon with older BMWs as well.... 

Overheat a Ford or an A series and, after cooling down[and maybe blocking leak?] they were fit and ready to run once more. The BMW engines, once overheated, had to undergo [and the wallet endure] much fettling in engineering terms before they would consider even deigning to spring back to life.

I also have found [and preferred] that BHP figures are  not the be-all-&-end-all...

Especially when considering day-to-day ordinary road usage.

When we consider at what sort of rev range our normal, day-to-day driving uses, having several  hundreds of BHPeeees under the bonnet [potentially, rather than 'actually']  is all rather pointless, in my view. Especially when one considers the old adage that links horsepower to money?

 

In my 'umble opinion , the  optimal power-to-weight ratio for ordinary driving [where one is not racing, in other words, or determinedly breaking the prevailing Law?}, is around the 100 BHP per  tonne mark.

Thus, a car having a kerb weight of less than half a tonne doesn't need much more than a small, circa 50 bhp engine to provide the whole ensemble with a lively and spirited road performance!

What is the point in proudly owning a car with a top speed [estimated, subject to driver skill?] well in excess of 130mph? In the UK?

A top speed which is of doubtful use, and certainly risky from a reliability viewpoint, if sustained?

I guess, being over 70 years of age [with a mental age of 12?]....I have shed the potential desire to burn rubber simply to 'look good'...

 

Sadly, I am of the opinion that  an old technology 6 cylinder engine, of large-ish capacity is a better, more drivable motor than many of the highly strung , electronically controlled current offerings?

Whose only disadvantage when compared to modern offering lies solely in the realm of fuel consumption?

The current longevity [wear & tear] issues compared to old engines lies [also in my 'umble view] in the improvements in machine tool control during manufacture.

 

Cars with a kerb weight of half a ton may be limited to the Caterham 7 these days!

 

I just Googled the kerb weight of the current Ford Fiesta and it lists a range of 1136 to 1284kg! The 120+Bhp of the hotter 1-litre triple therefore gives roughly 100bhp/ton....

 

I tend to agree that's enough for general driving, though I'd prefer the same power delivered from something bigger and lazier...

 

My 2-litre diesel Skoda Yeti weighs "only" 1452kg  by comparison, but develops 170bhp and goes quite quickly enough for what I need/want!

 

John 

Edited December 31, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[MJI]

3 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Cars with a kerb weight of half a ton may be limited to the Caterham 7 these days!

 

I just Googled the kerb weight of the current Ford Fiesta and it lists a range of 1136 to 1284kg! The 120+Bhp of the hotter 1-litre triple therefore gives roughly 100bhp/ton....

 

I tend to agree that's enough for general driving, though I'd prefer the same power delivered from something bigger and lazier...

 

John 

I had  a Carlton.

 

1200kg, large, aerodynamic,  over 120bhp. I liked it. The 2.0 motronic injection lump was great

 

My last hatch was 900kg and carried a cast iron pushrod lump of around 115bhp. The toy engine was under 900kg but was desperately underpowered.

 

[PhilJ W]

4 hours ago, MJI said:

Biggest issue now  is the rise in short life and unreliable engines.

Its usually the electrics that send quite new cars to the scrap heap. 

[Rugd1022]

I could have posted this in the Buses thread....!

 

[MJI]

2 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

Its usually the electrics that send quite new cars to the scrap heap. 

 

Depends on the car, a few years ago and certain makes definitely. mid to late 00s especially.

 

Now engines are likely to fail due to being too small and too fragile (eg Ford triple).

 

I have now moved on to a 4x4 from a well known British manufacturer.

 

The model I have is the last model pre Ford designed, it is lasting well, trip reliable but has odd problems due to 2003.

 

BUT it has full spares availabilty still.

 

And the engine is one of their most reliable (mid 90s design).

 

Now found after 8 years it is worth what I paid for it.

 

Overheating, been there done that, pipe failed (age) lost about half coolant, went onto a power restricted mode and code readered at 115 degrees.

 

Left it for 30 minutes, filled back up, fine. Would many modern engines survive a leaking hose?

 

Even the hose was bodagable until I fitted a new one.

[Hobby]

3 hours ago, MJI said:

Overheating, been there done that, pipe failed (age) lost about half coolant, went onto a power restricted mode and code readered at 115 degrees.

 

Left it for 30 minutes, filled back up, fine. Would many modern engines survive a leaking hose?

 

What you describe is what would happen on any modern car anyhow, and it didn't "survive a leaking hose" as such, the modern electronics stopped a leaking hose becoming terminal.

[great central]

Regarding overheating and older engines, many years ago I bought a Ford Corsair 2000E at auction as a short term runabout.

Paid £50 including indemnity fee for it with about 4 months MOT and no sills(!) left.

It was so worn I could remove the key with the ignition still on, not steering locked, but after a couple of weeks it developed a leak from the radiator. Originally brown it had been painted red and then black, possibly with a brush.

The temperature gauge didn't inform particularly well how hot the engine was getting so I diverted the overflow pipe to point out of a corner of the bonnet.

When the engine was getting too warm there would be a short splutter of water from the overflow followed by a plume of steam. That was the signal to pull over and refill the radiator. Waiting a few minutes for the steam to abate, it was then refilled with water straight from a can (cold), sometimes you could hear it boiling as it went round the engine, wait another few minutes, start her up and continue the journey.

I was driving daily from near Nottingham to Grimsby for a fortnight so this happened a good few times, never any problems.

Took it to another auction to sell and got my £50 back before it hit the auction floor! Little over a month's MOT and still no sills but someone happily drove it away. I made a swift exit!

[PhilJ W]

I remember when there used to be shops selling car spares. Everything from oil filters to complete exhaust systems. One thing most of them carried was what was known as a 'dog turd' from its appearance not for any other reason. If you had a leaky rad you crumbled one into the radiator and it blocked the leak(s).

[alastairq]

These past couple of years, I have seen the old 'crack an egg into the radiator' stunt tried by a skilled diesel fitter! Simply to see if it stopped a cooling system losing coolant.  It worked....But it was essentially purely an 'experiment'....mainly to try to isolate & identify a 'cause'...Ford Cross flow, i think it was...or maybe a Series Land Rover?

 

Was it TopGear who promoted the description, ''Bush Mechanic?''

 

Indeed, I think there used to be millions of 'bush mechanics' floating around the UK in times past? I also think it is an epithet which has long since died out in the motoring world, where one calls the Oi OI to change a punctured wheel?

 

I am saddened to lose sight of the basics, hidden behind great walls of perhaps unnecessary technology...applied only to keep the masses happy, and from killin' themselves, or chokin' to deaath?

 

Personally, my future ideal car would be, one that can easily & simply be repaired should something brak, or cease to function...repaired with basic mechanic's tools, with little in the way of plastic boxes inside which  some tiny bit of a chip has gone wonky.

I don't need these supah-bright fancy-pansy headlights to see with....or aircon, since I'm not driving through arid deserts....[I can open windows..I do, anyway, as I prefer fresh air to doctored air when breathing]...I don't need to be 'taken care of' should summat hit me....[Likely down to me allowing it to do so, for the purposes of screwing their insurance for a 'new' banger to play with?}...I like seat belts, but airbags get in the way of simple maintenance.....

I would prefer something that I don't have to fold myself double to get into or out of..This is an age-related thing, and didn't apply until I was well into my 50's....20-odd years ago, too....!

I don't want expensive, or hard-to-obtain tyres..I don't want silly things like DPFs , or those stupid, anti-motoring things like dual mass flywheels....or multiple clutches..[one is good enough for me]...or gearboxes that purport to be 'automatic', yet contrive to have so much in the way of obscure technology as to be unaffordable when they do actually fail.  The Ford C4 auto is really about my limit.....affordable to service and repair, easy enough to repair as well.....not like those things that have emanated fromteh likes of VW or other modernistic trash?

 

If a car [or vehicle..our Queen, [bless her] referred to her Land Rover series as her 'car', so why could  not do so?], cannot survive crossing Africa, or the wilds of Chile, without having to be rescued by expensive recovery for what may be a simple fault, then I'm not interested!

 

Oh, to be reet, I can't get behind the steering wheel of a series Land Rover, for physical reasons....at least, not without sacrificing the comfort of a driving seat!

I cannot even get in or out of a civilian version of a Defender Land Rover with any real dignity..and certainly cannot sit in the rear seats of a Land Rover Defender 4 door 'station wagon' in the approved manner,sitting at right angles to the seat itself....there is insufficient room for someone of my stature...

I mention 'civilian' version, as they are encumbered with all sorts of plaggy trim that simply gets in my way....I got used to inserting myself into the Military versions [which all had stout roll cages which meant, a size 11 work boot could not slide past when getting in or out the doors, without twisting one's foot....Size 10s just about managed a straight exit, with care.....but once in, the total lack of door trim,or wheel arch trim, meant at least I could wriggle about to find a comfy spot. I had a technique with the driver's seat adjustment which allowed my XXXL frame to sit reasonably comfortably behind the steering wheel too....not in the Land Rover manuals, I hasten to add...but it was a useful technique to advise the taller service personnel on how to cope with what they saw as ''kwapp''...

Thankfully, the military embraced the Toyota HiLux [Taliban specials?]....and Toyota Land Cruisers [armoured, they weighed over 4 1/2 tonnes]...for our furrin station personnel....

Although if three of us civvies had to sit in the back seats, along with me, a window had to be opened so at least part of my body mass could hang outside...arm, shoulder, etc....Great in the wintertime! [For the others, that is]

 

So, what to chose..or rather, aim my sights for?

 

I have a 4trak.....useful as it's easy for a stiff old OAP to get in or out of.

Seat the right height...a Defender [military] being just an inch or so too high for my backside to float in horizontally]...Manages around 30 mpgs on diesel or similar.....engine lasts for  a quarter million miles before overhaul might be needed...Mine is at around 195000 currently...Always starts, if the regime is followed...won't otherwise!!  Tyres are big, but can be had for around 50 quid a throw,but, if tracking corrected, will last my lifetime..[the rears have, thus far...the fronts, not quite so]..spares are cheap and available from the likes of Milner Off Road in Durbisheer...

Mine is pretty much all welded up now...just found a bit more to do to keep MoT tester happy,however.....

 

Then there's my current 02 suzuki Vitara [Grand.... what's that all about?]....It's sills are quite frilly, on the outside..but the=is is hidden behind plastic covers, so the MoT man cannot see it, so it keeps passing the test. A 2 litre petrol, it is a bit more sprightly than the 4trak [or, most other traffic I come across...but maybe that's just the drivers?].....but it's comfy enough to get in or out of, a bit of a pain on my left foot though..it has a foot rest, which I have unbolted...but the mounts still get in the way of my left foot.

It has some nice mod cons, plenty of inside lights [to flatten the battery if I leave a door ajar]....has 4wd and a chassis should I happen to need it [as does the 4Trak!]....It has needed ongoing maintenance...usually to meet the moT standards.....brake ppes, sus[pension arms, links, brake pads, and I[ve had to go round re-threading all the wheel studs and nuts since some clown with a windy gun was allowed to put the wheels on & off, shaggin' the threads up.....5 quid for a tap & die set has started to cure those. Tyres can be had for under 40 quid a throw....

However, the tax costs me 30 quid a month....which is almost a tenner a month more than the 4trak! Which has an engine of 2.8 litres or more cpaapcity!

 

100 plus bhp for the 4rtak [4500 rpm limit!]....125 bhp-plus on the suzuki..[screemin'jeezazz rpm limit]

Both can tow [which is a good reason for me] the 4trak limited to 3500 tonnes behind the two bar, the suzuki quite a bit less.

 

Both have taken me reliably from one end of this country to the other and back again.....both cost less than a grand [the suzuki around 500 notes] Both also doing so, towing my small car trailer..... 

 

I am looking at a Reliant Kitten, however,  as I now prefer small engined, very light cars to work on.....my ability to lift engine blocks single handed having long since dissipated. 

I also need a motor that can be worked on outside in the cold & damp, as I don't have a garage [as such] to do anything other than keep my motors 'covered'...

So that pretty much rules out anything made in the last 15 years or so, I suspect?

 

Currently my Mustang, despite being a '67, is proving to be the cheapest & most reliable car to date, ticking most of my 'boxes'....Spares not an issue, thanks to Rock Auto....[just had a flyer, they're floggin' off dealers-going-bust stock...a set of disc pads for my car less than 7 quid a box, reputable maker too!]

Easy enough to work on...but unfortunately I feel compelled [by others?] to keep it looking 'pretty'...

 

Needs lots of 'small jobs' doing to satisfy my high standards.....but unfortunately for it, it still keeps on starting when required....stops well too, corners better than any BMW, 20-od mpgs, tax free, MoT exempt, tyres can be cheap as well [from Camskill]...

Unfortunately it has acquired a 'value' like southern haouse prices...silly beyond my belief.

Plus, it attract too much attention for my liking...I have to continually be ''nice & polite'' to interested people for my liking. I have to make an effort to stop myself scowling  at the world outside.....

In the Daihatsu I can scowl away merrily, and nobody seems to worry....It is a rather decent ''eff-off'' sort of vehicle...

 

Interestingly, they all have a half decent heater....which I find these days is 'nice'...

Now, if I could find a cheap enough post WW2 Dodge Powerwagon, civilian version...I'd be quite happy I think? Might annoy the rest of Tesco's car park, perhaps, though?

 

https://www.dodgepowerwagon.com/

 

For those who don;t understand the meaning of 'butt-ugly?''

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 1, 2022 by alastairq

[alastairq]

 

 

This is what happens when one parks ones Dodge Powerwagon next to a lamp post?

[Oldddudders]

26 minutes ago, alastairq said:

These past couple of years, I have seen the old 'crack an egg into the radiator' stunt tried by a skilled diesel fitter! Simply to see if it stopped a cooling system losing coolant.  It worked.

ISTR Holts used to cover all bases by selling both Radflush and Radweld!

[PhilJ W]

47 minutes ago, alastairq said:

I am looking at a Reliant Kitten, however,  as I now prefer small engined, very light cars to work on.....my ability to lift engine blocks single handed having long since dissipated. 

I also need a motor that can be worked on outside in the cold & damp, as I don't have a garage [as such] to do anything other than keep my motors 'covered'...

So that pretty much rules out anything made in the last 15 years or so, I suspect?

I had a Reliant Kitten, the van version no less (very rare). I gave up and sold it on when I realised that I was no longer physically able to do the necessary to get it back on the road. It was not the lifting that was the problem but getting underneath it without a vehicle lift.

[boxbrownie]

50 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

ISTR Holts used to cover all bases by selling both Radflush and Radweld!

Barr’s Leaks……that was the original one.

[alastairq]

54 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

. It was not the lifting that was the problem but getting underneath it without a vehicle lift.

 A chum of mine got one of these a few years ago, when they were 1100 pensionquids..I drove him down there with my trailer to pick it up...it was bloomin' heavy!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334214557064?hash=item4dd0bd6d88:g:VtYAAOSw-sVb~VIQ

 

Actually, for an older person, a very useful bit of motor kit?

It can be stored more or less flat [underneath one of one's old vehicles??] and is controllable.

 He found it most comfortable to work at, allowing him, for the most part, to sit on a  chair whilst working on the 4 corners, and allowed him to do most jobs needed to a series LandRover!

He recommended getting some of those tall adjustable jacking posts too, for extra peace of mind when working or hammering away underneath. [Like builders use?}

However, 1500 pensionsmackers may be beyond some of us more pernicious   impecunious pensioners these days?

 

If I were looking for a tool to assist me as I get more ancient and infirm, the above is perhaps one of the things I'd be looking at?

Especially as I currently have nowhere flat to erect a twin post lift?

 

If used with a Reliant Kitten, it may be wise to avoid windy days?

 

Oh, and maybe one of those electric jockey wheel tugs, to move the above around as needed....?   Better than heaving and shoving?

 

 

Edited January 1, 2022 by alastairq

[peanuts]

2 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

ISTR Holts used to cover all bases by selling both Radflush and Radweld!

they still do radweld is one of our regular sellers out to garages and shops both 

[stewartingram]

Oooh I would love one of those lifts!

 

For many years I've thought about modifying car ramps with some angle iron and a welder. Basically extend the ramps lengthwise so the entire car could be driven onto them and be level. Is that feasible?

[alastairq]

8 minutes ago, stewartingram said:

Oooh I would love one of those lifts!

 

For many years I've thought about modifying car ramps with some angle iron and a welder. Basically extend the ramps lengthwise so the entire car could be driven onto them and be level. Is that feasible?

Feasible , yes! 

 

Whether it would be worth it? Not so sure?

The problem with ramps in the main [and what is being suggested here?] is the lack of easy access to the underside of the vehicle, from the sides?

It can be a loooong way underneath, even on a trolley, to slide under to most bits, from the ends?

Plus, what if a wheel needs to be lifted or supported independently, for suspension or brake purposes?

 

There is a see-saw vehicle lift which looks like a set of car ramps to start with, available....somewhere...Ingenious, but needs a fair length of decent solid driveway to operate.

http://www.carstages.com/

 

https://www.restorationramps.co.uk/

 

Any use?

[alastairq]

On the same sub-topic, I read of someone [on YouTube, as it happens] who saved money on a purpose-built vehicle roller/tilt frame [to access the undersides of a bodyshell], he used a couple of the much much cheaper engine supports, that can support an engine, and rotate it for ease of access.

He fabricated a framework to bolt to the engine cradle/support stand...one at each end, attached to the car's bodyshell, and it apparently worked very well indeed....for the fraction of the cost of a purpose built body tilter.

 It stands to reason this arrangement will have some limitations when compared to a purpose-made jobbie, but, all the same, it allows access underneath with a welder!  It might be recommended to remove all heavy running gear, axles, etc first....which might well be the case, whatever method is used to access the underside of the bodyshell or chassis?

There will also be weight limitations, as with purpose built tilters.

The fella in question used it to tilt a VW beetle chassis/shell successfully...so for a small car it might prove worthwhile?

I believe the cheapest [and most lightweight] tilters are available in the 400-800 pension quid mark? 

However, by using a couple of engine stands, one can use them for their original purpose again quite easily?  Whereas a purpose built car tilter is limited in other uses.?

I paid around 60 of my pensionquids for my engine stands....chosen specifically for it's broad range of adjustment, owing to it having to support  a Ford sidevalve engine, which has a quite wide set of bolt holes on the bell housing.  Some stands do not allow the mounting bolts to stretch far enough apart.

 

I would also consider a bit of fabrication to make the stands a bit more stable as well....a bit of steel, and some supporting feet of some sort, if used as a body tilter?

Not suitable for Jagwars or other types of lorry!

[Rugd1022]

Stratford-upon-Avon in 1971....

 

[stewartingram]

That 2nd one, the homebuild plans, certainly looks interesting. When I've finished my present, somewhat urgent, task**, I think I'll send for those.

Thanks, Stewart.

 

** 2 weeks ago I had my main cambelt go, meant a trip from near Doncaster courtesy of the AA. Being a Rover 75 V6, there are 3 belts, and damage to the cylinder heads. I bought the car 3 years ago at c90k, asked about the belts being changed (due at 90K), was told the dealer thought so but no proof so I expected to do them. But when I got home I found the invoice for them. Now done 123k, and on stripping down everything appears original factory build and an absolute mess!. But, it is what it is, I'm doing the repairs.

Edited January 1, 2022 by stewartingram

[boxbrownie]

22 minutes ago, Rugd1022 said:

Stratford-upon-Avon in 1971....

 

Nice little Fiat Coupe slipped in there……

[alastairq]

I've always liked those FIAT 850 coupes.

Not bad performers either!

Especially the  Abarth versions!

What always amazed me was how BMC-or-whatever-one called it, really did miss the bus when it came to making improvements to their existing [sporty] designs?

I don't know the FIAT coupé's style designer [ I knew Bert One designed the spidder]...but somehow FIAT seemed to produce far prettier sports cars than BMC?

I can only imagine how nice it would have been for Austin Healey to have got an Italian designer to produce a coupe on its running gear? 

I know about the Innocenti Spider[better looking than the Midget] and the coupe[somehow not so good looking as the spidder?}

But the FIAT coupe seems to me to be so well balanced-looking?

[Mind, I often wonder what might have happened had BMC taken the minivan, and produced a more useable van as Suzuki did, later with the Supercarry? I once owned a Supercarry...it had the one litre engine, 5 speed gearbox, and even had a lorry-like chassis, with RWD.... stout, useful load carrying capacity, everything the minivan wasn't!

  Except for the fuel consumption...I rarely got much over 30 mpgs..

Whereas a minivan competed well against most motorcycle combinations of the day [at close to 50 mpgs]...... a category of vehicle the minivan more or less sank into oblivion....especially without purchase tax!

[steve1]

My Dad’s first brand new vehicle was a Minivan in the early 1960s. It had a bench seat in the back but no windows. He was stopped and warned a couple of times for exceeding the van speed limit, that existed at the time, much to his annoyance!

 

The reg was 810 NHY, now long gone.

 

steve