For those interested in old cars.

[Northmoor]

24 minutes ago, russ p said:

 

If rovers original new generation mini had made production with k series and before anyone starts screaming head gasket its actually no worse than most fiats of the time and has been sorted completely now. Then there would have been some bloodline shared with the  original as Issigonis first came up with the engine architecture of the engine.  I would have probably had one now but unfortunately no matter how good or not they may be the sum up what BMW did to rover . With hindsight such a shame they couldn't have been left with BAe and Honda 

Considering they are one of very few bits of the former Rover Group empire still in existence and until recently they couldn't build them fast enough (and they depreciate very slowly), the BMW Mini has to be one of the major successes of the post-Austin Rover era.  I say this as one brought up with BL products which seemed to be nowhere near as bad as claimed, mostly by those who'd never driven any of them.

[russ p]

2 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

Considering they are one of very few bits of the former Rover Group empire still in existence and until recently they couldn't build them fast enough (and they depreciate very slowly), the BMW Mini has to be one of the major successes of the post-Austin Rover era.  I say this as one brought up with BL products which seemed to be nowhere near as bad as claimed, mostly by those who'd never driven any of them.

 

Had the new mini have been part of the rover line up I would probably have been a fan but I do wonder how much of its success has been down to it being a BMW and the British publics obsession for buying German cars because they are not British 

I never ever think of my MGF as being a BMW which technically it is to me it's an Austin rover parts bin special and that's what I love about it.  Anyway its ancestory goes back to the MGD of the 1960s long before BMW was any kind of success in Britain 

[Hobby]

11 hours ago, Northmoor said:

I say this as one brought up with BL products which seemed to be nowhere near as bad as claimed, mostly by those who'd never driven any of them.

 

Completely agree, I was another brought up with BMC/BL products as Dad's work used their products for their commercial travellers, all versions of the Cambridge, then several Maxis (one of them an early one with cable gear change that did 150k trouble free miles) and finally ended up with Allegros. Looked after they were fine, just like other cars of the era. The main problem was getting one that had been put together well, but that applied to Fords, Vauxhalls and the rest in that era.

[boxbrownie]

13 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

 

Unless he means one of those BMW monstrosities.

The first time we had a “Mini” (BMW) in for teardown everyone was amazed that it was only a couple of inches less width than the contemporary Land Rover Discovery (I think it was the Mk2 then) we even had a query from above stating the chaps should recheck their measurements, these are engineers who measured in micrograms and thou’mm 

[boxbrownie]

But whatever your views on the BMW Mini you have to acknowledge it is a good car, and what’s more it is MADE IN BRITAIN which was a major “written in stone” part of the ethos by BMW management, they understood the how much the heritage of the Mini was important to world markets.

 

I’ve driven several on loan and frankly I don’t like them, as they turn the origins DNA inside out quite literally, Issigonis designed it as a tardis, BMW have done the opposite........but it is a good, fun car. 

[PhilJ W]

Internal space on modern cars is generally poor. My car is larger than the Anglia Estate I had 40 years ago yet despite less space being given to the mechanicals (traverse engine) there is far less space inside. I carried a dining room suite in the Anglia at one time with the front passenger seat occupied. When I look around my current car you can see why with all the heavy door pillars, heavier and stronger seats, headrests and heavier padding. The last item, heavier padding also refers to myself and most of the occupants. I know which car I would rather be in in the case of a bad smash.

[Kickstart]

28 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

But whatever your views on the BMW Mini you have to acknowledge it is a good car, and what’s more it is MADE IN BRITAIN which was a major “written in stone” part of the ethos by BMW management, they understood the how much the heritage of the

Many are not now. Made in the Netherlands , and at one time Austria as well.

 

All the best

 

Katy

[big jim]

1 hour ago, boxbrownie said:

I’ve driven several on loan and frankly I don’t like them, as they turn the origins DNA inside out quite literally, Issigonis designed it as a tardis, BMW have done the opposite........but it is a good, fun car. 

 

I totally agree with you on that, as you know I’ve got 2 of the original BMW monstrosities on my drive and regularly get brand new ones as hire cars and I find there is no more room in a 2020 model than in my 2003 one, bigger pillars, more airbags, seats etc, mine is still more than capable of taking myself and my dad without rubbing shoulders 

 

my brother in law used to work for rover at longbridge in the offices, when BMW took over he moved to Cowley on the design team for the new mini convertible, dodging a bullet when they shut that place down, my sister ended up as production line manager at cowley, they now live out in LA where he works for space X 

[Kingzance]

My first BL “bolide” was a 1969 MGB GT, followed by a 74 P6 Rover V8 and then a 78 Rover SD1. None were faultless but certainly were no worse than Ford or Vauxhall’s UK production of the same time. At least the two V8s had some oomph about them. Many company wheels then followed. My next Ex-BL car was a 620tdi Rover but it would be stretching it to suggest it was a British design. Today, global supply lines mean nothing is likely to have been “made in Britain”.

[Rugd1022]

Here's something unusual - a '67 Mercury Cougar with the roof of a '67 Mustang fastback grafted on, and no it's not a photoshop, or a Shelby Mustang in disguise (some of these had the same sequential tailights as the Cougar)....

 

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2020 by Rugd1022

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, Kickstart said:

Many are not now. Made in the Netherlands , and at one time Austria as well.

 

All the best

 

Katy

It is true that manufacturing had to expand to meet demand, but for a very long time now (still seems a quite new car, very strange) they had been made here.

 

Not quite sure what the percentages are actually but I am sure some bright spark will be able (or willing) to find out 

[Kickstart]

4 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

It is true that manufacturing had to expand to meet demand, but for a very long time now (still seems a quite new car, very strange) they had been made here.

 

Not quite sure what the percentages are actually but I am sure some bright spark will be able (or willing) to find out 

This article suggests in 2017 that 60% of Minis were built in Oxford

 

https://europe.autonews.com/article/20180627/ANE/180629822/bmw-s-dutch-mini-production-provides-brexit-hedge

 

My step mother and sister both bough Minis about 5 years ago within dats of each other. One was built in Oxford (Cooper) the other in the Netherlands (Cooper S)

 

All the best

 

Katy

[russ p]

1 hour ago, Kingzance said:

My first BL “bolide” was a 1969 MGB GT, followed by a 74 P6 Rover V8 and then a 78 Rover SD1. None were faultless but certainly were no worse than Ford or Vauxhall’s UK production of the same time. At least the two V8s had some oomph about them. Many company wheels then followed. My next Ex-BL car was a 620tdi Rover but it would be stretching it to suggest it was a British design. Today, global supply lines mean nothing is likely to have been “made in Britain”.

 

620tdi has an excellent engine,  100% British L series also fitted to some Honda's.  Based on the perkins prima from the sherpa and maestro 

[duncan]

In the late '80s, we had a golf.  It was always in the garage.  Everyone else I knew who had one had horror stories as well.  My first car (early / mid '90s) was my mother's cast off 4/5 yr old polo.  Spent most weekends cutting out rust.  Neither dad or I ever bought a vw again. 

[Northmoor]

1 hour ago, duncan said:

In the late '80s, we had a golf.  It was always in the garage.  Everyone else I knew who had one had horror stories as well.  My first car (early / mid '90s) was my mother's cast off 4/5 yr old polo.  Spent most weekends cutting out rust.  Neither dad or I ever bought a vw again. 

When Dad had one of our Montegos in the garage back in the 80s, a Golf was brought in on a recovery truck.  Dad asked the mechanic if they were genuinely more reliable than Austin Rovers.  Not based on my experience, was his reply.

 

I wonder whether "reliable" makes tend to sell to people who won't do any maintenance to their cars, so think if they buy a Honda or VW they can get away with it.  Anecdotes like these suggest they don't.  But then I've certainly known many people spend eye-watering amounts on new cars, because "second hand cars won't be reliable".  They are terrified of the tiny risk of a breakdown, even though they have cover for that anyway.  It appears many of them value their time at something like £1000/hr.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Northmoor

[MJI]

18 hours ago, russ p said:

 

If rovers original new generation mini had made production with k series and before anyone starts screaming head gasket its actually no worse than most fiats of the time and has been sorted completely now. Then there would have been some bloodline shared with the  original as Issigonis first came up with the engine architecture of the engine.  I would have probably had one now but unfortunately no matter how good or not they may be the sum up what BMW did to rover . With hindsight such a shame they couldn't have been left with BAe and Honda 

 

 

BMW really cut back new stuff at Rover group and also Land Rover.

 

K was good when not bean countered

Was two new Diesel engine ranges under development, ended up with one 5 cylinder lump and a 2.0 lump used in India.

 

Just replaced Rover group engines with their own, even if not better.

 

Ford not that much better with JLR. Except engines have an extra level of breaking

[MJI]

7 hours ago, Hobby said:

 

Completely agree, I was another brought up with BMC/BL products as Dad's work used their products for their commercial travellers, all versions of the Cambridge, then several Maxis (one of them an early one with cable gear change that did 150k trouble free miles) and finally ended up with Allegros. Looked after they were fine, just like other cars of the era. The main problem was getting one that had been put together well, but that applied to Fords, Vauxhalls and the rest in that era.

 

I really liked the late Rootes group cars Avengers and Sunbeams.

 

Comfort was excellent, handled well and 1600cc engine was great.

 

Don't slag them off, only problem was rust.

 

6 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

The first time we had a “Mini” (BMW) in for teardown everyone was amazed that it was only a couple of inches less width than the contemporary Land Rover Discovery (I think it was the Mk2 then) we even had a query from above stating the chaps should recheck their measurements, these are engineers who measured in micrograms and thou’mm 

 

Been there parked next to one, and I am the person driving a so called large 4x4

 

3 hours ago, russ p said:

 

620tdi has an excellent engine,  100% British L series also fitted to some Honda's.  Based on the perkins prima from the sherpa and maestro 

 

The 2 replacements for the L series would both be better than the BMW Diesels, pity only the one engine from one range hit the UK market.

 

The Rover 2.0 16V Diesel would have been a BMW beater.

I have the LR 5 cylinder lump and it is excellent.

[Porcy Mane]

Zip this film forward to about 23:30 to see how British cars were exported from Hull in 1963. There's a good bit of rail interest earlier in the film too.

 

https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-the-port-of-hull-1963-online

 

P

 

[MJI]

1 hour ago, Northmoor said:

When Dad had one of our Montegos in the garage back in the 80s, a Golf was brought in on a recovery truck.  Dad asked the mechanic if they were genuinely more reliable than Austin Rovers.  Not based on my experience, was his reply.

 

I wonder whether "reliable" makes tend to sell to people who won't do any maintenance to their cars, so think if they buy a Honda or VW they can get away with it.  Anecdotes like these suggest they don't.  But then I've certainly known many people spend eye-watering amounts on new cars, because "second hand cars won't be reliable".  They are terrified of the tiny risk of a breakdown, even though they have cover for that anyway.  It appears many of them value their time at something like £1000/hr.

 

I get the pee taken out of me for having my car in a  garage or being worked on at home.

 

So chassis welding on a 16 year old car is a problem?

A service?

Replacement of 16 year old worn parts (eg steering box seal failed) with new or refurbished parts?

Fitting new brake pads?

 

Will the pee takers cars be on the road at 16?

 

Oh and one of them moaned that his brand new car had no climate control, he did not even test drive it! Everyone else had climate.

 

I am also tempted to spend £4000 on a new chassis.

[Nick C]

20 minutes ago, MJI said:

I am also tempted to spend £4000 on a new chassis.

 

Panic buying, Land-Rover style! 

[boxbrownie]

37 minutes ago, MJI said:

Ford not that much better with JLR. Except engines have an extra level of breaking

But if you want to buy a Jaguar it’s accepted wisdom always to buy one post Ford takeover, the money that was poured in was out of all proportion to the return but the US wanted the badge, and wanted quality to go with it, Ford sent in a lot of Ford mid management “big stick wackers” to stir the staid and furrowed ways of the old Jaguar production management.

 

Did the same with AM......but the less said about that the better 

[Hobby]

1 hour ago, MJI said:

Don't slag them off, only problem was rust.

 

I wasn't. I was just pointing out that all British run of the mill cars were much of a muchness and that a makes had similar issues. 

[Kickstart]

2 hours ago, Northmoor said:

When Dad had one of our Montegos in the garage back in the 80s, a Golf was brought in on a recovery truck.  Dad asked the mechanic if they were genuinely more reliable than Austin Rovers.  Not based on my experience, was his reply.

 

I wonder whether "reliable" makes tend to sell to people who won't do any maintenance to their cars, so think if they buy a Honda or VW they can get away with it.  Anecdotes like these suggest they don't.  But then I've certainly known many people spend eye-watering amounts on new cars, because "second hand cars won't be reliable".  They are terrified of the tiny risk of a breakdown, even though they have cover for that anyway.  It appears many of them value their time at something like £1000/hr.

Reliability can mean different things. Which is more reliable, the car that has 5 failures each costing £100, or the one with 1 failure costing £1000?
 

Also seems to be quite a bit of self denial. If your BMW goes wrong then, oh that is unusual, don’t worry, still buy another (despite the fact it is a common but unacknowledged problem on that model). If the same happens on a (say) French car then “what did you expect buying French” even if it is a virtually unknown problem.

 

My experience of German cars reliability has been underwhelming. 

 

All the best

 

Katy

 

 

[boxbrownie]

My experience of reliable cars has been with modern versions from maybe 2005 on never had a breakdown on Lexus, BMW, Mercedes......but have had issues with modern Land Rovers (niggling faults but some that made the vehicle US), older Citroen (XM in particular)......otherwise modern seem fine.

[stewartingram]

In our (very helpful) owners club, we have members that are guys driving breakdown trucks. Aperently the most common make recovered on breakdowns is.....BMW.

The Rover 75s I've had are from the BMW era. (Actually the 3rd one I've owned, the 1st did 330k miles, its replacement only lasted a year due to a (technically) insurance write off, being replaced by the present one.  I've always done 99% of my own maintenance, whatever it is, only putting it into a garage lately due to my age, when I can't be bothered to tackle it myself. Funny how the majority of any faults I've had have been BMW related though - usually parts that are common to the BMW range or small parts (like electrical connectors) with BMW moulded on them. The early R75s were designed with virtually no expense limit, but the bean counters later changed that. I wouldn't swap mine (an early model) for any other car available to purchase today. Still, it is (in relative terms) a youngster at 90k miles & a '53 plate.

 

Stewart