For those interested in old cars.

[Horsetan]

I used to pass the Bristol showroom on the way to/from my first job, at the Motorail terminal at Kensington Olympia. It was at the west end of Kensington High Street, on the corner of Addison Road IIRC.

It's still there.

[runs as required]

Having never really understood Bristol cars. 

I’ve managed to Wiki my way out of confusion about

Interestingly the story begins (and partly ends) on narrow ‘standard’ gauge rails.

 

1875

Sir George White 1854 -1916 built up the standard gauge Bristol Tramways through the late 19C, continuing to expand and merge until he also controlled Imperial Tramways (including the Corris Railway) and London United tramways.

1906

Bristol Tramways opened its first motor bus routes.

1908

dissatisfied with its Thornycroft buses Bristol Tramways began building its own Bristol buses in the tramsheds in 1908.

1910

White formed the Bristol Aeroplane Company with his brother and son - G Stanley White - as a separate company. The companies shared the same scroll badge and were located in the tram sheds at Filton and Brislington.

1916

the Bristol Fighter consolidates the company as a major player in the aviation industry.

1919

After each World War the Bristol Aeroplane Company tried to diversify – into an unsuccessful Bristol Monobloc cyclecar after WW1

1945

at the end of WWII, more systematically, Sir G Stanley White the Bristol Aeroplane Company chairman set up a Car Division headed by son George S. M. They bought a controlling stake in Frazer Nash (AFN) which before the war had built the “Frazer Nash B.M.W.”

With the support of the War Reparations Board, H. J. Aldington a Director of FN and a wartime Ministry of Aircraft Production inspector at Bristol went off to Munich. He returned with the BMW chief designer Fritz Fiedler and the rights to manufacture three BMW models and the 328 engine at the new factory at Filton Aerodrome.

1947

Bristol and Aldington fell out in January, AFN was sold off and Bristol went its own way introducing the 400 then later the 401

1954 & 1955

Bristol 450 cars at Le Mans win both the 2 litre class and the team prize

1959

Bristol Aeroplane Company merge with others into the British Aircraft Corporation (airframes), later British Aerospace, while the engines including the car division became Bristol-Siddeley Engines.

1960  

Bristol-Siddeley decide to axe the car division. Sir George S.M.White (the tramking’s grandson) buys it as Bristol Cars Ltd. with Tony Crook, the London agent with Kensington High Street showroom, acquiring 40 % and sole Distributor rights.

1961

Switch from Bristol to Chrysler engines.

1973

Sir George White (never recovering from crashing his 410 in 1969) eventually sells his share to Anthony Crook who thereafter directs Bristol Cars from the Kensington showroom until 1997 when aged 77, he sells 50%.

2007

Crook finally withdraws.

2011

Bristol Cars under administration  – with the loss of 22 jobs.

Bought by Kamkorp who claim their Frazer-Nash Project Pinnacle will be a long range electric GT hybrid.

This seems not to be the old AFN car company but has morphed out of Archie Frazer-Nash’s (note the hyphen) longer surviving military engineering consultancy.

 

 

Meanwhile back to the rails…

1967

prototype 4000hp Kestrel co-co diesel electric loco built by Hawker Siddeley (as Bristol Siddeley had become) at Brush Loughborough.

With a single Sulzer V16 it was intended to comply with BR’s type 5 specification but its axle loading exceeded BR’s limits, despite being refitted with type 47 bogies.

1971

Sold off to Russia

1993

Broken up.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_George_White,_1st_Baronet

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_Omnibus_Company

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_Cars

 

http://www.frazer-nash.com/

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_HS4000

 

dhig 

 

is this the longest edit of a post ever?

Edited September 26, 2015 by runs as required

[Judge Dread]

Another feather in the cap of the Bristol Aircraft company was they did all the aluminium castings for the Vincent HRD motor cycle company. 

[Kelly]

 

The moral of this story is don't ever argue with 10tonnes of steel that can survive 25+ years of service in Sheffield, you will come off second best.

 

Reminds me of the time an ex's VIva HC was parked outside mine and a cop car (brand new focus area car) came flying around the corner chasing someone, lost control and rear ended the Viva.

 

Car car totalled, passenger had to climb out of the drivers side.

 

Viva? a busted brake light and a slight dent in the bumper, though we couldn't be sure if that was already there or not as it'd been replaced previously with a salvaged one anyway!

[Fat Controller]

Reminds me of the time an ex's VIva HC was parked outside mine and a cop car (brand new focus area car) came flying around the corner chasing someone, lost control and rear ended the Viva.

 

Car car totalled, passenger had to climb out of the drivers side.

 

Viva? a busted brake light and a slight dent in the bumper, though we couldn't be sure if that was already there or not as it'd been replaced previously with a salvaged one anyway!

Vivas were tough old things- ours was tail-gated by a bus in Lyon (we stopped for a red light, he didn't). Sum total of damage; filler cap was now flush-fitting, whlist the shock had bent the rod that operated the throttle, jamming it on full-throttle. Lynne took us through the busy bit by Perrache station and along until we found a lay-by, using only clutch and brake.

[BG John]

This happened to my Dad's year old Viva six months after I passed my driving test! I was turning right at a right-angled bend in a main road, when a much bigger car coming the other way decided to go straight on. Dad always reckoned that with his years of experience he would have avoided it, but I doubt it! Some years later he dropped a ladder on the boot lid and made a nice big dent, when he was getting it off the roof rack!

 

[PatB]

Bristol cars were like no other. The Fighter, it's last new model before production ceased, had alloy wheels held to the hubs not by four or five, but SIX nuts....which also ensured that no aftermarket wheels could be fitted.

 

Apart from ones destined for 4WD Toyota HiLuxes .

[Horsetan]

Apart from ones destined for 4WD Toyota HiLuxes .

If you look at the entire run of the Bristol 603, especially the Beaufighter and Brigand models, you will spot quite a few bits that came from other cars, such as:

 

- headlights: rectangular, maybe Audi; projector lens, BMW

 

- tail lights: 1980s Sherpa / Bedford CF van, then Vauxhall/Opel Senator, then Audi A4 estate for the last few 4s cars.

Edited September 26, 2015 by Horsetan

[Kelly]

Vivas were tough old things- ours was tail-gated by a bus in Lyon (we stopped for a red light, he didn't). Sum total of damage; filler cap was now flush-fitting, whlist the shock had bent the rod that operated the throttle, jamming it on full-throttle. Lynne took us through the busy bit by Perrache station and along until we found a lay-by, using only clutch and brake.

 

Yep, tough and cheap to run as classic cars they were until more recently when people started to cotton on to them being good and the prices shooting up, mostly with everyone trying to make their own Viva GT or Firenza/Magnum without the costs of the genuine articles.

 

Had a HA that suffered brake failure down hill when doing 40mph towards a mini roundabout, with traffic on the roundabout and nowhere else to go I managed to get it around the turn and into a car park. My passenger was rather gripping the dashboard with fear! (no seat belts, seats folded forwards on a pivot with nothing locking them, drum brakes and crossplies). The simple act of engine braking was the key factor which i knew about, hence my not being worried.

 

This happened to my Dad's year old Viva six months after I passed my driving test! I was turning right at a right-angled bend in a main road, when a much bigger car coming the other way decided to go straight on. Dad always reckoned that with his years of experience he would have avoided it, but I doubt it! Some years later he dropped a ladder on the boot lid and made a nice big dent, when he was getting it off the roof rack!

 

 

Ouch.

 

The first  Viva HC I drove had similar (a van decided to scratch and itch down it's side)

 

Had some great fun driving old Vivas for a while, I think they made me a bit of a better driver (even if they were fairly limited power wise with the 1057/1256 engines in the ones I drove), very different to the modern boat I drive now! (Mk3 Mondeo estate).

Edited September 26, 2015 by Kelly

[petethemole]

For those of you actually running older vehicles, the fourth comment on this news item may be of interest {if you're not already aware).

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/13786132.Camper_van_blaze_on_Hampshire_motorway/

 

Edited to add the link!

 

Pete

Edited September 26, 2015 by petethemole

[Kelly]

For those of you actually running older vehicles, the fourth comment on this news item may be of interest {if you're not already aware).

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/13786132.Camper_van_blaze_on_Hampshire_motorway/

 

Edited to add the link!

 

Pete

 

Any sensible (and I know a fair number probably aren't sadly) person running a classic car would as a first job with any new classic (to them) replace all fuel/brake lines and leads for this very reason.

[PatB]

Yep, tough and cheap to run as classic cars they were until more recently when people started to cotton on to them being good and the prices shooting up, mostly with everyone trying to make their own Viva GT or Firenza/Magnum without the costs of the genuine articles.

 

 

 

How things change. I remember attending an auction in Bristol where a 2 litre (I think - certainly one of the big OHC lumps rather than the smaller Viva units) Firenza with nothing missing and nothing basically wrong with it, not even particularly rusty, went for just over a hundred quid. Would have been late 1991 or early 92 I s'pose. Doesn't seem like all that long ago. Round about the same time, an old boy from just down the road from my dad had one of the 2300 sportshatch/estate thingies that he probably paid about fifty notes for.

[Kelly]

How things change. I remember attending an auction in Bristol where a 2 litre (I think - certainly one of the big OHC lumps rather than the smaller Viva units) Firenza with nothing missing and nothing basically wrong with it, not even particularly rusty, went for just over a hundred quid. Would have been late 1991 or early 92 I s'pose. Doesn't seem like all that long ago. Round about the same time, an old boy from just down the road from my dad had one of the 2300 sportshatch/estate thingies that he probably paid about fifty notes for.

 

Now you'd be lucky to find a genuine one for under £2k I'd suspect in that sort of condition, as they're more sought after by people wanting Escorts and going 'How Much?!' at the prices of those (imho the Viva is better than the equiv. Escort in terms of handling etc).

 

The 1973 cut off for tax free status also meant a lot of Firenzas/Magnums got scrapped as well as standard Vivas as no-one wanted them for a fair while.

[BG John]

I never particularly liked my Dad's 1256 Viva. It was OK, and possibly better than the Morris 1300 that was my first car. But I think I much preferred my Allegro 1750 Sport, despite the tiny round steering wheel, the not very good cornering, and the need to double-declutch between certain gears. And my Mk2 Escort Sport was far better. Maybe if it had had a bigger engine I'd have felt a bit differently.

 

As I'm going off the idea of buying a newish car with all the stupid gadgets when I need to replace my van, maybe I'll have to have a look at Vivas and the like!

[Kelly]

I never particularly liked my Dad's 1256 Viva. It was OK, and possibly better than the Morris 1300 that was my first car. But I think I much preferred my Allegro 1750 Sport, despite the tiny round steering wheel, the not very good cornering, and the need to double-declutch between certain gears. And my Mk2 Escort Sport was far better. Maybe if it had had a bigger engine I'd have felt a bit differently.

 

As I'm going off the idea of buying a newish car with all the stupid gadgets when I need to replace my van, maybe I'll have to have a look at Vivas and the like!

1256s were a little underpowered for the Viva HC as it was a fairly heavy car compared to what came before, early 1970/1971 cars would have had the HBs 1158cc engine, which was even more underpowered. I always found the HC very good at cornering and as a everyday cheap runaround it suited me fine. Reason my ex had the Vivas was he got one on a whim after not being able to afford what he wanted at time (Morris Minor). The Vivas were only meant to be a cheap 'get his hands dirty for a short time' affair really for him... I think iirc he still has at least one (last I heard a '67 HB GT).

 

By comparison the 2ltr and 2.3ltre Viva HCs went like stink.

[BG John]

By comparison the 2ltr and 2.3ltre Viva HCs went like stink.

I did suggest getting something a bit higher up the range, but Dad wouldn't consider it. In comparison to the Austin A40 Somerset he traded in for it, it probably felt like a 2 litre to him anyway!

[Rugd1022]

My one and only experience with Vivas was throwing up in the back of my cousin's gold two door saloon in 1977 after eating some exotic fruit, she was not best pleased! It was her first car and her pride and joy, bought with earnings from her first proper job as a background artist and animator with Cosgrove & Hall (they did 'Jamie & The Magic Torch' and 'Chorlton & The Wheelies' amongst other stuff). The mess I left behind on her red vinyl seats did not add much of note to the ambience of Luton's finest...!

 

Having given my '73 XJ6 a good old polish today I'm going to drive to work in it later tonight, a distance of about two miles... I might just take the long way home in the morning.....

[keefr2]

For those of you actually running older vehicles, the fourth comment on this news item may be of interest {if you're not already aware).

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/13786132.Camper_van_blaze_on_Hampshire_motorway/

 

Edited to add the link!

 

Pete

What are we looking at, the camper van going up in flames? If so was it a classic?

 

Last year Porsche had a problem with brand new £100,000+ 911GT3's self combusting - doesn't have to be a classic to become a bonfire....!!

 

edit - apologies, I didn't register that you'd said the fourth comment.

Edited September 26, 2015 by keefr2

[Kelly]

I did suggest getting something a bit higher up the range, but Dad wouldn't consider it. In comparison to the Austin A40 Somerset he traded in for it, it probably felt like a 2 litre to him anyway!

 

Might have been due to the cost of fuel, the 2/2.3 engined Vivas were in the region of 10mpg or less if you weren't careful, whereas the 1256cc you can get a comfortable 30+mpg without much effort.

[edcayton]

A work colleague/friend of my Dad and his father liked the HA Viva so much that they bought two identical dark blue ones-CXD 821 and 822 B. I liked the idea of that, but it was out-classed by the directors of my son's previous company who bought matching Aston Martins. They didn't get the consecutive number plates though as they already had their own.

 

Ed

[edcayton]

Might have been due to the cost of fuel, the 2/2.3 engined Vivas were in the region of 10mpg or less if you weren't careful, whereas the 1256cc you can get a comfortable 30+mpg without much effort.

 

I had a work colleague with an HB Viva which he told me was a 1600. Being a know-all 18 year old apprentice I told him he couldn't have! He took me to the car park and opened the bonnet to reveal what I think was the smallest version of the Vauxhall slant-4 OHC engine.

 

Ed

[Kelly]

I had a work colleague with an HB Viva which he told me was a 1600. Being a know-all 18 year old apprentice I told him he couldn't have! He took me to the car park and opened the bonnet to reveal what I think was the smallest version of the Vauxhall slant-4 OHC engine.

 

Ed

 

Yes, earlier HBs came with the 1600cc slant-four engine. They replaced the 1600cc with an 1800cc later in the production run to give it more power as apparently people thought they'd be getting a much better kick than the 1158cc (some early ones had 1057cc engines iirc) engine of the standard model. In the HBs life only the GTs had the 2L engines, it wasn't until the HC that it got complicated with engines, with some having 1158cc,  some 1800, some 2L and some 2.3L (Firenza/Magnum models always had an 1800cc or above engine iirc) with most having 1256cc engines.

[Tony_S]

... with most having 1256cc engines.

I remember that engine! Our first car was a nine year old Chevette. It was quite horrible but we thought it was great having a car at last.

[great central]

I always thought that classic car owners tended to be a fairly responsible bunch, came across the exception to the rule earlier.

Some dipstick driving a MK1 Escort, made to look like a sport or maybe even a Mexico. Came roaring past me on a hill into a 30 limit, narrow village streets, ( I was doing about 30) continued in the same manner round a bend and disappeared but could be heard, revving like mad. Thing is, it wasn't that much faster than I reckon I could go if I stood on the loud pedal, so probably only a 1600 or so with a drainpipe exhaust. I've got a 2.2 turbo diesel. 

[30801]

Some dipstick driving a MK1 Escort, made to look like a sport or maybe even a Mexico.

That's quite cute. Like a 70's version of a Saxo that looks like it's ram-raided Halfords.