Vanders Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 True survivors! You're not wrong. Let's remember that the basic design pre-dates BR! That actually raises an interesting question: what's the oldest 08 or 09 still in revenue earning service, and just how old is it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted July 20, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 20, 2013 remember being on holiday in scarborough in june 1983, hung around the station one saturday and got some pics 11/06/83 (was maybe while we were waiting for our train home) 03 073 and 08 339 on pilot duties often involving holiday trains (like mine from glasgow/edinburgh - rakes of mk1 corridor stock) something like a class 40 would bring the train in, pilot takes the whole train way out towards falsgrave, loco follows it out. pilot propels the train back into the platform then scoots away, train loco drops back on was delighted some time back to find some footage on YaTube by aureol40012 of similar moves on 25/06/83 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
class"66" Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 There BR blue 08 shunter working on the Virgin trains depot at Darby spotted it yesterday while on the Hooton to Skeggness railtour.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 To which you could add: Llandeilo Junction 3 x 08 (Up and Down pilots and Old Castle trip) Pembrey 5x 03 (BP&GV) , 1 x 08 Carmarthen 1 x 08 I don't think there were any duties left west of there by then; five years earlier would have seen pilots (03s, I think) at Whitland and possibly Fishguard Harbour. Moving back to the early 60s the Llanelly (sic) shunter/pilot duties were something like this:- (all steam, except where shown) Llanelly C.01 - Spion Kop (Downside) C.02 - North Side C.03 - Good Shed (Upside) - Diesel. C.04 - Old Castle Llandilo Jct. C.05 - Branch Sidings - Diesel C.06 - Down Side West End - Diesel C.07 - Hump Yard - Diesel C.08 - Up Side - Diesel Llanelly Dock C.09 - Llanelly & Mynydd Mawr ?.?? - Sandy Sidings Pembrey No.1 No.2 Brian R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Moving back to the early 60s the Llanelly (sic) shunter/pilot duties were something like this:- (all steam, except where shown) Llanelly C.01 - Spion Kop (Downside) C.02 - North Side C.03 - Good Shed (Upside) - Diesel. C.04 - Old Castle Llandilo Jct. C.05 - Branch Sidings - Diesel C.06 - Down Side West End - Diesel C.07 - Hump Yard - Diesel C.08 - Up Side - Diesel Llanelly Dock C.09 - Llanelly & Mynydd Mawr ?.?? - Sandy Sidings Pembrey No.1 No.2 Brian R I've never even heard of 'Spion Kop' in Llanelli; it's not got confused with 'Tanner Bank', has it? The L&MMR, Docks and Pembrey turns were all 16xx jobs; as a small child, walks/ pushchair rides to town involved a stop on Sandy Road bridge to watch the yard shunter at work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I've never even heard of 'Spion Kop' in Llanelli; it's not got confused with 'Tanner Bank', has it? I've never heard the reference to 'Spion Kop' either - some Boer War connotation perhaps ? . If the pilot duty was described as 'Spion Kop - Downside' at Llanelly wouldn't that put it on the south side of the main line ? . From experience it's a term generally linked to steep banks at football grounds 'up north' e.g. Anfield, Hillsborough. . Methinks the origins of the 'tanner bank' at Stradey may be similar to the 'bob bank' at the former Ninian Park ? . Brian R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc smith Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I've never heard the reference to 'Spion Kop' either - some Boer War connotation perhaps ? . If the pilot duty was described as 'Spion Kop - Downside' at Llanelly wouldn't that put it on the south side of the main line ? . From experience it's a term generally linked to steep banks at football grounds 'up north' e.g. Anfield, Hillsborough. . Methinks the origins of the 'tanner bank' at Stradey may be similar to the 'bob bank' at the former Ninian Park ? . Brian R From my memory of reading "Ray of Hope" - the biog of footballer Ray Kennedy, I think "Spion Kop" was the name of a hill, where many soldiers fell, in battle? Perhaps WW1, or the Boer War? I think a lot of the soldiers were from Liverpool, Ireland, and Wales..... Hence, the good folk of Liverpool named the Kop End in their memory.... Perhaps the name was also used in similar fashion in Llanelly? Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gary H Posted July 23, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 23, 2013 Dear old A Pilot... spent many happy hours recling aboard 08 944 on that particular turn thirty odd years ago! Managed the rise up over the mainline at Kensal Green with ease with the PZ sleeper, and often as not we'd take two or three sets of newpaper vans up to Padd in one go to save going back and forth when times were busy. Driver and Secondman would share the driving, and once arrived at Padd one of us would tot off to Micky's Fish Bar to purloin appropriate nosh / supplies for the duration (I think I still owe Larry Harrison 50p for nicking a savaloy one night!).Crikey, Larry Harrison! He was driver of the HST involved in the Southall crash wasn't he Nige? Any Idea what happened to him in the intervening years?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 23, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 23, 2013 From my memory of reading "Ray of Hope" - the biog of footballer Ray Kennedy, I think "Spion Kop" was the name of a hill, where many soldiers fell, in battle? Perhaps WW1, or the Boer War? I think a lot of the soldiers were from Liverpool, Ireland, and Wales..... Hence, the good folk of Liverpool named the Kop End in their memory.... Perhaps the name was also used in similar fashion in Llanelly? Marc Spion Kop was the site of a battle in the Second Boer War. Crikey, Larry Harrison! He was driver of the HST involved in the Southall crash wasn't he Nige? Any Idea what happened to him in the intervening years?? Larry went away from Old Oak to 'somewhere on the Southern' for his driving job and was back to Old Oak on a first preference transfer c.1980/81 or thereabouts with about a dozen others who had gone to the Southern to get their jobs. The last time I saw him was one evening when I was coming back from a meeting at Crewe on a cross-country train which he took over at New St - as we pulled out of the station the fire alarm went off and he stopped the train and got out for a good look round - I was hanging my head out of the leading droplight and he was clearly a bit worried about it all so I joined him in the cab but there was a smell of something burning, or burnt, so we failed the loco. After changing locos I rode with him to Reading. Larry was a smashing bloke, bit of a case at times and occasionally a bit on the nervous side but i had a lot of time for him and was appalled by the way he was treated by the press etc after the the Southall collision - I understand it hit him pretty hard although a few inquiries through the WR grapevine indicated that various folk were doing their best for him so I didn't get involved. I think he might have finished under Ill Health but I'm not certain about that. And I'm not surprised that Nidge got away with the 50p - Larry could be a bit of a soft touch at times, but a great bloke for all that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I've never heard the reference to 'Spion Kop' either - some Boer War connotation perhaps ? . If the pilot duty was described as 'Spion Kop - Downside' at Llanelly wouldn't that put it on the south side of the main line ? . From experience it's a term generally linked to steep banks at football grounds 'up north' e.g. Anfield, Hillsborough. . Methinks the origins of the 'tanner bank' at Stradey may be similar to the 'bob bank' at the former Ninian Park ? . Brian R That's the general use of 'Kop'- I can't think of anywhere matching that description in Llanelli; the bit of the town on the Down side being pretty level. The 'Tanner Bank' was the bit of Stradey nearest town, being simply a heap of steelworks slag with a few token handrails on it in my day. The Old Castle turn was otherwise known as the Klondyke; Llanelly Steel, and their successors being reputed to be good payers. All gone now, alas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 My Shunter Duties Booklet for 1979 shows six 08s at Severn Tunnel Junction Yard. I would guess the duties to be:- Down Hump, Down Yard, Undy Hump, Bristol Yard, Transfer/trip Pilot, and a spare loco or perhaps 2nd pilot in the Bristol Yard. I made a visit in 1980, (another day out with my father who was on duty) and took a few photos, here are a couple of them:- 08932 with brake van next to the Down Hump Cabin, 31209 looks on 9/9/80. The Bristol yard this time, 08848 stands on the left as 08780 draws a raft of empty dogfish out of the yard, they were probably being readied for a trip to Tintern Quarry to be loaded with ballast, 9/9/80. Also noted in the yards at Severn Tunnel Junction that day was 08361, cheers . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 No disrespect stationmaster, but I'm under the impression his negligence cost 7 people their lives, so I'm not surprised the press had a field day... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 23, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 23, 2013 No disrespect stationmaster, but I'm under the impression his negligence cost 7 people their lives, so I'm not surprised the press had a field day... All I will say is that one needs to be very careful when using the word 'negligence' - especially when it comes to court matters. Although this reference is from Wikipedia it is correct in noting that criminal charge against Larry Harrison was dropped - in other words there was insufficient evidence to support a case which suggested that he had been criminally negligent, however Great Western Trains were heavily fined in relation to having a train with defective AWS continuing in service. Don't overlook the simple, but important fact that he was driving a train with inoperative AWS and whatever various inquiries might have said or not said the loss of it can have an impact on a Driver's perceptions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 According to wiki 03179 is still in use at Hornsey, is that the case? If so, its nice to see an 03 still soldiering on! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonas Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 According to wiki 03179 is still in use at Hornsey, is that the case? If so, its nice to see an 03 still soldiering on! Thats the former Isle of Wight machine isn't it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 All this talk about 08's, down in Cambridge we managed with 03's as station pilots. Cambridge actually had quite an allocation, but generally I think 2 were the true carriage pilots, 1 at each end of the station. Others were in use in the goods yard at the south of the station, or outstationed at places like Ely or Bury. Don't forget the 2 departmentals at Chesterton Junction pw depot, also the 08 or ex LMS versions in other yards. And I have a pic from a book of an 03 on passenger service on the RAF Henlow saturday train (Hitchin-Bedford branch) too. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 All I will say is that one needs to be very careful when using the word 'negligence' - especially when it comes to court matters. Although this reference is from Wikipedia it is correct in noting that criminal charge against Larry Harrison was dropped - in other words there was insufficient evidence to support a case which suggested that he had been criminally negligent, however Great Western Trains were heavily fined in relation to having a train with defective AWS continuing in service. Don't overlook the simple, but important fact that he was driving a train with inoperative AWS and whatever various inquiries might have said or not said the loss of it can have an impact on a Driver's perceptions. Larry was certainly a good bloke and was one of Old Oak's characters, of which we had dozens, if not hundreds. My very first turn with him was on the aforementioned Paddington A-Pilot (08 944 again, it's regular turn back then), I'd only been at OOC for a couple of weeks and he was an absolute gent, showing me the ropes of this particular job and letting me have a drive now and then. You'd always know whan Larry was about as his Mk3 Cortina aould be parked next to the fuelling shed at OOC, usually rammed with bits of old furniture which he used to collect. Back then he still looked the spitting image of George Harrison c.1969 with his long hair and beard making him instantly recognisable. There's a photo of him at New Street in 1975 in 'The Power Of The Westerns', winding up the headcode for the run back to Padd. Back to Southall for a mo - fellow Old Oak man Alan Bricker (now at Westbury) was the driver of the stone train and to this day still can't fathom why he was put out from the Down Relief across Larry's path. Before departing from Swansea with the HST, Larry offered to turn it on the triangle so as to have working AWS in the leading cab, but was told not to as this would have caused a delay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 24, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 24, 2013 Larry was certainly a good bloke and was one of Old Oak's characters, of which we had dozens, if not hundreds. My very first turn with him was on the aforementioned Paddington A-Pilot (08 944 again, it's regular turn back then), I'd only been at OOC for a couple of weeks and he was an absolute gent, showing me the ropes of this particular job and letting me have a drive now and then. You'd always know whan Larry was about as his Mk3 Cortina aould be parked next to the fuelling shed at OOC, usually rammed with bits of old furniture which he used to collect. Back then he still looked the spitting image of George Harrison c.1969 with his long hair and beard making him instantly recognisable. There's a photo of him at New Street in 1975 in 'The Power Of The Westerns', winding up the headcode for the run back to Padd. Back to Southall for a mo - fellow Old Oak man Alan Bricker (now at Westbury) was the driver of the stone train and to this day still can't fathom why he was put out from the Down Relief across Larry's path. Before departing from Swansea with the HST, Larry offered to turn it on the triangle so as to have working AWS in the leading cab, but was told not to as this would have caused a delay. Again somewhat OT but rounding out another lot of coincidences Alan Bricker was another who went across to the Southern for his driving job and I'm fairly sure that he returned to Old Oak in the same group as Larry H. Alan subsequently opted to go to the new freight depot at Acton when that was set up and men in two Old Oak links were given the option of going there is they wanted to - still in BR days but after sectorisation; they had a rather good 'opening party' for the new depot. The regulation of the stone train was distinctly odd as the old rule in the London Division was that Up Class 1 trains were not to be delayed, particularly east of Reading although things were changing by the time of this collision and no doubt different thinking was the thing by then. The layout at Southall had been replanned (by me as it happens) to get freights off the running lines as quickly as possible but the connections were still quite low speed due to site constraints, especially at the east end. Sorry for going OT but some might be interested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Thats the former Isle of Wight machine isn't it? According to Wiki it is ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted July 24, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 24, 2013 I think if I was an 08 I'd beg to be withdrawn and retired with dignity rather than being humiliated with a paintjob like this https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/1069322_222298424585776_396541930_n.jpg Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 I can remember 08's at Reading in the early 70's siting in the central road between platforms 8/9. In the same era I can also recall the 08 that were have a trip working from Slough yard to the long gone Stadex Starch works siding at Langley Bucks ( now Berks) There were also 08's at Plymouth that used perform many duties with both mail and sleeper trains at North Road for many a year. XF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 .................. There were also 08's at Plymouth that used perform many duties with both mail and sleeper trains at North Road for many a year. XF Here are a couple of them:- Lairas 08895 is on duty as Plymouth station Pilot, 21/4/82 08953 rumbles through the station with a trip working probably from Ernesettle MOD, 15/11/82 cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 4th. May 2007 finds 08951 bullying the stock of the Hitchin scrap train in Tidal, with the Celsa UK (Tremorfa Works) as a backdrop. . Brian R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted July 25, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 25, 2013 I think if I was an 08 I'd beg to be withdrawn and retired with dignity rather than being humiliated with a paintjob like this https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/1069322_222298424585776_396541930_n.jpg Andi "Better saucepans than tat!" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 I've never even heard of 'Spion Kop' in Llanelli; it's not got confused with 'Tanner Bank', has it? The 1961-62 WTT shows the following . "J.75 - Llanelly Yard and Copper Works Junction" . Llanelly Yard (Spion Kop) dep 07:20 Copper Works Jct. ...........arr. 07:25 Copper Works Jct.............dep 07:45 Llanelly Yard ...................arr. 07:50 . On the return the destination is shown only as 'Llanelly Yard' - minus the "Spion Kop" . The plot thickens ? . Brian R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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