Hornby GWR Hall

[Coach bogie]

Thanks mike.

 

It's only the tender logo transfers that I'm having trouble getting. I am getting bespoke etched nameplates and headboard made for me by fox so that will add to the detail.

 

Ryan

Peter's Sapres also sell the finished Hornby 4,000 gallon tender as a spare. You could switch tender tops and mask off the logo for a repaint.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Dunsignalling]

Some years ago, I stopped buying Bachmann locos mail order having bought a few that ran quite poorly until I gave them a 'light casual'. None were bad enough to send back but I lost some confidence in the brand at the time. Bachmann have more than regained it since and my recent purchases have been consistently excellent.

 

However, I have noticed that factory lubrication seems to be much reduced lately; I'd guess to avoid any of it getting onto the new transparent box inserts in transit. Applying a few drops of oil to a new loco (especially the Walschaerts valve gear, where fitted) works wonders, but it was seldom necessary in the past.

 

I still buy the vast majority of locos (of any make) from my local model shop, where I get to see them run first. This avoided my acquisition of a 'Sir Ironside' with a severe limp caused by a dodgy wheelset; the only such Hornby loco that I have so far come across. The next one off the shelf was fine and the dealer returned the defective example to Hornby.

 

I have only once had to send anything to Hornby's Service department (three of the first batch of Maunsell high-window BCKs with the corridor handrails printed at the wrong height). Having e-mailed Hornby to establish the required course of action; they sent me a postal label, and the matter was sorted out very quickly and efficiently - definitely a 5-star service.

 

The advent of commissioned models makes mail or internet ordering unavoidable, but one is dealing with a single supplier whose own pride/reputation is as much at stake as that of the manufacturer.

 

John

[Multiple identity account 2]

I'm just hoping that 5972 does have the Hogwarts railways logo as no-one I have contacted will do custom transfers for me due to licensing issues. However Fox have said they can do an etched headboard and etched nameplates which is a bonus. I don't have a printer and would be dubious creating my own as I have never done it before.

Helo Hilux5972,

 

Hope this image from Hornby's facebook page is of any help to you? Unless it was you who posted that.

[Hilux5972]

Lol yep that's me. Thanks tho :-)

[Ozexpatriate]

Well, that's one mystery less. The ghost of Lord Westwood it is then.

 

At least the catalogue image is consistent with what they plan to produce. A strange choice but I suppose it is suitable for those modelling the contemporary preservation scene.

[Hilux5972]

So now I need some advice. I have never removed any factory applied transfers before and need to know what everyone recommends to do so. How do I do so without damaging the surface of the model.

[Andy Y]

A couple of shots of the pre-production models.

 

 

[Multiple identity account 2]

Look nice to me except the moulded steam pipes. But none-the-less, Will add one to my wishlist. Thank you for sharing these images Andy

[The Stationmaster]

Thanks Andy.  Hornby do seem to be a bit inconsistent with 'cleverness' in their approach - the 'Star' appears to have a separate smokebox door handle but moulded handrails at the back of the cab sidesheets but the 'Hall' comes with a moulded smokebox door handle and separate wire handrails at the back of the cab sidesheets if it goes the way of these EPs.  Strange lack of consistency or are they responding to comments in a rather scatter gun manner I wonder?

[Hilux5972]

Something I don't understand. Why have they tooled up a new 4000 gallon tender with a moulded coal load when they could have saved money by reusing the tender from the castle? That doesn't make sense to me.

[Miss Prism]

Something I don't understand. Why have they tooled up a new 4000 gallon tender with a moulded coal load when they could have saved money by reusing the tender from the castle? That doesn't make sense to me.

 

I agree, but it is possible, and I stress I am speculating here, that some tooling belonging to Hornby might run only on bolsters owned by 'the Sanda Kan factory', and those bolsters are either inaccessible or their use is subject to current dispute or they've disappeared on a lorry going to somewhere else.

[Coach bogie]

Look nice to me except the moulded steam pipes. 

 

Really not an issue to me. It will not be noticeable when it is purring along at sixty mph on a seven coach Paddington - Weymouth train, through the Westbury vale. It removes the need to build the two Hall kits in stock and I can use the saved time to produce 1930's coaches that the rtr boys negelect.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Hilux5972]

Yeah I never thought if that miss prism

[Multiple identity account 2]

Really not an issue to me. It will not be noticeable when it is purring along at sixty mph on a seven coach Paddington - Weymouth train, through the Westbury vale. It removes the need to build the two Hall kits in stock and I can use the saved time to produce 1930's coaches that the rtr boys negelect.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Neither is it to me Just seemed like such a relatively gig component to have moulded on :P

 

Infact with a bit of weathering in those nooks and crannies and it should look good

[coachmann]

Really not an issue to me. It will not be noticeable when it is purring along at sixty mph on a seven coach Paddington - Weymouth train, through the Westbury vale. It removes the need to build the two Hall kits in stock and I can use the saved time to produce 1930's coaches that the rtr boys negelect.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Easier still, just buy the boxes and fit them with bogies. You won't even notice they're not coaches at sixty mph.......

[Bulwell Hall]

Well - now we have some decent photos I find the new Hall to be even more of a disappointment than it already was  On the plus side the basic profile looks to be very good and it is unmistakably Hall shaped.  But we can now see that not only are the smokebox door handles and the outside steam pipes moulded on but so too are the cabside handrails.  Even worse is that there is no detail whatsoever on the front of the cab - the cab front should be recessed and have pleanty of rivet detail - whilst a 49xx (which Rood Ashton Hall is) did not have a fire iron tunnel on the left hand side of the firebox.  The tender too has moulded handrails but look also at the toolboxes - they also seem to be moulded on. 

 

It really is a major disappointment after the excellent Grange and Castle.  Whilst it may be possible to correct some of these shortcomings - although it really shouldn't be nessecary - I don't see what can be done about the moulded outside steam pipes or the lack of detail on the cab front without undertaking major surgery.  Another strong point of Hornby locomotives until recently was the superb paint jobs with exquisite lining and lettering - it will not now be possible to retain this if major alterations and needed and repainting, lining and lettering will be required.  It looks like I shall be saving my money which is such a shame as my chosen Wilts, Somerset and Weymouth project could have used several more Halls. 

 

The reversion of standards by Hornby is a retrograde step which may well rebound on them - of course it may not in which case I will be wrong but I will still be disappointed.  It remains my opinion that Hornby reached a peak with the four LNER locos released recently and a photo will appear in a forthcoming MRJ which will show just what can be done with the superb L1 tank.  Sadly these newest GWR offerings from Hornby just do not make the grade which is such a shame after the promise of earlier LNER,SR and BR models.

[7013]

Does having a moulded outside steam pipe really make a huge difference? I would be more worried about the droopy cylinders. As we know these pre production samples often differ widely from the production models. I used to pre order but now I wait until I see at least two decent reviews or better still the loco in the flesh. The Heavy Tanks were a disappointment to many and I must confess I cancelled my order and am not disappointed I did so having seen a few of them in the flesh. I know in time I will probably pick one up cheap and detail it to my liking but for now it does not interest me to the extent I thought it would. 

I suspect like many others if a loco does not instantly have an appeal then there is hesitancy about buying it. For instance looking at the LMS twins and reviews I know that that it had that awful cliche the 'wow factor'. Unfortunately the Heavy tanks and now this Hall appear to be sewing the seeds of doubt in peoples mind. 

It has been said many times by lots of people that we all want Hornby to be right back at the forefront of modelling, but they in turn must give the modeller what they want in terms of quality or like me they will be put off until said model becomes a cheaper proposition reflecting what I think its worth not what Hornby price it at, otherwise there are plenty of goodies from other manufacturers e.g. Bachmann Halls to spend my money on, they may not be quite the same but if they are of better quality and generally cheaper then there is no contest.

[Horsetan]

Judging by those photos just like the Heavy Tanks they have the "Design Clever" buckled foot plates with matching tender frames.

At least the footplate isn't made of mazak.

[Hilux5972]

To be honest, in my opinion, from normal viewing distance, you are not going to notice a moulded steam pipe against a black running plate and a black smokebox. I have given Hornby a rough time recently, however I will be be purchasing Olton Hall and possibly others too.

[Multiple identity account 2]

To be honest, in my opinion, from normal viewing distance, you are not going to notice a moulded steam pipe against a black running plate and a black smokebox.

I fully agree with you Ryan. It's just that no one wants to come to terms with moulded details anymore. We have been spoilt with the best detailed models too much much now. It's everyone's expectations to see "super-detailed" models only. And secondly a lot of people are turning against Hornby and just take small matters and make issues out of it. Firstly when everyone (no offense to anyone) praise Bachmann's Hall then why bother looking into the Hornby one? At the most an individual can share his/her opinion. But it seems like everyone is acting like as if they are forced to buy one and then go on and on and on bashing Hornby - again I say if you'll love the Bachmann one stick with that. Or look for a kit.

[Hilux5972]

I fully agree with you Ryan. It's just that no one wants to come to terms with moulded details anymore. We have been spoilt with the best detailed models too much much now. It's everyone's expectations to see "super-detailed" models only. And secondly a lot of people are turning against Hornby and just take small matters and make issues out of it. Firstly when everyone (no offense to anyone) praise Bachmann's Hall then why bother looking into the Hornby one? At the most an individual can share his/her opinion. But it seems like everyone is acting like as if they are forced to buy one and then go on and on and on bashing Hornby - again I say if you'll love the Bachmann one stick with that. Or look for a kit.

Exactly. I run my trains. I don't spend my time looking at my models from 2 inches away. If people don't like them, then they don't have to buy them.

[The Stationmaster]

Exactly. I run my trains. I don't spend my time looking at my models from 2 inches away. If people don't like them, then they don't have to buy them.

Quite true - the only problem for Hornby being that it won't do them much good in certain parts of the market.  And of course we should, I suppose, always being looking more for progress than going backwards but if a company wants to affect its reputation by going backwards that is really its concern.  If Hornby has done a good job with their new 'Hall' I would probably have bought one - I might even have bought two but judging by the EPs for this loco they can forget potential sales worth the best part of £250 from me - that isn't my loss, it's theirs.  (and I only hope they haven't ruined the 'Grange' as I have two on order).

 

The simple fact is that where there is no competition (e.g. the GW 8 coupled tanks) they can getaway with a few shortcomings - but that doesn't work when they're in direct competition with another manufacturer.

[Adam]

I fear that the two comments before Mike (Stationmaster) kind of miss the point to some extent; I suspect that these models will be marketed at comparable prices to the Grange. They are palpably not of a comparable standard.

 

Generally, I reckon that Hornby produce a better paint finish, especially with regard to lining than Bachmann and - since I regard moulded cab handrails as unacceptable (I can live with unsprung buffers and moulded lubricator pipe runs very happily however) removing and replacing them would ruin that finish. The moulded steam pipes are perhaps a more difficult call but I remember noticing the seperation on the real thing as a kid - yes, I was a strange child, but it was probably because at that age I was used to looking up at things - and see them a characteristic of the real thing in the case of most GW 4-6-0s. 

 

The old Hornby 'Albert Hall' wasn't such a long way behind this model if the handrails are taken into account. Fundamentally it's roughly the right shape and ran alright and with a modern paint job and boiler handrails so what? If that's what you want, what's to worry about? Funnily enough, I like to run my trains as well and if that's all I wanted to do then I wouldn't see too much between them. With the Bachmann Hall available, and the significant rise in RTR standards over the last 10 years or so I wouldn't chose this as an alternative, assuming that I was in the market for a Hall. As I chose to model in EM my purchases of any RTR model is discretionary; I will go to the trouble of regauging the things so would rather be saved the effort of improving the base model. If there's too much of that it would be more fun - for me - to build and run a loco from a kit. Hornby are capable of catering to both these markets and that's what makes this model a dissappointment.

 

It's a personal thing, not bashing one manufacturer or another. This product doesn't do what I want, I will look somewhere else. It might be that I'd buy a Hornby Grange or Castle instead, maybe a Bachmann Modified Hall. Whichever I might chose (if any), it's no judgement of the manufactuer in general and I suspect that I'm not alone.

 

Adam

[coachmann]

Maybe Hornby will get itself of of its self-made hole, but it puzzles me why a company craps on itself in the first place. Or perhaps it considered itself such a market leader that everyone would fall in line. For me and perhaps many other railway modellers, it doesnt really matter what Hornby does. My enthusiasm for building metal loco kits evaporated while I was still in my 30's so if I really wanted a RTR loco, I wouldn't hesistate to purchase and would have fun replacing all the moulded on detail as well as giving the loco a complete repaint. But where competition exists, Hornby would lose out obviously.

[Hilux5972]

I fear that the two comments before Mike (Stationmaster) kind of miss the point to some extent; I suspect that these models will be marketed at comparable prices to the Grange. They are palpably not of a comparable standard.

Actually they aren't. The railroad hall is around £65, the enhanced hall (with etched nameplates costing around £10 desperately) is around £90 and the grange is around £105. But again it's personal opinion. I personally don't like bachmanns paint finish or running mechanism in their Hall, but I think their Mk1 coaches are superb, minus those dang roof ribs of course. Each to their own.