Racing Pigeons

[br2975]

Can anyone tell me when BR ceased carrying racing pigeons please ?

 

For those unaware, pigeon fanciers, and their clubs would enter their birds into races organised by federations - with birds in their baskets conveyed by train to the station/area where the race would start.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Brian R.

[Fat Controller]

Can anyone tell me when BR ceased carrying racing pigeons please ?

 

For those unaware, pigeon fanciers, and their clubs would enter their birds into races organised by federations - with birds in their baskets conveyed by train to the station/area where the race would start.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Brian R.

I'd reckon probably mid-1970s (I remember seeing baskets at Llanelli station about then), and definitely by 1980 when the Collect and Deliver part of Rail Express Parcels went, and there was a big clear-out of the van fleet.

[The Stationmaster]

I'd reckon probably mid-1970s (I remember seeing baskets at Llanelli station about then), and definitely by 1980 when the Collect and Deliver part of Rail Express Parcels went, and there was a big clear-out of the van fleet.

I definitely saw none, nor did we receive any at (or send any from) any of the stations I was involved with from 1974 onwards.

[flyingsignalman]

I seem to remember that Hooton still dealt with racing pigeons in 1976 and it wasn't long after when BR said they were stopping carrying them.

[br2975]

Thanks chaps.

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This has arisen out of an entry in the 1969 Cardiff Division Sectional Appendix which refers to the attaching of a  Siphon G to a DMU between Bridgend and Cymmer Afan.

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This was only permitted when the train comprised a 3x car set (DM/Trailer/DM) and a single car e.g. Cl.116 and Cl.121 - with all engines working.

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Hence my interest.

.

Brian R

[Hairy Bear Digital]

Worked in the Red Star Parcel office Leicester  briefly in 1982, and they were still being sent then. Usually it was only individual ones being returned on there own.But there was the occasional basket. We also had baby chicks and boxes of Salmon on the trains until about 1984.

[Gwiwer]

Those would have been consigned as perishables / livestock traffic by passenger train as late as 1984.

 

When were the last pigeon vans withdrawn, anyone?  

 

BR used to have a number of these specially-designed wagons which were formed into "pigeon specials" conveying many hundreds of birds to the release point.  They had multiple "compartments" each with a top-hinged flap which IIRC could all be released simultaneously to ensure a fair start scrutinised by the race organisers.

[Fat Controller]

Worked in the Red Star Parcel office Leicester  briefly in 1982, and they were still being sent then. Usually it was only individual ones being returned on there own.But there was the occasional basket. We also had baby chicks and boxes of Salmon on the trains until about 1984.

Livestock was still carried by rail, albeit in limited quantities, into the mid/late 1990s; sometime after March 1995, our friends in Northallerton despatched their cat 'Jake' to us by Red Star. He arrived at Ashford later the same day, a little groggy from the sedatives, but otherwise OK.

Sending racing pigeons for races depended on there being sufficient staff or others at the receiving station to open all the boxes (which resembled wicker picnic hampers) almost simultaneously. I was unaware of any vehicle being designed solely for pigeon traffic; the ones I remember seeing were ordinary parcels vans with hinged shelves on the inside walls, including Siphon Gs and Gresley full-brakes.

[Ben Alder]

Some Gresley full brakes were designated as pigeon vans- remember  them at Thurso, in the late sixties, I think, with the fold down ledges. but I presume they were used for general traffic when not required for the pigeons.

[jwealleans]

They had multiple "compartments" each with a top-hinged flap which IIRC could all be released simultaneously to ensure a fair start scrutinised by the race organisers.

 

Really?  I've not heard of these before, only individual baskets which were opened by the railway staff at wherever they were to be released.  Any more details?

[talisman56]

I'm a bit vague about the exact details, here, but bear with me... I was on Bristol Temple Meads platform 10/12(? - the island that got you nearest to see what was in Bath Road depot) in spring 1975 when we were all ushered back in under the canopy to get us away from about 2 bogie vans with many-compartmented sides on the front of a NE/SW express. The two railway employees concerned then stood at one end of the vans and pulled a lever, which opened all the compartments at the same time, thus releasing many pigeons into the skies of Bristol (as if we didn't have enough of them). Apparently this was a regular occurrence but I did not see this happen ever again after this occasion.

[Gwiwer]

There were certainly some Gresley-designed pigeon vans.  A little research suggests they were available for normal parcels use when not so required.  

[jwealleans]

The Gresley pigeon vehicles (and, oh, what arguments we've had about those) had fold down internal shelves to take baskets of pigeons.  They could also be used for trays of other produce or folded back to allow use as a normal parcels/luggage vehicle.  I am intrigued by these vehicles with many external opening doors, though - I've never heard of them.

[robertcwp]

Here are a couple of interior views of the preserved van on the North Norfolk Railway, showing the fold-down tables:

 

P1060815am by robertcwp, on Flickr

 

 

P1060813am by robertcwp, on Flickr

 

Pigeon vans were given official recognition as such in the carriage codes by LNER and BR.

[jwealleans]

Thank you, Robert - I know I've seen other pictures of the shelves but (of course) I couldn't locate any when I was making my post.

[Fat Controller]

Here are a couple of interior views of the preserved van on the North Norfolk Railway, showing the fold-down tables:

 

P1060815am by robertcwp, on Flickr

 

 

P1060813am by robertcwp, on Flickr

 

Pigeon vans were given official recognition as such in the carriage codes by LNER and BR.

Were any of the Gresley vans used in WW2 Ambulance Trains, as the Siphon Gs were? I believe one of the reasons the Siphons were used was that their folding shelves could be used to accommodate a second tier of stretchered patients.

[Simon Lee]

I am intrigued by these vehicles with many external opening doors, though - I've never heard of them.

 

Cant see any passenger rated vans in any of the RCTS books or the Bradford Barton Parcels stock book that would fit this description, and I'm not aware of any bogie freight vans ? 

 

Regards

Simon

[Gwiwer]

If I re-locate the image I haven mind I'll post the reference.  Two of us independently seem fairly sure we have seen (or seen images of) "pigeon vans" with side-opening doors / flaps.  That doesn't mean we're right of course but it might mean there's something in it.

 

All livestock vehicles were considered "passenger" rather than freight so far as I am aware including horse boxes and cattle wagons.

[Fat Controller]

If I re-locate the image I haven mind I'll post the reference.  Two of us independently seem fairly sure we have seen (or seen images of) "pigeon vans" with side-opening doors / flaps.  That doesn't mean we're right of course but it might mean there's something in it.

 

All livestock vehicles were considered "passenger" rather than freight so far as I am aware including horse boxes and cattle wagons.

'Cattle Wagons' were Goods stock (and often unfitted into the early 1950s), though fitted versions carried 'XP' markings. 'Special Cattle Wagons' (usually used for show cattle and pedigree bulls) were 'Passenger- Rated stock. The SCVs were displaced by the introduction of the Thermos Flask, conveyed in the Brake van of normal passenger trains.

Is it possible that what you saw was the four sets of side doors being opened more-or-less simultaneously? This would have been a relatively rare sight on a van, except when loading newspapers, as different areas of individual vans were designated for different destinations.

[robertcwp]

'Cattle Wagons' were Goods stock (and often unfitted into the early 1950s), though fitted versions carried 'XP' markings. 'Special Cattle Wagons' (usually used for show cattle and pedigree bulls) were 'Passenger- Rated stock. The SCVs were displaced by the introduction of the Thermos Flask, conveyed in the Brake van of normal passenger trains.

Is it possible that what you saw was the four sets of side doors being opened more-or-less simultaneously? This would have been a relatively rare sight on a van, except when loading newspapers, as different areas of individual vans were designated for different destinations.

Here is an SCV:

 

S3698S_SCV by robertcwp, on Flickr

[jwealleans]

The SCVs were displaced by the introduction of the Thermos Flask

'Special Cocoa Van'?

[JOHNMCDRAGON]

I've seen regularly over the years in railway mags photos of pigeon specials and  their release, the guard or whoever pulled a lever and the side of the van  (actually  looking similar to a passenger full brake)opened releasing all the pigeons simoultaneously. Apparently it was quite a common sight years ago. Though of course I can't recall where I saw recent photo.

[Coombe Barton]

See http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1976/jul/28/rail-transport-of-pigeons

 

And http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/8027-pigeon-traffic/

[Arthur]

An image from the NRM archives,

 

http://www.nrm.org.uk/ourcollection/photo?group=British%2520Transport%2520Commission&objid=1996-7038_BTF_185_41

 

And from lorries with simultaneous release from several 'flaps'.

 

 

[28XX]

Yes, concur with the above.  I saw a release on Banbury station sometime after I started with BR in 1976