Statement from Kernow MRC on Ltd.Edn. models via Dapol

[cromptonnut]

Dapol's bubble has burst..............?

 

How many Chinese speak Cornish/Kernowek I wonder?

 

Leun a sylli yw ow skath bargesi.

[Coombe Barton]

Let's not forget that without Kernow some interesting and well received models would never have seen the light of day. If 200 is too few for their business model then so be it, they will have to think where their priorities lie. And they've said it's within the 4mm market, sourced direct. And they have the right people on board.

[rembrow]

Is it throwing toys out or Dapol taking an opportunity to concentrate on their own products after taking on too much? There's little doubt their production was slipping badly and after the success of the Beattie that must have been a very difficult decision by Kernow. Yet they still tried to keep the faith on other projects with Dapol.

I hope this isn't going to harm Dapol badly and I wish Kernow every success plus it must help DJM with cash flow and maintaining Chinese contacts for their own range.

A more sophisticated version of the small production of 3D prints by contractsnufacturers?

I'm not sure this isn't 'throwing out the toys' by Dapol. All of the commissions that they have cancelled with Kernow are variations of models planned or recently produced by Dapol in their own ranges, so the production of these would be organised alongside their standard catalogue items with little effect on their own production, and a guaranteed source of revenue. I think the acid test of my view will be if we hear from Hattons that Dapol have similarly cancelled their commissioned versions of the Class 73 and Class 121/122 models. I think the clues are also their in Kernows statement, when they say that the commissions for the 2 further silver bullets and the additional Western are only continuing as they are in production

[Darth Vader]

 

We now have a retailer commissioning RTR models directly from a factory in China under their own project supervision, and not working through an established "RTR manufacturer brand".  

Not new a new idea really, this sort of thing has been going on in Australia for well over 15 years, shops and private individuals have been commissioning ready to run models direct from Chinese manufacturers.

[Oldddudders]

I believe that Ixion had 1500 Hudswell Clarke locos made and have sold about 1000 so far and they now advertise it as the best selling O Gauge loco ever. This financed the Fowler Diesel GWR No1 released this week where they have had 1000 made - I have no idea how many of those are pre ordered but perhaps not more than the 200 that Kernow felt was too small a number.

I would suggest that the GWR No1 would, if repainted blue or red or yellow, fit very well indeed into any generic industrial setting, so it has quite a wide appeal. A Beattie Well Tank looks like nothing else, so unless your layout is LSWR suburban a century ago, or Wenfordbridge to Wadebridge, the appeal isn't quite there, however good the model. And, given the present circs surrounding their commissionings, Kernow may have felt this was becoming a model too far.

[Downer]

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/page/60/Bulleid_Diesel

 

Google is our friend.

 

RWJ

Don't you believe it. 

[DJM Dave]

I'm not sure this isn't 'throwing out the toys' by Dapol. All of the commissions that they have cancelled with Kernow are variations of models planned or recently produced by Dapol in their own ranges, so the production of these would be organised alongside their standard catalogue items with little effect on their own production, and a guaranteed source of revenue. I think the acid test of my view will be if we hear from Hattons that Dapol have similarly cancelled their commissioned versions of the Class 73 and Class 121/122 models. I think the clues are also their in Kernows statement, when they say that the commissions for the 2 further silver bullets and the additional Western are only continuing as they are in production

Actually there are on the ship close to the uk.

 

If it helps at all, and might clarify things further, there are currently, and this has been the way for the last 18months, no (I repeat no delays) in production from the main factory. I know this from experience and the fact that I am using the same factory.

HTH

Dave

[HSB]

I can't help thinking that the Beatie was a slightly strange choice for their first foray into 0 gauge. Surely it would have been better to produce something with wider appeal?

In 00 there is already a wide range of locos available from the major manufacturers so producing models of the more obscure prototypes is obviously commercially viable but in 0 the choice of RTR locos is still very limited and the potential market much smaller so something more mainstream would surely have attracted more interest.  

[frobisher]

I can't help thinking that the Beatie was a slightly strange choice for their first foray into 0 gauge. Surely it would have been better to produce something with wider appeal?

I think the existing research/CAD work that Kernow had from the 00 version probably had a strong influence on it.

[wombatofludham]

I can't help but wonder if this announcement has been prompted by changes in personnel at Dapol giving Kernow concerns about Dapol's future direction? I wonder if we might be about to hear a scaling back on the recently announced Dapol OO and O gauge programme? I suppose it could be coincidence but the tone of the announcement seems to hint at some serious breakdown in the mutual relationship.

[Andy Hayter]

200 O gauge models pre ordered, I wonder how many they thought they were going to sell ?

A search of Chinese toy producers of model railway equipment shows that many producers are looking for 500  units as a minimum production run.

[BR(S)]

I think the acid test of my view will be if we hear from Hattons that Dapol have similarly cancelled their commissioned versions of the Class 73 and Class 121/122 models.

 

I e-mailed Hatton's earlier this evening about their Dapol ltd editions following this news (I have a 121 and 122 on order) and will put their answer here when received.

[Mel_H]

Seems rather spiteful of Dapol refusing to do the special editions. Of course, they could do them 'in-house' and sell through their own channels? As a very small company, they might choose to do that.

 

After all, the market will always have its say and, if the market is big enough.

 

The big challenge for Dapol will also be delivering quality. I wonder how many more Class 22s they would have sold if they had painted them BR blue, rather than the strange shad in which they were delivered. The same goes for Footplate's snowploughs, where they have trouble with 'light' yellow stripes, on an otherwise good model.

 

Certainly, interesting times ahead...

[mikeharvey22]

Seems rather spiteful of Dapol refusing to do the special editions. Of course, they could do them 'in-house' and sell through their own channels? As a very small company, they might choose to do that.

 

This might answer that point.

 

http://Dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=information%2Fnews&news_id=62#.Un1EkK5FDct

 

 

 

Mike

[mike tugsandsheds]

Well I was going to get the ATW Bubble Car

[Xerces Fobe2]

Remember Kernow switched the Thumper production from Dapol to Bachmann in the past as it made good business sense given Bachmann's then forthcoming model of a 2EPB.

 

I think many us can join the dots up and can have an educated guess as to why Kernow has taken this action this time, however it would be totally inappropriate/ potentially libelous to publish our opinions anywhere in a public forum or place.

 

Interesting times ahead for all paties concerned.

 

Nigel

[BR(S)]

 

Seems rather spiteful of Dapol refusing to do the special editions. Of course, they could do them 'in-house' and sell through their own channels? As a very small company, they might choose to do that.

 

This might answer that point.

 

http://Dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=information%2Fnews&news_id=62#.Un1EkK5FDct

 

 

 

Mike

 

 

Unless I've misread something, the Kernow message suggests Dapol cancelled the other £275,000 of models, but the Dapol link above suggests Kernow cancelled them

 

Either way, it looks from the Dapol page that the ltd ed models might appear anyway, so good news for the modeller.

[DJM Dave]

Hi, as far as I'm aware, Kernow cancelled their 02, gate stock, D600 etc

I believe it was Kernow's intention to receive their special commissions (exclusive liveries and running numbers) of NEW Dapol loco's, such as the 73 , 121/122 in particular.

I understand it was this latter £275k of models that were cancelled by Dapol.

HTH

Dave

[Andy Y]

Kernow cancelled the O2, Gatestock, Warship, Bulleid diesel etc

 

Unless I've misread something, the Kernow message suggests Dapol cancelled the other £275,000 of models, but the Dapol link above suggests Kernow cancelled them

 

Either way, it looks from the Dapol page that the ltd ed models might appear anyway, so good news for the modeller.

Outside the scope of the commissioned exclusive items such as the O2, Gatestock and subsequent exclusives. the following appears to be the case:

 

Even after the above changes we had around £275k of special projects remaining with Dapol and it was our intention to continue with these, but Dapol have cancelled all of these with the exception of the OO Gauge models of D1003V Western Ruler and B850ZA and B850ZB Weathered Silver Bullets which are already in production. 

Dapol feel that to continue to offer KMRC first choice of special editions from their range would be unfair to our other dealers, and ultimately dis-advantageous to our customers. We have therefore taken the decision to withdraw this privilege from KMRC;

The cancellation of the other items was Dapol's rather than Kernow.

[the-gog]

Either way, it looks from the Dapol page that the ltd ed models might appear anyway, so good news for the modeller.

I'd guess that the artwork has already been prepped so they've passed the point of no return. It would be a waste of cash not to proceed.

 

RWJ

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Don't know the ins or outs of all this, but no response as yet from Dapol giving their side of things, unlike the old days when Dave would give an almost running commentary. Perhaps indicative of the new Dapol's engagement (or lack thereof) with enthusiast groups such as ours.

[The Fatadder]

Dapols response has been linked to above

 

In essence it says that they will no longer offer KMC first dibs on new releases for ltds because they have chosen to be a manufacturer

Instead all future (73, 122 etc) releases that were going to KMC will now go on general sale via all stockists at no price premium

[Ravenser]

Not new a new idea really, this sort of thing has been going on in Australia for well over 15 years, shops and private individuals have been commissioning ready to run models direct from Chinese manufacturers.

 

I've had the way people like Auscision and Eureka operate very much in the back of my mind for a while . Oz is different because of the smaller scale of the market and it's fragmentation between 7 systems and 3 gauges. As a result you didn't really start with a strong "traditional RTR" base from major manufactures and the emergence of the "commissioned from China" outfits  was an natural and inevitable development

 

Where I think Britain is going to differ from Australia is that the big "box-shifters" are emerging as major commissioners. DJM is very much the Australian/US business model but the combination of major model retailer and "manufacturer" of ready-made rolling stock and other items is to my eyes very much like the way people like Hamblings, Bassett-Lowke, Bonds and W&H operated from the late 20s to the late 50s

 

Dapol Statement

Due to KMRC ‘s implied intention to establish themselves as a manufacturer, Dapol feel that to continue to offer KMRC first choice of special editions from their range would be unfair to our other dealers, and ultimately dis-advantageous to our customers.

 

 

 

 

But of course Kernow aren't making anything themselves. This really does bring into question what we mean by "manufacturer". Dapol seem here almost to be taking the line that the retail trade shouldn't go directly to the factories but should go through a "bona fide RTR manufacturer" - but if the actual manufacturing and tooling is contracted out to China, and the commissioner is doing much of the development , then the role of the "RTR manufacturer" becomes tenuous and vulnerable. How exactly do Kernow differ from Hornby or Lima's or Vi-Trains' importers- apart from the fact that Hornby don't have a developed discount retail operation to sell the product?

 

(As far as I'm aware Dapol aren't refusing to supply limited editions to Hattons despite Hattons commissioning a Class 14, a Co-Bo and a Beyer Garrett from Heljan)    

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Yes, sorry, missed that. Not quite the chatty and more informal style of the good old days with Dave though.

[Butler Henderson]

Dapols statement reads very oddly, implying that Kernow were offered the special editions rather than Kernow commissioning them. Harks to be back in the dark days of the Dapol when on the model rail newsgroup veiled threats were made against anyone who was critical of them "we know who you are".