A Guide to using the Silhouette Cameo Cutter

[JCL]

Hi Mick, those are interesting problems! Did you know that there was also an update to Inkscape as well to  0.48.5 r10040 ? There are also development end of day versions but these are less stable, and frankly I've never worked out how to compile them. Open source is great, but documentation is generally pretty awful.

 

I think that a number of these problems are Inkscape and not Studio. This is shown by the fact that saving a DXF and then reloading it in Inkscape gives you the errors. Have you tried using an online converter like this one http://www.coolutils.com/Online/CAD-Converter/ to convert from SVG to DXF? How does that come out?

[MikeOxon]

EDIT - Now resolved in Studio v.3.3.451 (Jan 2015)

 

I've been dissecting some DXF files to try and understand the problems with rounded corners that I've described earlier in this thread.

Autodesk provide a reference manual about the format at  http://images.autodesk.com/adsk/files/acad_dxf0.pdf   (It's not easy reading!). There are many different versions of DXF files but the ones produced by my Autosketch v5 are in a plain text ASCII format, which can be read with any text editor, such as Notepad.

The text in a drawing file is divided into several sections, including a HEADER (containing various settings, such as units of measurement), TABLES, GROUPS and ENTITIES.   I've been looking at the ENTITIES section, since this is where the components of the drawing are listed.

For test purposes, I drew a simple rectangle in various different ways, using Autosketch, and then compared the lists of ENTITIES in the DXF files. The files I produced were:

• Rectangle.DXF:  use the 'rectangle' tool, to draw 30mm x 50mm rectangle
• Multiline.DXF:  make the same drawing using the 'line' tool to draw the four sides
• Rounded4.DXF:  use the 'edit round' procedure, to provide 5mm radius corners between the four sides
• Joined.DXF: use the 'edit join' tool, to join the elements of the rounded rectangle into a single object
• Exploded.DXF; use the 'explode' tool to break the joined object into its component parts

Inkscape will not display the Rectangle.DXF and Joined.DXF files.  Studio3 displays them all but Joined.DXF has diagonal-cut corners.  Studio2 displays them all correctly.  DraftSight displays them all correctly.  Shapes cut with the two versions of Studio from Joined.DXF (which was my standard method for producing rows of windows) are shown below:

 

Looking at the text files,  Rectangle.DXF and Joined.DXF contain POLYLINE elements, whereas Multiline.DXF only contains LINE elements. Rounded4.DXF is similar to Multiline.DXF but adds several ARC elements, and Explode.DXF has a very large number of small LINE components.  A comparison of the ENTITIES sections of these files is attached below, for anyone who is interested.

CompareEntitiesDXF.doc

It looks as though some programs (INKSCAPE and STUDIO3) cannot interpret the POLYLINE statements correctly, whereas STUDIO2 and DraftSight can.  The work-around for the moment is for me to use simple lines and to avoid joining entities in files that I wish to transfer to Studio3.

 

Mike

Edited January 31, 2015 by MikeOxon

[JCL]

It might feel like you're sending information into a black hole, but it might be worth sending your findings to Silhouette America asking it to be forwarded to their software team (or subcontractors). You never know, someone might read it. I'll also send it to a sales person that emailed me once so I know it gets to a human. if that's ok.

 

cheers

 

Jason

[MikeOxon]

I'll also send it to a sales person that emailed me once so I know it gets to a human. if that's ok.

Please do forward to wherever it might be useful. I've sent info. to S-A but only seem to get stereotyped replies.  Their latest suggestion is to try a larger packet size but I cannot see how this correlates with my findings!  I suspect that reading the DXF may be handled by a dll file in the Studio package and I shall investigate if it's possible to use the v2 version with v3. EDIT: DXF is handled by main studio.exe file, so this would need to be updated.

 

It's no longer much of a problem for new drawings, if I bear in mind the limitations, when drawing in Autosketch.

Edited August 22, 2014 by MikeOxon

[Anotheran]

Looking at the text files,  Rectangle.DXF and Joined.DXF contain POLYLINE elements, whereas Multiline.DXF only contains LINE elements. Rounded4.DXF is similar to Multiline.DXF but adds several ARC elements, and Explode.DXF has a very large number of small LINE components.

The manual for Studio 3 states on page 6:

"Silhouette Studio® supports the following DXF features only: Arc, Circle, Ellipse, Line, DWPolyline, Spline, and Text"

 

Note that it says DWPolyline, while your list of entities clearly shows that Polyline is used. In the DXF reference guide I can't find any mention of DWPOLYLINE (though there is an LWPOLYLINE). However, I don't expect that the Studio manual has a misprint. I expect rather that DWPOLYLINE is some kind of sub-class of the POLYLINE entity.

 

Just to be safe, I'd stick to drawing tools that create entities of the types that are listed in the Studio manual, though that's going to be a bit of a pain working out what those "safe" tools are. Of course, that doesn't explain why it worked in 2 and has stopped working in 3... so I could be completely wrong (again!)

[MikeOxon]

Thanks for spotting that, Anotheran - it may be the root of the problem (although the v2 manual had exactly the same list)   It would appear that I have to avoid using any 'compound' tools such as rectangles or polylines and, if I do hit a problem, I can always 'explode' a file, even though it produces a huge output.  As JCL points out, I only need to do this once.  In addition, I have Studio2 on my laptop and Studio3 on my desktop, so I can also use v2 as a file converter, if necessary.

 

I shall also follow JCL's suggestion to try for a response from Silhouette's software team.

 

Mike.

Edited August 22, 2014 by MikeOxon

[raymw]

Hi,

 

If it is any consolation, I've been using cad software for some years (none of what you are using), but saving in .dxf format to produce cnc files (g-code). It seems that most non-autodesk software screws up the conversion at various times (Autodesk seems to alter the format two or three times a year, which does not help). I've found that it is necessary to massage the original drawing to ensure lines are in the correct direction, end points joined, etc. I have the facility to convert curves to vectors within my drawing package, which produces short straight lines (instead of centre point and arcs) and I think if you do this before you export as dxf, then that may solve your problems, but you will generate much larger files.

 

If I was starting again, I think I would learn to use Draftsight for my original drawings, but it is too much of a steep learning curve to change from my present package.

 

hth.

 

Best wishes,

 

Ray

[JCL]

It's pretty interesting. I see the same thing happening with MS Word files and other wordprocessing software such as Open Office. The basic features are covered, sometimes perfectly, sometimes not, and others aren't covered at all. When they finally start to catch up, kaboom, the file format changes. As someone who used to manage software implementations and uphold standards I find all of this quite unnecessary. Unless that is the file format owner thinks that this is a way to keep ahead of the game.

 

All of that said, and feel free to disagree as this is just an opinion, but I think that consumer focused software isn't necessarily tested as well as business focused software.

[MikeOxon]

............ I have the facility to convert curves to vectors within my drawing package, which produces short straight lines (instead of centre point and arcs) and I think if you do this before you export as dxf, then that may solve your problems, but you will generate much larger files.

 

If I was starting again, I think I would learn to use Draftsight for my original drawings, but it is too much of a steep learning curve to change from my present package.

I suspect that your facility to convert curves to vectors is what happens when I use 'explode' in Autosketch.  I can confirm the large files and that it does solve the problem.

 

DraftSight looks quite good but I am reluctant to invest too much effort because it keeps asking the user to renew registration and I wonder how long it will stay around as a free program

[MickRalph]

Hi Mick, those are interesting problems! Did you know that there was also an update to Inkscape as well to  0.48.5 r10040 ? There are also development end of day versions but these are less stable, and frankly I've never worked out how to compile them. Open source is great, but documentation is generally pretty awful.

 

I think that a number of these problems are Inkscape and not Studio. This is shown by the fact that saving a DXF and then reloading it in Inkscape gives you the errors. Have you tried using an online converter like this one http://www.coolutils.com/Online/CAD-Converter/ to convert from SVG to DXF? How does that come out?

Hello Jason, I am on the Inkscape Users mailing list, so I got info about the update to Inkscape - waiting with bated breath for the next version.  I tried the link you suggested for a converter, but there was no output and I couldn't find an alternative suitable free converter.  As you say, I think it is an issue in Inkscape.  Anyway, the problem with the panelling end disappeared when I deleted the line and redrew it, so that issue has been resolved and the rounded corners becoming square is solved by converting the rectangles to paths.  I am now tidying up the colours in the drawing and will be able to do a test cut when I get home on Wednesday (our daughter has now produced our second lovely grandson).

 

I have downloaded your files for the class 114 and will look at these for ideas to use (not that the prototype has any relevance to my 1912 LSWR interests.  I have noted that in your SVG files, the lines are all .282mm wide, whereas I am using .100, as suggested very early in the tutorials.  Does this make any difference?

 

Mick

[JCL]

Hi Mick, first of all, congratulations on becoming a grandad again!

 

More mundanely, the line thickness is more to do with being able to see what you are doing or drawing, the line you cut will only ever be as wide as the blade. The line size is probably different because I didn't set mm as the document measuring unit, which means it was on the default pixel (px), bit of a slap on the wrist for that also, if anyone uses the file, the side is about 2mm short, this is so that I could file a bevel on the ends.

 

If anyone's wondering, I'm doing a Lima class 117 -> 114 conversion.

 

The one thing I do like about the new Studio v3 s that you can determine the order in which the colours are cut, whereas in v2 if you wanted to be sure that some parts would be cut after others you had to do multiple passes and "switch" colours off and on.

 

It'll be really interesting to see what you're producing when you get to that point.

Edited August 24, 2014 by JCL

[brack]

First fo all a big thanks to those who've posted on here - the bridges, coaches and the A-W diesel convinced me to buy myself a portrait. I tried inkscape, but didn't get on with it at all, so have 'resorted' to using Illustrator CS6 (my wife had it from uni).

 

first effort is pretty successful, but I ran into a few troubles. I have read this thread through twice, but don't remember seeing any answers.

 

I'm drawing in illustrator, then exporting to dxf, importing inot studio v3 and then cutting. This process works, but when it imports into studio it makes everything 25.4 times larger in spite of the units in illustrator, illustrator's export dialogue, and studio being set to mm. What si more frustrating is that it won't accept enough decimal places in the 'scale' box in studio to accurately resize it (but I figure 0.01mm out on a 10cm piece isn't too bad ) Anyone found any similar behaviour and managed to fix it?

 

Secondly - does anyone use Illustrator and Silhouette Connect? I figure this might be a way around, but given the state of Studio and its import/scale problems I'm not sure I want to send them $40 for more of their software...

 

anyways - first project:

 

It's an 18" gauge van in 7mm/ft. Forgive the rather messy plasticweld work. I did try using limonene (to protect against warping) but found it hadn't stuck anything together after 20 minutes. I might look into slow setting CA for next time.

[MickRalph]

I'm drawing in illustrator, then exporting to dxf, importing inot studio v3 and then cutting. This process works, but when it imports into studio it makes everything 25.4 times larger in spite of the units in illustrator, illustrator's export dialogue, and studio being set to mm. What si more frustrating is that it won't accept enough decimal places in the 'scale' box in studio to accurately resize it (but I figure 0.01mm out on a 10cm piece isn't too bad ) Anyone found any similar behaviour and managed to fix it?

 

I wonder whether it is the preferences section of Studio which is wrong?  On the edit menu, select "preferences" then open "import options" and check the DXF import section.  I think that the default is "fit to page", which will make the design too big.  I find that I need to use "centered" in order to get the design the same size (this is opening the DXF output from Inkscape - the "as is" option puts the design off the page).  Does this help?

 

Mick

[richbrummitt]

Thanks for spotting that, Anotheran - it may be the root of the problem (although the v2 manual had exactly the same list)  

 

Sometimes things work well enough even though they are not supported. A new version comes along and they work less well. A bit of supposition is that this is because they don't support feature X so it's not on the test list. We've just hit this type of 'failure' with another piece of professional software where the unsupported feature that worked okay but slowly less so over several new releases is about to cause us a huge headache. Personally I think dxf is less of a file format and more of a nightmare (as hinted by Ray), but is something that we have to use regularly. 

[brack]

On the edit menu, select "preferences" then open "import options" and check the DXF import section.  I think that the default is "fit to page", which will make the design too big.  I find that I need to use "centered" in order to get the design the same size (this is opening the DXF output from Inkscape - the "as is" option puts the design off the page). 

Already tried this Mick I'm afraid, to no avail. At least it is a consistent error (25.4 x bigger than it should be) and relatively easy to get around - I usually put a box of known dimensions around my drawing in illustrator (eg 90mm x 90mm) and then use that to resize, then delete the box. I was just hoping there was a way around doing it. I haven't experimented with all the various DXF permutations (versions of autocad) in the illustrator export dialogue, but I have tried every other export or import option I could find.

[Ron Heggs]

The conversion is obviously at fault. It appears to be converting what it thinks are inches to mm. i.e 25.4 mm to 1 inch. Something is definitely going wrong in the translation

 

Ron

[MikeOxon]

It might feel like you're sending information into a black hole, but it might be worth sending your findings to Silhouette America asking it to be forwarded to their software team (or subcontractors). You never know, someone might read it.

 

EDIT - Now resolved in Studio v.3.3.451 (Jan 2015)

 

I followed your suggestion and it worked!  S-A have replied as follows:

 

"Hello Mike,

 

The DXF was using a property called 'bulge' which was missed in V3. This issue will be fixed in our next update (sorry no projected time known).

 

Prior to the DXF fix being released, if you’d like, you could manually select each line segment that should be a curve, and just select curve.

 

As demonstrated in image below:

 

Three segments have already been converted, the fourth is selected and ready to be converted to curve.

 

 

Sorry for any frustration. Best wishes

Silhouette Support Team"

 

I already have various work-arounds but there is hope that all will be well in the next software release - some day!

 

Mike

Edited January 31, 2015 by MikeOxon

[JCL]

Oh-em-gee as they say over here! Good to know. You'd be busy with that coach if you have to convert all of those corners.

[MikeOxon]

Oh-em-gee as they say over here! Good to know. You'd be busy with that coach if you have to convert all of those corners.

Fortunately, I still have Studio2 on my laptop, so I convert to Studio format on that and then open in Studio3 on my desktop

 

Mike

[jonhall]

What effect does speed have on the depth of cut? - my first few experiments did little more than scratch the surface of 20thou plasticard even with the depth of the cutter and thickness set to maximum.

 

Jon

[JCL]

For accuracy I always set the speed to 1, then do an initial score before doing a duplicate run. Although there's a difference of opinion on this, unless I'm cutting .005" styrene, I always set the blade to 10, and then just use the thickness command to vary the pressure. The second swipe at .020" I do at 33. You won't be able to cut through .020" styrene with his cutter I'm afraid, it's score and snap.

 

cheers

 

Jason

[allan downes]

I haven't been following this amazing thread lately but this evening, or to be more precise, the bewitching hour, I stuck my head inside the door and I stand in even more awe than ever at what you gentlemen can achieve and not just with the machine alone - that's easy, it works on electric - but HOW to make it work, electric or not  ( wonder If they make one that runs on steam....)

 

So, still none the wiser than I ever was, please don't stop now as all this hi tech talk, and whether I understand it or not, is a breath of fresh air and a welcome relief to all my ramblings and the GWR in particular !

 

Each and every one of you - a hero to the last man.

 

Cheers.

Allan.

[tender]

Been thinking about one of these for some time so have just ordered a Cameo while it's on offer. Will be back for lots of advice when it arrives.

Looks like i've some catching up to do (30 pages).

 

Ray.

The Cameo arrived and I've just found the time to unpack it. Gone back to page 1 and starting to work through Jason's step by step.

Ray

Edited August 28, 2014 by tender

[brack]

further to my earlier silhouette studio import rescaling issues - I've found that if I export as a R13/95 version .DXF file it scales correctly. So if anyone else has the same trouble exporting DXFsfrom Illustrator and importing them into Studio, the solution is to export to the oldest DXF format you can. Hope that helps someone out there.

 

I've also found plasticweld seesm to be too aggressive a solvent, even on a short van (some suspiscion of bowing the sides after a week). What non-solvent glues have people found to be successful for laminating parts? I intend to try out slow setting superglue and UHU non-solvent, but any other recommendations would be handy (tried Limonene, it didn't really do anything).

 

Also, look for a bulk plastic sheet supplier. If in the North East, Bay Plastics (just by the Tyne Tunnel) do 4' x 2' sheets of 0.25mm or 0.5mm HIPS (ie plasticard) for £1.20 or so each.

[JCL]

Outside of Canada (where you can't buy it) people like Andy G have had success with Limonene. I've done well with Testor's Cement, although I prefer Ambroid, I just can't easily get it.

 

edited: sorry, I didn't catch that you'd tried Limonene.

Edited August 29, 2014 by JCL