Hornby Drummond 700

[Oldddudders]

Could someone confirm the Nine Ems allocation worked local freights to Wimbledon Raynes Park Hampton Court etc? Did they venture towards West Croydon on the Wimbledon to WC Line?

 

 

The Sprat & Winkle line from West Croydon to Wimbledon was generally worked from Norwood Yard with Central locos. Black Motors may have worked the Merrton Abbey branch, leaving that line at Merton Park.

[jjb1970]

The hand rail knob issue really doesn't bother me that much. Clearly it is not correct and it would be better if the model was correct however on a layout I really don't find it to be a distraction. Overall I've found it a nicely finished, sweet running model which captures the look of the prototype well, which (at the risk of being written off as a "that'll do" type) is what I want from a model. That said, those that do find it a big distraction have every right to state their opinion.

 

On making the model, if the holes for the knobs were part of the casting then I can see why they are horizontal however as somebody else has pointed out that does not preclude kinked knobs to compensate for that. If they are drilled then there are two options, either to control the orientation of the piece to be machined or to control the orientation of the drill. Both options add considerably to the cost of machine tools but are not new ideas or technically especially difficult.

[liathach]

I am mulling over purchasing a Bachmann C Class or the Hornby 700 Class.  I bought and returned (or sold on) a few Southern locos lately due to imperfect running.  Bachmann E4…pity no pick-ups on the rear truck (am thinking of returning to that) or the very handy sprung centre driver to ensure electrical continuity.  Hornby M7….faffed about for ages to try and cure the very poor flimsy contacts.  Kernow / Dave Jones o2….great runner but unable to pull a pair of coaches.  So, I like a smooth running loco at slow speed capable of pulling a fair load….how do the C class and the 700 class models compare?

[Dunsignalling]

I am mulling over purchasing a Bachmann C Class or the Hornby 700 Class.  I bought and returned (or sold on) a few Southern locos lately due to imperfect running.  Bachmann E4…pity no pick-ups on the rear truck (am thinking of returning to that) or the very handy sprung centre driver to ensure electrical continuity.  Hornby M7….faffed about for ages to try and cure the very poor flimsy contacts.  Kernow / Dave Jones o2….great runner but unable to pull a pair of coaches.  So, I like a smooth running loco at slow speed capable of pulling a fair load….how do the C class and the 700 class models compare?

Dunno about the C as I don't have one. My 700 handles 20 wagons without any problem on the level. However, my O2 doesn't have any difficulty with 5 coaches and I expect at least one more once it's fully run-in.  

 

Given that you are having electrical pick up issues on pretty much everything, including the E4 which, in my experience is usually pretty good in that respect, it sounds like your track might need looking at before the locos.

 

Bachmann did away with the sprung middle axle some time ago (the C doesn't have one either) and none of their recent locos are quite as good as those with it.

 

John

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

The C class is a good puller. It has to be said of Bachmann that the wheel finish varies from very 'slippy' to 'no problem with traction' out of the box. My C class proved to be a 'no problem' job, but for comparison the slightly heavier MR 3F 0-6-0 was utterly hopeless as received, 15 free running wagons tops. After four hours running it has settled down to the sixty wagons that I expected, gauged by the weight on the coupled wheels. The message there is 'give it time'. The loss of the sprung driven axle on Bachmann is something I also lament: I modify the more recent locos to put some sprung movement in on a driven axle wherever possible.

 

The Hornby J15 is yet smaller than the 700, but pulled very well as received, the motor and mechanism layout of the 700 looks very similar to the J15 which should be a good omen. I do find a consistent problem with Hornby pick ups going draggy after some hours running. Doesn't affect the driven wheels as the motor torque is ample to overcome the friction, but on the tender wheels is a complete thief of traction. Known it near stop some locos.

[TheSignalEngineer]

I've found that a number of my recent locos have come with badly adjusted pickups, to the extent that at least one wheel is always missing them on curves. The other thing I have noticed is that some wheels need cleaning even 'straight out of the box'. I not only clean the treads, but also the inside surface where the pickup makes contact. It's sometimes surprising how much dirt you can get off that face.

[liathach]

The C class is a good puller. It has to be said of Bachmann that the wheel finish varies from very 'slippy' to 'no problem with traction' out of the box. My C class proved to be a 'no problem' job, but for comparison the slightly heavier MR 3F 0-6-0 was utterly hopeless as received, 15 free running wagons tops. After four hours running it has settled down to the sixty wagons that I expected, gauged by the weight on the coupled wheels. The message there is 'give it time'. The loss of the sprung driven axle on Bachmann is something I also lament: I modify the more recent locos to put some sprung movement in on a driven axle wherever possible.

 

The Hornby J15 is yet smaller than the 700, but pulled very well as received, the motor and mechanism layout of the 700 looks very similar to the J15 which should be a good omen. I do find a consistent problem with Hornby pick ups going draggy after some hours running. Doesn't affect the driven wheels as the motor torque is ample to overcome the friction, but on the tender wheels is a complete thief of traction. Known it near stop some locos.

 

Cheers for the information.  

 

I might get another E4 and look at seeing if I can easily get some some movement in an axle, or possibly run contacts to the rear wheels.  On the Hornby locos I have, the contact set ups are flimsier and thus more prone to need attention than the Bachmann locos I have.  Dave Jones appeared to do a great job with the contacts on the O2 though.  Looked very robust.  It just needed more weight balancing out so that the two driving axles had as much possible traction as feasible.

 

I have a few of the Midland 3F and 4Fs.  Excellent runners and the ones I have were great from the box on the traction-side.  Added tender contacts.

[Nile]

If you are after slow running then I reckon the C class is the better of the two. The 700 is nice and smooth, but could do with a higher gear ratio. The best of the current 0-6-0s is the J15, but that's not much use to you.

[SRman]

Funnily enough, I prefer the 700 class running (one model) to the C class (three models), although all are very good. My 700 seems slightly less sensitive to dirty track on my layout, although the differences in running qualities between the two types are marginal, to say the least.

To be honest, I think anyone would be happy with either type ... I know I am happy with both.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I keep looking at the 700, as I was really tempted by the original condition picture posted by Rob in post 108 of this thread, (I really like the pre-group 0-6-0 designs as a type, very 'honest' machines). Anybody tried this, either for the as built LSWR condition, or for one of Drummond's earlier similar classes for the Caley?

[Dunsignalling]

I keep looking at the 700, as I was really tempted by the original condition picture posted by Rob in post 108 of this thread, (I really like the pre-group 0-6-0 designs as a type, very 'honest' machines). Anybody tried this, either for the as built LSWR condition, or for one of Drummond's earlier similar classes for the Caley?

Unfortunately, you'd need to hack a load off the top of the chassis (including the motor) to get it low enough.

 

Ironically, for a conversion project, you might well find it easier to start with a Bachmann C which has proportions much more akin to the 700 as-built.

 

John

[N15class]

Not only that the cab is wrong and the boiler etc is wrong.  Best place to start I would of thought is with a reasonable kit.

[Ben Alder]

I keep looking at the 700, as I was really tempted by the original condition picture posted by Rob in post 108 of this thread, (I really like the pre-group 0-6-0 designs as a type, very 'honest' machines). Anybody tried this, either for the as built LSWR condition, or for one of Drummond's earlier similar classes for the Caley?

 

Here's one turned into a Caley 812 - definitely a visual improvement  to my eyes  

 

[Dunsignalling]

Not only that the cab is wrong and the boiler etc is wrong.  Best place to start I would of thought is with a reasonable kit.

Which currently doesn't seem to exist, at least in 4mm scale.

 

The only kit for the saturated 700 seems to have been produced by DJH but is no longer listed, unless anyone else knows of another. 

 

John

[N15class]

Which currently doesn't seem to exist, at least in 4mm scale.

 

The only kit for the saturated 700 seems to have been produced by DJH but is no longer listed, unless anyone else knows of another. 

 

John

Jidenco used to have one but unless the new owners have done anything with it, it is easier to scratch build one. Did Wills ever do one? mind you that would probably have the wrong wheelbase.

[darren01]

PDK make this one.

[N15class]

PDK make this one.

Do they do one before they we rebuilt?

[darren01]

Do they do one before they we rebuilt?

The  kit will not let you i am afraid .

Edited February 27, 2016 by darren01

[bertiedog]

Apologies for raising the issue again, I admit to not reading all the posts, too ill till recently, but just what was Hornby doing fitting horizontal handrail knobs rather than radial mounted knobs.

 

Have they admitted the mistake publicly, as it does not bode well for future models if they do it again. Why was it not spotted in the long release period during which the knobs could have been corrected.

 

US models often have horizontal knobs, and having a horizontal hole helps the mould pattern maker to get a clean release in the process.

But after getting the holes this way, why did Hornby fail to fit cranked based knobs to conform to the prototype and UK practices.

 

Have they offered replacement hand rail knobs, and correctly formed handrails to customers?

 

I am just about to buy a couple of these locos in the new lined black Southern livery, and now have a nuisance job to correct their blunders. I will leave it to see if it is noticeable, as any work risks marring the fine finish they get these days.

 

Stephen

[phil-b259]

Apologies for raising the issue again, I admit to not reading all the posts, too ill till recently, but just what was Hornby doing fitting horizontal handrail knobs rather than radial mounted knobs.

 

Have they admitted the mistake publicly, as it does not bode well for future models if they do it again. Why was it not spotted in the long release period during which the knobs could have been corrected.

 

US models often have horizontal knobs, and having a horizontal hole helps the mould pattern maker to get a clean release in the process.

But after getting the holes this way, why did Hornby fail to fit cranked based knobs to conform to the prototype and UK practices.

 

Have they offered replacement hand rail knobs, and correctly formed handrails to customers?

 

I am just about to buy a couple of these locos in the new lined black Southern livery, and now have a nuisance job to correct their blunders. I will leave it to see if it is noticeable, as any work risks marring the fine finish they get these days.

 

Stephen

Its not a 'blunder' - any more than the lack of daylight under the boiler on the radial tank from Oxford or the motor block come firebox on Bachmanns C class extending too far forward. They are all design decisions taken for specific reasons - which people are naturally free to agree with by purchasing or not doing so if they feel it is something that the cannot live with.

 

As such Horby have not apologised nor will they be doing anything about it.

[bertiedog]

It seems the Bachmann C has the right handrail knobs fitted, and that is the issue, it is going to show by comparison, minor but there all the same. It is not the details of the mistake, it is the fact they have got it wrong, and have not corrected it, which is easy to do by issuing new cranked over knob mouldings.

 

Let this slip by, and what next? It is the principle not the details of the mistake, they must have noticed it, and dismissed it as unimportant, then going ahead and selling something wrong that they knew was wrong.

 

Or they simply did not spot it, which is just as bad. After all the whole design process is Cad these days, are they not capable of checking the design. I deeply suspect they did, and did not bother to correct it.

 

Stephen

[bertiedog]

Its not a 'blunder' - any more than the lack of daylight under the boiler on the radial tank from Oxford or the motor block come firebox on Bachmanns C class extending too far forward. They are all design decisions taken for specific reasons - which people are naturally free to agree with by purchasing or not doing so if they feel it is something that the cannot live with.

 

As such Horby have not apologised nor will they be doing anything about it.

Perhaps the lack of action is to be expected considering the plight they are in.

[melmerby]

Its not a 'blunder' - any more than the lack of daylight under the boiler on the radial tank from Oxford or the motor block come firebox on Bachmanns C class extending too far forward. They are all design decisions taken for specific reasons - which people are naturally free to agree with by purchasing or not doing so if they feel it is something that the cannot live with.

 

As such Horby have not apologised nor will they be doing anything about it.

And as the "error" cannot be seen at normal viewing distance I doubt whether too many people are actually that concerned about it on which is (in the current pricing world) a keenly priced, well performing model.

 

Keith

[melmerby]

It seems the Bachmann C has the right handrail knobs fitted, and that is the issue, it is going to show by comparison, minor but there all the same. It is not the details of the mistake, it is the fact they have got it wrong, and have not corrected it, which is easy to do by issuing new cranked over knob mouldings.

 

Let this slip by, and what next? It is the principle not the details of the mistake, they must have noticed it, and dismissed it as unimportant, then going ahead and selling something wrong that they knew was wrong.

 

Or they simply did not spot it, which is just as bad. After all the whole design process is Cad these days, are they not capable of checking the design. I deeply suspect they did, and did not bother to correct it.

 

Stephen

Please show me the other RTR models with cranked handrail knobs in horizontal holes.

 

Cheers

 

Keith

 

EDIT you do not seem to appreciate that this was not a "mistake" but a design decision probably for manufacturing ease.

As yet I have not seen a 100% accurate RTR 00 gauge loco of any description - it cannot be done.

Edited April 27, 2016 by melmerby

[TheSignalEngineer]

All modelling in small scales is a compromise due to materials and manufacturing techniques available. I am not going to worry about the handrail knobs which i can't see the difference at operating distance when I am running on 4'1.5" gauge track with thick wheels.