Hornby D16/3

[Ian Hargrave]

This one ?

 

https://railsofsheffield.com/search/search-results.aspx?searchTerm=claud+hamilton

 

 

I have seen a lot lot worse , Pump lining is  poor and Vacumn return pipe with a slight sag.

 

I'm sure you have but with prices on the ascent,it's only right to highlight unacceptable finish.If I have to be prepared to pay the asking

..whatever that is now or in the future...I and others surely have a right to demand the business for a full whack and reject what is thrown at us ? There is much discussion on this forum and much rending of sackcloth and ashes over the doom scenario of Hornby's future and what its consequences will be.OK....fair enough.Pay more...expect better,thank you.Taking the eyes off the qc ball is the easy bit and takes little effort.Might be a good idea if Hornby PR took it upon themselves to promise improved quality for the expected imminent price hikes.Now that's quite another story isn't it ? Yes I am grateful for what I'm getting but there ARE limits.

[Bernard Lamb]

I'm sure you have but with prices on the ascent,it's only right to highlight unacceptable finish.If I have to be prepared to pay the asking

..whatever that is now or in the future...I and others surely have a right to demand the business for a full whack and reject what is thrown at us ? There is much discussion on this forum and much rending of sackcloth and ashes over the doom scenario of Hornby's future and what its consequences will be.OK....fair enough.Pay more...expect better,thank you.Taking the eyes off the qc ball is the easy bit and takes little effort.Might be a good idea if Hornby PR took it upon themselves to promise improved quality for the expected imminent price hikes.Now that's quite another story isn't it ? Yes I am grateful for what I'm getting but there ARE limits.

Pay more for a lower quality.

Pay even more for the same quality.

Pay a lot more for improved quality.

There are limits, but I do not think that we are within sight of them yet.

The problem that Hornby and many other companies have, is the uncertainty in the short to medium term.

Do you aim at the top end or the bottom end and make your product to suit the target market, or do you keep on trying to be all things to all men?

I think Hornby got it wrong with Railroad. They seem to be trying to sell a lower level product using the Hornby name. Why not call it Triang or some thing and then people will know the difference and not have unrealistic expectations either way. You do not sell a cheapo product and call it Rolls Royce or Aston Martin. Not if you have a name with a reputation to maintain.

There are groups that are not affected by the current economic situation. Hornby need to find a way to exploit these punters. The problem is that so do many other companies and some of them are better at it than Hornby.  

Before the usual moaners start.

Take a look at cycling "the new golf". £8k ish for a good bike and another grand for clothing. A market of several thousand punters all willing to upgrade on a regular basis. There is even more money to be made in laying on events for them.

With model railways we even get people moaning about a ticket to an exhibition costing less than £10 as being too expensive.

Take a look in a London restaurant. £70 ish for lunch and over £100 for dinner and you cannot get a table for several weeks.

If I had money to invest or was looking for a job I know where I would be heading and it would not involve model trains.

Bernard

[No Decorum]

Paying more for lower quality is not, I think, a good idea. I for one would feel that I was being hit twice.

 

Paying more for the same quality seems to be inevitable. It is perfectly understandable to say that, if we pay considerably more for a model, we expect better quality. However, we have to pay more because the model costs more to make.* If we demand better quality, the cost will be even higher. Perhaps just a little better quality control would enhance a company’s reputation at moderate cost.

 

There is a third way; one that has been taken by some companies. I come from a time when models were of prototypes which were either small and cute or large and imposing. In between those extremes, there was a shortage of the workaday 0-6-0s, which predominated almost until the end of steam. To my delight, relatively cheap black 0-6-0s with no outside motion are now appearing in great variety.

 

* That is a generalisation. For example, the cost of servicing a company’s debt has to be recovered by charging more for models.

[micklner]

I'm sure you have but with prices on the ascent,it's only right to highlight unacceptable finish.If I have to be prepared to pay the asking

..whatever that is now or in the future...I and others surely have a right to demand the business for a full whack and reject what is thrown at us ? There is much discussion on this forum and much rending of sackcloth and ashes over the doom scenario of Hornby's future and what its consequences will be.OK....fair enough.Pay more...expect better,thank you.Taking the eyes off the qc ball is the easy bit and takes little effort.Might be a good idea if Hornby PR took it upon themselves to promise improved quality for the expected imminent price hikes.Now that's quite another story isn't it ? Yes I am grateful for what I'm getting but there ARE limits.

 

£106.50 compared to:-

 

The recent J94 (LNER Version) with far more faults at £95.50 . 

 

Heljan O2 at £185 ish which isn't even painted properly .

 

To me its a bargain price . Two minutes to reline the Pump with some decals and  the Vac pipe probably just need a tweak. It also works without any problem on any control system.

Edited October 5, 2016 by micklner

[HOTTODDY]

I have had mine for a couple of days and it runbs perfectly, quiet and smooth, hauls six coaches without any problem.  Visually it is a superb model, the lining in sharp & crisp and even the glass windshields behind the front window are fitted.  The most obvious visual problem is the frequent Hornby problem of the loco number on the cab and the "LNER" on the tender not lining up. In all the photographs I have seen these are at the same level although prersumably there would have been some difference between a full and an enmpty tender (similar problem with the three lines on the SR MN & WC tenders).  Are the loco and tender made separately and not checked before they are put in the box in China?

This alignment issue of tender and cab letters/numbers seems to have started with the "Sandringham" B17 a few years ago. After two replacements from a supplier returned and one from Hornby direct, I finally gave up and renamed it "Audley End" and renumbered it, all in a line!!! The black LNER D16 had the same issue, so it does suggest that the locos and tenders are not made and finished together and/or QC don't know what is correct or even care. It is extremely annoying that something so simple is being repeated time and time again. The debacle of the J15 and "700" handrail knobs is another example of either lack of knowledge in their subject and not reading the drawing properly, The A3 ski jump, well, I ask you? Thankfully my A1 " Flying Fox" was made 10 years ago, no alignment, running or footplate issues!

I'm so grateful to folk on this and other sites, you save me soooo much money and I'm sure many others take heed of the comments too. What a pity Hornby don't. Do they even care? Doesn't seem like it. They need to see what a small company does to rectify a fault quickly. Oxford's Radial chassis, unpainted handrails, both resolved on the second model. They looked and listened to their customers  Come on Hornby, you can do it right if you try a lot harder.

 

Tod

[Ian Hargrave]

£106.50 compared to:-

 

The recent J94 (LNER Version) with far more faults at £95.50 . 

 

Heljan O2 at £185 ish which isn't even painted properly .

 

To me its a bargain price . Two minutes to reline the Pump with some decals and  the Vac pipe probably just need a tweak. It also works without any problem on any control system.

Which J94 are you talking about.and which version..DJM or Hornby ? If it's the coreless motor then of course it might have issues with feedback control.The DJM has a variety of pricing from £82 to £99. The Tango should cost nowhere near full rrp.(and neither does your quote on the D16/3) My second cost £105 new and the first £148 .Neither has paint or performance issues.You cannot really compare the models involved and nor should you.

I am simply making the point that to display a model with obvious faults is not acceptable and that applies across the board.If we don't complain of poor finish then that's what we'll go on receiving.Maybe it's Rails imaging work that's to blame ?

[micklner]

Which J94 are you talking about.and which version..DJM or Hornby ? If it's the coreless motor then of course it might have issues with feedback control.The DJM has a variety of pricing from £82 to £99. The Tango should cost nowhere near full rrp.(and neither does your quote on the D16/3) My second cost £105 new and the first £148 .Neither has paint or performance issues.You cannot really compare the models involved and nor should you.

I am simply making the point that to display a model with obvious faults is not acceptable and that applies across the board.If we don't complain of poor finish then that's what we'll go on receiving.Maybe it's Rails imaging work that's to blame ?

 

The DJM version is quoted .

 

You took upon yourself to say the Hornby Loco wasn't good value and the ones I have quoted are current recent releases of a similar price so why cant they be compared.

 

Looks at the Rails listing they are selling the D16 at £106.50 .

 

DJM want £95 as quoted for the J94 a plain Black Loco. 

 

Hattons want £148 as you quoted , even then over £40 more for a plain Black Loco with four more drivers . A number of people have stated the finish looks plastiky that and running qualities and has been criticised as such.

 

Even more similar if needed is the Bachmann D11 Marne at £146.95 .

 

The simple solution as always is 1. Don't buy it. 2. Send it back or 3. do some modelling.

[Ian Hargrave]

The DJM version is quoted .

 

You took upon yourself to say the Hornby Loco wasn't good value and the ones I have quoted are current recent releases of a similar price so why cant they be compared.

 

Looks at the Rails listing they are selling the D16 at £106.50 .

 

DJM want £95 as quoted for the J94 a plain Black Loco. 

 

Hattons want £148 as you quoted , even then over £40 more for a plain Black Loco with four more drivers . A number of people have stated the finish looks plastiky that and running qualities and has been criticised as

 

Even more similar if needed is the Bachmann D11 Marne at £146.95 .

 

The simple solution as always is 1. Don't buy it. 2. Send it back or 3. do some modelling.[/quo

 

When I require either advice or instruction from anyone....which includes you.....rest assured I will ask for it. Until then ,you may sleep in peace. I have not taken it upon myself to state that D16 is not good value which you just might see if you read carefully. If someone happens to hold views which you don't like,please accept them with good grace.That is surely the point of this forum,is it not?

[micklner]

Forums are for discussion simple !!

[Ian Hargrave]

Forums are for discussion simple !!

Well that's good.At least we agree on that.

[dandrews2000]

Well well Hornby 4 Hornby locos brought and 4 Hornby locos with problems.

 

1) Hornby 08 with sound replaced by Hornby and replacement still lurches. (XMAS PRESENT)

 

2) Hornby caerphilly castle blew decoder upon installation as tender wired wrong (shop refund) (BIRTHDAY PRESENT)

 

3) NRM LSWR M7 body weights glued as opposed to screwed in, pipes from chasis glued to body so had to break to gain access to chip. Oh and noisy motor, would have have got a refund as not fit for purpose had i not had it sitting in a display cabinet for 14 months.

(XMAS PRESENT)

 

4) And finally D16/3 Claud Hamilton which runs fine on dc but is an absolute dog on dcc. Have tried esu lokpilot, gaugemaster dcc26 x 2 and Hornby's own decoder to no avail (BIRTHDAY PRESENT) Refund or replacement?

[DougN]

Dandrews, that is no good of 4 from 4 failures! My Q6 didn't quite fail but it was close. Not a DOA (dead on arrival) but I found the R1 resister on the plug base was hot to the touch after the Zimo sound chip started doing strange things. The solution was to remove the surface mounted resister and replace with a piece of wire. It worked wonderfully. 

 

If you can give us more of a run down on the problem on the D16 we may be able to provide a solution. My guess is it is the resister again as the chips are having their incoming signal scrambled by the faulty electrical component. 

 

To see if the R1 resister is the culprit pop off the tender body, run for a minute or 2 and feel with a finger.. if you can tell it is warm... it could be the problem.  I unsoldered the resister with an iron and basically bridged the 2 solder pads. There are other components on the board I think 1 may be a C1 and I would guess it is a capacitor. 

[mullie]

Well well Hornby 4 Hornby locos brought and 4 Hornby locos with problems.

 

1) Hornby 08 with sound replaced by Hornby and replacement still lurches. (XMAS PRESENT)

 

2) Hornby caerphilly castle blew decoder upon installation as tender wired wrong (shop refund) (BIRTHDAY PRESENT)

 

3) NRM LSWR M7 body weights glued as opposed to screwed in, pipes from chasis glued to body so had to break to gain access to chip. Oh and noisy motor, would have have got a refund as not fit for purpose had i not had it sitting in a display cabinet for 14 months.

(XMAS PRESENT)

 

4) And finally D16/3 Claud Hamilton which runs fine on dc but is an absolute dog on dcc. Have tried esu lokpilot, gaugemaster dcc26 x 2 and Hornby's own decoder to no avail (BIRTHDAY PRESENT) Refund or replacement?

 

My D16 had to be sent back for similar reasons, turned out to be loose solder joint on the wiring to the DCC plug.

[dandrews2000]

Dandrews, that is no good of 4 from 4 failures! My Q6 didn't quite fail but it was close. Not a DOA (dead on arrival) but I found the R1 resister on the plug base was hot to the touch after the Zimo sound chip started doing strange things. The solution was to remove the surface mounted resister and replace with a piece of wire. It worked wonderfully. 

 

If you can give us more of a run down on the problem on the D16 we may be able to provide a solution. My guess is it is the resister again as the chips are having their incoming signal scrambled by the faulty electrical component. 

 

To see if the R1 resister is the culprit pop off the tender body, run for a minute or 2 and feel with a finger.. if you can tell it is warm... it could be the problem.  I unsoldered the resister with an iron and basically bridged the 2 solder pads. There are other components on the board I think 1 may be a C1 and I would guess it is a capacitor. 

I think might it be the capacitor as you suspect. Whilst testing various decoders I changed various settings to see if I could acheive smooth and consistant running. The only setting that made a difference across the board was turning off BEMF. While turning off BEMF resulted in a very smooth speed curve once the loco was moving, the initial start required more movement on the controller resulting in the loco sprinting off before I could reduce speed steps. No amount of CV 2 setting changed this. Have contacted the retailer who have asked me to send the loco back and they will send a replacement tested on both DC & DCC. 

 

Regards

[dandrews2000]

Good afternoon all

 

Well my d16/3 woes continue. After receiving a replacement loco i thought all would be sorted however the new loco exhibits the same strange traits as the previous medel but to a lesser degree. Having not been able to fully test the new loco on dcc until i was off over christmas im slighlty bemused as to what is wrong with this new loco. Having run in on dc the loco again was smooth and quiet so all good there. But again on installing a dcc chip the same problems arose as on the previous loco namely very jerky running even so far as kangarooing. I wipped out the chip and this time snipped the cappacitors out resoldered the wires and re-chipped, but alas no improvement. As before the only setting thats makes a difference is turning off bemf! Having received another 2 new locos for christmas one with a 3 pole also from Hornby none of tje other locos have shown these issue. Ive tried esu, tcs and Hornby own decoder.

[Black Marlin]

Good news! I have just been given 8900 Claud Hamilton as a birthday present. I have run it and I am delighted with it. This means that, since I now know I don't need to return it to anyone, I can get on with detailing it.

 

Which brings me to my question. I have an LNER 8-coach corridor express; 2 rakes of LNER Gresley non-vestibuled stock; and a short LNER parcels train. Which of these rakes is most suitable to hang off the back of my D16? I ask because I am trying to determine the most appropriate lamp headcode...

Any suggestions gratefully received!

Gavin

[dandrews2000]

Happy New Year to all

 

I'm glad to say my D16 woes are finally over. Loco was returned to place of purchase for a second time with a letter explaining the issue and dcc chip installed. Received a call from shop saying they had tested another loco and this also exhibited the same behaviour and therefore is a charachteritsic of this loco?? 

Now while off over christmas I had been trawling the forums to see if this was a common problem, could find no further evidence of this being the case. Now this did start me to think did the shop really exchange the first one for a different model?  As both models exhibit the same problem! I started to look into alternative motors as I was convinced this was a motor problem, After trawling various forums and also seeing images of both the D16 motor and the Hornby K1 motor i came to the conclusion they looked about the same. Now I hear you ask why the K1? well the D16 has space for a flywheel and the K1 motor comes with a flywheel fitted, BUT most importantly the K1 motor is a third of the price of the D16 motor?? Received my D16 back today and proceeded to fit the new motor, and I am pleased to report this motor fits perfectly and the loco runs superbly both on DC and DCC, no stuttering or kangarooing. Below are some images to show clearances and if you go onto Hornby's own youtube site the pre-production D16 is shown with a flywheel fitted this was removed for production (cost cutting) I know the benefits of a flywheel on dcc are not as great as dc but I thought this info might be of help for anyone looking to replace a worn or duff motor, maybe search K1 motor first (The motors were both price compared from the same part supplier!)

 

Happy modelling Folks

 

 

 

[DougN]

From the above i think the QA on the motors that Hornby are using has a high failure rate or their manufacturing tolerances are starting to wear. My Q6 which is the black can motor similar to the P2 Britannia and others. Had major issues as it was getting too hot. Now it has worn in over time.

 

It Hornby are reading this I think they may have discuss the problem with the supplier.

 

As Dandrews said above he had to go to the retailer first as Hornby don't want to know direct. I have a major issue with this as the retailer is only selling a box where the manufacturing is totally out of their control! I feel sorry for the retailer as it costs them to investigate and I would hate to think Hornby would leave the retailer high and dry and out of pocket when the warranty items are returned.

[dandrews2000]

I do agree about the quality of these motors, very cheap to say the least. Having inspected both motors side by side I still cannot fathom why the K1 is under £6 whilst the D16 motor is above £15. For a start the k1 motor has and extra lump of brass yet is cheaper? From one of the photos you can also see a Railroad Hall with similar motor yet smooth as silk and also 64xx with another 3 pole motor again smooth as silk. But I will add the 64xx motor feels of better quality in build and feel. The 3 pole vs 5 pole debate is well covered elsewhere and some of my other locos do indeed have 5 pole motors fitted yet no noticable difference in performance on dcc. But I do think the general build quality of Hornby's new 3 pole is like something you would have found in a early 80's market stall battery powered trainset, and certainly no where near the quality seen in the past ie Black cans. Whilst I do appreciate trying to keep costs down and also installing cheaper motors in Railroad products, i still feel the main range should have a quality motor. I actually did expect my D16 to have a similar motor to my J15, so i was more than suprised when opening her up to find a cheaper alternative seeing as they both cost near enough the same.

[John Tomlinson]

I do agree about the quality of these motors, very cheap to say the least. Having inspected both motors side by side I still cannot fathom why the K1 is under £6 whilst the D16 motor is above £15. For a start the k1 motor has and extra lump of brass yet is cheaper? From one of the photos you can also see a Railroad Hall with similar motor yet smooth as silk and also 64xx with another 3 pole motor again smooth as silk. But I will add the 64xx motor feels of better quality in build and feel. The 3 pole vs 5 pole debate is well covered elsewhere and some of my other locos do indeed have 5 pole motors fitted yet no noticable difference in performance on dcc. But I do think the general build quality of Hornby's new 3 pole is like something you would have found in a early 80's market stall battery powered trainset, and certainly no where near the quality seen in the past ie Black cans. Whilst I do appreciate trying to keep costs down and also installing cheaper motors in Railroad products, i still feel the main range should have a quality motor. I actually did expect my D16 to have a similar motor to my J15, so i was more than suprised when opening her up to find a cheaper alternative seeing as they both cost near enough the same.

This is very useful.

 

I bought a D16 when they came out (I am on analogue not DCC). It ran quite smoothly without the classic 9 and 12o'clock binding, but the slow running was poor, with stalling at what I'd regard as a reasonable slow speed, a bit like the Railroad P2. Some while later I bought another (different variant) in the famous Hattons sale, and the slow running on this is exemplary. Possibly the difference is due to variations in motor quality, and If I can find another to purchase and try as a spare I shall do so.

 

John.

[John Tomlinson]

I finally started messing ablut with my two examples yesterday.

 

My weathered example, as others have found, is without its nearside injector pipework under the cab, nor is it floating around in the box. I wonder if anyone has managed to obtain spares, or do we either have to ignore the omission or knock something up out of wire?

 

Many thanks,

 

John.

[31A]

20170120_154435.jpg20170120_155222.jpg20170120_155821.jpgHappy New Year to all

 

I'm glad to say my D16 woes are finally over. Loco was returned to place of purchase for a second time with a letter explaining the issue and dcc chip installed. Received a call from shop saying they had tested another loco and this also exhibited the same behaviour and therefore is a charachteritsic of this loco?? 

Now while off over christmas I had been trawling the forums to see if this was a common problem, could find no further evidence of this being the case. Now this did start me to think did the shop really exchange the first one for a different model?  As both models exhibit the same problem! I started to look into alternative motors as I was convinced this was a motor problem, After trawling various forums and also seeing images of both the D16 motor and the Hornby K1 motor i came to the conclusion they looked about the same. Now I hear you ask why the K1? well the D16 has space for a flywheel and the K1 motor comes with a flywheel fitted, BUT most importantly the K1 motor is a third of the price of the D16 motor?? Received my D16 back today and proceeded to fit the new motor, and I am pleased to report this motor fits perfectly and the loco runs superbly both on DC and DCC, no stuttering or kangarooing. Below are some images to show clearances and if you go onto Hornby's own youtube site the pre-production D16 is shown with a flywheel fitted this was removed for production (cost cutting) I know the benefits of a flywheel on dcc are not as great as dc but I thought this info might be of help for anyone looking to replace a worn or duff motor, maybe search K1 motor first (The motors were both price compared from the same part supplier!)

 

Happy modelling Folks

 

 

I do agree about the quality of these motors, very cheap to say the least. Having inspected both motors side by side I still cannot fathom why the K1 is under £6 whilst the D16 motor is above £15. For a start the k1 motor has and extra lump of brass yet is cheaper? From one of the photos you can also see a Railroad Hall with similar motor yet smooth as silk and also 64xx with another 3 pole motor again smooth as silk. But I will add the 64xx motor feels of better quality in build and feel. The 3 pole vs 5 pole debate is well covered elsewhere and some of my other locos do indeed have 5 pole motors fitted yet no noticable difference in performance on dcc. But I do think the general build quality of Hornby's new 3 pole is like something you would have found in a early 80's market stall battery powered trainset, and certainly no where near the quality seen in the past ie Black cans. Whilst I do appreciate trying to keep costs down and also installing cheaper motors in Railroad products, i still feel the main range should have a quality motor. I actually did expect my D16 to have a similar motor to my J15, so i was more than suprised when opening her up to find a cheaper alternative seeing as they both cost near enough the same.

 

 

I'd just like to say thank you for suggesting that the K1 motor is a good replacement for the motor supplied with the D16!

 

I've just swapped the motors in both my D16s for K1 motors; the swap took a matter of minutes.  Whilst they were both good runners already, the improvement was very noticeable, particularly in terms of starting / stopping and smooth running at slow speeds.

 

My models run on old fashioned 'straight' DC control.  I'm not clear whether the only difference is that the K1 motor has a flywheel, or whether the motors themselves are also different, but anyway it was well worth doing.

 

I bought the motors from Peter's Spares; according to their web site they have three in stock at the moment.

[toboldlygo]

I'd just like to say thank you for suggesting that the K1 motor is a good replacement for the motor supplied with the D16!

 

I've just swapped the motors in both my D16s for K1 motors; the swap took a matter of minutes.  Whilst they were both good runners already, the improvement was very noticeable, particularly in terms of starting / stopping and smooth running at slow speeds.

 

My models run on old fashioned 'straight' DC control.  I'm not clear whether the only difference is that the K1 motor has a flywheel, or whether the motors themselves are also different, but anyway it was well worth doing.

 

I bought the motors from Peter's Spares; according to their web site they have three in stock at the moment.

 

2 now

[Market65]

Hi. I've a couple of D16/3's, and one runs worse than the other, so I've just bought one of those two motors off Peter's Spares. It, hopefully, will help the bad one of the duo. I'm due to receive it by Wednesday.

 

Regards,

 

Rob.

[JSpencer]

From the above i think the QA on the motors that Hornby are using has a high failure rate or their manufacturing tolerances are starting to wear. My Q6 which is the black can motor similar to the P2 Britannia and others. Had major issues as it was getting too hot. Now it has worn in over time.

.

The P2 uses a cheap off the shelf 3 pole motor found in most toys. This is silver in colour. The Britannia uses a purposely designed expensive 5 pole skew wound motor, this is black in colour. Neither is in the D16. Cannot comment on the Q6.